Saved $1000 through DIY Recessed LED light fixtures

[Cromacster]

Recently installed recessed lighting in my living.  An electrician quoted us at 177 per light (1416 for 8 Total) and 79 per Dimmer Switch (2 Total).  This included Halogen light fixtures.

It was the 79 per switch that really made me WTF why would I pay for that.  So I did some research and how to do it.  Completed the Project for about 600$ using LED light fixtures.  The project probably took me a total of 18 hrs.  Granted I pretty new to this, so alot of the time was thinking through how to overcome some obstacles and I was very meticulous with the wiring.

[Greg]

Nice job.  I figure you paid yourself about $55/hr.  Not bad.

[TheDude]

Awesome work. I need to do the same to my house. I hate just have light connected to outlets.

[Cromacster]

Awesome work. I need to do the same to my house. I hate just have light connected to outlets.

Yea I feel the same way.  The before picture (although work is in progress) shows what our lighting situation was before the  project.  We just had the two floor lamps.  It feels like a whole new room now (and much larger).

[Spork]

Nice.

I've noticed (I've been looking at similar modules) -- more often than not it seems like the modules are a combo of the light *and* the trim kit.  Were yours like that?  My paranoia is that I'm going to replace the whole house (about 21 of them) and when one burns out the replacement will be ever-so-slightly different.

[dragoncar]

I always thought you needed to be licensed to do this level of work.

[Cromacster]

Nice.

I've noticed (I've been looking at similar modules) -- more often than not it seems like the modules are a combo of the light *and* the trim kit.  Were yours like that?  My paranoia is that I'm going to replace the whole house (about 21 of them) and when one burns out the replacement will be ever-so-slightly different.

Yes, I bought the version where the trim is part of the light.  I considered this situation as well, but I essentially ended at the thought that I will be able to buy the same or something similar.  I also grew up in a house where the recessed lighting in my parents living room just had exposed CFL's of all different shapes, sizes, and wattages...so maybe I'm just not that particular.

[Cromacster]

I always thought you needed to be licensed to do this level of work.

Not sure.  I had two levels of thought on this.  1) I got quotes from two electricians, and the both said they wouldn't have the city inspect it because we weren't adding a new circuit.  I figured if I don't need it inspected, I'll do it myself.  2) I understand that running wire imposes some risks, but other than the new wire, it's essentially the same as changing a light fixture or changing a switch.

I know it also varies state to state, country to country as what work needs to be done by a licensed professional.

[Spork]

I always thought you needed to be licensed to do this level of work.

while it probably varies from municipality to municipality...  Almost anything can be done by the home owner.   In a lot of places you (legally) have to pull a permit.  ...but now that I am safely not living in those places I'll admit that I never have.

[_JT]

You never have to be licensed to perform this type of work in a residential location. Now, LOTS of times you have to be permitted to do it, which also often requires a license to pull the permit. This varies wildly from municipality to municipality.

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I've noticed (I've been looking at similar modules) -- more often than not it seems like the modules are a combo of the light *and* the trim kit.  Were yours like that?  My paranoia is that I'm going to replace the whole house (about 21 of them) and when one burns out the replacement will be ever-so-slightly different.

The LEDs cans I just installed in my studio (giant DIY thread to come) were light/trim combos, but I don't have any concerns that I'll have trouble finding a replacement if I need to. LED lighting isn't going anywhere, and the one I choose wasn't unusual at all. Also, unless something very weird happens, chances are good these lights will give me a 20 year minimum lifespan.

[dragoncar]

You never have to be licensed to perform this type of work in a residential location. Now, LOTS of times you have to be permitted to do it, which also often requires a license to pull the permit. This varies wildly from municipality to municipality.

Isn't that the same thing?  Or do you get an electrician to pull the permit and then do the work yourself and it's legit?

But what I'm hearing is that, in general, you can do your own electrical work if it's up to code.

[_JT]

Well, some people might call it a nitpick, but I have an engineering background, so the devil's in the details. If you have to be licensed to pull the permit, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be licensed to do the work. Electricians routinely have helpers/apprentices do varying amounts of work, and it's also not unheard of to pay a tradesman to pull a permit and then do the work yourself.

As you say, though, the important thing is that with the permit comes the inspector, and your work will have to be done to code.

[Greg]

In many places homeowners are allowed to do their own electrical work.  Owners in these cases can also pull their own permits.  This applies to new construction as well as remodeling and alterations.  If it's permitted, the inspection is often easier for the licensed electrician, since they have a reputation that the inspector will be aware of.  But, if you're an owner, you can ask a lot of questions of the permit issuer and/or inspector, and depending on what kind of mood everyone is in it can be quite helpful.

[Peter]

Nice job.  I figure you paid yourself about $55/hr.  Not bad.

And that's after tax! You got paid $89/hour before tax by my estimation.

[bostonmoney]

Nice.

I've noticed (I've been looking at similar modules) -- more often than not it seems like the modules are a combo of the light *and* the trim kit.  Were yours like that?  My paranoia is that I'm going to replace the whole house (about 21 of them) and when one burns out the replacement will be ever-so-slightly different.

Yes, I bought the version where the trim is part of the light.  I considered this situation as well, but I essentially ended at the thought that I will be able to buy the same or something similar.  I also grew up in a house where the recessed lighting in my parents living room just had exposed CFL's of all different shapes, sizes, and wattages...so maybe I'm just not that particular.

I work for a lighting company that makes trims and those trim modules.  They will always make the standard "trim can" sizes fit any LED retrofit modules, so have no fear of that.  To many trims out there, if you designed a whole new size you really limit your market.

[Spork]

Nice.

I've noticed (I've been looking at similar modules) -- more often than not it seems like the modules are a combo of the light *and* the trim kit.  Were yours like that?  My paranoia is that I'm going to replace the whole house (about 21 of them) and when one burns out the replacement will be ever-so-slightly different.

Yes, I bought the version where the trim is part of the light.  I considered this situation as well, but I essentially ended at the thought that I will be able to buy the same or something similar.  I also grew up in a house where the recessed lighting in my parents living room just had exposed CFL's of all different shapes, sizes, and wattages...so maybe I'm just not that particular.

I work for a lighting company that makes trims and those trim modules.  They will always make the standard "trim can" sizes fit any LED retrofit modules, so have no fear of that.  To many trims out there, if you designed a whole new size you really limit your market.

It's not the size that I worry about.  It's the style.  Right now the box stores seem to offer a single style in 6" recessed.  If the lamps do last on average 30 years, that means I'll probably have a handful to replace in the 10-15 range.  I worry (and maybe I shouldn't) that the one style they sold way back in 2013 won't be popular and will be replaced with 3 other styles in 2025.   Since I've got about 25 fixtures, I don't want to have one silly fixture that is different from the rest.

[bostonmoney]

They will most always have retrofit modules.  Like for example 30 year old incandescent cans are being used for retrofits now.  They make an LED module that has a screw base of a bulb, this powers the driver and then the whole unit gets pushed right up into the can.

30 years from now I will bet they will have solutions to replace the LED module.

[msilenus]

Cromacster, would you mind sharing with us what model LEDs you got, and any impressions you have?

I tried some a while back and got low dimmer range and buzzing.  Hoping to try out some better candidates in 2014.

[Spork]

They will most always have retrofit modules.  Like for example 30 year old incandescent cans are being used for retrofits now.  They make an LED module that has a screw base of a bulb, this powers the driver and then the whole unit gets pushed right up into the can.

30 years from now I will bet they will have solutions to replace the LED module.

I have no doubts there will be replacements... but again: I'm worried about them being the same.  I don't want to replace every fixture when one dies. 

For instance: my parents' 1960's era house has the same cans... but I cannot find matching trim kits for them.

[burly]

I am looking to do this to my house.... However, I do not have any wired lights in the celing as is... Where did you run the electrical from? I could drill the holes and put everything in.. but i'm not sure how to get the power to the ceiling... Did you run it along the rafters and wire in on the second floor or attic?

[_JT]

That's a somewhat complicated question. Do you have attic access above, or is there a second story? Do you have space in your electrical panel for a new circuit (you're required to by code, but that doesn't always mean much)? Are you comfortable with the scope of this job (cutting the holes and installing the fixtures is the easy part, but there's also the firing in the fixtures, the switch, all of the fish taping you'll need to do to get conductors where they need to go, and then the home run/termination in your main panel)? One last thing to be aware of is that adding a circuit to your house will almost certainly require a permit.

A slightly simpler method is, in some cases, to wire them into an already existing lighting circuit in that room. But that also can be tricky and takes some preparation.

[Cromacster]

Here are the lights I used.  They have a good dimming range,but they do require a special dimmer. And there is no buzzing.
http://t.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-6-in-9-5-Watt-65W-Soft-White-2700K-Dimmable-LED-Downlight-ECO-575L/202240932/


Overall performance is great, I really enjoy the new lights. My only complaint with the design is that they are a pressure fit in the recessed can.  Most of the time this isn't a problem, but I recently insulated my attic, which is directly above the room where the lights are, and some of the lights starting to slip out of the can.  It was fixed by just pushing them back in.  But if there was a second floor above this room I guess there could be some potential of the lights slipping out from heavy walking or jumping. 

[msilenus]

Thank you!  I'll give them a shot.

[niknak]

That's awesome that you decided to do it yourself and that you ended up satisfied with the work.

You may know this already but recessed lights create lots of holes in your ceiling where conditioned air can easily escape. Since you live in a region with very cold weather, you could end up paying a higher energy bill as the nice warm air quickly escapes through those lights, which are notorious for leaking air.

I'd recommend searching for ways to prevent air from escaping through those light fixtures. Most of the solutions are very simple and cheap.

[Cromacster]

That's awesome that you decided to do it yourself and that you ended up satisfied with the work.

You may know this already but recessed lights create lots of holes in your ceiling where conditioned air can easily escape. Since you live in a region with very cold weather, you could end up paying a higher energy bill as the nice warm air quickly escapes through those lights, which are notorious for leaking air.

I'd recommend searching for ways to prevent air from escaping through those light fixtures. Most of the solutions are very simple and cheap.

The lights were a precursor to insulating my attic.  While not impossible to due post insulating, it was much easier to do it prior.  And yes, I used foam around the edges of the can and used silicone to plug the holes of the can itself.  The cans I purchased are sold as "airtight", but I highly doubt that, considering you can see light from below when viewing from the attic side.  I did not build a foam box around the light itself as some people recommend, but what I did should suffice.  And yes they are IC rated lights.

[dragoncar]

They will most always have retrofit modules.  Like for example 30 year old incandescent cans are being used for retrofits now.  They make an LED module that has a screw base of a bulb, this powers the driver and then the whole unit gets pushed right up into the can.

30 years from now I will bet they will have solutions to replace the LED module.

I have no doubts there will be replacements... but again: I'm worried about them being the same.  I don't want to replace every fixture when one dies. 

For instance: my parents' 1960's era house has the same cans... but I cannot find matching trim kits for them.

Buy a few backups now... Or wait until the model is discontinued and pick up replacement stock realy cheap