Repairing original tile that has fallen off wall

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

Curious to know what the best way to fix tile that has fallen off a fireplace mantle is. Slowly one by one, the edge tiles that were at the top of the fireplace have been falling off. Is it just a matter of getting some adhesive and grout and sticking them back on?

[Papa bear]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


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[jeromedawg]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


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This is from the original install when they built the place back in 1989/1990 and we moved in in 2007, so I don't have any of the original grout.

What's the process for cleaning off the old thinset btw?

[Papa bear]

Chisel, putty knife, sand paper, etc.  it’s basically just using some elbow grease to keep picking away until it’s done.


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[ilsy]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


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To fix the problem of grout not matching, you can just paint over all grout line with a grout paint, it cost about $8 n any home improvement store.

[meghan88]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


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To fix the problem of grout not matching, you can just paint over all grout line with a grout paint, it cost about $8 n any home improvement store.

Like the others said, just chip off the old adhesive carefully and slap on some new.  Use painter's tape and/or spacers to keep the tiles in place until the adhesive / mastic dries.  Make sure the mastic doesn't squeeze up between the tiles - that's where you'll want to grout.

Looks like medium-grey grout to me, which is the default colour.  Just get some of that and go for it, and give it a chance to dry to see how it matches.  And you can always feather out the new grout over the neighbouring joints to try to blend it in.  Work at a 45-degree angle to the grout lines - meaning, wipe diagonally, not up and down or side-to-side, and wipe the haze off diagonally as well, carefully, before the grout sets up too much.  Tiling and grouting a surface like this is super-easy.

[Papa bear]

Just a clarification for you: there’s a big difference between thinset and mastic/adhesive.

Thinset is a mortar base. Mastic is an organic “glue” product. 

I would try and match what was used before.  If it’s like a rock, or crumbles to dust, it was probably thinset.  If it’s tacky and pulls off in strips, probably mastic.

My preference is always for thinset, though mastic is usually fine in areas that will not have any water.  Mastic is water soluble and will fail in wet/moist areas. Thinset is much stronger and more durable, but a lot harder to work with.


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[BudgetSlasher]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


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This is from the original install when they built the place back in 1989/1990 and we moved in in 2007, so I don't have any of the original grout.

What's the process for cleaning off the old thinset btw?

I know is this MMM, that looks like a standard 4x4 ceramic tile and if it is standard color those things less than $1 a tile at the big box store.

As for grout, I second the grout "paint suggestion" I have had good luck with custom building products paint/sealer.

[jeromedawg]

Thanks guys. I am wondering if it might be time we just under the tiling... would something like these work for the fireplace and would they be rated for that kind of use?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Daltile-Restore-Bright-White-3-in-x-6-in-Ceramic-Modular-Wall-Tile-12-5-sq-ft-case-RE1536MODHD1P4/302575146

[Papa bear]

I haven’t done any tile installs around a fireplace.  I would imagine that ceramic tile would be just fine for it.  I would use a 1/2” concrete backer board and thinset for the install. 

Google says that you need a grade 4 or 5 tile, which would be floor or commercial rated, which subway tile typically is not (normally it’s wall tile) Again, I wouldn’t think it would be an issue, though.


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[jeromedawg]

So I'm pretty sure this is thinset - man, it's kind of a pain to get off with a hammer and chisel and there are probably 10 more of these tiles to do hahaha. The other thing is that the tiles sort of have a beveled edge since they're the edge ones. Are all the tiles like this and whoever installed them just cut the beveled edge off to make it straight? If I were to get a box of replacements from the store, I'd want to make sure they have a beveled edge on one side right?


Or is it possible just to re-fit the existing pieces (grout + thinset and all) back into position and use some other sort of adhesive to keep them in place? Chiseling the thinset off, then applying new thinset and re-grouting seems very time intensive... just wondering if there's a quicker way and more efficient to deal with this where it will still hold up

[jeromedawg]

I’m not sure what the material is behind the tile, and it could be that the surface isn’t meant for tile.  To me, though, it looks like there wasn’t enough thinset applied during the install.

Typically, you would need to clean off all the old thinset from the backer surface and the tile.  Then you would need to apply thinset again with a trowel.  Probably a 3/8 square trowel application for that size tile?  Push the tile back into place, making sure it sticks in there.  Clean out any thinset from your grout lines. 

It’s very difficult to match grout though.  Do you have the original?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is from the original install when they built the place back in 1989/1990 and we moved in in 2007, so I don't have any of the original grout.

What's the process for cleaning off the old thinset btw?

I know is this MMM, that looks like a standard 4x4 ceramic tile and if it is standard color those things less than $1 a tile at the big box store.

As for grout, I second the grout "paint suggestion" I have had good luck with custom building products paint/sealer.

These are 6x6 tiles and I think Daltile. I'm not sure which one of these though:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Daltile-Semi-Gloss-White-6-in-x-6-in-Ceramic-Bullnose-Wall-Tile-0100S46691P1/100677753
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Daltile-Finesse-Bright-White-6-in-x-6-in-Ceramic-Wall-Tile-12-50-sq-ft-Case-FE0166HD1P/207204189

[Papa bear]

You’ve also got the other thread going about fixing up to sell. I would do your best to reuse what you’ve got and see if you could put some construction adhesive behind there to get them to hold.  I’m assuming anyone who is going to buy your place will want to end up redoing / tearing it all out.

It’s not a long term or good fix. But you only need to make it look good enough to get through an offer and inspection.


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[jeromedawg]

You’ve also got the other thread going about fixing up to sell. I would do your best to reuse what you’ve got and see if you could put some construction adhesive behind there to get them to hold.  I’m assuming anyone who is going to buy your place will want to end up redoing / tearing it all out.

It’s not a long term or good fix. But you only need to make it look good enough to get through an offer and inspection.


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Something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-PL-Premium-10-fl-oz-Polyurethane-Construction-Adhesive-1390595/202020473

I already chiseled off the grout and tried taking the thinset off one tile, so not sure what I'm gonna do about that - I don't want to have to buy an entire thing of grout just to do a 6" line lol... guess I shouldn't have rushed into it *facepalm* - the thinset is such a PITA to remove... I couldn't even get it off for the most part so I just gave up. I'll probably just get the adhesive and glue back on what I can.

[Papa bear]

You’ve also got the other thread going about fixing up to sell. I would do your best to reuse what you’ve got and see if you could put some construction adhesive behind there to get them to hold.  I’m assuming anyone who is going to buy your place will want to end up redoing / tearing it all out.

It’s not a long term or good fix. But you only need to make it look good enough to get through an offer and inspection.


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Something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-PL-Premium-10-fl-oz-Polyurethane-Construction-Adhesive-1390595/202020473

I already chiseled off the grout and tried taking the thinset off one tile, so not sure what I'm gonna do about that - I don't want to have to buy an entire thing of grout just to do a 6" line lol... guess I shouldn't have rushed into it *facepalm* - the thinset is such a PITA to remove... I couldn't even get it off for the most part so I just gave up. I'll probably just get the adhesive and glue back on what I can.

Yeah loctite does a nice job.  that particular one does expand a bit when it dries, so that may complicate things.  Liquid nails might be better for this.


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[jeromedawg]

You’ve also got the other thread going about fixing up to sell. I would do your best to reuse what you’ve got and see if you could put some construction adhesive behind there to get them to hold.  I’m assuming anyone who is going to buy your place will want to end up redoing / tearing it all out.

It’s not a long term or good fix. But you only need to make it look good enough to get through an offer and inspection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-PL-Premium-10-fl-oz-Polyurethane-Construction-Adhesive-1390595/202020473

I already chiseled off the grout and tried taking the thinset off one tile, so not sure what I'm gonna do about that - I don't want to have to buy an entire thing of grout just to do a 6" line lol... guess I shouldn't have rushed into it *facepalm* - the thinset is such a PITA to remove... I couldn't even get it off for the most part so I just gave up. I'll probably just get the adhesive and glue back on what I can.

Yeah loctite does a nice job.  that particular one does expand a bit when it dries, so that may complicate things.  Liquid nails might be better for this.


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Ah ok, so it seems this might do the trick? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Liquid-Nails-Fuze-It-9-oz-Gray-All-Surface-Construcion-Adhesive-LN-2000/206736831

Any suggestions/ideas on the one tile I chiseled the grout off on? Should I just suck it up and buy some pre-mixed grout? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Custom-Building-Products-SimpleGrout-09-Natural-Gray-1-Qt-Pre-Mixed-Grout-PMG09QT/100676322

[Papa bear]

Know any DIYers that have a bunch of random grout still floating around their garage?  You don’t need much


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[jeromedawg]

Know any DIYers that have a bunch of random grout still floating around their garage?  You don’t need much


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I can certainly ask around! Yea it's a very small amount...