Unrealistic project? (Home Renovation)

[thefrugaler]

We are looking at houses and found one that we like, but needs a ton of work.  Really.  A lot.  Based on the (negotiated) sale price of the house and our max budget we would have $50k for a renovation project.  However, the house was built in the late 70s and has had two owners.  Neither of the owners have replaced much if anything of the original house.  There are major things that need updating:

it has the original HVAC system (electric furnace, a/c, thermostat system etc)
needs 13 new windows
a water heater
it has some issue that causes leaking if a hose is left running on one of the outside faucets (not sure if it is a plumbing issue or foundation issue)
blower motor on fireplace needs to be replaced
must repair retaining wall to prevent drainage issues
I am sure there are some electrical updates since the house may not even meet current codes
the current owners 'updated' the a bathroom and the kitchen (although it was 20 years ago) and they put in the seller's disclosure that they 'don't know' if they got permits or not for the work.  Which tells me they probably didn't and there may be things that don't meet code or need to be fixed that we don't even know about yet.

In addition there are cosmetic things that we want to change/update:
~2500 sqft of flooring that needs to be replaced (all original carpeting with no hardwood underneath)
The current bathroom has an odd set up and the master bath is connected to the main bathroom of the house so essentially one full bath for 3 bedrooms.  There is another full bath but it is on a different level of the home. 
an electric fence for the dog
removing a few doors
fixing broken/missing molding/baseboards
Appliances in the kitchen
There is a lot of wallpaper that is in disrepair and a drop ceiling in parts of the basement that need to be replaced.

Is a $50k budget even reasonable?  We would need to hire most of the work out as we have two little ones, a dog, and would need to move in as soon as possible after closing. 

Are there way too many red flags and we should just move on and keep looking at other houses? 

Our next step is to get a contractor to do a walk through with us to give us an estimated figure, but I wanted to reach out here first to get some initial feedback. 

[Papa bear]

I usually back of napkin use 40/sf for remodel for a house (in Ohio).  Kitchens and bathrooms are much more expensive and br's and lr's less, so average at 40. 

You could do it if you DIY the entire project on 50k but not if you pay a contractor.  This is just my experience.


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[crispy]

I think 50K may be a little low if you are contracting it out.We bought a 70s fixer upper in August, and we have spent about 30K fixing it up. Fortunately, the HVAC system and the roof were only a couple of years old, and it has new storm windows so we didn't have to worry about that.  A friend of mine's dad is a licensed handyman and has done most of the work for us, and he hasn't charged us a ton.

Here is a breakdown of some of our costs:
Two bathrooms - 4.5K; This included removing wallpaper, skim coating the walls, putting in new vanities with granite tops, minor plumbing, painting, and new tile floors.  The bath tubs were in good shape and the toilets were new when we moved in. 

New flooring for around 2000sf (luxury vinyl plank and carpet) - 6K; This is happening this coming week, but these are the estimates we received

Laundry room- 2.5K; This included putting in a new ceiling and insulation, a new tile floor, skim coating and painting the walls

Bonus Room - 12K - There is a bonus room over the garage that was never been finished and never connected to the house although it is plumbed,  has electricity, and was drywalled.  The money was spent connecting it to the house, paying for asbestos abatement, adding insulation and a new ceiling, adding a closet, adding a ductless mini-split HVAC unit, and painting. We also paid a sructural engineer to come in and make sure the room was structurally sound and if it could be converted into a room without causing structural isues.

Kitchen - $350; The kitchen cabinets and counters were ugly as sin, but both were in great shape so we decided to paint them.  This was a lot of work, but saved us a ton of money and looks really nice. We used Giani countertop paint kit specifically for countertops. We also added all new hardware.  The kitchen floor will be replaced also, but that is under the flooring budget.

Painting - 2.5K; This is one area we could have saved some money, but we did pay a professional to sand and paint all the trim, windows, and the paneling in the vaulted living room before we moved in the house.  We could have done it ourselves, but he did a great job and it was completed before we moved in the house which was nice.

New Doors - 1K - We will spend about 1K on all new doors for the entire house.  The ones in the house are 40 years old and are cheap and ugly.

If the house was built in the 70s definitely have it tested for asbestos.  We knew coming in that the house we bought has asbestos in the popcorn ceiling.  The bonus room had some ceiling damage so we had to pay to have it removed by a company specializing in asbestos removal.  If we decided to have the rest of the house done at some point, it will probably cost about 6 to 8K. 


 

[big_owl]

We are looking at houses and found one that we like, but needs a ton of work.  Really.  A lot.  Based on the (negotiated) sale price of the house and our max budget we would have $50k for a renovation project.  However, the house was built in the late 70s and has had two owners.  Neither of the owners have replaced much if anything of the original house.  There are major things that need updating:

it has the original HVAC system (electric furnace, a/c, thermostat system etc)
needs 13 new windows
a water heater
it has some issue that causes leaking if a hose is left running on one of the outside faucets (not sure if it is a plumbing issue or foundation issue)
blower motor on fireplace needs to be replaced
must repair retaining wall to prevent drainage issues
I am sure there are some electrical updates since the house may not even meet current codes
the current owners 'updated' the a bathroom and the kitchen (although it was 20 years ago) and they put in the seller's disclosure that they 'don't know' if they got permits or not for the work.  Which tells me they probably didn't and there may be things that don't meet code or need to be fixed that we don't even know about yet.

In addition there are cosmetic things that we want to change/update:
~2500 sqft of flooring that needs to be replaced (all original carpeting with no hardwood underneath)
The current bathroom has an odd set up and the master bath is connected to the main bathroom of the house so essentially one full bath for 3 bedrooms.  There is another full bath but it is on a different level of the home. 
an electric fence for the dog
removing a few doors
fixing broken/missing molding/baseboards
Appliances in the kitchen
There is a lot of wallpaper that is in disrepair and a drop ceiling in parts of the basement that need to be replaced.

Is a $50k budget even reasonable?  We would need to hire most of the work out as we have two little ones, a dog, and would need to move in as soon as possible after closing. 

Are there way too many red flags and we should just move on and keep looking at other houses? 

Our next step is to get a contractor to do a walk through with us to give us an estimated figure, but I wanted to reach out here first to get some initial feedback.

Check out the million dollar basement thread in the badass subforum.  I think your estimate it probably very low - especially if you contract it out. 

A new HVAC system alone would be between $5-10k depending on size and scope (is it central ducting, will interior refrigerant tubes need to be replaced, etc?).  Even if you did it all yourself it would probably come down to the finishing choices you make - type of flooring, etc.

Electric water heaters are pretty cheap if you install yourself, maybe $2k+ if you contract it out?

Bringing electric up to code?  Waaaaay too man unknowns there, you never know what a contractor is going to "find" wrong while he's in there...and if you're at his mercy.....

13 windows....ugh don't even wanna think about that one.  I could see that being $10k+ easy depending on size and type of windows.
Appliances in kitchen....this could very easily be $4k for a fridge, dishwasher and microwave installed by contractor depending on your model choices.  If you really cheap out then you could do better but again it's a personal choice.

[Blatant]

I'm not an expert, but based on my own experience with remodeling, I think you won't come close at $50k.

Plumbing? HVAC? Possible foundation issues? Electrical? Possible permitting issues? I doubt you could do it at that budget if you did all the work yourself.

Either keep looking or get the price down to the point where you can budget $100k for remodeling.

[former player]

2,500 sqft of flooring - is that the whole house, or only part of it?  Because the totally unmustachian part of what you want to do is buying such a big house.  Is all that space a need or just a want?

[soupcxan]

I have not seen the house, nor am I familiar with your local contracting market, but I think you will be closer to $100k than $50k for that scope of work unless you choose the absolute cheapest materials for every single work item. And until you get in there and open it up, you really have no idea what you'll find.

[thefrugaler]

Thanks for the reality check everyone.  It sounds like we probably can't get the price to where we need it to be to really do everything the way we would want/need. 

[sisto]

You can probably get some estimates for the work before actually buying the place. As for the electrical, unless it has aluminum wiring, I don't really think you have an issue there with a house built in the '70s. Just work with the realtor and line up some estimates for what you want done and go from there.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Thanks for the reality check everyone.  It sounds like we probably can't get the price to where we need it to be to really do everything the way we would want/need.

You were looking at way more than $50k. You're making the right move.

[eljefe-speaks]

Bringing electric up to code?  Waaaaay too man unknowns there, you never know what a contractor is going to "find" wrong while he's in there...and if you're at his mercy.....

One thing you can check for yourself is see if the electrical wiring aluminum instead of copper. Someone on here probably knows more than me but supposedly this is a hazard and is mega expensive to totally replace.

[justajane]

Yes, my estimate would be closer to 100K as well. HVAC work is expensive. I would estimate about 6-7K for that, 10K if you want to mess with the ducts at all. Water heater ca. $500-1K depending on how much work would need to be done to bring the new one up to code. Between $200-$500 a window, depending on the size or quality. That much flooring will be thousands and thousands, depending on your quality of flooring. It could be over 15K if you go with nice hardwood. A couple thousand for appliances on the cheaper end. A new electrical panel can run over 1K. Any renovation of bathrooms and kitchens that you don't do yourself is $$$$. The sky's the limit on that. That house sounds like a money pit or your standards are too high.

[Green_Thing]

Take a deeeeep Mustachian breath. And another. How many of these 'must fix' things are actually broken? Is the house unlivable, red-tagged, or hanging open to the elements? Did the prior owners die from the deficiencies of the house?
Another deeeeep Mustachian breath. What if you buy the house as is and live with the downgrades until something actually breaks?
Do some little things as time and cash allows. Paint. Insulation. I'll guarantee that after you live there for a few months your priorities will change. What looks unlivable now may prove to be temporarily bearable. Or you might not even notice it anymore. Seriously.
Another deeeep Mustachian breath. Get a home warranty. It will fix things that are actually broken. Don't replace what isn't broken.
If you can't live with this approach I'd suggest you don't buy a home that isn't perfect... And I'd suggest you prepare to spend way more money than you should.

[pbkmaine]

Take a deeeeep Mustachian breath. And another. How many of these 'must fix' things are actually broken? Is the house unlivable, red-tagged, or hanging open to the elements? Did the prior owners die from the deficiencies of the house?
Another deeeeep Mustachian breath. What if you buy the house as is and live with the downgrades until something actually breaks?
Do some little things as time and cash allows. Paint. Insulation. I'll guarantee that after you live there for a few months your priorities will change. What looks unlivable now may prove to be temporarily bearable. Or you might not even notice it anymore. Seriously.
Another deeeep Mustachian breath. Get a home warranty. It will fix things that are actually broken. Don't replace what isn't broken.
If you can't live with this approach I'd suggest you don't buy a home that isn't perfect... And I'd suggest you prepare to spend way more money than you should.

This.

[Kaplin261]

it has the original HVAC system (electric furnace, a/c, thermostat system etc)

$2000-$2500
I recently did this myself. Had a reputable HVAC contractor give me a estimate and it was over $7k.

Tear out the old system and put it on the curb and place a craigslist ad with a picture saying free but must take everything, with in 2 hours it will be gone($500 saved from a disposal fee, time to safely dismantle system 3-4 hours). Take pictures before demolition so you have something to reference if you forget how it went together.

Next go on ebay and match the system size you just took out(tons is how they rate systems) I recommend brand buying Goodman. You can find a ebay HVAC dealer who will deliver to your front door with a lift gate system for under $1500(local dealers will not sell to homeowners). The system will come pre filled with refrigerant, you will also need to purchase separately the copper lines (line set),  thermostat wire, mastic,duct insulation and flexible duct.

Tear out all the old flexible duct and insulation on the sheet metal supply duct. Use the mastic to seal any gaps on the duct and where the new sytem connects to the old duct work. You will need to run the line set from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit but hire a pro to braze the copper and release the refrigerant. The electrical is easy enough if you do your research.

There are plenty of videos on youtube with people doing this, watch as many as you can. Don't be afraid to call a hvac company and ask questions. Even if you can't finish the install , if  you get everything demo'd, new system in place and ready to be hooked up its going to half the cost of what they would quote you for the doing the whole thing. Brazing and releasing the refrigerant cost me $250 to have a pro do it.

needs 13 new windows

What is wrong with the windows? Old wooden single pane windows? Chances are what you have is better than the vinyl windows you can buy now. Do some reading on this forum about new vinyl windows. Weather strip them and caulk. Do your best to eliminate air gaps and they can out perform cheap vinyl windows.

blower motor on fireplace needs to be replaced

You just installed a brand new electrical HVAC unit why do you need a fireplace? Does the home come with a forest in your backyard? Buying firewood is not cheap. If you need some extra heat in that room to improve comfort buy a space heater ($20) and only use it when you're in the room,40 hours a month running a 1500 watt space heater is  60kwh x $0.12 = $7.20

I am sure there are some electrical updates since the house may not even meet current codes

The wiring from the 70's home probably would not meet today's codes. However unless there are some red flags this is something that should meet your needs without needing to be replaced. If there were known issues the seller would have to disclose this information. If there has not been any issues in the last 40 years there is no reason there would be new issues now.

the current owners 'updated' the a bathroom and the kitchen (although it was 20 years ago) and they put in the seller's disclosure that they 'don't know' if they got permits or not for the work.  Which tells me they probably didn't and there may be things that don't meet code or need to be fixed that we don't even know about yet.

So the only clause for the kitchen and bathroom is that the work was not inspected by a building inspector? Again if there were other issues the seller would have to disclose them. For the last 20 years there have not been any issues with these home owner diy upgrades?

In addition there are cosmetic things that we want to change/update:

I think that these would be common problems with any home you look at that is 40 years old.

We would need to hire most of the work out, we are to busy.

I think long term you would be better off buying a home built after 2010. The home you described could be a great opportunity to learn some new skills for the right person. However with your busy life and lack of resources I could see this being a major headache for you in the future.

[BudgetSlasher]

it has the original HVAC system (electric furnace, a/c, thermostat system etc)

$2000-$2500
I recently did this myself. Had a reputable HVAC contractor give me a estimate and it was over $7k.

Tear out the old system and put it on the curb and place a craigslist ad with a picture saying free but must take everything, with in 2 hours it will be gone($500 saved from a disposal fee, time to safely dismantle system 3-4 hours). Take pictures before demolition so you have something to reference if you forget how it went together.

Next go on ebay and match the system size you just took out(tons is how they rate systems) I recommend brand buying Goodman. You can find a ebay HVAC dealer who will deliver to your front door with a lift gate system for under $1500(local dealers will not sell to homeowners). The system will come pre filled with refrigerant, you will also need to purchase separately the copper lines (line set),  thermostat wire, mastic,duct insulation and flexible duct.

Tear out all the old flexible duct and insulation on the sheet metal supply duct. Use the mastic to seal any gaps on the duct and where the new sytem connects to the old duct work. You will need to run the line set from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit but hire a pro to braze the copper and release the refrigerant. The electrical is easy enough if you do your research.

There are plenty of videos on youtube with people doing this, watch as many as you can. Don't be afraid to call a hvac company and ask questions. Even if you can't finish the install , if  you get everything demo'd, new system in place and ready to be hooked up its going to half the cost of what they would quote you for the doing the whole thing. Brazing and releasing the refrigerant cost me $250 to have a pro do it.

You are of course presuming that the existing system was appropriately sized and subsequent upgrades have not changed that calculation, other than that I agree the work is mostly easy even if it expands your 4-letter vocabulary and chews up your hands

needs 13 new windows

What is wrong with the windows? Old wooden single pane windows? Chances are what you have is better than the vinyl windows you can buy now. Do some reading on this forum about new vinyl windows. Weather strip them and caulk. Do your best to eliminate air gaps and they can out perform cheap vinyl windows.

blower motor on fireplace needs to be replaced

You just installed a brand new electrical HVAC unit why do you need a fireplace? Does the home come with a forest in your backyard? Buying firewood is not cheap. If you need some extra heat in that room to improve comfort buy a space heater ($20) and only use it when you're in the room,40 hours a month running a 1500 watt space heater is  60kwh x $0.12 = $7.20

I assume since he said blower he actually means fireplace stove insert and not a simple fireplace. I am not certain what you consider expensive for firewood . . . her if you buy it split and green and let it season yourself it is ~200/cord. You can play around with this spreadsheet https://ag.purdue.edu/extension/renewable-energy/Documents/ON-Farm/heatcalc.xls but at that price (and $0.12 electricity) it is on part with an ASHP in terms of cost to operate. 

I am sure there are some electrical updates since the house may not even meet current codes

The wiring from the 70's home probably would not meet today's codes. However unless there are some red flags this is something that should meet your needs without needing to be replaced. If there were known issues the seller would have to disclose this information. If there has not been any issues in the last 40 years there is no reason there would be new issues now.

I if it met code in the 70s it will be grandfathered in . . . of course there are little things that can be done and other projects could trigger a requirement to come up to current code.

the current owners 'updated' the a bathroom and the kitchen (although it was 20 years ago) and they put in the seller's disclosure that they 'don't know' if they got permits or not for the work.  Which tells me they probably didn't and there may be things that don't meet code or need to be fixed that we don't even know about yet.

So the only clause for the kitchen and bathroom is that the work was not inspected by a building inspector? Again if there were other issues the seller would have to disclose them. For the last 20 years there have not been any issues with these home owner diy upgrades?

I would never rely on having a seller be honest, complete, and knowledgable in their disclosures. I have seen plenty of houses that completely contradict the disclosures. However I agree if there are no problems a DIY is not an issue. To the OP truthfully depending on location having permits and local inspection may not amount to any meaningful assurance.

In addition there are cosmetic things that we want to change/update:

I think that these would be common problems with any home you look at that is 40 years old.

We would need to hire most of the work out, we are to busy.

I think long term you would be better off buying a home built after 2010. The home you described could be a great opportunity to learn some new skills for the right person. However with your busy life and lack of resources I could see this being a major headache for you in the future.