Soldering external pipe myself?

[cdgreg]

I have really taken MMM's post about "If you can't fix something yourself, you can't afford to own it" post to heart, and have been trying to learn to do as much of my own house, car, and mower maintenance as possible.  Last summer, I had a handy man touch up some vintage external copper (or is that brass?) piping that was blasting water from multiple points, and this winter, when it warmed up, I used the external spicket and forgot to turn the water back off from the inside and drain the external spicket when it re-froze.  Stupid me, because I forgot, one of the external pipes burst. 

I've read a few articles and watched a few videos, soldering doesn't seem that hard, I think I can buy the materials and do it....Can I just cut this pipe up a foot higher and solder on a new end and attach the hose bib?  Is there a way to just fill in the 1 inch split in the pipe?  Or, because I cannot easily access 3 of the 4 sides, and because it is surrounded by wood and old paint should I find someone with more experience and let them take care of it so I do not start a large fire? 

Pictures attached, thank you!

[Midwest]

Plenty of room. I would use a fireproof blanket and/or some ceramic tile to keep the wood from catching on fire.  Practice a little first.

[CowboyAndIndian]

I would suggest cutting it out the bad piece and replacing it.

Soldering is very easy as long as you remember to clean the surfaces thoroughly. Look at some videos on the web.

As Midwest suggested, make sure you put something behind the joint being soldered so that the wood at the back does not catch fire.

[Midwest]

and keep some water and/or a fire extinguisher handy. 

[paddedhat]

Plenty of room. I would use a fireproof blanket and/or some ceramic tile to keep the wood from catching on fire.  Practice a little first.

Um, no.  You don't attempt to fill a split, that's like repairing a car tire with chewing gum.

If you want to do it right, the pipe gets cut and patched with a coupling. First, you need a mini-pipe cutter. ($6 at Harbor Freight) to cut the pipe above and below the split. Next you sand the two pieces of pipe that you are going to patch back together. There is special sandpaper for this, but 120 grit plain old paper works fine, sand each end until the first inch is shiny and new. Now you need a 1/2" copper pipe coupling. Every hardware store and big box home store will have one. Wrap the sandpaper around your finger and sand the inside of the coupling until it is shiny. Now you need flux, soldier, and a propane torch. Apply the flux to the first 1/2" of each end of the pipe, and push them into the coupling.

Now, what comes next can be the most frustrating thing you have ever done, with you throwing the the torch across the yard and giving up, or a piece of cake. First, the pipe has to be dry as a ghost fart. If there is water inside the pipe you will never get a good soldier joint.  So keep the inside valve off, and shake the pipe to make sure it's dry. Next you need to put a block of scrap wood behind the pipe and temporarily pry it away from the wall. You can't soldier it tight to the wall since you will set it on fire. Now you need to put a prop under the whole assembly, even if it's holding together after pushed it into the coupling. When the flux heats up and it's ready to melt the soldier, if you don't have a prop pushing everything tight, it will fall apart, get dirty and screw everything up. Now it's time to soldier. first you are working with the very tip of the flame coming out of the torch. Adjust the flame until it has a nice tight pointed flame extending about 2" from the end of the nozzle. Now you heat one side of the coupling and apply soldier directly across from the flame tip. You lay the soldier into the coupling joint when everything is hot enough, and magically it will suck into the joint, filling the joint 100% and leaving a nice bead of soldier on the end of the coupling. Believe it or not it only takes 1/2 to 3/4" worth of soldier to perform this magic. Once you do both sides of the coupling, take a damp rag and wipe the joint. That's it. And if you are going to give it a go, take a few minutes to watch a few videos of he process. Good luck.

[sokoloff]

What's been said above is right, but I'll add a couple things.

I'd buy a new threaded fitting rather than trying to desolder and reuse it, or trying to install two couplings and a piece of new pipe.

If you don't care if the hose bib/spigot is higher, just cut the pipe and solder a new threaded end on (or get a hose bib that solders on directly). If you want the hose bib in the current spot (or lower), now's the time to go buy some additional copper pipe and add it with a coupler.

Before cutting the old pipe with the tubing cutter, sand it with the emory cloth or 120 grit sandpaper. It's a lot easier to get a nice clean sanding job on the pipe before you cut it. Then, fit the coupler, new length of pipe, new hose bib assembly. If you want to assemble the new pipe and hose bib on the bench, you can. Then you only need to assemble the final coupler to the house in the vertical position. Apply flux to the cleaned fitting (solder both sides at once), assemble it all, and you can push the assembly together with a piece of scrap lumber or something to hold everything tight while you solder it up. Open the hose bib (this will let the steam that you'll boil out of the pipe and the flux vapors have a place to go rather than pushing the solder out of the joint to escape). Heat the coupler and the pipe, moving the flame around a bit (1/2" is small enough that this isn't super critical). Don't use the flame to melt the solder. Use the flame to heat the coupler and melt the flux hot enough to melt the solder when it touches the joint.

If you don't give the steam and flux gases a place to go, you'll have a hell of time getting the solder to stay in the joint and make a good seal. If you do, it's easy once you've done a handful of joints. It's hard to make things too clean. Clean it well, use a nice even (but not crazy thick) coating of flux, and a torch with good heat. Wipe the joint with a wet rag while it's still pretty hot, then let everything cool and don't burn yourself.

Big box stores sell a black soldering flame protector, lead-free solder, flux, brushes, and emory cloth. Use lead-free solder (leaded solder is slightly easier to use, but can't be used for drinking water pipes and I don't like having it around and having to keep track of which parts are lead-free and which aren't).

Watch a few videos as suggested earlier.

[cdgreg]

Thank you for the feedback and tips everyone, looking forward to tackling this job and learning the skill.

[paddedhat]

The other soldier free and solid solution would be a "Shark-Bite  1/2 copper x 1/2 female IPS eared elbow" This would involve shortening the pipe,cutting it just above the split, and installing a new block of scrap wood to support the fitting. The Shark-bite snaps on the copper without soldiering, and there are two screw holes in the fitting to secure it to the block. The fitting is $8 at Home Depot.

This may be the best solution to this problem, no learning how to soldier, no needless tools and supplies left over, and the hose bib valve is securely mounted.

[cdgreg]

The other soldier free and solid solution would be a "Shark-Bite  1/2 copper x 1/2 female IPS eared elbow" This would involve shortening the pipe,cutting it just above the split, and installing a new block of scrap wood to support the fitting. The Shark-bite snaps on the copper without soldiering, and there are two screw holes in the fitting to secure it to the block. The fitting is $8 at Home Depot.

This may be the best solution to this problem, no learning how to soldier, no needless tools and supplies left over, and the hose bib valve is securely mounted.

Ohhh, I definitely may try that before spending the money on all of the soldering supplies.  The height of the hose bib is no concern to me, so that may be perfect.  I tried googling your quote and found a huge range of items lol, is this the correct item: http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Brass-90-Degree-Push-to-Connect-x-Female-Pipe-Thread-Drop-Ear-Elbow-U334LFA/202270520 (image attached)

Last question, do I need to clean the pipe thoroughly with an emory cloth/120 grit sand paper before attaching the sharkbite or does it make no difference?

Thank you again

[paddedhat]

That is the part. There are instructions in the bag. Basically the pipe needs to be cut fairly straight and be burr free, so no, it doesn't need to be sanded. Don't forget a small roll of teflon tape for the threads on the valve. With the Teflon, hold the valve with the threads facing you. Start the tape so that it slightly overhangs the opening and wrap clockwise until you have two good wraps on the front 2/3rds of the threads.  Now pull hard to cut the tape and you're good to go. You will need two wrenches, (any kind of pipe, water pump, channellock, adjustable, etc.) To screw the valve and fitting together.

[Drifterrider]

+ 1M on Sharkbites (sometimes called alligator bite).

Best part, they are removal and reusable and come with a little plastic "compression" tool for removal.

You just can't mess it up unless you really try.

Do use a proper pipe cutter to cut the copper (they make them in various sizes and start at just a few dollars).

[Midwest]

Plenty of room. I would use a fireproof blanket and/or some ceramic tile to keep the wood from catching on fire.  Practice a little first.

Um, no.  You don't attempt to fill a split, that's like repairing a car tire with chewing gum.

Paddlehat - I was suggesting he fill the split, just not catch anything on fire.  Question -  what's the lifespan on sharkbites versus copper?  Just curious.

[paddedhat]

Plenty of room. I would use a fireproof blanket and/or some ceramic tile to keep the wood from catching on fire.  Practice a little first.

Um, no.  You don't attempt to fill a split, that's like repairing a car tire with chewing gum.

Paddlehat - I was suggesting he fill the split, just not catch anything on fire.  Question -  what's the lifespan on sharkbites versus copper?  Just curious.

Yea, my reply was about filling the split, regardless of catching anything on fire. The split is due to failure of the seam joint, as a result of expanding ice. The pipe has a seem since copper pipe is actually rolled, and seamed together,  from sheet copper.  The problem with attempting to fill a large void like that is that is that soldier is not designed to fill big gaps, like welding and brazing. When you get soldier hot enough to flow into a joint at a fitting, it's only displacing the liquid flux, and creating a very thin layer, while filling a very small gap. Soldier flows as a liquid, not a material that is easily built up.  As for the Sharkbite question, they are built of brass, copper and have some plastic and stainless steel internal parts. They are listed as a permanent installation and repair method, so essentially that should last indefinitely.

[Midwest]

Plenty of room. I would use a fireproof blanket and/or some ceramic tile to keep the wood from catching on fire.  Practice a little first.

Um, no.  You don't attempt to fill a split, that's like repairing a car tire with chewing gum.

Paddlehat - I was suggesting he fill the split, just not catch anything on fire.  Question -  what's the lifespan on sharkbites versus copper?  Just curious.

Yea, my reply was about filling the split, regardless of catching anything on fire. The split is due to failure of the seam joint, as a result of expanding ice. The pipe has a seem since copper pipe is actually rolled, and seamed together,  from sheet copper.  The problem with attempting to fill a large void like that is that is that soldier is not designed to fill big gaps, like welding and brazing. When you get soldier hot enough to flow into a joint at a fitting, it's only displacing the liquid flux, and creating a very thin layer, while filling a very small gap. Soldier flows as a liquid, not a material that is easily built up.  As for the Sharkbite question, they are built of brass, copper and have some plastic and stainless steel internal parts. They are listed as a permanent installation and repair method, so essentially that should last indefinitely.

Somehow I missed the word NOT in my post (as in don't fill the thing replace pieces).  Regardless thanks for all the free information.  I've learned a lot from you.

Thanks on the info on the sharkbite.  Never used them, but have been curious about their durability.

[sokoloff]

I would have a hard time letting someone put a Sharkbite buried into the wall of my house where a failure would present a problem (leakage and damage to a finished area). If I can repair copper inside my house with soldered joints, I'll do that.

On an outside application like this, there's basically no risk anyway and a Sharkbite is a perfect solution.

[lthenderson]

To fool proof it from forgetting to drain it in the future, you need to get yourself an anti-siphon frost proof spigot. Here in the midwest, they are typically installed through the rimjoist that holds your floor joists between the first floor and the foundation.

https://www.amazon.com/Prier-P-164D12-Quarter-Turn-Anti-Siphon-Outdoor/dp/B0051966QW/

[paddedhat]

To fool proof it from forgetting to drain it in the future, you need to get yourself an anti-siphon frost proof spigot. Here in the midwest, they are typically installed through the rimjoist that holds your floor joists between the first floor and the foundation.

https://www.amazon.com/Prier-P-164D12-Quarter-Turn-Anti-Siphon-Outdoor/dp/B0051966QW/

The only downside to these is that they develop the exact same copper tubing split, INSIDE the wall, if you leave a garden hose attached over the winter. In spring you turn the hose on, and the wall, or basement, is now filling with water. (A lot of these are installed inside wall cavities on slab homes) Not to say that they aren't a great idea, but if you're the type that forgets to drain a hose bib, you're also pretty likely to forget to unscrew the hose too. I used to live in a big vacation home community in snow skiing country. It was nothing to spot homes with the hose attached, in January. Steady work for the local service plumbers come spring.

[lthenderson]

YES, thanks for stating that. The hose still needs to be removed. Also, when soldering, don't forget to pull the valve stem out or you will melt the rubber gasket. I've seen that happen as well.

[cdgreg]

Thanks again everyone for the ideas and advice.  I went the Sharkbite elbow route, and great news, only $18 later we are fixed!  I also now own a small pipe cutter and left over teflon tape for future jobs.  I really appreciate the MMM community and everyone's willingness to share detailed feedback.  Pic attached: It's not the prettiest thing, but it's fully functional, yahoo!  Thank you all again.

[Blindsquirrel]

    Sharkbites rock!  Have replumbed a couple of houses using PEX and it is pretty much as easy as tinker toys.

[paddedhat]

    Sharkbites rock!  Have replumbed a couple of houses using PEX and it is pretty much as easy as tinker toys.

I hope you are describing two game changing products in residential plumbing work, and not saying that you actually replumbed  houses with PEX and all Shark-Bite fittings?  That sounds like a great way to needlessly spend hundreds on fittings, when traditional PEX fittings are a tiny fraction of the price. For example a PVC 1/2" PEX 90* with two clamps is less than $ 0.75,   a 1/2 Shark-Bite style 90* is roughly $4.00 . I use the Watt style cinch clamps and tool. The tool is $26.   I've done thousands of connections and never had a problem, in fact, I wore my first crimpers out. The tools works for 3/8 to 1" clamps, and you do not need a gauge to check your work after each clamp is installed.  Supply. com has great prices on hardware, tools and fittings.

[Blindsquirrel]

  yes, used the normal pex ones for the replumb jobs. They are pretty cheap in bulk on ebay and Amazon vs Lowes.