Author Topic: The sourdough thread  (Read 164871 times)

geekette

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #450 on: June 05, 2020, 11:17:49 AM »
If it keeps working for you, then I wouldn't worry about it, but otherwise, can you keep it in the door? 

x02947

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #451 on: June 05, 2020, 01:10:35 PM »
Fridge space efficiency is one of those "agree to disagree" topics with DW.  There's no room in the door :)

It doesn't seem to harm it any, but I haven't really been able test what it's like without the top being nearly frozen.  Stuff till turns out fine, I just have to mix it up super well to break it into tiny chunks. 

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #452 on: June 06, 2020, 05:37:39 PM »
Just made another batch today. Quick Q but what does it typically mean if my loaf is lacking in flavor? After initially mixing and letting sit for 30 minutes, I did 4 folds 30 mins apart across 2 hours before sticking it in the fridge overnight for about 8-9 hours to bulk ferment. Did I not allow it to bulk ferment for long enough? I'm still not sure how to go about bulk fermentation, logistically, when I don't want to leave it out but want to slow it down enough in the case of when I am splitting this between days because I don't want to stay up all night. Is it OK to remove the dough from the fridge during bulk fermentation in hopes of expediting the process of fermentation? And if so, how much longer do I let it rest at room temp? I know they say it varies by environment but I also find it odd that there are still general time ranges given (like 4-6 hours at room temp and as long as 8-24 hours in the fridge lol).

Did I not use enough starter? I had about 160-170grams of starter to 800g~ of flour.

The loafs came out fairly decent but still lacking in height:




« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 05:39:46 PM by jeromedawg »

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #453 on: June 07, 2020, 06:09:32 AM »
Baked a couple loaves this morning.  Small amount of tear out and a bit darker than I normally like; otherwise all good.  I haven't made full size loaves in months so think my cooking time was off a bit.  I may invest in a baking stone one of these days rather than continue to use cookie sheets.

edit: trying to make the pick size a bit smaller
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 01:18:43 PM by Dogastrophe »

the_gastropod

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #454 on: June 07, 2020, 08:18:08 AM »
Wow! Those are beautiful.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #455 on: June 07, 2020, 05:16:42 PM »
Really lovely!  Wish my scoring was that good!

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #456 on: June 08, 2020, 04:53:34 AM »
Thanks! I use a double edge razor blade attached to the end of a wood skewer which works well for the scoring.


MaybeBecca

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #457 on: June 09, 2020, 08:37:06 AM »
Just made another batch today. Quick Q but what does it typically mean if my loaf is lacking in flavor? After initially mixing and letting sit for 30 minutes, I did 4 folds 30 mins apart across 2 hours before sticking it in the fridge overnight for about 8-9 hours to bulk ferment. Did I not allow it to bulk ferment for long enough? I'm still not sure how to go about bulk fermentation, logistically, when I don't want to leave it out but want to slow it down enough in the case of when I am splitting this between days because I don't want to stay up all night. Is it OK to remove the dough from the fridge during bulk fermentation in hopes of expediting the process of fermentation? And if so, how much longer do I let it rest at room temp? I know they say it varies by environment but I also find it odd that there are still general time ranges given (like 4-6 hours at room temp and as long as 8-24 hours in the fridge lol).

Did I not use enough starter? I had about 160-170grams of starter to 800g~ of flour.

The loafs came out fairly decent but still lacking in height:




Something I can help with! Small book incoming, as there are a lot of variables I don't know and want to address.

Are you intending this sourdough to be 10% starter?  Because, while 160-170gms of starter is 20% of the flour weight, starter is measured by what weight of the flour is in the starter. So if you're looking for a total of 800 grams of flour, for 20% in the starter, you'd have 640g of dry flour and 320g of starter (assuming your starter is equal parts flour and water).  640 + (320/2) = 800g flour total in your recipe.  Lower amounts of starter are perfectly reasonable, if you are willing to let them sit for longer. That could be part of the issue, that it did not bulk ferment long enough with that amount of starter. Generally, lower starter amounts will lend to a greater sour flavor (seems counterintuitive, I know).

How active is your starter?  Is there liquid sitting on top when you use it?  If so, it is hungry and needs better feeding before using it as your sole leavener in a loaf.  I save my discard for all kinds of things that I will leaven by other means (or that don't require leavening), but for sourdough loaves your starter needs to be strong and active.

I see that you did several stretch and folds, but did you perform a windowpane test before moving to bulk ferment?  It's important that your gluten development is solid in order to see the maximum rise.  If you do your stretch and folds but don't get a good windowpane (light visible through thinly stretched dough without the dough tearing), it's okay to wait another 30 mins and stretch and fold again until you do get a windowpane.

I almost always will bulk ferment at room temp (generally for 3-5 hours with 20% starter), then shape and retard the loaf (put it in the fridge overnight).  I have had success with overnight fridge bulk fermentation, then letting it sit out for about an hour, then shaping and returning to the fridge for 2-3 hours before baking.  The dough will tell you when it's ready to be shaped.  If you poke it gently and it springs back some, but not completely, bulk fermentation is done.  It can be really hard at first to figure it out, and I had a lot of short dense loaves before I had even one good one.

Additional flavor component is salt; what is your salt percentage? I go with 1.5-2% which seems to be the general recommendation. Less is a little flaccid; more can be overwhelming. But the right amount of salt will make the loaf sing.

And lastly, at least for now, letting your loaf sit even after baking deepens the sour flavor if left at room temp.  When it takes me a few days to get through a loaf, the sourness comes out more later on.  And I don't see much deterioration in the softness/moisture of the bread over that length of time. 

Hopefully some of that is helpful to you! 

geekette

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #458 on: June 09, 2020, 02:55:52 PM »
Bailing on the boule for a bit. I wanted some whole wheat sandwich bread. It’s a bit dense, but I think it’ll do. The recipe stunk; it took far more flour than called for to create dough instead of batter, and took over an hour to bake instead of 30 minutes.  At 30, the interior temp was still under 100!


CrabbitDutchie

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #459 on: June 10, 2020, 11:05:32 AM »
Feel like I'm slowly starting to get the hang of how the dough should feel and behave. Best loaves are definitely happening during work days as I'm stuck at home and keeping half an eye on it. At the weekend I'm too likely to leave the flat and ignore my bread at critical points and overproof or get impatient to get it cooked before heading out and cook it underproofed.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 08:25:42 AM by CrabbitDutchie »

turketron

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #460 on: June 12, 2020, 08:22:29 AM »
Anyways, I divided it up into two bowls and proofed it in the fridge, and baked them simultaneously in my dutch ovens- I usually use 4 quart but threw the other loaf in the 7 quart even though it's way too big, just so I could bake them at the same time rather than keeping the oven on for hours. I got way more oven spring from one than the other, and I'm not sure why. I've attached a photo, the left one was in the larger DO and the right in the smaller one. Aside from the size of the dutch oven, really the only other difference is that the right one spent maybe another minute or two out of the fridge before going in the oven, as I pulled that one out first and scored it, then did the other one before putting them both in the oven. Any of you guys run into this?

A second test confirms it, the smaller DO produces a much higher oven spring- this photo is from right when the lids came off. I guess I'll bake them separately now, but that means having the oven running twice as long, at least until I can find another 4 or 5qt dutch oven on craigslist or something.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #461 on: June 12, 2020, 08:34:54 AM »
Do you have a suitable size/shape Pyrex dish? Those work well too...

turketron

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #462 on: June 12, 2020, 09:11:40 AM »
Do you have a suitable size/shape Pyrex dish? Those work well too...

Oh good call! I think we have one that might work, we used it a couple times a few years ago for a no-knead recipe before we had a dutch oven. From a quick google it sounds like the issue is that the extra space means that the steam doesn't stay on the surface of the loaf so it doesn't stay moist, which restricts the oven spring. So I might also try spraying a little extra water on the loaf in the big DO and see if that compensates for it.

CrabbitDutchie

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #463 on: June 13, 2020, 11:11:34 AM »
I think I'll be playing around with loaf size next. I reckon for the size of my Dutch oven my boules could be bigger. That's an amazing comparison of oven spring!

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #464 on: June 13, 2020, 06:04:03 PM »
Just made another batch today. Quick Q but what does it typically mean if my loaf is lacking in flavor? After initially mixing and letting sit for 30 minutes, I did 4 folds 30 mins apart across 2 hours before sticking it in the fridge overnight for about 8-9 hours to bulk ferment. Did I not allow it to bulk ferment for long enough? I'm still not sure how to go about bulk fermentation, logistically, when I don't want to leave it out but want to slow it down enough in the case of when I am splitting this between days because I don't want to stay up all night. Is it OK to remove the dough from the fridge during bulk fermentation in hopes of expediting the process of fermentation? And if so, how much longer do I let it rest at room temp? I know they say it varies by environment but I also find it odd that there are still general time ranges given (like 4-6 hours at room temp and as long as 8-24 hours in the fridge lol).

Did I not use enough starter? I had about 160-170grams of starter to 800g~ of flour.

The loafs came out fairly decent but still lacking in height:




Something I can help with! Small book incoming, as there are a lot of variables I don't know and want to address.

Are you intending this sourdough to be 10% starter?  Because, while 160-170gms of starter is 20% of the flour weight, starter is measured by what weight of the flour is in the starter. So if you're looking for a total of 800 grams of flour, for 20% in the starter, you'd have 640g of dry flour and 320g of starter (assuming your starter is equal parts flour and water).  640 + (320/2) = 800g flour total in your recipe.  Lower amounts of starter are perfectly reasonable, if you are willing to let them sit for longer. That could be part of the issue, that it did not bulk ferment long enough with that amount of starter. Generally, lower starter amounts will lend to a greater sour flavor (seems counterintuitive, I know).

How active is your starter?  Is there liquid sitting on top when you use it?  If so, it is hungry and needs better feeding before using it as your sole leavener in a loaf.  I save my discard for all kinds of things that I will leaven by other means (or that don't require leavening), but for sourdough loaves your starter needs to be strong and active.

I see that you did several stretch and folds, but did you perform a windowpane test before moving to bulk ferment?  It's important that your gluten development is solid in order to see the maximum rise.  If you do your stretch and folds but don't get a good windowpane (light visible through thinly stretched dough without the dough tearing), it's okay to wait another 30 mins and stretch and fold again until you do get a windowpane.

I almost always will bulk ferment at room temp (generally for 3-5 hours with 20% starter), then shape and retard the loaf (put it in the fridge overnight).  I have had success with overnight fridge bulk fermentation, then letting it sit out for about an hour, then shaping and returning to the fridge for 2-3 hours before baking.  The dough will tell you when it's ready to be shaped.  If you poke it gently and it springs back some, but not completely, bulk fermentation is done.  It can be really hard at first to figure it out, and I had a lot of short dense loaves before I had even one good one.

Additional flavor component is salt; what is your salt percentage? I go with 1.5-2% which seems to be the general recommendation. Less is a little flaccid; more can be overwhelming. But the right amount of salt will make the loaf sing.

And lastly, at least for now, letting your loaf sit even after baking deepens the sour flavor if left at room temp.  When it takes me a few days to get through a loaf, the sourness comes out more later on.  And I don't see much deterioration in the softness/moisture of the bread over that length of time. 

Hopefully some of that is helpful to you!


Thanks for all the tips! I was sort of 'winging' it off memory but referencing the recipe at https://alexandracooks.com/2019/11/07/easy-whole-wheat-ish-sourdough-bread/ as a general guideline. I'm bad and lazy when it comes to measuring out, so need to get better at that. But you are right in that I probably used too much starter and didn't let the dough bulk ferment for a long enough time.

My starter has been relatively active. Today I took some out of the reserves in the fridge for a new batch (about 60g or so) then added equal parts water/flour to it and let it sit - it's now around 5pm and it hasn't quite yet doubled but is not far off. With the last loaves, I fed the starter like this twice before using it for that batch.

With the stretch and folds, I only did the windowpane test after bulk fermenting - I *think* it passed. But sounds like this test should be done after the stretch and folds, so I'll keep that in mind next time.

With 10% starter, how long would you bulk ferment for at room temp? I'll try your method of doing that then shaping and putting the fridge. Do you find that the second shaping and refrigeration helps the loaf maintain its shape better and is that why you do that? And do you bake the loaf straight out of the fridge from that point?

With the salt this time, I think I cut it short on the overall amount - that would also explain why it's slightly bland. I started putting salt in then lost count because I didn't tare the scale lol. I knew I was under - probably by several grams.

And as far as the sourness coming out - you're right, I think I noticed that after going through these loaves as the days have passed. Kinda like coffee after it's first roasted!

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #465 on: June 15, 2020, 12:54:24 AM »
Just made another batch today. Quick Q but what does it typically mean if my loaf is lacking in flavor? After initially mixing and letting sit for 30 minutes, I did 4 folds 30 mins apart across 2 hours before sticking it in the fridge overnight for about 8-9 hours to bulk ferment. Did I not allow it to bulk ferment for long enough? I'm still not sure how to go about bulk fermentation, logistically, when I don't want to leave it out but want to slow it down enough in the case of when I am splitting this between days because I don't want to stay up all night. Is it OK to remove the dough from the fridge during bulk fermentation in hopes of expediting the process of fermentation? And if so, how much longer do I let it rest at room temp? I know they say it varies by environment but I also find it odd that there are still general time ranges given (like 4-6 hours at room temp and as long as 8-24 hours in the fridge lol).

Did I not use enough starter? I had about 160-170grams of starter to 800g~ of flour.

The loafs came out fairly decent but still lacking in height:




Something I can help with! Small book incoming, as there are a lot of variables I don't know and want to address.

Are you intending this sourdough to be 10% starter?  Because, while 160-170gms of starter is 20% of the flour weight, starter is measured by what weight of the flour is in the starter. So if you're looking for a total of 800 grams of flour, for 20% in the starter, you'd have 640g of dry flour and 320g of starter (assuming your starter is equal parts flour and water).  640 + (320/2) = 800g flour total in your recipe.  Lower amounts of starter are perfectly reasonable, if you are willing to let them sit for longer. That could be part of the issue, that it did not bulk ferment long enough with that amount of starter. Generally, lower starter amounts will lend to a greater sour flavor (seems counterintuitive, I know).

How active is your starter?  Is there liquid sitting on top when you use it?  If so, it is hungry and needs better feeding before using it as your sole leavener in a loaf.  I save my discard for all kinds of things that I will leaven by other means (or that don't require leavening), but for sourdough loaves your starter needs to be strong and active.

I see that you did several stretch and folds, but did you perform a windowpane test before moving to bulk ferment?  It's important that your gluten development is solid in order to see the maximum rise.  If you do your stretch and folds but don't get a good windowpane (light visible through thinly stretched dough without the dough tearing), it's okay to wait another 30 mins and stretch and fold again until you do get a windowpane.

I almost always will bulk ferment at room temp (generally for 3-5 hours with 20% starter), then shape and retard the loaf (put it in the fridge overnight).  I have had success with overnight fridge bulk fermentation, then letting it sit out for about an hour, then shaping and returning to the fridge for 2-3 hours before baking.  The dough will tell you when it's ready to be shaped.  If you poke it gently and it springs back some, but not completely, bulk fermentation is done.  It can be really hard at first to figure it out, and I had a lot of short dense loaves before I had even one good one.

Additional flavor component is salt; what is your salt percentage? I go with 1.5-2% which seems to be the general recommendation. Less is a little flaccid; more can be overwhelming. But the right amount of salt will make the loaf sing.

And lastly, at least for now, letting your loaf sit even after baking deepens the sour flavor if left at room temp.  When it takes me a few days to get through a loaf, the sourness comes out more later on.  And I don't see much deterioration in the softness/moisture of the bread over that length of time. 

Hopefully some of that is helpful to you!


Thanks for all the tips! I was sort of 'winging' it off memory but referencing the recipe at https://alexandracooks.com/2019/11/07/easy-whole-wheat-ish-sourdough-bread/ as a general guideline. I'm bad and lazy when it comes to measuring out, so need to get better at that. But you are right in that I probably used too much starter and didn't let the dough bulk ferment for a long enough time.

My starter has been relatively active. Today I took some out of the reserves in the fridge for a new batch (about 60g or so) then added equal parts water/flour to it and let it sit - it's now around 5pm and it hasn't quite yet doubled but is not far off. With the last loaves, I fed the starter like this twice before using it for that batch.

With the stretch and folds, I only did the windowpane test after bulk fermenting - I *think* it passed. But sounds like this test should be done after the stretch and folds, so I'll keep that in mind next time.

With 10% starter, how long would you bulk ferment for at room temp? I'll try your method of doing that then shaping and putting the fridge. Do you find that the second shaping and refrigeration helps the loaf maintain its shape better and is that why you do that? And do you bake the loaf straight out of the fridge from that point?

With the salt this time, I think I cut it short on the overall amount - that would also explain why it's slightly bland. I started putting salt in then lost count because I didn't tare the scale lol. I knew I was under - probably by several grams.

And as far as the sourness coming out - you're right, I think I noticed that after going through these loaves as the days have passed. Kinda like coffee after it's first roasted!

OK - I'm super frustrated right now. Followed Alexandria's recipe (100g starter, 300g water, 9g salt, and 400g flour) and am stuck at the shaping part AGAIN.
I ended up waiting about 4 hours or so *after* the stretch and folds for the dough to bulk ferment before shaping. The windowpane development isn't great - I'm finding the dough tearing. Also, the dough is still sticky. Has it not bulk fermented enough? Or is it over fermented? My kitchen is at 76F at 40% humidity. I just scooped the mess up into a bowl and threw it in the fridge. At this point I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to do.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 01:01:16 AM by jeromedawg »

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #466 on: June 15, 2020, 07:14:30 AM »
That still sounds quite wet.  I think my recipe is 100g starter, 10g salt, 325g water (can increase up to 375g for high hydration though in practice I don't have the skills to get a good loaf out of it that wet) and 500g flour.  Maybe start lower hydration next time and then if that goes well increase it incrementally until you get a mix that works for you/your house/temperature/humidity etc?

One time I ended up with completely sticky unmanageable dough (probably at the higher end of the water scale above) I ended up giving it a quite thorough knead to develop the gluten and then giving it a quick final prove to get a bit of air back in.  I'm sure it's not at all a recommended method and obviously "you wouldn't start from there" but I did actually get an edible loaf, so it was a non-disaster, which at that point I settled for!

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #467 on: June 15, 2020, 08:20:12 AM »
@jeromedawg

Give this recipe a go to get your confidence back (this is from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVfJTGpXnU&list=PLBM6Q9may6S1JWGSZeAVmVu1x7cf3AL2w with some slight variations I've made during baking).  Dough will be sticky but forms up nice.

800 g flour (11 - 13 % protein level)
460 mL tepid water
320 g starter (assuming you made your starter 50/50)
10 g salt (I usually thumb this back a bit)

Combine all.  Turn onto work surface (I use a very (very) light dusting of flour) and knead until it passes window pane test.  Approx 8 - 12 mins

Let rest for 3 hours

Divide into two (or four) equal sized portions.  Shape into boules, batards, etc.

Let rise another 3 hours or put in refrigerator over night (this is what I do)

Pre heat oven to 450F.

If you are using a dutch oven, place in oven to preheat it.  If baking stone, preheat as well.  You can bake on a cookie sheet as well (I use cookie sheets and don't bother to preheat)

If you are going to use cookie sheets, gently arrange each of your doughs onto the sheets (if you are making two loaves, one per sheet; if four, two per sheet).  Score the dough to your preferred pattern.

If 2 loaves, bake between 30 and 35 mins.  If 4 loaves, bake between 25 - 30 mins.  Loaf will sound hollow when done.

Try to let cool before cutting ..... good luck with that ....


 

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #468 on: June 15, 2020, 10:14:34 AM »
That still sounds quite wet.  I think my recipe is 100g starter, 10g salt, 325g water (can increase up to 375g for high hydration though in practice I don't have the skills to get a good loaf out of it that wet) and 500g flour.  Maybe start lower hydration next time and then if that goes well increase it incrementally until you get a mix that works for you/your house/temperature/humidity etc?

One time I ended up with completely sticky unmanageable dough (probably at the higher end of the water scale above) I ended up giving it a quite thorough knead to develop the gluten and then giving it a quick final prove to get a bit of air back in.  I'm sure it's not at all a recommended method and obviously "you wouldn't start from there" but I did actually get an edible loaf, so it was a non-disaster, which at that point I settled for!


Those were my exact starting proportions!
 
This gives me a dough that is kneadable. I think a lot of the internet forgets about all of the initial trial and error. I think that once you know what you're doing and can 'read' your starter and dough the no-knead doughs have a lot going for them, but until then, those that allow you to work the dough and knead by hand (lower hydration) seem more forgiving. No matter how hard bloggers try, a ton of embedded videos don't really replace getting to know what things feel like, your starter, and your surroundings for yourself.

I found with the 65% hydration I could skip stretch and fold and bulk ferment altogether to produce an easy 'beginner' loaf. Just knead until windowpane test passes, rest, shape, proof and bake.
I've since added in the other steps and they've definitely given me improved results, but they're not really necessary if your aim is to create easy, tasty bread

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #469 on: June 15, 2020, 10:48:06 AM »
Very true @CrabbitDutchie !

I went on a sourdough course about 5 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that despite being a complete beginner I made "better" bread then BUT after a couple of periods of not making bread and generally getting into bad habits, I'd rather aim for lower hydration and come out with something reliably very nice every time, rather than aiming for something extraordinary.

If increased practice/experience doesn't get me to where I want to be I may treat myself to another course when we're out of Covid-zone!  I feel like I would get a lot more out of it now having actually made a lot of bread, had a lot of trial and error, etc.

CrabbitDutchie

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #470 on: June 16, 2020, 12:14:01 PM »
Very true @CrabbitDutchie !

I went on a sourdough course about 5 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that despite being a complete beginner I made "better" bread then BUT after a couple of periods of not making bread and generally getting into bad habits, I'd rather aim for lower hydration and come out with something reliably very nice every time, rather than aiming for something extraordinary.

If increased practice/experience doesn't get me to where I want to be I may treat myself to another course when we're out of Covid-zone!  I feel like I would get a lot more out of it now having actually made a lot of bread, had a lot of trial and error, etc.

That's something I've been considering doing as well. Think it would be worth it for a few ah ha moments. In the meantime on the whole I'm happy with the bread I'm baking. It's by no means perfect, but I'd now bring it out to share with people without being embarrassed by my efforts.

chicagomeg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #471 on: June 16, 2020, 02:39:24 PM »
I've been following a baking account in Instagram called Artisan Bryan. If you're interested in baking lessons, he has some interesting (relatively affordable, at home) offerings on Patreon as well: https://www.patreon.com/artisanbryan

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #472 on: June 20, 2020, 01:36:15 AM »
Yesterday, I noticed that my starter has died. I have moved houses and a week before I moved the starter, I had moved the flour. And after moving the starter, I was too busy to think of feeding it for another week. When I remembered, it smelled very alcoholic and the water on top was blackish instead of the usual colourless/yellowish. So I ditched it and will make a new one when I feel the need for it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 02:48:37 AM by Linea_Norway »

CrabbitDutchie

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #473 on: June 23, 2020, 12:17:02 PM »
@Linea_Norway that's a shame. Did you try feeding it to see?

made muffins this weekend - recipe on page 1 of this thread. Highly recommended!



Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #474 on: June 24, 2020, 03:14:49 AM »
@CrabbitDutchie no, it looked and smelled so badly that I don't want to consume it anymore.

geekette

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #475 on: July 03, 2020, 04:22:45 PM »
I’m still baking sourdough (and crackers - too many crackers).

I’m pretty happy with my latest low hydration boule, and my slicing is getting better, too, as long as I cut the boule in half before I slice.


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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #476 on: September 26, 2020, 06:29:56 AM »

 Anyway, here's an easy recipe for sourdough pancakes.  The last time I made it, I topped it with grilled peaches and blueberries. :)  http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/SourdoughPancakes.htm

I finally got around to making the sourdough pancakes from this recipe this morning. Turned our very nice. Only thing I would do differently is halve the recipe as it made a bit too much for just two of us (I think we ended up with 14 ranging in size from 5" to 7" diameter).

Will def put this on the weekend breakfast rotation.

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #477 on: October 10, 2020, 04:11:19 AM »
I made a new sourdough starter last week and baked two breads. Today I am making two more.

After making a lot of sourdough breads earlier this year and having a learning process, I am now using this method:
- 1000 gram flour, existing of 50% plain white wheat flower, often 10% whole wheat grains and the rest finely or roughly ground wholegrain wheat and often 10% rye. Sometimes I use barley as well.
- 22 gram salt
- 700-800 ml/gram handwarm water
- Most of my starter, today 250 grams. The starter was taken out of the fridge and fed half a day before.

I mixed the dry ingredients well before adding the starter and the water. I use a solid handmixer to mix quite long until the dough is a thick, moist mass. Then I leave it in the bowl which is covered with plastic foil. Then I just leave it alone, no stretching and folding. After many hours the dough has poofed and fills the bowl. Then I find my two glass bread forms. I line them with a sheet of grease-free paper/baking paper. Then comes the most difficult part, dividing the dough into two halfs and dropping the halfs into each bread form. Difficult because the dough prefers to hang together. When done, I sprinkle some fine white flour on top of the doughs and cover the bread forms with plastic sheet. Ideally I cut with a sharp knife through the middle, but sometimes I forget and if the dough is moust enough, it doesn't seem to matter. Then I wait again until they have poofed a lot and then I put them in the oven. Like suggested by others, 15 minutes on 250C and 30 minutes on 210C. Then I cool them on a rack, preferably outside the form and outside the paper, so that any moist can escape.

This is a method with little fuss. I found the stretching and folding, as well as the shaping too much hassle with my breads. That was only easy that one time I made a plain white pizza dough. With wholegrain bread though, I never had a successful non-messy stretching action. Also, when shaping the dough, I needed to add so much flour, that it became a too solid bread. My method is inspired by the no-kneading bread culture. Although I do a lot of kneading in the beginning. But as soon as the long gluten chains have formed, I stop kneading. It works out just fine.

Today I am making breads with only wheat, again a mix of 50% white flour and 10% whole grains. The rest is finely ground wholegrain wheat flower. I am curious how that will taste compared to the rye that I usually add.

I can do the whole process in one day. It certainly helps that I don't work anymore and don't need to go to bed around 10 pm, like I used to.

windytrail

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #478 on: November 10, 2020, 04:30:41 PM »
Hi all,

Great looking breads everyone! I've been practicing baking whole wheat sourdough since the pandemic began and am finally started to feel confident about the loafs. Image of today's bake is attached.

This recipe was about 70% whole wheat (high protein), 30% regular white flour.

I used the recipe here: https://www.homemadefoodjunkie.com/beginner-whole-wheat-artisan-sourdough-bread/. There is also an accompanying video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vhjqwDPkm0&feature=youtu.be. It takes a bit longer than some other recipes but is well worth the effort. 

The above recipe closely follows the method explained in the book Tartine Bread by Chad Robertson. The stretch and fold is performed five times over the course of two and a half hours.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #479 on: November 10, 2020, 04:33:35 PM »
Wow, my wholemeals never rise that much: I'm going to give that recipe a try!  Looks fabulous!

Poundwise

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #480 on: November 13, 2020, 04:47:17 PM »
Any tips for getting old sourdough out of the glass mason jar? I didn't bake over the summer as it got too hot, so I had the starter sitting in the fridge, forgot about it, and now it has kind of fossilized. I tried to pry it out with a knife, but I couldn't make it budge. I may have to just throw out the jar and start completely over.

GuitarStv

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #481 on: November 13, 2020, 05:06:46 PM »
Any tips for getting old sourdough out of the glass mason jar? I didn't bake over the summer as it got too hot, so I had the starter sitting in the fridge, forgot about it, and now it has kind of fossilized. I tried to pry it out with a knife, but I couldn't make it budge. I may have to just throw out the jar and start completely over.

Best bet would be a long time soaking in very hot water.

monarda

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #482 on: November 13, 2020, 07:58:33 PM »
Fun! I didn't know this thread existed. I have two sourdough starters, each has a slightly different personality. I keep about 50g in the fridge and feed them the same way, about 50-50 white/wheat flour.

Each week I make sourdough bagels, modified from the recipe from littlespoonfarm.com
I feed to wake up the starter on Thursday, feed again on Friday AM to 300g total, and once nice and poofy I use 250g in the recipe (remainder back to the jar), with 510g water, 20g salt, 80g sugar, then 1000g mixture of flours, usually 100g oatmeal, 150g whole wheat flour, remaining 750g white or bread flour. But an assortment of flour mixtures have always worked great. Then I let this rise, with a couple of folds throughout Friday evening, then overnight (all at room temp) for a total of 20-24 hours bulk rise. Saturday I preshape 80-85g balls, let rise for another hour, then poke holes to form bagels, boil 2' each side in molasses/salted water, and bake. Makes usually 21 bagels. Each week I play around with the temperature and baking time for the desired texture and crust, currently I'm liking 385F for about 25-30 minutes.

Poundwise

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #483 on: November 13, 2020, 08:58:03 PM »
Any tips for getting old sourdough out of the glass mason jar? I didn't bake over the summer as it got too hot, so I had the starter sitting in the fridge, forgot about it, and now it has kind of fossilized. I tried to pry it out with a knife, but I couldn't make it budge. I may have to just throw out the jar and start completely over.

Best bet would be a long time soaking in very hot water.

Thanks, I guess it will come down to that. The starter is gross and moldy on top, but I guess I'll put it outside instead of in the sink, otherwise I'll have to deal with constant yells of horror from my family.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #484 on: December 03, 2020, 05:12:51 PM »
Finally managed a pretty one again!  Despite forgetting it in the fridge so giving it something like an 18 hour final rise (oops) the crumb is not too bad I think (it's about 50/50 wholemeal/white), and very tasty!

Calvin

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #485 on: December 07, 2020, 08:08:22 PM »
Just found this thread. I'll make sure to follow!

This is one of my favorite sourdough recipes:
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/vermont-sourdough-recipe

I'll have to restart my sourdough starter. I bake a lot, but I'll usually either do a straight dough or start a pre-ferment/poolish the night before.

monarda

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #486 on: December 08, 2020, 07:27:43 AM »
I've been making these sourdough brownies pretty  regularly. So good!  A half recipe is plenty, I've found.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #487 on: August 26, 2021, 07:03:04 AM »
It looks like every 6 months I get a pretty loaf, so I'm going to try to wake up the thread by posting it!  Bit of a big air bubble at the top, but pretty, and for once didn't stick to the basket and got a decent score/crack!

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Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #488 on: September 08, 2021, 01:28:34 AM »
After having made sourdough breads regularly for the past 1,5 year I have a question.

My bread tastes good and has enough air bubbles. It has a core temperature of 92-95 C, which should mean that it is done.

I bake the bread in 2 glass containers, covered with paper baking sheets. I put a small bowl with boiling water in the oven when I put in the breads. When done, take immediately them out of the glass containers, tear off the baking sheets and let them cool down on a metal rack.

When I started with sourdough, I used very high temperatures. DH complained that the crust was too hard for his taste, so I have reduced tenperatures to 15 minutes on 220 C, followed by 30 minutes on 190 C. The core temperature is still 92 to 95 C and the bread is still the same.

The bread looks like it is moist. Also, if I stick in a thermometer, the thermometer does not come out clean, but something sticks to it. When baking cake, that is a trick of checking if a cake is done.
Is this moist a result of baking a bread in a glass container?
Is it the result of the boiling water that was added to the oven?
Do your breads seem humid?
Do I need to bake it longer and check for a higher core temperature?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 03:12:34 AM by Linea_Norway »

GuitarStv

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #489 on: September 08, 2021, 07:12:28 AM »
I've never checked internal temperature of bread.  If it's not done enough I'll just cook it for another few minutes the next time.

If you put the bread in a plastic bag or something that prevents moisture from escaping overnight, it won't be anywhere near as crusty the next day - maybe something to try for your crybaby husband, who appears to have been raised on wonderbread.  :P

chaskavitch

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #490 on: September 08, 2021, 07:49:45 AM »
I've been baking my bread in a dutch oven with a lid, and only taking the lid off for the last 5 or 10 minutes of baking.  That makes the top crust less thick, as far as I can tell, but still gives you some crunch.  I also try to get to 95-96C (204F).  Not sure why your bread is moist and sticky, though, it seems odd if it's getting up to temp and you haven't changed your baking ratios.

monarda

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #491 on: September 08, 2021, 08:05:20 AM »
I like a moderately crisp crust, I bake it halfway in the dutch oven 425F for ~20 mins, then turn down to 390F and bake the rest of the way with the lid open (~15 more minutes).  So very similar to what @Linea_Norway does. The middle is slightly moist when I take it out of the oven, with internal temperature 95C (but thermometer does come out clean), and by the time it cools it's not gummy at all.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #492 on: September 08, 2021, 08:08:19 AM »
I also use a Dutch oven (a big iron casserole dish but I've also used Pyrex and it was fine).  I do 25 mins lid on at 220 fan, then 25 mins lid off at 200 fan.  If I want a less crusty crust I just leave the lid on longer.

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Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #493 on: September 08, 2021, 11:54:22 AM »
I think with a dutch oven with lid on, you simulate having water in the oven. With the lid off, I think you similate baking without water. I could try to first remove the bowl of water when turning down the temperature. And open the oven for a while to slip out damp.

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #494 on: September 11, 2021, 01:09:50 AM »
Home again after a few days on a mountain trip. I will try it out by making a new dough later today, after first temporizing my starter. I will also soak the whole grains in water, so that I won't feel the urge to add big loads of water.

turketron

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #495 on: September 13, 2021, 03:13:24 PM »
After not baking over the summer while it was too hot to have the oven going for very long, I'm reviving my starter that I had sadly neglected in the back of my fridge. I knew it wasn't completely dead but was worried it'd take forever to revive, but it's looking promising after just a few days of feeding every ~8 hours or so! I have some dough proofing in the fridge now and I'll see how it goes when baking tomorrow. Historically I've primarily used AP flour but we have some bread flour on hand right now so I'll see if that makes any difference as well!

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #496 on: May 27, 2022, 11:31:57 AM »
Reviving this thread just like my starter recently hahaha. I have had pretty good success following this simple recipe btw:

https://hostessatheart.com/sourdough-bread-recipe/

I used 100G of whole wheat flour mixed with 400g of 'bread' flour (the high protein flour at TJs) instead of the 500g of bread flour the recipe calls for.
I used our Le Creuset Doufeu to bake btw

Results:

Loaf #1 - I proofed the dough in the oven overnight before baking in the AM. No real issues with this except I baked it too high at 475F and glossed over the part of the recipe that says to lower the heat to 425F hahaha. It worked out fine but was a bit more 'gummy' and dense. Pretty good rise and crumb though, especially in comparison to my prior attempts from a couple years back.




Loaf #2 - I tried cold proofing this in the fridge overnight after a shorter 3-4hr bulk ferment on the counter/oven. It looked great in the fridge except I didn't flour/dust the banneton well enough so removing it was a disaster. I had to refold/reshape the dough, dust the banneton better, and let it sit in the banneton for about 30 mins before placing it in the oven. The rise on this wasn't as good as the first (which I attribute to the banneton disaster and having to re-shape at the last hour) but I think the cold proof added a bit more fermentation as this loaf is slightly more sour.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 11:38:47 AM by jeromedawg »

monarda

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #497 on: May 27, 2022, 12:56:39 PM »
Thanks for reviving!
You all might like this book that a friend of mine wrote.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #498 on: May 30, 2022, 03:32:50 PM »
They both look great!  My banneton sticking disasters have been waaaay uglier than that, so I think it was a good idea to do the reshaping - might try that next time mine sticks...

GuitarStv

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #499 on: May 30, 2022, 03:33:31 PM »
Those do look great!