Refinishing Hardwood Floors

[m2buke]

Does anyone have experience sanding and repairing hardwood floors? I'm a DIY guy, but have no experience here, so was looking to see if anyone could provide some insight... Is it a feasible DIY job for someone with no experience, or is this one I should outsource?

[Greg]

If you are ok with a polyurethane finish rather than the more toxic "swedish" finish, then you certainly can do it yourself.  It's a lot of work, removing trim as needed, sanding sanding sanding, then vacuuming (and vacuuming) and then you get to apply the finish.  I recommend a 4-disc random orbit floor sander with onboard vacuum dust capture.

I like the water-based poly because it's easy to work with and dries quickly, and the smell is not deadly.  Cleanup is easy too.  You basically pour it on, mop it out with a pad, doing small sections and keeping a wet edge to work back into.  You should try not to over-brush it, or you'll get bubbles. 

The first coat will soak in and raise the grain, so then you wait for it to dry and get hard enough to sand with fairly fine grit.  Then recoat.  A 3rd coat is a good idea for high traffic areas.   You'll know if you are sanding too soon by the balls of finish that form if it's too soon.

Depending on the size of your work area, you can work pretty quickly.  You'll need a palm sander and some hand tools for corners.

[m2buke]

Thanks, Greg. Yeah, I was more concerned about the sanding itself... I'm pretty committed to doing it, but wanted to see what those in the Mustache community thought. Thanks for responding!

[amha]

I've done it. It's not difficult, but it is a lot of work. Do rent a sander---I foolishly decided to save money by sand the floor of the 12x15 room I was refinishing using my handheld (18" x 3") belt sander. It took three days. An orbital floor sander would have taken an hour. I also wasn't able to reuse the baseboard molding, so I had to buy more, and stain that, too. (Maybe if I had been more careful I could have, but some of it split when I pried it out.)

It looks really beautiful now, though. The old floor was in really terrible shape---heavy traffic, poorly-housebroken-pets, etc. The beauty:cost ratio is really high.

[Zaga]

Is it bad enough to need sanded?  When we took out our nasty carpets (and were delighted to find hardwood underneath) it was just all sticky so we used a floor stripper then a poly finisher like Greg said.  Sanding wasn't the right choice for our floors.

It was very cheap for the impact it had on our house, however I had to do all of the stripping on hands and knees, DH has asthma and couldn't help me.  I could hardly use my arms for a week.  Worth it though!

[m2buke]

Sanding, I think, is the way to go in my case. There is extensive paint splattering and spilling all over the floor (looks like they may have use a paint sprayer with no protection to the floors) and looks like they had a sub-floor at one point in another area.
Appreciate all the input!

[MsGuided]

I'm wondering if anyone has filled in new hardwoods in an area that was not hardwood to blend with existing hardwood.  We have standard red oak floors we had installed about 7 years ago on our first floor with the exception of our kitchen.  I would like to put hardwoods in the kitchen now (and this time would love to be more Mustachian and do it ourselves) and blend it with the other hardwood we already have.  Has anyone out there done this?  We would need to remove the kitchen tile, a job we've done before.

Thanks!

[Abe]

Blending the hardwood can be difficult, especially if it's been a couple years. It's important to get the same brand of hardwood board and stain if possible. You will need to mix and match a few new boards into the existing floor near the kitchen entrance, and old boards into the corresponding area in the new kitchen floor. This breaks up the abrupt transition. Protect the old boards with 2 layers of painter's tape while staining the new floor.

[Greg]

Yes, weaving in new hardwood with old can be difficult.  Another, easier option is to create a border with a strip of new perpendicular to the old and proceed from there.  The new would probably never quite match the old anyway. This will make staining and refinishing easier.

[MsGuided]

Thanks for the advice.  It sounds a little daunting, but it helps to know what we're in for.  Good tips from both of you!

[Dynasty]

I HIGHLY recommend outsourcing the sanding of the floor to a reputable floor refinishing company.  Then you can finish the floor yourself.

It takes months and months of experience to get good at floor sanding. Otherwise, there is a great risk of ruining your floors. Or at the very least, the pros will leave your house dust free. That alone will be worth the cost of paying someone to sand them for you.

As far as a finish, I recommend Waterlox.

http://www.waterlox.com/

[MsGuided]

Thanks for the tip about professional refinishing.  The dust alone (in a place we are inhabiting at the time) seems like a real nightmare.  Wondering if you have an idea what a good deal would be for sanding only per square foot?

[Greg]

Dust control will be an issue for sure!  You may want to strategize and only do a part at a time, but this will make the rental time on the sander more.

Tape plastic sheeting up  and make sure to close any heat/return ducts.  Then, put a box fan in a window on low speed to draw the air out of the work space.  This will also draw air from the living space into the work space so that dust will be less likely to go the other way.  A piece of filter fabric or cheap furnace filter on the fan will help keep from spreading dust outside.

Also, test for lead, it can be found in clear finishes and if it tests positive you have a whole other problem to deal with.

[ScottEric]

Sanding, I think, is the way to go in my case. There is extensive paint splattering and spilling all over the floor (looks like they may have use a paint sprayer with no protection to the floors) and looks like they had a sub-floor at one point in another area.
Appreciate all the input!

Good luck with the paint!  I sanded our floors, which were covered in a different type of paint (thick, heavy oil based floorpaint).  The paint would kinda "burn" off and foul the sandpaper.  Since the disks/drums are usually returnable, you might want to get lot's of extra's of whatever grit you're starting off with just in case your paint causes a similar issue.

Definitely rent a good sander, the one I got from Home Depot was super easy to use and did a fantastic job of dust collection.  I rented a different sander from a local place and it was much older and a PITA to change the sanding belts.  The better rental was worth every penny.  Bring a helper with a good back to help get that the sander into your car/truck too if you can, it's substantial.

Scott

[Dynasty]

  Wondering if you have an idea what a good deal would be for sanding only per square foot?

$1 to 1.50/square foot. Maybe more, maybe less. Depends on the area you live in.

The way to do it is the sanding is scheduled so the guy who is doing it has the work set up in between bigger jobs. He comes in and can knock it out in a couple hours or a day depending on the size. Makes some money, and never has to come back to your house for any follow ups.

No mess.

Win for you. Win for him.

Once you figure in the cost of the rental of the machine, the cost of paper, figuring out what you are doing, the possibility of causing damage, and the mess it's really better to just let someone else take care of those details.  I don't think there is enough of a cost savings to do it yourself, unless you are super gung ho about doing it yourself.

I've seen DIY floor sandings. Some come out okay. Some are ruined. None have been great.

[MsGuided]

Thanks, Dynasty.  Sounds like you know what you're talking about.  It sounds like you think DIY staining (after professional sanding) turns out ok?  Would it be like double for the sander to also stain?

[Dynasty]

I have quite a bit of experience with refinishing woods.

Staining? Sure, I've done some. My preferred method of coloring wood is using either boiled linseed oil or tung oil.  I honestly don't like stains. Not because they are bad, just because I prefer the color of oiled wood. However, there are woods that don't really have much color to them and oil isn't going to help much. Such as pine.

DIY staining and top coating is definitely DIY friendly. I could write a tome on it..  It would be like five times more for the sander to do it is as well.

If I recall correctly, you said you have red oak flooring? What is the vintage of the home?

[MsGuided]

Our house is a 1977 suburban colonial tract home approx 2000 sq. ft.  We bought it from the original owners about 8 years ago.  There wasn't a speck of hardwood in the place when we bought it.  My dh and I ripped out all the wall to wall carpeting in the main living area and banged out some horrible tile in the entryway (that was a hard job, I guess b/c of the way they installed the tile there originally b/c we've removed other tile easily). 

Anyway, we bought unfinished red oak (as I recall it was one of the cheaper options (except maybe pre-finished floors) and had it installed everywhere on the first floor EXCEPT the kitchen, where we left some ok white tile.  We also had it installed on the steps and in the upstairs hallway.  The floor guys we hired let us choose the stain from about 3 options.  We went kind of mid tone.  The floors have held up well, but they are nothing fancy (some people have asked me if they're fake b/c there's no real separation b/w the planks, I think).  It's not that the floors really need re-finishing, it's that I'd like to install wood floors in the kitchen and have it blend with the existing floors.  So, I'm thinking we'd need to re stain the existing wood to make it look good.   

I think you have a good point about letting the color of the wood shine through.  I've only really seen linseed oil used on more vintage floors and it did look gorgeous.  Would that application work at all on our new-ish and very common type floor?

BTW I really appreciate your help!

[Dynasty]

Yes. The color linseed oil adds to wood is timeless, and will never be out of style.

A quality linseed oil can be purchased from American Rope and Tar. What is sold at Home Depot and Hardware stores is low grade, and poisonous.

Here's another link on waterlox I just found.

http://www.peteshardwoodfloors.com/Wood-Floor-Techniques-101/waterlox-an-alternative-to-polyurethane.html

If it were my floor, I'd get some extra pieces of red oak and do some experimenting. Color one piece with linseed oil. Do another piece with linseed oil and a waterlox top coat. A third piece with just waterlox. And the fourth left alone as test. And see what you like the best.  The waterlox may add all the color you need. 

Just to be clear, the linseed oil will add zero protection to the wood. It has to be top coated with something.  A less expensive alternative to waterlox is shellac.

[Spork]

Okay, this is sort of a threadjack... but is sort of on topic, too.   

Any ideas on how to finish hardwoods on stairs?  My concern is creating a slippery fall-on-your-head situation... and that I've got dogs that are likely to come skidding down in a ball of fur.   I've considered the runner-of-carpet option, but I REALLY like the look of just wood.   I'm starting from scratch here.  My stairs are currently just subfloor.


Edit to add:

...slightly back on topic... Remember if you use linseed oil to BE REALLY CAREFUL WITH IT!  It can (and will) spontaneously combust on rags you use to apply it or do clean up.  Put all your rags into a sealed metal container like an old paint can.

[MsGuided]

THANK YOU, Dynasty!  I think your suggestion is brilliant.  I want to do exactly what you suggest asap, just need to get my husband on board. 

Also, Spork, our stairs have wood that was installed professionally, the same as the rest of the floor, no traction or anything.  It's not slippery and we've had our kids up and down them since the age of 3.  Any falls do hurt more than on carpet, of course.  I think a subfloor tread would be the same.  BTW, I love having the hard stairs.  We are hard on carpet and the stairs in our last house looked horrible and dirty.  The wood does get particles on it a lot, but I just sweep them up and the wood looks as good as new again.

[Spork]

Dynasty:  how much does the linseed oil color change over time?  In other words: if I experiment with it and find something I like, do I need to plan on it darkening as it ages?

[MsGuided]

Oh yeah, Spork!  I have a friend who was flipping a house in our neighborhood & hired some sub contractors to work on some kitchen remodeling.  They left linseed oil drenched rags in the garage and it caused a fire.  I was so shocked by this bc I'd never heard of it before.  It caused a lot of damage and put him way behind on his flip.  Insurance did cover the loss, thankfully.

That's a good tip.  I wonder, though, when you put the rags in a sealed container, do you have to dispose of them like hazardous waste?

[Dynasty]

That's a good tip.  I wonder, though, when you put the rags in a sealed container, do you have to dispose of them like hazardous waste?

Nope. What I do is drench the rags with water in the can, close the lid, and forget about them. They eventually make there way to the garbage can after I remember about them again. By this time, the oil has cured and the rags are stiff.

[Dynasty]

Dynasty:  how much does the linseed oil color change over time?  In other words: if I experiment with it and find something I like, do I need to plan on it darkening as it ages?

It doesn't darken, it "ages" and get's better with time. Seriously. I have some new doors I finished with linseed oil and varnish and the color of them today is a lot deeper and richer than when they were first finished.

It's a very gradual color shift. The color doesn't change, but the tonal qualities become more intense.

[nawhite]

We actually just refinished about 400 sq ft of our floors at the end of July. We had parquet floors (wood goes in 2 directions in little squares) which look awesome but are a pain to refinish. We also had some bad warping of boards near an exterior door, so all of our quotes were coming in at like >$2000. So we decided to do it ourselves. Final cost for rental and finish and disposables was about $600 plus about 40-50 hours of labor total for complete beginners. We did all of the sanding over about 20 hours with 2 people working with just short breaks (took 6 passes OMG I hate parquet!!!). Applying the finish was about 2 hours per coat (3 coats in a low traffic room, 4 coats in a high traffic room)

We sanded ourselves with an random orbit pad sander because it is one of the only ways to do parquet well, but I would strongly recommend against them for a normal wood floor. Suck it up and learn how to use the drum sander. If you do use the random orbit pad sander, start with the most coarse paper you can get. Like if they sell 24 grit thats pretty good but you'll be lucky to find less than 36. If they tell you at the store that 60-80-100 is all you need they are full of shit unless you have no finish on the floor currently.

For the finish we went with Waterlox and it is AMAZING, but fairly toxic (get a good mask and ventilate well)

Waterlox pros:
When my dog scratches the floor I just spot treat the scratch with a paintbrush and more waterlox. You can't do this with polyurethane.
Looks great on the wood, really brings out the grain instead of just covering the wood up
I never need to sand the floors again, I just add another coat of waterlox (way cheaper in the long run)
Application is very friendly for beginners (minus the fumes)

Waterlox cons:
The original formula is really toxic. In my opinion, no people or animals should be in the house without a VOC compliant mask for 2-4 hours after applying each coat. After about 4 hours it still smells but its just the oil not the VOC's.
It takes a full 24 hours to dry between coats (more if you don't have fantastic ventilation)
No furniture on the floor for 7 days minimum after the last coat. (we only waited 7 days and the felt pads on the furniture kinda messed with the glossiness of the finish)