Author Topic: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE  (Read 2953 times)

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« on: March 14, 2017, 06:16:08 PM »
As a business owner who likes going to work and has built a great culture I don't ever plan on FIRE but instead shifting from 4.5 days per week to 2 when I am financially independent.  I love what I have created and it keeps we motivated intellectually. I assume we here in this forum will have some different ideas than the rest of MMM.  What do you think are the differences between entrepreneur MMM's and the rest???

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1504
  • Age: 185
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 06:27:21 PM »
I don't see any difference at all. One of the through going themes here is to have financial freedom to do what you like. Many people on the forums want to keep working doing what they enjoy after they have the resources to FIRE. In many ways, your reduction to 2 days is just RE-light. I would say congratulations on having a life you enjoy right now, and having built a work situation that is satisfying.

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 06:46:19 PM »
Didn't mean major differences. We are all here and post because of the major lessons on MMM. I guess I see how many people really despise their employment in the corporate  world and I wonder if there is more job satisfaction with entrepreneurs who are perhaps diffierent as the typical entrepreneur as they are on this site.  I guess with me I take extreme pride in what I have made and can't relate to hating my job.  When I started I did many things wrong but once I understand how to change the culture of my office this changed dramatically. It took me about 4 years of doing it wrong then slow change over 2 years and bliss for the past 2 years

bigfoot11

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 08:09:17 PM »
When I started I did many things wrong but once I understand how to change the culture of my office this changed dramatically. It took me about 4 years of doing it wrong then slow change over 2 years and bliss for the past 2 years

If everyone had this mindset a lot more people would be FI. The way I see it, as long as you are satisfied doing whatever it is you do and are only working 2 days a week you're winning.

Mezzie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
    • Mezzie Learns
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 07:30:37 AM »
I'm considering going part-time once I reach the point I can retire. The only downside I see is that I get my full medical benefits upon retiring, but zero upon going part-time, so it will all depend on if our country can figure out our healthcare in time for that. If not, I'll just volunteer a few days a week at my work.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/preparing-for-forced-early-retirement-due-to-disability/

Join my ibotta team for rebates: https://ibotta.com/r/bdtnbyj

Join my Shopkick team so we can start a Vespa gang (or you can get more practical gift cards...if you think those are better than a Vespa for some reason): https://app.shopkick.com/r/3eNYBE

SeattleCPA

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Redmond, WA
    • Evergreen Small Business
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 08:23:19 AM »
Didn't mean major differences. We are all here and post because of the major lessons on MMM. I guess I see how many people really despise their employment in the corporate  world and I wonder if there is more job satisfaction with entrepreneurs who are perhaps diffierent as the typical entrepreneur as they are on this site.  I guess with me I take extreme pride in what I have made and can't relate to hating my job.  When I started I did many things wrong but once I understand how to change the culture of my office this changed dramatically. It took me about 4 years of doing it wrong then slow change over 2 years and bliss for the past 2 years

Doc, I think you're right here. I mean, about how (first) running your own show can be something enriching and satisfying enough that you don't actually want to give it up... that (second) some MMMers hate their jobs and so FI is partly about leaving a bad place and partly about moving to a good place.

FWIW, I really like my current seat on the bus and don't feel any great push to quit. I like the people. I like the activity. I like the intellectual stimulation.

My blog Evergreen Small Business
My free downloadable ebook: Thirteen Word Retirement Plan

bwall

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 09:37:59 AM »
This is something I've struggled with a lot. Right now, I'm FI, but not RE, for a couple of reasons:

1) The work is easy; not demanding, no office politics, not the 'drudgery' I was taught it would be as a child.
2) I'm my own boss. OK, my customers are my boss, but they're easy to work with.
3) The money is fantastic.
4) How else would I spend my day(s)?
5) I love the thrill of closing a deal/sales.
6) I pretty much do what I want now anyways.

To elaborate on #4: When I was in my 20's, I spent a year and a half traveling the world on a shoestring budget. Hitchhiking across southern Africa, seeing the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe. It was a blast and it changed my life for the better in many, many ways. One thing I learned was that, believe it or not, there comes a time where you don't want to see another amazing Roman ruin, spend the night in a cool castle, enjoy the best views of the city, climb a mountain, see more elephants/gazelles/giraffes/crocodiles/hippos (etc.) or spend (another *f'n*) day at the beach. .. ... because there's no point to it. It took me 18 months to reach this point in my exuberant 20's. Now I might reach that point sooner.


Stasher

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1545
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Cowichan Valley, Vancouver Island
  • Power through Positivity
    • Mindful Explorer
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 09:49:19 AM »
I have worked at my "career" for 21 years as of this Spring and just negotiated my transition to FI as I prefer that term , I wont be retiring technically. My paying attention to MMM and the principles this community is built on has allowed me to leave my job and focus on making some fun income off writing and photography.

Parallel to my career I have helped my wife create our successful retail business over the past 15 years and entrepreneurship is something we both love. MMM has now allowed me to have the FI to stop working and support her. She loves the stores and has expressed she has no plans to sell or close anytime soon. She of course can come and go as she pleases working as much as she wants, we of course know that we then need to pay staff more and put less in our pockets.

I plan to now help her grow the business more and share the work load to make life easier for here.

To sum it up, sure I could retire but what fun is that. I am now FI to choose when and where and also how hard and how long I work. This is what I wanted from this site.
The Mindful Explorer : Explore-Adventure-Photograph https://www.ChrisIstace.com


MMM Forums Journal - Beyond The Usual

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 06:11:11 PM »
Mezzie,   

A good way to provide health insurance if you RE would be to use a Christian Heath Care organization.....I was looking into one called Liberty.  It is for healthy people and is a disaster relief insurance (ie don't go to the doctor but if I have a need for chemo / surgery, I have coverage).  Obviously you have to be a Christian.  Not sure if other religions have something similar.   FYI this bypasses any prior/current federal fines for not having health insurance.  I would only recommend it to health folks but worth a look. 

CargoBiker

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • Urban Tribe Cargo Bicycles
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 09:25:38 PM »
A good way to provide health insurance if you RE would be to use a Christian Heath Care organization

I signed up for medi-share after hearing their radio ads for a year.

It's cheaper than any other option for health insurance that I've found.
Owner - Urban Tribe Cargo Bicycles

🚲 The Bike for Urban Families 🚲

Kids in Front | Wooden Cargo Box with 2 Benches | Electric Assist Motor | 3 Wheels

Rediscover Your City Join the Tribe

www.urbantribecargobicycles.com

SeattleCPA

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Redmond, WA
    • Evergreen Small Business
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 07:07:08 AM »
This is something I've struggled with a lot. Right now, I'm FI, but not RE, for a couple of reasons:

1) The work is easy; not demanding, no office politics, not the 'drudgery' I was taught it would be as a child.
2) I'm my own boss. OK, my customers are my boss, but they're easy to work with.
3) The money is fantastic.
4) How else would I spend my day(s)?
5) I love the thrill of closing a deal/sales.
6) I pretty much do what I want now anyways.

To elaborate on #4: When I was in my 20's, I spent a year and a half traveling the world on a shoestring budget. Hitchhiking across southern Africa, seeing the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe. It was a blast and it changed my life for the better in many, many ways. One thing I learned was that, believe it or not, there comes a time where you don't want to see another amazing Roman ruin, spend the night in a cool castle, enjoy the best views of the city, climb a mountain, see more elephants/gazelles/giraffes/crocodiles/hippos (etc.) or spend (another *f'n*) day at the beach. .. ... because there's no point to it. It took me 18 months to reach this point in my exuberant 20's. Now I might reach that point sooner.

+1
My blog Evergreen Small Business
My free downloadable ebook: Thirteen Word Retirement Plan

iowajes

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • Location: United States
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 07:17:51 AM »
As a business owner who likes going to work and has built a great culture I don't ever plan on FIRE but instead shifting from 4.5 days per week to 2 when I am financially independent.  I love what I have created and it keeps we motivated intellectually. I assume we here in this forum will have some different ideas than the rest of MMM.  What do you think are the differences between entrepreneur MMM's and the rest???

There are lots of people on this site, not just business owners, who want to reach financial independence, but don't necessarily care about the retire early part of the equation. (At least not excessively early.)

Genevieve

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 478
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 07:55:34 AM »
This is something I've struggled with a lot. Right now, I'm FI, but not RE, for a couple of reasons:

1) The work is easy; not demanding, no office politics, not the 'drudgery' I was taught it would be as a child.
2) I'm my own boss. OK, my customers are my boss, but they're easy to work with.
3) The money is fantastic.
4) How else would I spend my day(s)?
5) I love the thrill of closing a deal/sales.
6) I pretty much do what I want now anyways.

To elaborate on #4: When I was in my 20's, I spent a year and a half traveling the world on a shoestring budget. Hitchhiking across southern Africa, seeing the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe. It was a blast and it changed my life for the better in many, many ways. One thing I learned was that, believe it or not, there comes a time where you don't want to see another amazing Roman ruin, spend the night in a cool castle, enjoy the best views of the city, climb a mountain, see more elephants/gazelles/giraffes/crocodiles/hippos (etc.) or spend (another *f'n*) day at the beach. .. ... because there's no point to it. It took me 18 months to reach this point in my exuberant 20's. Now I might reach that point sooner.

+1

+2 : )

About 3 years into saving for FI, I used the money I saved up to transition away from a career I hated and took a month long back packing trip to Europe. Travel is fun and I enjoy it occassionally, but it's not satisfying long term. Totally agree with you there. I'm now doing work I enjoy on a daily basis too, which is awesome.

I'm grateful for these experiences because I'm saving for FI and I'm perfectly happy. Now, there's not the experience of leaving something bad. It's just having more and more good options.

And it only took $20k and 3 years to get the gumption to do it instead of the decade(s) long journey most have to complete FI.

SeattleCPA

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Redmond, WA
    • Evergreen Small Business
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 12:09:23 PM »
This is something I've struggled with a lot. Right now, I'm FI, but not RE, for a couple of reasons:

1) The work is easy; not demanding, no office politics, not the 'drudgery' I was taught it would be as a child.
2) I'm my own boss. OK, my customers are my boss, but they're easy to work with.
3) The money is fantastic.
4) How else would I spend my day(s)?
5) I love the thrill of closing a deal/sales.
6) I pretty much do what I want now anyways.

To elaborate on #4: When I was in my 20's, I spent a year and a half traveling the world on a shoestring budget. Hitchhiking across southern Africa, seeing the Middle East, Southern and Eastern Europe. It was a blast and it changed my life for the better in many, many ways. One thing I learned was that, believe it or not, there comes a time where you don't want to see another amazing Roman ruin, spend the night in a cool castle, enjoy the best views of the city, climb a mountain, see more elephants/gazelles/giraffes/crocodiles/hippos (etc.) or spend (another *f'n*) day at the beach. .. ... because there's no point to it. It took me 18 months to reach this point in my exuberant 20's. Now I might reach that point sooner.

+1

+2 : )

About 3 years into saving for FI, I used the money I saved up to transition away from a career I hated and took a month long back packing trip to Europe. Travel is fun and I enjoy it occassionally, but it's not satisfying long term. Totally agree with you there. I'm now doing work I enjoy on a daily basis too, which is awesome.

I'm grateful for these experiences because I'm saving for FI and I'm perfectly happy. Now, there's not the experience of leaving something bad. It's just having more and more good options.

And it only took $20k and 3 years to get the gumption to do it instead of the decade(s) long journey most have to complete FI.

+1

:-)
My blog Evergreen Small Business
My free downloadable ebook: Thirteen Word Retirement Plan

Mezzie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
    • Mezzie Learns
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 06:32:11 AM »
Mezzie,   

A good way to provide health insurance if you RE would be to use a Christian Heath Care organization.....I was looking into one called Liberty.  It is for healthy people and is a disaster relief insurance (ie don't go to the doctor but if I have a need for chemo / surgery, I have coverage).  Obviously you have to be a Christian.  Not sure if other religions have something similar.   FYI this bypasses any prior/current federal fines for not having health insurance.  I would only recommend it to health folks but worth a look.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I have a chronic condition that requires regular appointments and medication, so that wouldn't work for me. It's actually my worsening health that made me start looking up how to retire early if necessary; I'd prefer to cut back or retire on my own terms rather than going on disability. :)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/preparing-for-forced-early-retirement-due-to-disability/

Join my ibotta team for rebates: https://ibotta.com/r/bdtnbyj

Join my Shopkick team so we can start a Vespa gang (or you can get more practical gift cards...if you think those are better than a Vespa for some reason): https://app.shopkick.com/r/3eNYBE

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 04:38:05 PM »
Understand the chronuc issue. Had a stroke last year but fully recovered.  Crazy what / how that changes what you think is important with finances (changes how you view your home financially as an example.......math says don't pay off but sleeping better at night tells you to pay it off).

Axecleaver

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3201
  • Location: New York
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2017, 08:02:27 PM »
I agree with the general sentiment. Not planning to retire forever, looking to stay involved for the duration. But! I would like to change how I spend my time. A lot of my day to day is on less interesting tasks.

I think a lot of entrepreneurs do work they'd rather pay someone else to do, while they take the high thinking pieces. That's where I want to live.

Freedom2016

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 08:42:45 AM »
Didn't mean major differences. We are all here and post because of the major lessons on MMM. I guess I see how many people really despise their employment in the corporate  world and I wonder if there is more job satisfaction with entrepreneurs who are perhaps diffierent as the typical entrepreneur as they are on this site.  I guess with me I take extreme pride in what I have made and can't relate to hating my job.  When I started I did many things wrong but once I understand how to change the culture of my office this changed dramatically. It took me about 4 years of doing it wrong then slow change over 2 years and bliss for the past 2 years

Doc, would you mind sharing more about the bolded piece? I am teaching a leadership class and next week we are talking about organizational culture. I would love to hear what the 'original' culture was in your company, and the changes you made?

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 07:32:56 PM »
So many things we could talk about when it comes to culture Freedom.  Honestly in the end, it came down to me being the leader and understand that the way may company runs comes from me and the choices I made.   I was not choosing how I wanted to my company to run........letting something "slide" when someone did something wrong is the same as saying "yes you may doing this".   This made me decide I needed to work "on my business and not just in my business"   I few of my big takes I honestly took from "entreleadership" via dave ramsey.   My culture was gossiping, leaving work early, poor quality on reports.   As I changed myself and who I was, then they followed.  They wouldn't change until I did that...............in the end, as the business owner, the company ends up being what you allow it to be.  Hope some of this helps.   Unorganized thoughts below............I could honestly write 100 pages on culture and small changes we did.

Big Points:
1. We say/share our company police all the time........."we want to be THE GREATEST.................."
2. Weekly meetings begun (funny how every deparment thinks the over departments don't work)
3. Only two fireable offense in my office.......1 = Gossip  2 = you say "that's not my job".........both destroy team unity and ownership of the company.  I clean up when I see a mess in my office, when they see me do this they know I care about everything here.
4. Using KRA's from the Dave's book was great also, when people understand what their job is then they know they will not be working at my office if they don't do these.........people know they are going to be let go before they are (haven't let go of someone in about 3 years).  I hand them a piece of paper with this on the top when they start "To be successful at #$%# I will"
5. Care of people..........I have lost 4 people from my office people I told them they were too good to continue to work in the career they are in........ie, medical assistant becoming an RN and others.  This lets everyone know that I care about them personaly even though it hurts me to lose great team members.
5. Hiring is easy..........always do 2 interviews with the 2nd being a full day "shadow".....my employees care about our place and won't let me hire someone that won't fit it (in a good way) and I only hire motivated people ( I don't have to "rally the troops" as I only bring in "rallied troops").

Again, could write so much but I have to stop somewhere

Axecleaver

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3201
  • Location: New York
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 06:33:29 AM »
#5 is a big one. If you're invested in the careers of your people, it inspires a lot of loyalty. My ask for my team is that if they get a competing offer, come talk to me about it. Sometimes the opportunities they get are better than what I can provide, so I tell them to take it, give them a letter of recommendation, and keep in touch.

stashgrower

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
  • Location: Australia
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 07:21:05 AM »
Helpful lessons. Thanks for sharing, DocMcStuffins and Axecleaver.

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2017, 08:10:47 AM »
Axe, I do the same and have told people they need to leave for a better opportunity.  Statistically, people will leave a business primarily based on their relationship to the "manager" above them then salary/benefits.  I hear these terrible tales on the forum about managers and how they treat people.  I pay well but I know of three employees I have that were making more money at other jobs but would not go back........

1 employee came on because of hour reputuation (won the small business of the year on our city in 2015) and our hours (my model is that you make everything so effecient that we get to go home at 4pm every day and noon on fridays.  She was working until 7 pm most nights.
1 employee had a baby and knew we were "child friendly" as I have 4 kids.  On fridays when school is out we have alot of children who come and help in our office (paper work, cleaning) as this is a 8-12 work day and this cuts down on child care costs.  This particular employee needed to know that when her child was ill or had issues with childcare (rare) that she could bring her child to work as she had no family in the area to assist all the time.

Best part of those two employees are that they are really fantastic at their jobs and have increased my income significantly.

Freedom2016

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2017, 02:13:03 PM »
Thanks so much for sharing, doc! This is great stuff. :)

DocMcStuffins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: We are a different group.....I won't FIRE
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2017, 04:31:17 AM »
👍