Author Topic: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.  (Read 7484 times)

CargoBiker

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #100 on: March 07, 2017, 10:20:13 PM »
Because you have not stopped trying to get others to see the light!

hahaha, I love your observation, and I guess it's true.  I don't bother talking business to people in real life, however. 

I think I was just trying to keep the thread afloat from getting completely over-run with anti-business naysayers. I made the thread under the false assumption that this community would have more business-minded people than a typical sub-set of people.

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Works for me just fine - less competition.

You're right. And where would our businesses be without the consumers? 

SwedishMoustache

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #101 on: March 08, 2017, 02:00:53 AM »
I own a consulting business which does fairly well and on average has netted me 900-1300$/month for the past 2 years or so. Now things are slowing down, and i have friends constantly telling me that i should invest in X or Y with them.

I don't.

I started my business with my computer and my printer and made it into a small business. I have no desire to spend 5000-10000$ in an idea that could, potentially, flounder and fail. That's risk, and a risk that's hard to calculate. Buying businesses, websites or the like is a high-risk investment. Most businesses started in sweden fail within a few years.

I would rather put those 5000-10000$ to work in my portfolio. It takes money to make money. In my case, in all of my cases, all it's taken is time. But i'm someone who plays things extremely safe. Business ownership is a very risky thing to do - it's more risk than i'm willing to take, especially if it involves me putting down dollars on the table that might be lost if things do not go well.

Kudos to those who invest and do so successfully, in businesses. If i'm starting a business, usually it involves me sitting down with someone and discussing how we can get things going. For zero - or near-zero - dollars :). If that's not possible then i usually am not interested. Do i miss some opportunities? Probably.

Does it bother me?

Nope.

A common attitude i encounter in friends who know about my investments and about my wealth is that because i have money, i shouldn't care if lose 1000$. Or 5000$. Or 10000$. I mean, i have so much anyway, right? Wrong. Every dollar counts.

OP says that yeah, maybe the first 4 or 5 business ideas fail - but you could get it right eventually. Well, what if you don't? What if you, like the OP, get scammed a number of times, end up out 25-30 000$ that you could have spent on either loan repayment or investing? Some people don't have the luxury of failing a "few times". Frankly, as far as business advice goes, that's as bad as it gets.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 02:08:36 AM by SwedishMoustache »

Johnez

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #102 on: March 08, 2017, 02:43:56 AM »
I just want to say I love your enthusiasm and optimism CargoBiker. This thread is the epitome of the saying:

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you are right."




CargoBiker

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #103 on: March 08, 2017, 07:29:15 AM »
I just want to say I love your enthusiasm and optimism CargoBiker. This thread is the epitome of the saying:

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you are right."

Very true.  One of my favorite quotes.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/03/the-practical-benefits-of-outrageous-optimism/

CargoBiker

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #104 on: March 08, 2017, 07:49:15 AM »
If i'm starting a business, usually it involves me sitting down with someone and discussing how we can get things going. For zero - or near-zero - dollars :). If that's not possible then i usually am not interested. Do i miss some opportunities? Probably.

I'm the same way.  I'd prefer to bootstrap a business from nothing, rather than go "all-in" and invest everything that I have.  If you enter in with this mindset, I think you tend to be way more conservative and efficient with the operation of the business in general.


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Some people don't have the luxury of failing a "few times". Frankly, as far as business advice goes, that's as bad as it gets.

It wasn't advice. If I could go back, of course I wouldn't have made those choices, as they were just dumb. It was an illustrative story to counter the "don't do business because most businesses fail" posts. If you do fail on the first try, which many do, of course do it with as little money invested as possible, like you've said, and be sure to learn a lesson from the failure. 

I was hard-headed and the lessons I should've learned from my first failure, would've have prevented the future failures if I had taken a step back and allowed myself to learn from the mistakes.



What's the business culture like in Sweden?  I've had a Swede tell me that it's culturally looked-down-upon to try and go off on your own and create a high-earning business. He also told me that business failure is very embarrassing, and people tend to hide failures from their past.   Is this true of your experience as well?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 09:23:49 AM by CargoBiker »

SeattleCPA

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #105 on: March 08, 2017, 07:56:09 AM »
I just want to say I love your enthusiasm and optimism CargoBiker. This thread is the epitome of the saying:

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you are right."

+1

SwedishMoustache

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2017, 08:30:00 AM »
What's the business culture like in Sweden?  I've had a Swede tell me that it's culturally looked-down-upon to try and go off on your own and create a high-earning business. He also told me that business failure is very embarrassing, and people tend to hide failures from their past.   Is this true of your experience as well?

It's looked-down upon to earn money in sweden.

No, really. I'm serious. If you're an extremely well-off person (currently, i make as much money as an entire, wealthy household of 2 people together after taxes), you don't want to around telling anyone. Ever. While i won't be in this position forever, i will always be careful telling people just how my finances look because of this. It also makes it very hard to find a partner who is financially suitable, because most swedes live very much paycheck-to-paycheck, but would never admit that they do.

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The Law of Jante (Danish: Janteloven, IPA: [ˈjand̥əˌloʋˀən]; Norwegian Bokmål: Janteloven, Nynorsk: Jantelova, IPA: [ˈjɑntəˌlɔːvən]; Icelandic: Jantelögin; Swedish: Jantelagen, IPA: [ˈjantɛˌlɑːɡɛn]) is the description of a pattern of group behaviour towards individuals within Scandinavian communities that negatively portrays and criticises individual success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate. The Jante Law as a concept was created by the Dano-Norwegian author Aksel Sandemose,[1] who, in his novel A Fugitive Crosses His Tracks (En flyktning krysser sitt spor, 1933, English translation published in the USA in 1936), identified the Law of Jante as ten rules. Sandemose's novel portrays the small Danish town Jante (modelled upon his native town Nykøbing Mors as it was at the beginning of the 20th century, but typical of all small towns and communities), where nobody is anonymous.[2]

Generally used colloquially in Sweden and the rest of the Nordic countries as a sociological term to describe a condescending attitude towards individuality and success, the term refers to a mentality that de-emphasises individual effort and places all emphasis on the collective, while discouraging those who stand out as achievers.[3]

The above is true in every respect. It's gotten better with higher degrees of globalization, but you do not want to showcase your success, or even use it as an example to give advice, except to VERY close friends. Chances are, people will take offense in the "You're  just trying to be better than me"-way.

Scandinavian psychology is that the more money you make, the more money you should pay back. To other people, to taxes, to society. It's one of the reasons i'm thinking of FIRE-ing in another country, though i do not know which one.

I'm not actually swede by birth btw, i'm german.  I've lived here since i was 4 though.


Sweden is a very "special" country. My ex, who was from Seattle, hated how antisocial and weird certain aspects of our society are. When she described them to me, i could actually understand her really, really well.

But on the other hand, we have free education, healthcare, excellent public transportation and some of the best tax climates in the world (for dividend investment).

Where would i live if i could, and have everything work out, including taxes and the like? Probably Colorado or Texas, honestly.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 08:52:38 AM by SwedishMoustache »

CargoBiker

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2017, 09:29:03 AM »
Swedish: Jantelagen, IPA: [ˈjantɛˌlɑːɡɛn]) is the description of a pattern of group behaviour towards individuals within Scandinavian communities that negatively portrays and criticises individual success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate.

Yeah, Jantelagen is the word my friend used, I just couldn't remember what it was. Thanks for providing the interesting context behind it.


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Scandinavian psychology is that the more money you make, the more money you should pay back. To other people, to taxes, to society. It's one of the reasons i'm thinking of FIRE-ing in another country, though i do not know which one.

Yeah, that's interesting. It makes sense, being a socialist country.


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But on the other hand, we have free education, healthcare, excellent public transportation and some of the best tax climates in the world (for dividend investment).

My family lived in Malmo for 2 months last summer... we loved it.  Cycling everywhere was nice, tons of parks/playgrounds, seemed very family-friendly.

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Where would i live if i could, and have everything work out, including taxes and the like? Probably Colorado or Texas, honestly.

I live in Texas, I like it... just not the summer heat, haha.  We have no state income tax, but property tax is higher than other states.

BAMxi

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #108 on: March 27, 2017, 11:25:19 AM »
OP, the business you're describing is a similar structure to one I've thought about getting into many times. It definitely has great potential and I think I'd like setting it up and watching it grow quite a lot. I understand you not wanting to give out specifics of your own operation, but curious how you settled on whatever you settled on or selected it? was it an item you had dealt a lot with in the past or just saw an opportunity to market something that others were not capitalizing on?

CargoBiker

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Re: Want to Retire Faster? Don't Invest. Start a Business Instead.
« Reply #109 on: March 27, 2017, 12:23:38 PM »
but curious how you settled on whatever you settled on or selected it? was it an item you had dealt a lot with in the past or just saw an opportunity to market something that others were not capitalizing on?

1. Lots of demand, not a lot of competition
2. Low production leadtimes and simple logistics.
3. Margin isn't as high as I would like it to be, but it's decent, and the volume makes up for it.
4. Fast turnaround and cash flow.

After spending 40-50 hours looking at hundreds of potential products, I just *knew* when I found this niche that it was the right one. It checked nearly all of my boxes.

I had no previous experience with these products, however, there wasn't much required technical insider knowledge required.