Window Advice

[Winnipeger]

First post, so hello all!  Been reading the blog/forum for a few years now, just haven't had a question until now.  Love the blog/forum/everything.

I'm as DIY as possible, having done Bathrooms, built cabinets, fences, decks, and other small projects around the house.  However I recently purchased a new 1983 house that probably needs some new windows.  The previous owner had drilled small holes in the windows to eliminate fogging, but other than that they are original 1983 wood windows.  The cost/benefit on replacing windows vs. energy savings doesn't seem very good, and the one quote I got from a family friend/window installer was pretty spendy. 

I'm trying to avoid vinyl windows, as I'm getting the sense they are bad for the environment/and possibly health.  Is there a way to replace my glass on my old windows that is cost effective/energy effective/& long term not a band-aid?  I understand it is possible for fixed panes, but is it possible with crank out windows?  (The ones with the handles and worm drive that open outwards) 

I found this site as well, http://www.indowwindows.com/, any ideas for something similar in Canada?  I live in Winnipeg, so obviously cold will factor in. 

Sorry, lots of info for one post I know!  Thanks in advance! 

[FINate]

We had replacement vinyl windows installed 6+ years ago and we are very happy. They are extremely energy efficient and maintenance free. The key with vinyl is to go with a high quality brand since durability is largely a function of the quality of the recipe used to mix the vinyl, including the amount and grade of titanium dioxide used. I think we paid somewhere around $500-$800 per window, depending on the size/features, so not cheap, but they should last a very long time. Even on the side of the house getting full sun they still look brand new. I expect they will hold up for several more decades.

That said, wood windows are great and should last almost indefinitely as long as they are properly maintained. And of course the glass can be replaced. Since the wood is in good condition why do any of the windows need to be replaced at all, other than broken glass? Is it possible that some of the windows just need to be reglazed and/or the wood refinished? Stripping and refinishing the wood is likely going to involve harsh chemicals, so not sure if this is any better/worse than vinyl - just part of preserving/protecting a natural material.

[Winnipeger]

Thanks for the reply FINate!

Will have to inquire about the vinyl, we do have a second installer coming next week to give another estimate so will ask him.  I think most of the builders here use a few similar suppliers.

I hadn't thought about the chemical stripping part, good point!  & will ask this installer what he can do re window replacement/or even if I can order and replace myself.

My wife is the reason for looking at replacement, she thinks they are due to be fixed as they are so old & doesn't like the fact some still fog/have holes drilled in them.  They are all old triple panes, and the seals are mostly gone in all of them.  As well we are on a relatively busy street, busier now with construction, so she hopes new windows will reduce road noise.  I'm willing to look at it as would like to increase energy efficiency, but would like to be mustachian about it if possible.  :) 

(That said, I think adding more insulation in the attic would be a more cost effective way to increase energy efficiency.)

[a1pharm]

Time to do some good old-fashioned math.

You might want to just leave them in place:

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/windowsanddoors/a/artfailedseal.htm

The article states the R-value of your windows is likely 2, while new windows will likely be 4.3.  Before repairing/replacing anything, if you are a true mustacian, figure out the ROI on installing new windows vs. leaving in place and paying higher energy bills.

If you are a real DIY'er, you shouldn't need to pay someone to install new windows for you (it is a project a seasoned DIY'er can do over the course of a few weeks).

Don't make a hasty decision that will tack on a year or more to your working life.

Don't expect new windows to drown out much noise.  If this is your primary goal, make some heavy duty curtains and hang them.  They will dampen the noise and also act as an insulator.

[lthenderson]

Why are windows made in 1983 considered old? I've had windows three times as old that are still in good shape and I wouldn't be in any hurry to replace. There are people/places that will professionally come out, remove, restore and reinstall them and you wouldn't believe how much more efficient they become when properly restored. Windows built in the early part of the 20th century were built to last forever. I can't say that about many modern new windows.

[Winnipeger]

Thanks A1pharm,

I think your post was perfect, as it resonated with everything I was thinking but didn't realize.  I really don't want to replace if unnecessary, and the cost of paying to have replaced seems crazy, even with the family friend discount. 

Think we'll try them this winter, and will have to learn how to replace myself next summer. 

[Winnipeger]

I agree on the repair lthenderson, i've spent some time looking repair sites, and they all seem to be about 1960-1970's and older.  But yeah you're right 1983 isn't old.  :)

I will be askinh the guy coming next week about taking them out myself and getting the seals redone.  The wood around the window is not rotted much, could repair rather well. 

I think I probably just need to do more research, and talk to people in the business around town.

Thanks for all the replies!  Great site!

[FINate]

I think you need to consider three options:

1) Do nothing: This winter try to get a sense for how your windows perform. They may be good enough even though the seals are shot, but maybe not, the difference between r2 and r4 is significant. If you feel cold air cascading down then you're losing a lot of heat. If possible, compare to a high efficient window in the same conditions (e.g. at a friend's house). We ended up replacing ours because the old aluminum frame ones were very drafty and inefficient, and the siding/trim was failing on the house so we decided to also replace the windows while everything was already opened up.

2) Full window replacement: Vinyl, fiberglass, wood, etc. I would consider this primarily if the wood frames of your current windows are in rough shape. This doesn't sound like the case, but I think it's worth getting quotes on this (should be the cost installed, not just materials, unless you plan on doing your own install) as a baseline for comparison purposes.

3) Glass replacement (http://www.familyhandyman.com/windows/repair/how-to-replace-insulating-glass/view-all). How much is it to order replacement triple plane insulated glass, and how much to install? Are you willing/able to install yourself?

[FINate]

I will be askinh the guy coming next week about taking them out myself and getting the seals redone.  The wood around the window is not rotted much, could repair rather well. 

If possible, get a couple of opinions. Oftentimes contractors have a bias - they've done a lot of vinyl windows, everyone on the crew knows how to do these efficiently, and they have a good deal with a manufacturer - so of course those "old" wood windows need to be totally replaced :) I would look for someone who specializes in glass replacement in wood windows and get their opinion and quote as well.