Author Topic: Replacing carpet with lino  (Read 880 times)

sea_saw

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Replacing carpet with lino
« on: September 13, 2017, 06:27:21 AM »
I am a brand new homeowner, have never before had the opportunity to DIY anything, and the same goes for most of my friends. So I'm starting from zero tools/experience and would really appreciate help.

My bathroom currently has carpet. Vomit!

I've seen videos of people cutting out and sticking down lino (including around sinks, toilets etc) and it looks very doable. However I'm not sure about removing the carpet, or what to check for in the state of the floor underneath. For what it's worth, the original building is interwar period (20s?), and was converted into flats in the 90s.

Can I just try to pull up the carpet and take a look? What am I looking for - what might be cause for concern or require more work? If I take it up, do I need to put it back until I'm ready to replace it, or can I just take it out and bin it and still use the bathroom?

Soundproofing is a concern as sound really carries around the building (which is the reason carpet was installed in the first place).

Fishindude

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 06:39:35 AM »
Carpet will typically come up pretty easy, just rip it out and use a razor knife if necessary.  Then you will have to see what's underneath and you need a proper sub-floor material for whatever you decide to install.   I would not recommend a beginner installing linoleum, you'll likely wind up with poor fit and curling at the edges / perimeter.   Something much more user friendly for a beginner to install would be 12" x 12" vinyl tile or laminate flooring.   

sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 06:58:47 AM »
Darn. Knew I'd end up using the wrong word somewhere. I meant laminate (I feel like some sites I've been reading have been using them fairly interchangeably...).

I'll pull the carpet up a bit tonight and see what I see. I'm thinking if this project involves more than just the laminate it might be beyond me at this stage.

lthenderson

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
I spent four months walking on subflooring in my bathroom while I went about remodeling it and still using the sink and toilet as long as possible. (I live in a house with four women who were using the other bathroom.) You won't harm it but if you spill a lot of water, you want to clean it up instead of leaving it.

Once you pull up carpet, there is really no putting it back without proper stretching tools. Just pull it up and be prepared to walk on the subflooring until you figure out what you want to replace it with.

Jon Bon

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 08:27:15 AM »
LVT! aka Luxury Vinyl Tile

Give it a google. It's a click together product that claims to be water proof. I put it in a bathroom a few months ago, so far so good. Some are peel and stick which I hate. Some have an epoxy which are probably best but hardest to install.

I mean it's "expensive" compared to linoleum, but a bathroom is what like 100sqft? Even at $3 bucks a foot its pretty affordable, plus it requires very few tools, minimum prep, and no glue/motar/epoxy.  I would recommend putting down quarter-round (a piece of wooden trim that is 1/4 of a circle) when you are finished to keep everything tight. It's like 10x faster then doing tile. I feel tile is best but in most cases you want your bathroom back asap.

This is the one I used.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/LifeProof-Sterling-Oak-8-7-in-x-47-6-in-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-20-06-sq-ft-case-I966106L/300699284


sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 09:18:03 AM »
Haha. My entire flat is 500 square feet. I do NOT have 100 square foot of bathroom floor to worry about. It's probably about 2m x 2m (excluding the bathtub). 

Quarter rounds was a new term to me. It sounds like they're used instead of skirting boards, or in addition to, is that right?

I'll be home in a few hours, I'll lift up a corner of the carpet and then work out if I want to take the whole thing out sharpish. I shudder every time I step out of the bath and step on it so... probably.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 09:34:22 AM by sea_saw »

sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with laminate
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 03:13:26 PM »
Well I pulled up the carpet from one end of the room and found... um... what I am tentatively identifying as (rather grotty) underlay, and (rather cheerful) carpet gripper. Photos attached, is that right? I take it I need to get rid of all of it to replace the carpet, and replace with a new underlay suited to the new floor?

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 03:15:55 PM »
Following, as I may be mimicking these steps shortly...

ChpBstrd

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 03:24:37 PM »
Keep pulling up the pad. Pull it up next to the tub. That's where water usually causes damage. Need to see if the underlying floor is wood or concrete, or if additional repair will be needed. After inspection, you can just flop it back down and continue use until you start the project.

For just a few square meters, I'd hire a tile contractor and have it done nicely. The $500-800 would accrue directly to your home equity and there's less of a chance for a botched-up job that will annoy you, waste time, or otherwise fail. A washable area rug can improve acoustics.

Be wary of gee-wizz simple cheap solution products like self-sticking tile. Such things often last 3 years before having problems.

sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 02:42:19 AM »
Thanks everyone! And joon, I'm now following your journal, my goodness.

ChpBstrd: the underlying floor is definitely wood. It's an old building, wooden beams visible all over the place.

I pulled up the carpet around the tub on the shower side, where the bath panel shows water damage. Photo attached. I couldn't see anything immediately wrong with it, but what should I be looking out for? I only peeled it back as far as you can see there before it got stuck on the bath panel. I'm used to those just being leaned against the tub but this one has sealant all around the top so I wasn't sure about removing it.

The actual dimensions of the floor to be covered (i.e. minus bath) are 1.4m x 1.6m, so yeah, it's not a big job, but that's part of why I was tempted to try it myself. I'll get quotes from a flooring shop for sure.

In terms of tile: the agreement that dictates what flat owners can/can't do that might be a nuisance to others in the building specifically states all rooms except the kitchen must be carpeted. Thus, exciting bathroom carpet. I have asked around and it seems that many people have quietly ignored this when it comes to the bathroom and replaced it with laminate, however real tile seems against the spirit as well as the letter of the law. Sound REALLY carries.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:55:24 AM by sea_saw »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 07:44:24 AM »
It's hard to tell from the pic if the floor is OK or rotten. Maybe stab the floor with a screwdriver along the tub to see if it can poke a hole.

Now that I better understand the risk of someone complaining about sound, I would go with a piece of the thickest, most expensive sheet vinyl you like - not vinyl tiles. With sheet vinyl you have fewer gaps for water infiltration compared to vinyl tile, and fewer opportunities for peeling, gapping, etc.

To lay sheet vinyl, you'll take very careful and precise measurements of the room (considering it might not be square) and buy a square or rectangle bigger than that. Then, carefully cut out the shape of the room, leaving an extra 1 inch or cm on each side. Then carefully fit the piece into the room so that the excess rolls up the walls evenly all around. Then roll it back and apply contact cement under half, then mash it down flat. Repeat for the other half. Then, use a utility knife to cut off the excess that rolls up the wall. Then, use caulk to waterproof the edges and nail in your quarter round over the caulk.

Notes:
The toilet must be removed. Install a new wax ring under it.
The floor must be absolutely flat or every little speck will show through - no staples, little holes, dirt chunks, etc.
Great news: sheet vinyl is cheap enough you can afford to screw up a few times and start over.
Most professionals cut the vinyl to be very flush against the tub, take extra steps to glue down that edge, and caulk it for waterproofing, but do not put quarter round over that section. If your tub makes a straight line, and your cut doesn't work out, you may choose to quarter round it anyway.
YouTube is your friend. It helps to visualize the technique.

lthenderson

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 08:47:28 AM »
I don't think I have ever done a bathroom floor that didn't have discoloration due to water on the subfloor. The key is to check if it is rotten. Poke at the discolored and non-discolored areas with a sharp object like a screwdriver or pocket knife. If it is rotten, you will definitely feel a difference and then you should replace that part of the subfloor. Most that I have dealt with are still solid and if that is the case, just ensure that there isn't an active leak going on and proceed with your flooring project.

sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 10:01:18 AM »
Thanks ChpBstrd, you're a great help already :) and thanks lthenderson!

If the concern with water damage is that the planks would be damp or rotten I can say that the part I saw felt completely solid (I poked it with my pliers all along the bit I exposed). Obviously I'd want to check the whole floor.

However, it wasn't smooth, and there were gaps between the boards. It sounds like that might be a problem. Presumably the sort of problem that has some of the guides I've read recommending putting a thin layer of plywood over the whole floor.

I will be watching videos of people putting down sheet vinyl and moving toilets (!) and decide if I am up to the task. As it's my only toilet I'm a bit... less excited about possibly messing up that part of the project than I am about wasting some sheet vinyl. (Visions of me unable to pee at home for days or flooding the flat below...).

Questions:

What about the sink pedestal then? Same story, remove and go under it? Most videos/guides seem to be going around both which I will admit seems much less daunting.

I'm not sure about the tub edge. The way it's built, the tub and the panel that goes along the side are two separate objects, and the panel can be removed easily  to access the bath plumbing, or in this case, the floor. I'm not sure about going only just up to the panel, as the bottom of it is warped from water damage (as you can see in the photo). I've been assuming I'd go under it a bit, but thinking about it, all the houses I've lived in they've just taken the flooring up to the panel and then stopped in a line. Presumably there is a reason for this...

Is a 'quarter round' what the UK guides seem to call a 'scotia' or 'beading'? If I'm understanding correctly, it goes on top of the new flooring and along the skirting to hide the join. I notice some guides are removing the skirting and putting it on after the floor to serve the same purpose. sldkjglkh

Not a question, but it is a strange feeling being this out of my element. I can't tell if I'm being completely silly to try to take this on as a project instead of just paying an expert (which I'm definitely still going to get quotes for!) or silly to be worrying about it. And I keep landing on trades forums where people are arguing about all these points and I can't tell the good advice from the bad hah.

fodder69

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 11:28:01 AM »
I don't put vinyl directly on those boards. You should put a thin plywood to make a completely flat surface.

Removing the toilet and pedestal is really by far the best way to go for good surface, it's really hard to get smooth cuts that look good. Removing them is pretty easy for both. Turn off the water supply, unbolt and move on. Putting the toilet back down is just a case of using a new wax ring.

I'd run it under the tub surround if you can for the same reason.

Quarter round can be used instead shoe molding but shoe molding looks better. Shoe mold is just quarter oval essentially. You are right about the use.

One thing you can do for quotesis do the sink removal and such and have someone else lay the flooring. It really shouldn't cost much that way.


paddedhat

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 01:23:12 PM »
That blue piece of wood, around the edges, under the carpet, is called a "tack strip". It is like a wooden yardstick that has small tacks nailed through it, poking straight up. Since you are pulling the carpet up, take a flat prybar and a hammer, and get rid of every inch, ASAP. You can carefully break it up and put it in the garbage.  Stepping on the stuff, barefoot, will give you an opportunity to scream and use lots of profanities. Kneeling on it, trust me, is a whole other level of hell.

Papa bear

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Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 05:56:28 PM »
Thanks ChpBstrd, you're a great help already :) and thanks lthenderson!

If the concern with water damage is that the planks would be damp or rotten I can say that the part I saw felt completely solid (I poked it with my pliers all along the bit I exposed). Obviously I'd want to check the whole floor.

However, it wasn't smooth, and there were gaps between the boards. It sounds like that might be a problem. Presumably the sort of problem that has some of the guides I've read recommending putting a thin layer of plywood over the whole floor.

I will be watching videos of people putting down sheet vinyl and moving toilets (!) and decide if I am up to the task. As it's my only toilet I'm a bit... less excited about possibly messing up that part of the project than I am about wasting some sheet vinyl. (Visions of me unable to pee at home for days or flooding the flat below...).

Questions:

What about the sink pedestal then? Same story, remove and go under it? Most videos/guides seem to be going around both which I will admit seems much less daunting.

I'm not sure about the tub edge. The way it's built, the tub and the panel that goes along the side are two separate objects, and the panel can be removed easily  to access the bath plumbing, or in this case, the floor. I'm not sure about going only just up to the panel, as the bottom of it is warped from water damage (as you can see in the photo). I've been assuming I'd go under it a bit, but thinking about it, all the houses I've lived in they've just taken the flooring up to the panel and then stopped in a line. Presumably there is a reason for this...

Is a 'quarter round' what the UK guides seem to call a 'scotia' or 'beading'? If I'm understanding correctly, it goes on top of the new flooring and along the skirting to hide the join. I notice some guides are removing the skirting and putting it on after the floor to serve the same purpose. sldkjglkh

Not a question, but it is a strange feeling being this out of my element. I can't tell if I'm being completely silly to try to take this on as a project instead of just paying an expert (which I'm definitely still going to get quotes for!) or silly to be worrying about it. And I keep landing on trades forums where people are arguing about all these points and I can't tell the good advice from the bad hah.


Quarter round is exactly as it sounds. It is 1/4 of a "round" circle. I prefer shoe molding rather than a true quarter round for the last piece.  To me

Whoa sorry - life got in the way of posting.

If you go with sheet linoleum, I usually use 1/4" luan plywood, screwed in, and the joints and each screw hole filled in with floor leveler.  It makes a nice true surface to lay on. Also, given the size, look for remnant pieces.  You don't need much.

I agree with the other posters - pull the toilet, get under the pedestal sink, undercut your door jambs, etc.  if you don't, it screams amateur. For install, you can also cut out a template from paper/cardboard and then transfer that to the linoleum final piece.

If it was my bathroom, I'd go with tile, but have used sheet linoleum for rental properties and it does hold up well.

Good luck with whatever you do.


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« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 09:20:07 PM by Papa bear »

Hotstreak

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 07:28:08 PM »
As a layperson, seeing it referred to as a quarter of a circle is confusing.  It's a three dimensional piece, so it could be more accurately referred to as a quarter of a cylinder, like a dowel the length of your wall.

fodder69

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 02:08:21 PM »
As a layperson, seeing it referred to as a quarter of a circle is confusing.  It's a three dimensional piece, so it could be more accurately referred to as a quarter of a cylinder, like a dowel the length of your wall.

That's funny, but yeah, when molding is specified it is shown as a cross section and then purchased by the foot so the height of the cylinder is not used when describing it.

sea_saw

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Re: Replacing carpet with lino
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2017, 08:12:08 AM »
That is funny, I immediately understood what was meant by the quarter circle. And now that I know what it is I'm seeing it everywhere, in many non circular variations...

Latest updates:

I have been mostly occupied elsewhere in the flat, sanding and painting.

I have however had a plumber in to look at the bathroom with a view to installing an electric shower (above the bath). I asked him about the floor and he said he would expect to go around the toilet and sink, not under. Hmm...

Next step is to take up all the carpet (and carpet grip strips) to check all the floor underneath for damage or wonkiness. I will do so when I get a moment. Then I can also take photos and measurements to flooring places for quotes.