Author Topic: The Barnhouse Transformation  (Read 32693 times)

Prospector

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #350 on: February 23, 2017, 10:13:27 AM »
I agree that structurally and functionally the cupboards are fine.

I also agree that they need to be stripped before repainting.

To strip them will take as long as replacing them.
To just replace doors is the longest time line.  They are not standard sizes, and would have to be custom made.
The drawers are literally falling apart and have to be replaced regardless.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #351 on: February 23, 2017, 10:18:34 AM »
Chemical paint strippers can be pretty fast - on TV at least.

Of course , they are nasty chemicals, etc....

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #352 on: February 23, 2017, 10:30:18 AM »
It feels like you've had plenty of scope creep in this place - but it's tough to do all this yourself on weekends only...

My thoughts exactly. At some point you have to wonder how many months rent could be coming in to cover some additional help on the repairs.

Full Disclosure: I own zero rental properties so can't speak from experience; and I think it's awesome you took the plunge into this first one.

But you had  a plan when you bough it right? Was kitchen part of that plan, has any planning you did shot out the window? You were initially talking about an over/under two unit place and now scaled back to one right? How are your numbers for one rent vs two?

As a remodeling professional  I can tell you I would have done 100% of the demo I was doing before I started any re-doing. Now your back tracking.

I don't want to sound like an asshole, but as others have said- You gotta get this thing listed man!


To just replace doors is the longest time line.  They are not standard sizes, and would have to be custom made.


2 sheets of MDF, a table saw and a router. $100 and a day and your done.

I may have a long way to go but I'll have a helluva time getting there!!!

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #353 on: February 23, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »
Don't worry about the corner cupboards - if they are too inconvenient renters either won't use them or will just stuff things in that they never use.

The cupboards look too plain to be dated.  Update the handles, maybe get rid of that scalloped stuff over the sink, strip and paint and call them good.  Find a local joiner to put the drawers back together if you can't do it yourself.  I like the idea of turning the pass-through into a breakfast bar, and new ceiling tiles is a no-brainer.

If I were looking at a major renovation with new cabinets, I'd also be looking at moving doorways.  With the current room layout, all that replacing the existing cabinets would gain for you is space for a full size dishwasher.  Any chance of squeezing a smaller dishwasher into the existing cabinets?  40cm wide integrated dishwashers are pretty common here in the UK, and are frankly just as useful as the full-size ones.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #354 on: February 23, 2017, 10:50:50 AM »
To just replace doors is the longest time line.  They are not standard sizes, and would have to be custom made.


2 sheets of MDF, a table saw and a router. $100 and a day and your done.

This is a good suggestion. My (shitty, falling apart) kitchen has cabinets and doors made out of plywood and the doors are in better condition than the cabinets themselves. If the cabinets weren't disintegrating I'd actually consider just repainting the doors and frames, but instead we're looking at a total gut job and moving walls and such. Don't be me, not for a mere rental.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #355 on: February 24, 2017, 02:01:05 AM »
I can't see any of the pictures :(

As a renter in a different market: a dishwasher is a nice-to-have, not a necessity. Deep corner cupboards I can live with, even though they're annoying.

All I want in a kitchen is for it to be functional, neat and easy to wipe down for my quarterly inspection. Broken stuff puts me right off. Glued neatly back together drawers wouldn't bother me, if I am not having them disintegrate or yanking each time I need to open them. Be consistent with the rest of the house, and don't bother with the breakfast bar if you can get away with tidying the doors and sticking drawers back together.

Why the heck are there tiles on the ceiling? Is this a Canadian thing?! Did I misread something?

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #356 on: February 24, 2017, 05:34:39 AM »
I hadn't even considered cheating on raised panels by running them through the router. I was thinking of buying poplar and making rails and stiles and panels. At my skill level it would be a days long process involving much swearing and inconsistent results.

If I do keep the existing, the drawers would nee to be rebuilt from scratch. They are beyond toast. But building a dozen boxes is manageable.

I realized last night that teh pass thru is exactly the width of a dishwasher plus a 30" microwave/drawer unit. I could take out the wall section beneath the opening, put in two cabinets, and call it done. The cabinet would cost about $200. I need to look at how running plumbing & electric would go. There may be ductwork in the way downstairs.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #357 on: February 24, 2017, 06:41:57 AM »
If the dishwasher is not next to the sink, just skip it altogether. Also, since this is a rental, and the kitchen hasn't been demolished yet, I think you have scope creep. It's hard to draw the line when you've made so many upgrades so far. If it works and isn't too broken, repainting is the way to go. Most renters won't take care of your house very well anyway....my parents had rentals. They got abused on occasion.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #358 on: February 24, 2017, 06:50:08 AM »
I hadn't even considered cheating on raised panels by running them through the router. I was thinking of buying poplar and making rails and stiles and panels. At my skill level it would be a days long process involving much swearing and inconsistent results.

If I do keep the existing, the drawers would nee to be rebuilt from scratch. They are beyond toast. But building a dozen boxes is manageable.

Uhhh building stiles and panels is a PITA. We have an elaborate shop full of specialty tools and I was taught to do it in my teens. Since then I've done it exactly once. Now I use this place :

http://www.lakesidemoulding.com/square-panel-wood-cabinet-door.html

They take a long time though and are not cheap but @ $50 a door there is no way I could do it cheaper based on our billable rate so I just outsource. However I'm typically passing the cost along to a paying customer, not doing it on my own thing.

But regardless, I say based on the level of other finishes MDF would suffice. If years down the road a couple tenants in the kitchen is becoming an issue or your trying to raise the rent or something you could always upgrade cabinets/kitchen complete then.

Building the drawer boxes isn't too bad as you say, sometimes getting the new tracks/hardware in is a pin. I'm guessing if they are as bad as you say your thinking new glides/hardware right? If so you can usually source them from a n online woodworking place cheaper than in a store.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #359 on: February 24, 2017, 06:52:13 AM »
As has been discussed to death on Frugal Paragon's journal, sometimes a person just needs new drawers.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #360 on: February 24, 2017, 07:33:23 AM »
If the dishwasher is not next to the sink, just skip it altogether. Also, since this is a rental, and the kitchen hasn't been demolished yet, I think you have scope creep. It's hard to draw the line when you've made so many upgrades so far. If it works and isn't too broken, repainting is the way to go. Most renters won't take care of your house very well anyway....my parents had rentals. They got abused on occasion.

Dishwasher would be opposite the sink. I think that's close enough in a galley layout? In the attached plan you can see where I would insert the DW/Microwave. There is already electric there (they put a fluorescent light fixture inset in the pass-thru) and the location is directly above the water heater below. Running a lateral to the drain stacks wouldn't interfere with the basement layout. I would need $50 in plumbing supplies, $200 in cabinets, $1000 in appliances, an hour of demolition, two hours of plumbing and an hour to build ikea cabinets and trim them out.

See the drawing below - green is new construction. <Attachments not working. Will upload later>

Everything I've seen about quality of tenants argues that a dishwasher will yield you better people and higher rents than any other similarly priced improvement you can make. I'll post the question in the real estate thread, but at this point I think I'm convinced in what direction I'll go.

You do have me pretty much sold on MDF cabinet doors though. How do you make them paintable/prevent the fibres from fuzzing up?
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #361 on: February 24, 2017, 08:19:26 AM »
So this thread is pretty interesting for pro-con dishwasher attitude. I never realized this was that big of a deal to so many folks:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/renting/953014-how-important-dishwasher-5.html


Seems like a pretty even split between "Must Have" and "Hell No" with mostly landlords on the Hell No side. Considering that we have 4 bedrooms, and are gunning for a family rental, I think laundry and dishwasher are needed. I will discuss it with our PM before forging ahead though.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #362 on: February 24, 2017, 08:28:08 AM »
You found a property manager? nice!

My perspective is that dishwashers break pretty often, compared to, say, stoves. Water is a bitch. I was considering adding a dishwasher to this house before renting it out but have decided against it because it's one more thing to have to repair/ replace.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #363 on: February 24, 2017, 08:56:48 AM »
You found a property manager? nice!

My perspective is that dishwashers break pretty often, compared to, say, stoves. Water is a bitch. I was considering adding a dishwasher to this house before renting it out but have decided against it because it's one more thing to have to repair/ replace.
There is the same problem with washing machines - they get hammered by renters and frequently need repair/replacing.  I did have one in a high end rental where all the kitchen appliances were integrated (hidden behind cupboard doors), but in my current rentals just provide the space and hook-ups - if a potential renter can't afford a few hundred pounds for a basic washing machine do I want them as tenants?
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #364 on: February 25, 2017, 01:05:26 AM »
You found a property manager? nice!

My perspective is that dishwashers break pretty often, compared to, say, stoves. Water is a bitch. I was considering adding a dishwasher to this house before renting it out but have decided against it because it's one more thing to have to repair/ replace.
There is the same problem with washing machines - they get hammered by renters and frequently need repair/replacing.  I did have one in a high end rental where all the kitchen appliances were integrated (hidden behind cupboard doors), but in my current rentals just provide the space and hook-ups - if a potential renter can't afford a few hundred pounds for a basic washing machine do I want them as tenants?
Again, different market, but here it's standard to have a neat and tidy laundry space with hookups available, but renters provide their own washing machine and dryer. We also buy our own fridge.

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #365 on: February 25, 2017, 06:12:20 AM »
So this thread is pretty interesting for pro-con dishwasher attitude. I never realized this was that big of a deal to so many folks:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/renting/953014-how-important-dishwasher-5.html


Seems like a pretty even split between "Must Have" and "Hell No" with mostly landlords on the Hell No side. Considering that we have 4 bedrooms, and are gunning for a family rental, I think laundry and dishwasher are needed. I will discuss it with our PM before forging ahead though.

My parents also believed strongly in having a dishwasher for their rentals.  I just wouldn't worry about them being high end or anything.  Basic is best in a rental.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #366 on: February 25, 2017, 11:01:41 AM »
Just realized I have a lower 30" carcass in the basement from the re-store cabinets that I can use. I can do this for the cost of a dishwasher.

In other news... the upstairs bathroom now has a floor. Time for trim and fixtures.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #367 on: February 25, 2017, 05:10:45 PM »
Momma and the boys are here!! Yay!

Wallpaper is stripped in front entry, and Momma is now stripping in the master bedroom. Master bedroom drywall is mostly done - needs some sanding. Upstairs bathroom looks good.

Tomorrow will be all about putting a floor in the front room.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #368 on: February 25, 2017, 05:50:54 PM »
Momma and the boys are here!! Yay!

Wallpaper is stripped in front entry, and Momma is now stripping in the master bedroom. Master bedroom drywall is mostly done - needs some sanding. Upstairs bathroom looks good.

Tomorrow will be all about putting a floor in the front room.

Ahem - you folks should be more careful on how you phrase things.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #369 on: February 25, 2017, 06:12:20 PM »
Wait, there are cupboards being replaced in more houses? meerkat, snacky, and barnhouse. This leads me to believe I must be careful about this.

I read pages 1, 4 and 8. It looks beautiful

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #370 on: February 25, 2017, 08:10:18 PM »
SO IMPRESSED with everything you've done;  hardly looks like the same place.
Personally, at this point, I'd do the minimal, easiest thing you can do to get the kitchen functional AND GET IT RENTED!
You can upgrade over time between renters.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #371 on: February 25, 2017, 08:17:23 PM »
SO IMPRESSED with everything you've done;  hardly looks like the same place.
Personally, at this point, I'd do the minimal, easiest thing you can do to get the kitchen functional AND GET IT RENTED!
You can upgrade over time between renters.

+1. A big mistake new landlords make is overimproving a property.

You can do upgrades between tenants as needed now.

Looking awesome so far! :)
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #372 on: February 26, 2017, 09:58:11 AM »
Floor...
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #373 on: February 26, 2017, 11:55:29 AM »
Moar floor.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #374 on: February 26, 2017, 12:32:09 PM »
Nice...amazing what a difference a floor makes, and how easy that laminate flooring is to go in.  I like the extra labor you're making use of.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #375 on: February 26, 2017, 07:12:04 PM »
Nice...amazing what a difference a floor makes, and how easy that laminate flooring is to go in.  I like the extra labor you're making use of.

And they were contributing!! Carrying boards and holding and yelling really loud when the boards snapped tight together.

Momma had to leave early for a scouts meeting, so we three guys did the whole floor.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #376 on: February 26, 2017, 07:41:33 PM »
Looks great!
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #377 on: February 26, 2017, 09:52:38 PM »
Momma had to leave early for a scouts meeting, so we three guys did the whole floor.

Isn't it about time she graduated, and maybe the boys started scouts meetings?
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #378 on: February 26, 2017, 10:29:33 PM »
Oh!! I just found this journal and love the renovations and details! There should be more like this around here. Thank you so much for sharing!

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #379 on: February 27, 2017, 09:33:36 AM »
Floor looks great. And way to go on getting your indentured servants dearly loved children to contribute. I loved "helping" my dad when I was their age.

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #380 on: February 27, 2017, 09:36:44 AM »
Yeah - for a while the "help" did consist of building teddy bear beds and boats out of the empty boxes. Then they played stepping stones with the boxes and made a trail around the house.

But also, they did real jobs. It was good!
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #381 on: February 27, 2017, 10:44:30 AM »
I bet the boys loved hanging out at Barnhouse, and helping Mom and Dad.  I was my Dad's gofer starting at about age 6, and learned so many skills without knowing I was learning them.   Every time they see that floor, they can say "we helped lay that".

You're doing a great job - it looks so different than when you started.  Someone very lucky is going to get to rent this house.

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #382 on: February 28, 2017, 12:03:00 PM »
Can I move in?

But only if you put in a dishwasher. Hell to the no am I living without a dishwasher!!!

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #383 on: March 03, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
Heading up again tonight. I'm hoping we can manage to finish off the master bedroom this weeeknd.

If we do, then its just floors and figuring out the kitchen that's left.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #384 on: March 04, 2017, 05:32:59 PM »
Lots grinding, sanding, mudding and mess making today. And a much needed trip to the dump. Cut out heat vents in the living room floor too. Oh yeah, I got the half bathroom working too.

Momma primed ceilings in the hallway and a bedroom and did loads of tidying.

Not a bad day, but it feels like we could have done more.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #385 on: March 04, 2017, 10:50:03 PM »
Sounds like a productive day.

It's counter-intuitive, but those long lists of small jobs really take as much time as the big jobs.  It's partly the physical transition between jobs - moving to a different area, getting out your equipment, setting up - and partly the psychological one - getting into your groove with one task, then having to switch gears.

Must feel good though, to know you're so close to the end!
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #386 on: March 05, 2017, 12:23:51 AM »
Did you decide what to do in the kitchen?

My vote is for #3, if voting is still open.

Be sure to use hidden hinges to really update the look. Buy them and your new handles/knobs here:

99centknobs.com  (This site rocks! You're welcome.)

Whatever you do, don't put those handles back in the same place on the doors. What the hell were they thinking?
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #387 on: March 05, 2017, 05:19:57 AM »
Start to the day... reading storybooks.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #388 on: March 05, 2017, 07:47:14 AM »
Wow.  So so much nicer.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #389 on: March 05, 2017, 09:28:29 AM »
Looking good!

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #390 on: March 07, 2017, 08:38:30 AM »
Kitchen...

This looks pretty do-able for doors. Maybe I'll give it a go with the handful of drawers I've already brought back. If I can get their faces done in evenings after work, then I can bring home the rest of the kitchen and make them up too.

Since those are paint grade MDF, I think a test run with the drawer fronts can be done on the cheap. I already have all the tooling, and I can run the boards through the shaper so I don't even have to mess with router setups or dado blades.

Momma has talked me out of the whole DW/Island thing. Instead, whenever we have our first tenant vacancy I'll redo that side of the main floor.

The only thing I see presenting a challenge is that my compound mitre saws are not performing to spec.

One saw can't be made to hold square since its fence does not align across teh blade gap (one side is out of alignment to the other) - I bought it as a factory second for $75 a while back thinking I was clever. I have scrapped many boards with it, but at least I have a good excuse. It is still good for flooring where end cuts are hidden by baseboard.

The other has become increasingly dangerous to run over the past year -  I was going to throw it out when the brake failed but then I decided to just hang on to it a year longer... now it not only has no brake, its bearings have also given out leading to some pretty exciting blade wobble, and the switch has failed in the on position meaning that sometimes it just keeps running until you unplug it and beat on it. There have been a couple times when this was "inconvenient."  The blade wobble might be an issue for a job as precise as cabinetry though.

I was looking at some of the saw deals at Christmas ($400 for a 10" dewalt SCMS with a stand) but balked. Today those deals are nowhere to be found.

I suppose I could just build a sled to run through the saw and save the expense and space of more tools. Am I justifying an expense here?
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snacky

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #391 on: March 07, 2017, 09:25:44 AM »
Rent a saw. Make it as simple (and safe!) as possible.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #392 on: March 07, 2017, 09:30:03 AM »
With your:
Focus on traffic safety; and,
Having your kids there during reno

I am surprised you are using these unsafe tools. I agree with renting what you need if that is an economical option. Or borrow it from a friend. Or buy it!

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Freckles

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #393 on: March 07, 2017, 10:59:37 AM »
Shaker style cabinet doors are awesome. I have no comment on the making of them because I know nothing about that. But I know what looks good, and shaker looks good. Go for it. But with safe tools, please.

couponvan

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #394 on: March 07, 2017, 12:39:17 PM »
The cost of time v money may not be worth the DIY doors, especially if it means you have to buy an expensive saw.

Some shaker styles have flat front drawer fronts and I think that would look just fine for a rental.

http://www.kabinetking.com/js-international-cabinets-dover-kitchen-cabinets.html

This is the brand I have, but this is the Dover style with flat doors.  I ultimately got the Essex style with shaker doors (for a little more money). 

I am just showing this one because it is what I know.  I worry if you DIY it and then paint it you are going to spend a lot of time dealing with the cracking/separating of the paint during expansion and contraction.  It might look great on day 1, but not look good a year later.

For my cabinets, they have a warehouse in IL where I picked mine up - and paid even less than this site advertises.  I feel like they also did drawer fronts for refacing projects.  I did order an extra door for one cabinet in glass (and kept a wood one as well because I wasn't sure I was neat enough to have glass, so I do know I ordered 1 extra door.

You are way more handy that I am, so you will probably be able to make it look awesome.  Painting drawer fronts is a PITA.  Just saying from experience.

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #395 on: March 07, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
The flat drawer faces look fine. I agree. that makes that part mucho easier.

Looking at the listing pics, I have 16 drawer faces to do and 12 doors.

Slitting 1" MDF on the saw in 8' long, 2" strips shouldn't be too bad. Each strip would be 1 door. I could see doing up a whole batch of Rails/Stiles in a night. Then cut panels from 1/4" ply. Assemble over the course of a week and have the doors done in 2 weeks. You're the pro, and I'm the DIY dude, but for $57 a sheet for 1" MDF, I think its a fair gamble.

And the weather is nice now, so I can open the garage doors and set up an outfeed table to catch everything as I go.

I just want my respirator back before messing with MDF - that stuff is nasty.
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Freckles

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #396 on: March 07, 2017, 02:01:27 PM »
http://www.kabinetking.com/js-international-cabinets-dover-kitchen-cabinets.html

Yes to a kitchen with floor to ceiling windows, please. I didn't even notice the cabinets with that feature!

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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #397 on: March 12, 2017, 09:07:47 PM »
HOLY FUCK DID I GET A SHITLOAD DONE THIS WEEKEND!!

Masterbedroom: Finished off drywall, primed, paint finished. Needs fake "crown moulding" to hide massive gaps at ceiling where drywall dude fucked up.

Living Room: finished last row of laminate flooring in living room, got all the baseboards and 1/4-round down. Paint touchups. Needs Plate rail installed and Windows replaced.

Entryway: Drywall hung, taped, mudded. Old Paint sanded off remaining walls. Nail holes filled, plaster cracks ground out, new mud and tape overlay.

Kitchen - removed all drawers and a sample door from each cupboard set (all of them are the same size). Ordered counter tops.

Upstairs - ordered carpet estimate for next weekend found a good carpet for 2.75 psf plus install. If it can be done on a weekday, it saves me some weekend work. Laying laminate would cost 2 weekends up there.

On the kitchen countertop, I'd been having a helluva time finding a kitchen place to work up an estimate, then when I was in the local lumberyard, I asked who supplied the counters for their Ready-to-install kitchen packages. They told me they made them in-house. My 14' U-shaped counter is going to cost me a whopping $450.00. I am pleased as punch. They also tell me they can usually beat HD's price on windows by half with locally made vinyl replacements.. I need to get in touch to see if its true.

Yippee fuckin' skippy kids. It was a good weekend. Pics to follow.

I tell ya what Billie-boy, if I can maintain this pace the whole frickin' place will be rent-ready in a couple weeks.
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #398 on: March 12, 2017, 10:41:36 PM »
Pics or it didn't happen?
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Re: The Barnhouse Transformation
« Reply #399 on: March 12, 2017, 11:33:54 PM »
Hey, well done!  Not having your phone meant not being tempted to waste any time online?  Or did you have a phone with you after all?  You said something (in your journal?) about having left it at work, I think.  And I was worried about you working with your wobbly saw all by yourself at Barnhouse, with no way to call 911 if needed.

Anyway, glad you got so much done.  Even more, glad you're still alive...
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