Author Topic: slate flooring?  (Read 13853 times)

frompa

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slate flooring?
« on: October 10, 2012, 05:28:32 AM »
Anybody here have experience with laying a slate floor? We are thinking of this for our kitchen -- a very high use area in our home -- because the vinyl flooring that's there now has not worn well.  I have pretty normal homeowner skills, by which I mean I can spackle, paint, wallpaper, caulk and use a circular saw (and read how-to books and articles), but no experience with replacing a floor.  I'm hoping we can reasonably expect to do this ourselves, but if your experience tells you otherwise, please let me know.  Thanks for any help you can offer.

velocistar237

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 06:17:46 AM »
From all the DIY shows I've seen, laying tile doesn't look too difficult, but it does look time-intensive.

How does slate flooring cost compare to tile? We'll need to replace our kitchen floor eventually. We have some cracked tiles.

tooqk4u22

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 09:14:31 AM »
Laying slate is not different than laying other tile, however, slate is brittle and can be difficult to cut so make sure you use a wet tile saw with new blade.

Also slate is naturally not even so keep that in mind to be sure you are ok with that.

Jamesqf

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 12:49:19 PM »
Also, you probably need a subfloor that is pretty rigid.  I've never done slate myself, but would expect that the requirements would be the same as what's required for ceramic tile.

plantingourpennies

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 06:08:14 PM »
This is really interesting-I'd never considered slate, but have laid tile with good results. how does slate compare to tile i price?

Welmoed

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 06:20:01 PM »
We had a slate floor in the living room of one of the houses I lived in as a teen. I HATED it. The floor was always cold. This wasn't bad in the summer, but in the winter that room always felt freezing, no matter how high the heat was set. This was over a concrete slab in southern Connecticut. I wouldn't put in a slate floor without some kind of radiant heat system.

Jack

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 11:22:09 PM »
Also slate is naturally not even so keep that in mind to be sure you are ok with that.

I've seen at least one home improvement show (I think it was Holmes on Homes) where the host complained about an uneven slate floor laid by somebody else. He explained that you have to compensate by varying the thickness of the thinset (making it more complicated to install than normal tile).

MooreBonds

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 12:04:45 AM »
Argh! I had typed out a lengthy reply and managed to lose it.

I remodeled my house 3 years ago. I had never touched any projects (tilework, painting, etc.) before. I tiled my kitchen floor first (18" porcelain), then my bathroom floors/walls (12" granite), and lastly the kitchen backsplash (12" marble).A few thoughts from my experience and research:

Porosity and flatness - Is your slate polished smooth or the typical uneven? Depending on its quarry of origin, slate can be relatively porous, so you'll have to make sure you keep it sealed well. However, slate can wear down far more than other types of stone through its natural aging process. Outside, you won't notice it....but walk barefoot in the house, and those little bits of stone might be more noticeable. that, and when it wears down, you lose your sealant protection at that point, so you have to be doubly vigilant about keeping it sealed.

Also, when you spill something and it dries on that unevenness, sometimes it can require a lot more elbow grease to scrub it off compared to a flat/polished surface.

Deflection - Natural stone is more susceptible to fracturing than ceramic or porcelain (porcelain tile is fired in the kiln several times, which makes it more durable than ceramic, and would be better suited to the high traffic/impacts in the kitchen). Because of this, the tile institute recommends you use the L/720 test, which involves different variables: the thickness of your subfloor, your truss depth, space between trusses, and how long the truss span is from the I-beam to the foundation wall. Your existing subfloor could simply be a single 1/2" plywood layer, or it could be thicker. If it's too thin, the tile institute would recommend you put down additional backer board.

Either way, I would recommend installing at least 1/4" backer board right over that existing vinyl (which is what I did) and screwing it into the subfloor with the special screws on 6" centers to help the mortar bond the tile to the underlayment (backer board). Simply slapping mortar onto plywood or an existing vinyl floor will not bond nearly as well, and would likely have issues down the road. (you only need 1/2" backer board when installing on walls, unless your L/720 deflection ratio has too little existing subfloor and too much deflection).

Don't let the above reference freak you out when you find out that your house is nowhere near the requirements for the deflection for natural tile. Typically, unless a home is built specifically for a natural stone floor, they usually don't have enough underlayment installed. As a result, many homes have had natural stone tile installed that don't technically meet the requirement without problem. HOWEVER, there are also many homes where lazy/untruthful contractors have cut corners and installed the tile on floors without adding enough additional underlayment to meet the deflection criteria. Result: cracking grout lines, mortar breaking up, and actual cracked floor tiles. Because of the risks, I would definitely add enough underlayment flooring (if necessary) to get at least somewhat close to the L/720 deflection. (google it for the equation/ratios to plug your numbers into).


Also, because of the wear concern mentioned above, I would recommend a different natural tile. I love granite, and you can actually get some variety (not nearly as much variety in tile as you can in countertops), but might need to search around on-line for some great deals even after paying shipping. Just remember back to the earth science days when you learned that granite is the second hardest mineral on Moh's scale of hardness after diamonds, so you'll need a new diamond-tipped blade to cut the tile. (and forget about drilling holes in it to mount things, unless it's a diamond-tipped or tungsten carbide-tipped bit). And some granites (like black) are naturally non-pourous, so you don't have to be as worried about things staining it.

Seal Before you Install - speaking of things staining tile, I would recommend that if you still are dead set on slate, seal your tiles before you install it. That way, when you go to grout it, it isn't going to matter if when you get some grout on the tile in several spots that you didn't notice until after it dried and left a nice little stain (even if you buy the bigass pastry bag kit like I did). Same goes for the mortar that you might get onto it.

Grout spacing - I don't know about you, but when I think of a grout line that's just 1/16" or 1/8" thick, I think that's waaaaaay too thin. However, when you actually install the tile and then grout it, to me at least, that grout line appears bigger to the eye when filled. So find some tiles that you like the grout width for, and buy a few bags of tile spacers to hold up to the line to verify which grout spacer is the right size.

Practice! - If you've never done this before, it's worth it to use some scrap tile (or even a few full tiles) to practice with. Far better to spend $20 on a few extra tiles and an hour to practice your tile work than install 100 sq ft and THEN find out you put too much/too little mortar on, or you didn't squeeze all of the air out of each floor tile when laying it, etc. And don't be shy with the mortar - I both buttered my tiles and slapped down mortar with a 1/4" square trowel.

Tile edging - Don't make the mistake I did. Figure out what edges your tile floors will have. For carpeting, it's common to set the tile with a metal liner/edge to help protect it from chipping. One side of my kitchen borders a carpeted room, but I didn't think of buying an edge protector before I was laying the tile. It's held up well so far, but I would definitely have wanted to install an edging piece it if had the opportunity all over again.

Time, time, time - Maybe you're a faster worker than I am, but for some reason, laying tile seems to take longer than I expect. So don't just give yourself an hour to do the work before you have to rush off to the shower to get ready for a big night on the town with special tickets.

frompa

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 06:20:01 AM »
Thank you for the benefit of your experience.  I had settled on slate because I like the look of it, it seems a very durable material for this high use area, and it is available from a local quarry.  I'll have to check out the numbers to see what our structure can take.  This house was built in the 1920s, and is generally pretty solid, so I have reason to be hopeful.  But your comments on the potential problems with slate make me reconsider.  And there's no such thing as too much technical information.  Thank you, this is just what I need to approach the problem rationally. 

TomTX

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 03:13:24 PM »

Also, because of the wear concern mentioned above, I would recommend a different natural tile. I love granite, and you can actually get some variety (not nearly as much variety in tile as you can in countertops), but might need to search around on-line for some great deals even after paying shipping. Just remember back to the earth science days when you learned that granite is the second hardest mineral on Moh's scale of hardness after diamonds, so you'll need a new diamond-tipped blade to cut the tile. (and forget about drilling holes in it to mount things, unless it's a diamond-tipped or tungsten carbide-tipped bit). And some granites (like black) are naturally non-pourous, so you don't have to be as worried about things staining it.

Lots of good info, but the hardness just isn't right. Corundum (ruby, sapphire, Moh's 9) is just after diamond (Moh's 10) not granite. Granite is a composite, and would mostly fall in the range of 6-7 on the Moh's scale. Slate varies a lot - tile slate should be 5 or higher.

twa2w

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 05:11:43 PM »
There are some excellent porcelain tiles that mimic slate.  They come in about 10 to 15 different patterns/colors per color tone of slate.  If you buy two or three boxes you end up with all the patterns.  By the time you mix up the tiles and place in different directions you don't see much pattern repeat.
Home depot has two tones of this (Autumn something and cool spring??) but their tile is a thinner cheaper version compared to what you can spot in some tile shops.
This much nicer to work with than slate.  The porcelain has some texture to it but not like raw slate.  Honed and polished slate is much smoother but much more expensive.

thurston howell iv

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 07:04:59 AM »
My wife and I installed a slate floor in our small kitchen in CA. It was our first attempt and came out beautiful. We also did a slate back splash that really helped to tie the floor in. It looked great, wore well, and was cheaper than regular tile. One of the best parts IMO is that sine the tile is all sorts of oddball colors, you never have to worry about a particular style or color not being made anymore. Slate is slate. If one breaks, put in a new one.

The only cons, none of the tiles are perfectly even with regard to height and some tend to have small pieces chip off. Also a little harder to mop. That being said, the floor has been in use since 2002 and has suffered several renters and it's still good to go.


frompa

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Re: slate flooring?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2012, 11:45:07 AM »
Thanks for that excellent information. We are planning to to take this on in early January, after the hub-bub of holidays and visitors has died down.  I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

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