Remove iron ballusters from subfloor

[Le Poisson]

I'm stuck mid-project, and I don't like it. The project is simple - replace the hardwood floor in our hallway. I can do hardwood all day long. Not an issue.

The problem:

I pulled up the old hardwood, but where the balusters for our handrail go into the floor, the hardwood was thru-drilled, and the balusters go into the subfloor. I used a chisel to split the old hardwood and get it out, but the balusters are still there. The subfloor was mortised (square holes) to exactly fit the balusters. If I attempt to pull up the balusters, the subfloor wants to come up with them.

A contractor friend has suggested cutting the balusters off flush to the subfloor with a cutoff blade in a grinder, but that would mean replacing all the balusters - not something I want to do - or putting a shoe moulding on the floor to hold the new balusters in place - not a design feature I want to embrace.

Has anyone else done this job, and how did you get the danged balusters out? At least the house was well-built!

[paddedhat]

Cut the bottoms flush with the floor using a small Japanese style pull saw. I just bought a great one at Harbor freight for $8.  To reinstall, use dowel screws. These are screws with threads on both ends. I would first recut all the balusters to an exact length with a miter saw. This process would only take a whisker off each one, an give you a clean flat surface to work with. Then pre-drill both the floor and the baluster.  Next thread the fastener into the baluster, while holding the screw with a Vice grip pliers. Then install the baluster to the floor by twisting it by hand until it's tight.
Really old balusters were installed with a dovetail shaped pin and slid sideways into the opening. This was typically done on open stairways, and the ends of the stair tread, and exposed dovetails were covered with a piece of trim. It's possible that yours are dovetailed on the bottom, and trapped in place with an adjoining piece of subfloor. If this looks like a possibility, you might be able to pull a piece of subfloor and side the balusters sideways to free them?

[Le Poisson]

Thanks for a really good and detailed post paddedthat - but these are cast iron balusters - I think the advice you gave is for wood?

[Fishindude]

Can't you just leave them in place and neatly fit the new hardwood flooring to them?
Photos would be very helpful.

[Le Poisson]

Can't you just leave them in place and neatly fit the new hardwood flooring to them?
Photos would be very helpful.

Excellent point... very boring pictures:

1. The subject railing:



2. Floor attachment:



As you can see, the previous owner thru-drilled teh flooring to put teh railing over it - this looks slip-shod without trim. I have no idea how they got the railing out of the floor to do this... a possibility, they used PL or a similar adhesive on the install so that what was simple for them, is now impossible for me.

3. Railing attachment:



The railing is screwed to the handrail,and the balusters appear to be screwed into the rail. of course, I can't unscrew the balusters since they are mortised into the floor.

A new railing is uber expensive, so I'd like to salvage as much of the system as I can.

[Fishindude]

Why don't you make a nice wood trim piece a bit thicker than the floor and neatly fitted to each baluster, then butt the flooring into it.

[Le Poisson]

Yeah Fishindude - that's the shoe moulding idea - which I will do if I have to, but I'd rather not. I'd like a nice clean connection to the floor without a sill.

[lthenderson]

Typically balusters are secured to the floor with adhesive which is probably your case. Probably the easiest solution is to pull up the subfloor, scrape off the remaining adhesive and redrill the holes after you install new subfloor and your hardwood floor. You could use a saw to score the subfloor with a properly depth set skillsaw so you only have to remove a smaller section of the subflooring instead of entire sheets.

[With This Herring]

(Disclaimer: I don't know woodworking.)
Could you:

• Take a piece of your new flooring, set it to the outside of the railings, and cut out square notches for the position of each baluster, just deep enough to fit baluster
• Fit the next piece(s) of your wood flooring to the inside, aligned the same way, or at angle of choice

That would make a similarly-styled floor with no shoe molding and no cutting of balusters.

See beautiful rendering, attached.  (First attempt to attach a pic, so tell me if I can make it better.)

[Le Poisson]

Dear Artistic Fishmonger,

The trouble with the approach you suggest is with the buildup between the stairs and the railing. Typically, you would use a bullnose piece as an endcap to cover/hide the edge of the floor. Looks like this in real life:



The front edge "locks" on to the drywall on the side of the stairs, and the back edge locks into the next piece of hardwood. It is possible that the gods will smile upon me, and the distance from the edge of the stairs to the railing will allow me to notch the boards as you have drawn, but this is unlikely since the gods rarely smile upon me. However; your suggestion is valid. I'll check and see if I'm lucky enough to take advantage of it. Certainly it would be a lot of cutting, but it might work.

I think I'd build a sled and get a dado stack to match the railing width, then crack open a cold beer and cut away all day.

[With This Herring]

Dear Gold-Seeker,

Art will have its critics.  Watching a few episodes of "New Yankee Workshop" will only get me so far.

If you have a friend with the right kind of saw, you may be able to take that end cap piece (or another piece, depending on how these measurements work out) and cut down the width, then cut your own lock-notch along the cut edge (https://youtu.be/uKPDxOzVME0?t=3m38s).  This would be a royal pain, but it might work!

[paddedhat]

Thanks for a really good and detailed post paddedthat - but these are cast iron balusters - I think the advice you gave is for wood?

LOL, yea that was great advice, but totally useless for steel. If you want to give it a shot, take a few blocks of wood, a short post of scrap wood, and a small bottle jack and see if you can pop those things up from the subfloor. The other, uglier possibility, is that they were installed deep into the subfloor with some type of attachment point that you cannot see, since it's been sheetrocked over? Good luck, and thanks for the pic. I have never seen that particular installation.

[Le Poisson]

Dear Gold-Seeker,

Art will have its critics.  Watching a few episodes of "New Yankee Workshop" will only get me so far.

If you have a friend with the right kind of saw, you may be able to take that end cap piece (or another piece, depending on how these measurements work out) and cut down the width, then cut your own lock-notch along the cut edge (https://youtu.be/uKPDxOzVME0?t=3m38s).  This would be a royal pain, but it might work!

Dear Doer of Great Things with Small Scaly Vertebrates,

I have the saw to do that, but I wouldn't use it for the task. I would likely use a router table. But I would prefer not to since the width of the bullnose is close to the width of the floor boards in order to maintain consistency in one of the most visible parts of the floor. Its a good idea - but not for this spot. At least not in my opinion. But I'm not an interior designer, so wadda I know.

I just checked and the idea may actually work though... The bullnose has a 2" relief on the back, and the distance from the stairwall to the railing is 2-1/8" If I can add 1/8" to the bullnose, we're golden. I'm guessing a wee bit of trim might do that.

This is very lucky indeed. I'm off to buy a lotto ticket.

[With This Herring]

Dear Doer of Great Things with Small Scaly Vertebrates,

I have the saw to do that, but I wouldn't use it for the task. I would likely use a router table. But I would prefer not to since the width of the bullnose is close to the width of the floor boards in order to maintain consistency in one of the most visible parts of the floor. Its a good idea - but not for this spot. At least not in my opinion. But I'm not an interior designer, so wadda I know.

I just checked and the idea may actually work though... The bullnose has a 2" relief on the back, and the distance from the stairwall to the railing is 2-1/8" If I can add 1/8" to the bullnose, we're golden. I'm guessing a wee bit of trim might do that.

This is very lucky indeed. I'm off to buy a lotto ticket.

Dear Whiskered Fortune-Hunter,

Congratulations!  And when the lotto ticket idea pans out, be sure to send me my 20% commission.  I will add it to my 'stache.

Be sure to post in-process and finished photos!  I'd love to see it all done.

[Le Poisson]

Dear Doer of Great Things with Small Scaly Vertebrates,

I have the saw to do that, but I wouldn't use it for the task. I would likely use a router table. But I would prefer not to since the width of the bullnose is close to the width of the floor boards in order to maintain consistency in one of the most visible parts of the floor. Its a good idea - but not for this spot. At least not in my opinion. But I'm not an interior designer, so wadda I know.

I just checked and the idea may actually work though... The bullnose has a 2" relief on the back, and the distance from the stairwall to the railing is 2-1/8" If I can add 1/8" to the bullnose, we're golden. I'm guessing a wee bit of trim might do that.

This is very lucky indeed. I'm off to buy a lotto ticket.

Dear Whiskered Fortune-Hunter,

Congratulations!  And when the lotto ticket idea pans out, be sure to send me my 20% commission.  I will add it to my 'stache.

Be sure to post in-process and finished photos!  I'd love to see it all done.

My Fishy Friend,

I probably won't. Or if I do, it will be only the briefest of posts because, well, this isn't a very exciting project. My previous flooring work can be seen on our family blog here: http://frosthaus.blogspot.ca/2015/02/installing-hardwood-flooring.html I found the photo process really slowed things down, and the end product (the blogpost, not the floor) wasn't very rewarding.

Just for you though, I'll make it a point to update this thread a few times as I go. Or maybe I'll do that on my journal since its easier for me to find. I expect this thread to go dormant and then be buried on page whatever by Tuesday. Possibly sooner.

You can call me selfish. I don't mind - but I will do a mini update just for you, at some point, probably on my journal. See linky-poo below.

[BudgetSlasher]

I have two suggestions of how I would consider addressing this. I've never tackled a project like this so feel free to correct me/take what I am saying as thinking out loud and not gospel. Renovations often entail work arounds.

First:

If you are confident in your measuring and cutting skills; I would remove the railing from the baluster and see what the tops of the balusters look like. . . if you are lucky they may be a simple square the same size as the base.

If that case I would consider measuring the size and spacing of the balusters, precut the holes in a board and using a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer drive it down the balusters. Your will probably have to cut the tongue or bottom of the groove off of adjacent boards.

If the size at the top is different you could always devise some trim to place around the base of the balusters to hide the size difference.

Second:

Looking at your pictures I see the balusters are next to and (a few) at the top of the stairs; these are spots where your framing might be doubled or tripled up. I would think if the balusters go through the subfloor they also penetrate into the framing. If they are moving freely with the framing and or only sticking on the subfloor, if would consider investigating hour far away from the stairs (and past the balusters) the framing extends. Be a skilled knocker, use a stud finder, drill a line of small holes until you don't hit framing ect.

If there is sufficient framing beyond the balusters to support the subfloor and the balusters are not also stuck in the framing, I might consider cutting a strip off of the subfloor and letting it come up with the balusters. Then replacing and installing the hardwood over it.

[Le Poisson]

Beep-beep-beeeep BOOP BOOP... Breaking news on the flooring front.

THIS JUST IN.

I beat the crap out of the remaining pieces of flooring to remove them this morning, and in the process the balusters became more willing to release their hold on the floor. This is good news. I also removed the handrail, and revealed screws that hold the individual balusters in place. Removing a screw releases a baluster, and individually they come out cleanly. I am elated.

Bye Bye Handrail:


Hello Screws


A quick test of the bulnose



Overhang



So at this point the plan is to get a sheet of G1S 1/4" oak plywood, cut a strip about 2" wide from it and use it to face the wall under the railing. This will line up the bullnose precisely with the balusters so I can use Small Salted Fish's idea of cutting dadoes for the balusters to recess in. I can stain the strip to match the bullnose. I am elated, and am now turning my attention to treatment of the top stair's riser which is the next puzzle in this project, but one I already have a solution for.

[With This Herring]

Congratulations, sir!  Thanks for the update!

[Le Poisson]

Happy to say th efloor is well underway. I am not checking in on this conversation anymore, but you can follow my progress here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/prospector's-journal-the-prospects-are-good-the-discipline-needs-work/msg980611/#msg980611

[Fishindude]

Looks good !