Removing floor / Plumbing water supply line question

[Roots&Wings]

Hi, I'm getting ready to remove the old vinyl flooring in my bath. There is a lot of gunk, which I'm guessing is plumber's putty, around the base of the water supply lines, which come up through the floor, and along the back wall. I recently replaced the shut off valves (didn't work) so I know there are no leaks. Galvanized pipe from the 50's.

Does anyone sees any issues with removing the stuff around the supply lines or know what this would be for? I can either chip it out and remove completely, or leave in place and cut the vinyl flooring around it.

Thanks!

[justajane]

What kind of flooring are you going to put in? How long do you plan to be in the house?

The reason I ask is because you're likely reaching the end of the life of your galvanized steel pipes. (http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/old-plumbing-usually-means-problems.shtml)

We just removed ours. They leaked twice over the past 10 years. They were a corroded mess. There are only so many repairs you can do, and repairs are $$$$, especially considering the fact that they don't fix the problem.

I know this isn't what you want to hear. But if you're going to be in this house for a long time.....

[Roots&Wings]

Interesting! The plumbing was 'good' in the home inspection except for an iron drain pipe section. A neighbor's galvanized piping from the 30's is still fine. That's good to consider though.

Flooring will be tile. Fingers crossed the original tile under the vinyl is salvageable; if not, it'll be a white hexagon tile like this one.

[justajane]

That looks like our bathrooms! Both have brand new Daltile hexagon in them. One is white with black accents, the other is 2X2 grey hexagon. Could you possibly one day replace the plumbing from a ceiling underneath? That would be cheaper than ripping out tile. I'm not suggesting replacing perfectly good plumbing, but galvanized steel (esp. the hot water supply) is notorious for causing problems down the line. Just keep it in mind as you move forward. If you do repairs yourself, it's probably not a big deal, but we had to hire a plumber twice to the tune of at least 1K when all was said and done. And we were just delaying the inevitable. In hindsight, I wish we had just gutted it earlier.

What's your stack like? Is it PVC? Cast iron? We just had to pull out a 1920s original cast iron out of the plaster dining room wall which was also carved into the exterior brick. It had a huge (ca. 1/8th inch) crack in it. Egad!

Ah, the joys of old homes. If your home is older, the tile might not be salvageable due to the house settling. Our original marble hex had huge cracks in it. It was painful to throw it out, but we didn't have a choice. We ended up leveling the floor and getting a whole new subfloor. Now the toilet doesn't slope, which is nice.

[paddedhat]

What you have is a horrendous attempt to dress up poorly cut holes in the vinyl flooring. It's so bad that the left pipe has a chrome plated escutcheon (trim ring) buried in the mess. Yes, you do need to remove all of that mess to continue. BTW, once you retile, there are "split escutcheons" that will do a nice job of trimming around the existing pipes, without disturbing them.

[Roots&Wings]

Ha! Judging by the rest of the bathroom, "dress up" is a fair estimation. Good to know this is only cosmetic and not something vital. Thanks so much paddedhat for taking a look.

Justajane, I have cast iron stack too. One story house with crawlspace underneath...replacing the supply pipes if needed shouldn't be too major down the road. A neighbor had this done for ~$2k. I would more than likely need a plumber for this (I'm not overly handy, but trying smaller projects). And yes, old houses and their joys!

Now I just need to remove that old vinyl flooring and see what's underneath...

[Roots&Wings]

Also justajane, how difficult was it for you to install the hexagon tile in your baths? Aside from the subfloor work which I imagine was an effort! I'm wondering if I can get away with tile snips only for cutting given the fairly small piecing, or if a wet saw will be necessary.

Any tips (or pics!) you might be willing to share are appreciated.

[paddedhat]

Ha! Judging by the rest of the bathroom, "dress up" is a fair estimation. Good to know this is only cosmetic and not something vital. Thanks so much paddedhat for taking a look.

Justajane, I have cast iron stack too. One story house with crawlspace underneath...replacing the supply pipes if needed shouldn't be too major down the road. A neighbor had this done for ~$2k. I would more than likely need a plumber for this (I'm not overly handy, but trying smaller projects). And yes, old houses and their joys!

Now I just need to remove that old vinyl flooring and see what's underneath...

When it comes time to replace those lines, you can save about 80% of that cost by DIY  with PEX. It takes two cheap tools, a ratchet cutter ($15)  and a crimp tool  ($40) . I use the stainless steel crimp bands, since the same tool works on every size pipe. Trust me, this work is slightly more difficult than hooking up a garden hose. You go as far as you want to go, as in back to the water heater, or to the valve at the city water meter, and use a pipe cutter to cleanly cut the galvanized pipe. From there it's a galvanized to PEX shark bit fitting (Push on, no tools, or skill) and the rest of the lob is just cut the flexible, easy to handle PEX, push it on to the fittings and use the crimper to tighten the band. If my dog had thumbs, she could do it. I'm sure there are many videos online, and all the tools and supplies can be sourced online for really good prices.

[Roots&Wings]

That is great info and very encouraging paddedhad! In my case, every project attempted to date has had some ridiculous setback (remove hideous vanity? No! Shut off valves don't work and have to be replaced first. Turn off water supply to the house to replace shut off valves? No! There is a special key at the meter that only the utility company can access (have since installed my own). And so on...

I'll just anticipate my usual luck and setbacks when the time comes. Wish my dog had thumbs too then it would probably go smoothly!

[justajane]

Sorry, we didn't DIY it. I don't think the guys had a wet saw, though it might be worth the cost to rent one for a day. HD has them for around $50 a day.

I would recommend the new Powergrout (http://www.tecspecialty.com/products/grouts/advance-performance-grout/Power-Grout-Ultimate-Performance-Grout.html#.VstX5fkrKM8). Apparently, unlike other types, you can mix just a small amount at a time, although, come to think of it, it sets much faster, so if you are going to DIY it, you might want something that doesn't dry as fast. It's really up to you, but my tile guys said it's all they use now. 

The hardest part with hex is that, because of the small size of the tiles, it's hard to get all the pieces entirely flat. The guys in our upstairs bathroom did a much better job than the ones in the our downstairs. There are some noticeable tiles that were set in at a slight angle.

Definitely dry set the entire floor first.

Someone actually put my bathroom on Pinterest a few years ago. Here's the tile. My new bathroom I'm going to post in a follow-up thread on here. The door's not on yet, so I'm waiting until we are absolutely done.

[paddedhat]

Jane is right, that great looking tile is going to need a wet saw. Buy a cheap table saw style unit from Lowes. Mine was $88 and I have done thousands of feet of floors with it.
I feel your pain with the shut-offs. If you do decide to tackle the plumbing, I have one firm rule. I never install a valve that isn't a 1/4 turn ball valve. In my area, with the hard well water, you have a fair chance of closing a washer and seat valve for the first few years after it's installed. After that, it's worthless. A ball valve will last forever and close tightly, decades from now.

[Roots&Wings]

Justajane, your bath is gorgeous! Like a magazine :) Appreciate the grout and dry laying tips.

Paddedhat, 1/4 turn ball valves it is!

Thank you both for your help and advice.

[Roots&Wings]

It took me some time, but here are the finished photos. 1/4 turn ball valves on all supply line shut offs and white hex tile from Lowes with grey grout. Took forever to remove the old vinyl floor and the original tile was damaged badly.

This forum is great, thanks again for the help.

[paddedhat]

Excellent job. It looks great, and it's done right, for a fraction of the cost of hiring a pro. Sweet.

[Roots&Wings]

Exactly! Total materials cost to redo the bathroom came to $570 (replace vanity, faucet, toilet, flooring, paint ceramic tile walls, misc supply lines/valves/drywall patch). Hiring pros would have been in the thousands. More money for me to invest and valuable know how for future projects :)

[justajane]

Looks awesome! Great job!