Screw extractor for small M2-M2.5 screws?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

So I was doing some maintenance on my fishing reel and ran into a "screw of death" tiny Philips head machine screw that I ended up stripping. I bought an extractor set (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086YBC7J3/) for it but, unfortunately, it's just not working (I think the extractor is unable to get deep enough into the screw and is slightly wide for the screw hole too).

I'm now wondering if I needed a spiral flute or left-handed drill bit for this...


I noticed on the other side of the plate the screw hole exits and I'm wondering if I can take another screw to screw in from this side and 'push' the stripped screw out. The other part of this problem is that I believe the manufacturer used Loctite (red) to lock the screw into place. I know this can be broken with greater force and or heat (soldering iron) or originally if I had tapped a well-fitted screwdriver into place and carefully turned with more force.


I'm contemplating what would happen if I just drilled with a 1/16" bit (it will fit into the shaft loosely without damaging the threads) into the 'exit' hole but I don't want to create a bigger problem doing that either.

It has crossed my mind to use a Dremel cut-off wheel to form a slot but I'm *very* hesitant about doing that and gouging or nicking the plate since the screw is countersunk. Don't want to unnecessarily damage another part of the reel.

Any thoughts, ideas or tricks on how to remove this stubborn screw?

[chemistk]

My shoot from the hip thought - you could take the tiniest amount of JB weld and use it to fuse something (a nut? small bolt?) to the problem screw.

I would worry about brute-force on something like a fishing reel. I imagine the margin for error if you mess the extraction up is a heck of a lot smaller than if you're trying to get a stuck exhaust bolt out of a car.

[jeromedawg]

My shoot from the hip thought - you could take the tiniest amount of JB weld and use it to fuse something (a nut? small bolt?) to the problem screw.

I would worry about brute-force on something like a fishing reel. I imagine the margin for error if you mess the extraction up is a heck of a lot smaller than if you're trying to get a stuck exhaust bolt out of a car.

I have some 2 Ton 5-min epoxy - would that work? I'm just curious if it would be enough to break the red threadlock/loctite bonded threads... but yea, which a small screw like this it's questionable hahaha

[Wrenchturner]

I don't think that epoxy idea is going to work but you're welcome to try! 

You won't get anywhere trying to drive this out with another screw from the back either. 

Loctite is going to be a real problem here.  Heat would be a great option but you might damage surrounding parts.

You could try cutting a slot in it but based on how small this screw is, and the fact that you stripped out the head already makes me skeptical of this strategy. 

Since you have access to the backside you could drill this sucker out until it breaks apart.  you run the risk of wrecking the threads and you'd have to drill/tap it out again, depending on how much material you have to work with.  If you wrap the drill bit with electrical tape it will act like a bushing to help keep the bit centered.

No great options here!

[jeromedawg]

I don't think that epoxy idea is going to work but you're welcome to try! 

You won't get anywhere trying to drive this out with another screw from the back either. 

Loctite is going to be a real problem here.  Heat would be a great option but you might damage surrounding parts.

You could try cutting a slot in it but based on how small this screw is, and the fact that you stripped out the head already makes me skeptical of this strategy. 

Since you have access to the backside you could drill this sucker out until it breaks apart.  you run the risk of wrecking the threads and you'd have to drill/tap it out again, depending on how much material you have to work with.  If you wrap the drill bit with electrical tape it will act like a bushing to help keep the bit centered.

No great options here!

Do you think JB Weld would work if I find a small enough nut? Reading around, it seems others have recommended using that (I guess it's stronger than standard epoxy?) with success. The screw is pretty small - the width of the head is like 4mm I think? The surrounding parts are either metal or graphite (I think) - not sure if high amounts of heat will ruin the graphite. I actually tried using a solder to heat the screw up but was hesitant and tried not to do it for too long. It didn't seem to do anything but at that point the screw was already stripped too.

How about a small Dremel engraving tip to cut a slot? I'd have to have super steady hands though.

In terms of drilling out from the backside, the 1/16" bit will fit into the backside hole without touch the threads but yea I can see that being a risk if it's not dead on while drilling or if it slips and hits the threads while drilling.

Ughhhh, all this because I want to simply repaint the reel :( Well, I also wanted to do a full tear-down and service. Not sure why these manufacturers would ever use that kind of Loctite in conjunction with a tiny screw that is comprised of the softest metal :T

BTW: I tried searching for Youtube videos of anyone who has successfully used JB Weld and came across this - https://youtu.be/Qfx5eUe2s2U?t=168 - it might be worth a shot although I need to make sure I use a stainless steel allen wrench that won't snap like the black ones might.

[lthenderson]

I would be surprised if JB Weld would work in this situation for a couple of reasons. It doesn't have the best adhesive properties to smooth surfaces especially in shear. The video linked was to a allen screw where he could really sink an allen wrench down into it to give it something to bite into and where the bond had places of compression where JB Weld really shines. I'm also guessing the screw probably wasn't a fused screw or had loctite applied to it so the torque was probably a lot less to get it started than your screw. But you don't have much to lose by trying. Usually I just start with a really small reverse threaded drill bit and keep working my way up until the thing comes out or I get close to the original threads and then retap the threads. I've never had much luck with screw extractor on small screws like that one.

[jeromedawg]

I would be surprised if JB Weld would work in this situation for a couple of reasons. It doesn't have the best adhesive properties to smooth surfaces especially in shear. The video linked was to a allen screw where he could really sink an allen wrench down into it to give it something to bite into and where the bond had places of compression where JB Weld really shines. I'm also guessing the screw probably wasn't a fused screw or had loctite applied to it so the torque was probably a lot less to get it started than your screw. But you don't have much to lose by trying. Usually I just start with a really small reverse threaded drill bit and keep working my way up until the thing comes out or I get close to the original threads and then retap the threads. I've never had much luck with screw extractor on small screws like that one.

Hmm, Maybe I'll just pickup the reverse bit set then and use the 1/16" bit. Do you think with the loctite though that reverse drilling in will actually be enough to break the loctite and back the screw out when it gets in deep enough and catches on? The concern is that it's going to be hard to keep the drill bit 100% vertical because the drift shaft that sticks out is *very* close to the screw so the chuck and drill bit are going to end up being at an angle - unless I can somehow extend the drill bit some other way.

[JLee]

I think I would use a punch to indent the center of the opposite side of the screw and then try to drill it out from there, or get a left-hand drill bit and do the same from the stripped side.  Epoxy isn't going to hold, and it's too small to weld a nut to it.

[Dancin'Dog]

I think your best bet is to cut a slot across the head with an abrasive disc on a Dremel.  (It would be easier to do with a micro die grinder.  I have an air driven one from Harbor Frt for $15 which is about the size of a cigar & spins 56,000 rpm.)  Secure the reel in a vise or clamp & wear eye protection.  You'll have to cut into the part a little, but it will probably be okay. 


It would be smart to find a good flat blade screwdriver the correct size first, so you can attempt for the best fit.


I this should be a successful method. 


Heat would probably help but there are might be rubber seals that would melt.  Graphite is heat proof.  They actually use graphite electrodes for electro melting steel.  Graphite fiber insulation handles temps beyond 5000f, which is used when ceramic fiber insulation isn't adequate. 

[jeromedawg]

I think your best bet is to cut a slot across the head with an abrasive disc on a Dremel.  (It would be easier to do with a micro die grinder.  I have an air driven one from Harbor Frt for $15 which is about the size of a cigar & spins 56,000 rpm.)  Secure the reel in a vise or clamp & wear eye protection.  You'll have to cut into the part a little, but it will probably be okay. 


It would be smart to find a good flat blade screwdriver the correct size first, so you can attempt for the best fit.


I this should be a successful method. 


Heat would probably help but there are might be rubber seals that would melt.  Graphite is heat proof.  They actually use graphite electrodes for electro melting steel.  Graphite fiber insulation handles temps beyond 5000f, which is used when ceramic fiber insulation isn't adequate.

Yea that might be the only way to do it at this point. What size disc should I use? And with the micro die grinders, I search but most seem to be pneumatic - I don't have a compressor or anything like that.

[Dancin'Dog]

I think your best bet is to cut a slot across the head with an abrasive disc on a Dremel.  (It would be easier to do with a micro die grinder.  I have an air driven one from Harbor Frt for $15 which is about the size of a cigar & spins 56,000 rpm.)  Secure the reel in a vise or clamp & wear eye protection.  You'll have to cut into the part a little, but it will probably be okay. 


It would be smart to find a good flat blade screwdriver the correct size first, so you can attempt for the best fit.


I this should be a successful method. 


Heat would probably help but there are might be rubber seals that would melt.  Graphite is heat proof.  They actually use graphite electrodes for electro melting steel.  Graphite fiber insulation handles temps beyond 5000f, which is used when ceramic fiber insulation isn't adequate.

Yea that might be the only way to do it at this point. What size disc should I use? And with the micro die grinders, I search but most seem to be pneumatic - I don't have a compressor or anything like that.

The abrasive discs are about 1" in diameter and mount onto a small mandrel, with a little screw on the tip, that fits into the chuck of your dremel.  They're packaged in a little tube of about 25 pcs.  They're very brittle, but work well for jobs like this. 


Yes, the micro die grinder is pneumatic.  They are very handy, but consume a lot of air considering they're such a small tool.  You should be able to do it with a normal electric Dremel.

[big_owl]

My Ducati screws are always doing this, older Italian bikes are notorious for this.

I have an impact screwdriver.   I haven't had to use it on an M2 yet, but it's worked for every other size I've had this happen on.

Basically it's just a heavy screwdriver with a ratcheting mechanism and you firmly tap it with a hammer and it causes the screw to break loose and then you can just twist it out by hand.

It's saved my ass a dozen times over the years.  You just need to get the right sized screw bit for it. 

[big_owl]

Oh yeah and I also second the dremel approach, especially combined with the impact screwdriver.

If you can't find a microcutter just get a regular sized dremel wheel and wear it down so the disk is very small, then carefully notch the screw and use an impact screwdriver. With the impact driver the notch just has to be deep enough for the flat blade of the screw bit to catch. Just a slight notch will do.

Here's what I use. I have an older craftsman model but it's the same thing. You're supposed to use impact bits but for light duty stuff I use regular bits where necessary.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TEKTON-3-8-in-Drive-Impact-Screwdriver-Set-7-Piece-2905/205674679

[Wrenchturner]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but use a penetrating oil too!

[jeromedawg]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but use a penetrating oil too!

THANK YOU - I think this helped immensely. I mustered up the energy to revisit. Had previously applied Liquid Wrench and then let it sit - I noticed that I was able to wiggle clutch trigger plate (held down by two screws, one of which was the stripped one) so applied a little more Liquid Wrench and kept wigglign. I also took a hammer and small screwdriver to the stripped screw to create a notch. Once I got it to "catch" I started turning and *VOILA!!!* the screw started turning and I was able to get it out. So relieved.... I do have to wait a while before I get the replacement screw but I'm just glad I was able to fully tear this thing down.

[Wrenchturner]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but use a penetrating oil too!

THANK YOU - I think this helped immensely. I mustered up the energy to revisit. Had previously applied Liquid Wrench and then let it sit - I noticed that I was able to wiggle clutch trigger plate (held down by two screws, one of which was the stripped one) so applied a little more Liquid Wrench and kept wigglign. I also took a hammer and small screwdriver to the stripped screw to create a notch. Once I got it to "catch" I started turning and *VOILA!!!* the screw started turning and I was able to get it out. So relieved.... I do have to wait a while before I get the replacement screw but I'm just glad I was able to fully tear this thing down.

Glad it worked out for you!

[Fishindude]

In the time it took to read this entire thread, I probably would have already thrown the reel in the trash and just started looking to replace it.
Reels are cheap and I've never seen any type of screw extraction device that really works good.

I'd like to find the guy who named the EZ Out and see where he came up with that name. 
Should have named it the frustrating, knuckle buster, break off device that rarely works.

[jeromedawg]

In the time it took to read this entire thread, I probably would have already thrown the reel in the trash and just started looking to replace it.
Reels are cheap and I've never seen any type of screw extraction device that really works good.

I'd like to find the guy who named the EZ Out and see where he came up with that name. 
Should have named it the frustrating, knuckle buster, break off device that rarely works.

I'm returning the junk "EZ Out" set I got - it's definitely trash and doesn't work on other screws.

This reel is more of a keepsake and is slightly 'vintage' (Daiwa Coastal 153h - it's going to be a classic soon enough if it already isn't considered one). It's expensive enough to replace and the time and money I've already 'invested' in fixing it up IMHO is not worth tossing it nor is it worth buying a new reel to replace it over (of course, I will be buying more reels *anyway* since I'm a gear junkie LOL). That said, I really love this reel especially after fixing up the drag washers - it's solid and is the first *real* baitcaster I've ever owned, so there's sentimental value too. To me, it's a 'project' beater reel.

On the top of "cheap" reels - I agree that there are definitely cheaper reels out there, but you are sacrificing quality and often durability when it comes to saltwater (which is primarily what I fish). That said, the next "cheap" reels I plan to get will be the Abu Garcia Silver and Black Maxes. These seems like excellent value reels for the price. In fact, the Silver Max was $30~ for a short time on Walmart and Amazon and I was hesitating on jumping on it but just should have. Now they're back up to $60~. My friend has a few Abus and was doubtful about them but has really come to like them - he has even dropped or dunked several of them in saltwater and they're still fine.
I have a Kastking Royale Legend as well which is solid for the price but I'm generally not a huge fan of KastKing stuff and would rather just buy the Abus at that price point. There are more reels (and much more expensive ones) in my collection but I'll probably start getting *facepunched* after listing things out.
Shimano and Daiwa reels are *not* cheap, generally speaking, however (although both tend to hold their value for used resale very well... especially Shimano)... but that's a whole different thread/discussion hahaha.