Author Topic: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?  (Read 3989 times)

Travis

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A couple weeks ago we went on a long road trip on my 2008 Prius and towards the end of the trip I got the low oil pressure warning light.  Since we were in the middle of nowhere I had no choice but to keep driving on it for at least 300 miles.  I got the oil changed (I was due anyways) and had the dealership do a complete inspection of the car.  I'm concerned about the age of the car (181k miles), the fact that I can't find any maintenance history from 105k to 160k when I bought it, and that I might have caused some damage to the engine running it low on oil.

They recommended a list of repairs which are quite expensive.  They didn't mention anything related to the low oil pressure, but that may take a while to show any symptoms.  This is what they recommended and the price they quoted:

A/C belt replacement: $133
Spark plug replacement: $222
Fuel injector cleaning: $173
Transmission flush: $247
Engine coolant flush: $220
Brake system flush: $173
Upper radiator hose replacement: $595
Lower radiator hose replacement: $311
Alignment: $124
Brake cleaning/adjustment: $85

These items do not include the four tires which probably need to be replaced in the next 1000 miles nor the shocks/struts which are the originals and likely due for replacement.

I listed this all out on PriusChat and their recommendation was to continue to monitor my oil consumption and performance for a while before committing to any of these repairs since I drove on low oil pressure for quite a while.  My question to the forum is what can I realistically do myself with little experience, what must be done, and what can be deferred?

Syonyk

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 05:01:12 PM »
Well, how handy are you?  If you're the kind of a person who, say, works at a Toyota dealership as a service tech, all of those are DIY.

If you don't have so much as a screwdriver at home, you might have a hard time.

The "Low oil pressure" light, on most cars, isn't so much a "low oil pressure" warning as "no oil pressure."  I'm quite surprised the engine didn't seize up, and there's a good chance that you did catastrophic damage to the motor with that stunt.  That's a "Shut down, NOW!" light on the vast majority of vehicles out there.  Usually it's low oil level, but not always.  Three hundred miles with that light on?  Does it sound like a bucket of bolts when you start it now?  I'd expect damage to the main bearings, and probably totally thrashed rod bearings, though admittedly I'd also expect a seized motor or a windowed crankcase (as in, the engine throw a rod through the side and made a window) for that sort of abuse.

Does it clatter if you rev it up and let off the throttle when warm?  If yes, you're looking at a total rebuild.

========

That said.

I think they forgot a few things on the list.  You're missing a muffler belt replacement, they aren't topping off the blinker fluid, and I think your turbo encabulator bushings are due for service too (those are all junk service items that don't exist).

A/C belt replacement: $133

That's probably the serpentine belt, which is likely a $50-$70 part.  How hard it is to replace depends on the vehicle, but it's often quite the pain.

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Spark plug replacement: $222

Really?  Wow.  A set of plugs is about $40 (iridium tipped), and it's a pretty easy service.  Looks like maybe half an hour if you've done a limited amount of car work before.

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Fuel injector cleaning: $173

There are two kinds of fuel injector cleaning: The worthwhile kind, where they pull the injectors, usually send them somewhere, and do a reverse flow ultrasonic cleaning bath, balancing, blueprinting, etc.  And the worthless kind, where they slop some liquid in the fuel manifold and in the fuel tank and it might make a very minor difference, but not much.

My guess, based on the rest of this, is that you're getting the worthless kind, for a nicely inflated rate.  You can toss some SeaFoam in the fuel tank for a lot less money, though, and accomplish about as much.

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Transmission flush: $247

This is a thing, though unless you've burned up the old fluid badly (it will be black and smell burned), there's no good reason to (and, if you've fried the fluid that badly, the transmission is probably already toast).  If the fluid is in good shape, especially on a Prius transmission, there's no reason to do this.  Replace the fluid if you want, which is messy... if it's in bad shape.

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Engine coolant flush: $220

See above.  Just replace the coolant if it needs replacing.  Drain and fill.  Probably $30 of coolant at your local parts store.

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Brake system flush: $173

"Bleeding the brakes."  Probably needs to be done, but $10 in brake fluid, a vacuum bleeder, and a jack lets you do this.  I have no idea what sort of nonsense you'd need to be doing to pay $173 for this.

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Upper radiator hose replacement: $595
Lower radiator hose replacement: $311

Apparently those are a genuine pain to replace, but unless they're showing signs of swelling or cracking, probably not needed.  The issue is apparently that it takes forever and a day to bleed all the air out of the system properly.  That's... still really, really high, though.

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Alignment: $124

That's fairly reasonable, though I doubt they'd actually do it if you took it in for it, given the rest of the list.

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Brake cleaning/adjustment: $85

... I don't even know what that is.  Lubing the caliper slides, maybe?  I'm guessing they'd find you need new brake pads while you're in there.

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I listed this all out on PriusChat and their recommendation was to continue to monitor my oil consumption and performance for a while before committing to any of these repairs since I drove on low oil pressure for quite a while.  My question to the forum is what can I realistically do myself with little experience, what must be done, and what can be deferred?

First, you need to find a better shop.  My gut feeling is that they're bending you over, badly.  I wouldn't pay that for most of the service, but then again, I have rebuilt engines.  So my skill level is definitely higher.

You really should get someone who knows what they're listening for to listen for rod knock after running that far with low oil pressure.  Oil consumption isn't the concern, it's the bearing damage.  If you've got bearing damage, it's not worth throwing any more money at the car unless you're attached to it, because it's going to need an engine rebuild (at which point someone will do most of the other work listed anyway).

Otherwise, do you have car-handy friends?  I'd be comfortable helping someone out with an awful lot of that, but most of my friends also work on vehicles, so wouldn't need much in the way of assist on that.  They might reach out to me for the battery pack, since I work on battery packs a lot.

Look for a local import shop and see if they agree with most of that.  Unless your car is nearly ready for the junkyard, that list is a load of inflated nonsense.

HipGnosis

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 05:32:19 PM »
First;
I MUST severely admonish you for driving 300 miles with the oil warning light on.  This is just so, SO bad of a thing to do!
Did you check the oil level?!?   If low (which was probably the issue since an oil change 'fixed' it), adding even cheap oil from a convenience store / gas station would be better than nothing.  Adding used oil would have been better than doing nothing...

You need to find a different, non-dealer, service provider.   If you have no one and no where to get a recommendation, go to google maps for your city town and search for "auto repair".  Look at a few of the ones it finds and note their review rating (0-5).  Call a couple of the higher rated ones and make an appt. with one that sounds friendly and professional.

Jenny Wren

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 06:13:28 PM »
I'm a Prius owner, and can handle very basic maintenance tasks without adult supervision.

First, listen to Syonyk. That whole post is wisdom.

Serpentine belt, spark plugs, and hoses -- all easy DIY jobs with the help of the appropriate Youtube video or a Chilton guide.

Low oil=very naughty to keep driving. It takes only a few minutes to check your oil and top it off if necessary. This task, along with changing wiper blades and tires, should be required knowledge before we grant driver's licenses in my humble opinion. Good news is that every Toyota I have ever owned has a very liberal oil light setting, which means it comes on well before you are in the danger zone. If your engine isn't behaving as Syonyk described, you are probably okay --BUT DON'T DO THIS AGAIN :) Check/topping off oil is easy peasy.

Brake stuff? Weird. Generally I only get those all done when it's time for a brake replacement. Maybe I'm just am gentle on brakes, but I've never experienced brake problems that weren't immediately attributable to the fact that it was time for new brakes.

Dealerships are rip-off artists. Always, never run into a single exception. Alignment and rotations are handled by my tire shop. They provide them free annually for up to four years with every new set of tires, I'd never take a car elsewhere for those tasks.

Other than that, look in your owner's manual. It's available online. Follow the recommended service intervals listed in the back. Question profusely when they "recommend" something not listed. Watch some videos or get the repair guide (Chilton) for your car.

Syonyk

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 07:19:19 PM »
First, listen to Syonyk. That whole post is wisdom.

Thanks.  I've been a "car guy" in the past, and still do an awful lot of my own work.  I don't own a Prius, though they have to be decent enough cars for how popular they are (the pastor at my church owns two - also, a proper truck and a large SUV, since he's got a big family and fosters).

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Serpentine belt, spark plugs, and hoses -- all easy DIY jobs with the help of the appropriate Youtube video or a Chilton guide.

The hoses sound like they're a bit tricky on the Priuses, with regards to bleeding the air out, but that's only one one generation (?).  I think.  Apparently it's just a pain.  Not difficult, but tedious and takes a while.

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Good news is that every Toyota I have ever owned has a very liberal oil light setting, which means it comes on well before you are in the danger zone.

Do you happen to know if it's a level sensor, by chance?  The RX-7s I've owned (goofy cars, absurdly fun to drive, before I learned about motorcycles) had two additional sensors that saved my rear end more than once - an oil level sensor (in addition to the oil pressure switch), and a coolant level sensor that would let you know if you're more than about a cup and a half low (twice useful for slow leaks, once rather redundant as I was quite aware a heater hose had just let go).

topshot

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 07:32:15 PM »
I'm surprised they didn't find a leak of some kind to be that low on oil. You do run full synth, right? How long had it been since last change?

While I haven't had to do anything on our Gen 3 Prius except change the oil (which is a major PITA compared to most cars unless you jack it WAY up), you should be able to do any of those tasks via PriusChat advice and videos if you're somewhat handy. I'd question whether some of those items really need to be done now, but you can learn what to look for.

If there is a noticeable decrease in fuel economy (discounting winter fuel blend or cold weather) I'd say you may have done some damage. Since your temp light apparently didn't come on I'd doubt there is any damage worth dumping the car for.

Travis

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
It's been about 10 days since the trip and I haven't heard or felt anything out of the ordinary from the car.  That night I would have pulled over immediately and bought some oil, but we were in the middle of nowhere close to midnight.  The nearest gas station to where we were when the light first came on only had the pumps on.  The alarm only came on during steep declines (which consisted of the last couple hours of our trip home) and turned off when we leveled out.  I've been thoroughly admonished in other forums for not regularly checking the oil level.  Up until this trip it hadn't come up as a problem.  I'll be checking it once a month from now on when I refuel.  I'll look around for another opinion on potential repairs.  Firestone came up with a few similar items (filters, belt, spark plugs, alignment, tires) when they changed my oil based on informal observation. On the inspection sheet they wrote "shocks leaking," but verbally told me "close to leaking." Toyota didn't mention the shocks at all.  Would you recommend going back Firestone for a formal inspection or find a less "corporate" place?

kendallf

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 08:12:34 PM »
If it was the master caution (red triangle, followed by the super informative "Problem" and eventually an oil icon) it's oil level, not pressure.  Eventually I believe there's an oil pressure warning if you run it empty or have other serious issues.  Haven't seen that on our Prii, have seen the oil level a couple of times.  Both of ours burn some oil, keep an eye on it and top it off, no big deal. I retract that, I was mistaken.  It is indeed a pressure warning.  I've seen it briefly on ours when cornering with low oil, topped it off, no big deal.  300 miles with it on would worry me.

Several other things on that list look suspicious or just ridiculous.  There's no AC belt.  The AC compressor is an electric motor run by high voltage AC power from the inverter.  The rest of the list is just a laundry list of (very expensive) routine maintenance. 

You can do pretty much everything on that list with very limited tools if you like.  I wouldn't bother with a fair chunk of it other than checking the hoses for cracking, hardness or swelling, checking fluid levels, and possibly changing the coolant.  The coolant bleed procedure is a bit of a PITA but it's doable with limited special tools -- I think Luscious Garage might have a video for it.  Look up Luscious for some great Youtube videos of Prius specific maintenance; good stuff.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:33:43 PM by kendallf »

topshot

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 08:21:41 PM »
There's no AC belt.  The AC compressor is an electric motor run by high voltage AC power from the inverter.
It's just Gen 3+ which has no belts. Gen 1/2 definitely have a serpentine belt.

kendallf

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 08:49:22 PM »
There's no AC belt.  The AC compressor is an electric motor run by high voltage AC power from the inverter.
It's just Gen 3+ which has no belts. Gen 1/2 definitely have a serpentine belt.


Gen 2 (the 2008) has a serpentine belt but it doesn't run the A/C.  The factory manual calls the A/C compressor the "electric invertor compressor assembly", it's beltless.  Here's an article from Luscious with a pic:

https://lusciousgarage.com/blog/270k_mile_prius_a_c_compressor_shredded/

They could have meant the serpentine belt but calling it the A/C belt is just wrong and sloppy.

Syonyk

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 09:25:24 AM »
It's been about 10 days since the trip and I haven't heard or felt anything out of the ordinary from the car.

That's a good sign.  Perhaps it's a very conservative oil pressure sensor, but aerated, bubbly oil doesn't oil very well.  On the other hand, a Prius isn't exactly a high stressed motor, and Toyota does build their motors conservatively.

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That night I would have pulled over immediately and bought some oil, but we were in the middle of nowhere close to midnight.

So, start keeping some oil in your car?  I normally travel with a quart or two.  And check the oil when you get gas until you get a feel for current oil consumption levels.

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Firestone came up with a few similar items (filters, belt, spark plugs, alignment, tires) when they changed my oil based on informal observation. On the inspection sheet they wrote "shocks leaking," but verbally told me "close to leaking." Toyota didn't mention the shocks at all.

Do you have maintenance records?  When was this stuff last done?  On most cars, you can safely guess that those things haven't been done recently, and be right often enough for the upsell.

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Would you recommend going back Firestone for a formal inspection or find a less "corporate" place?

If you can find a little import shop that's well reviewed, I'd go there.  Places like Firestone don't know the quirks of particular vehicles, they just know how to upsell services.  I wouldn't use them for general maintenance.

The dealership is better, but they're going to replace stuff on the published schedules, which is pretty much the point of those schedules.

Do you know any car people who could poke around it in exchange for a 6 pack of beer?

HipGnosis

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 10:33:49 AM »
Firestone ...  On the inspection sheet they wrote "shocks leaking," but verbally told me "close to leaking."
I'd luv to know how they know when shocks are "close to leaking."   They must have a shock psychic on staff!
I'd never go back to a place that wrote and then then said those things (I use to be a car guy, mostly an engine builder).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 12:46:21 PM »
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Would you recommend going back Firestone for a formal inspection or find a less "corporate" place?

If you can find a little import shop that's well reviewed, I'd go there.  Places like Firestone don't know the quirks of particular vehicles, they just know how to upsell services.  I wouldn't use them for general maintenance.

The dealership is better, but they're going to replace stuff on the published schedules, which is pretty much the point of those schedules.

Do you know any car people who could poke around it in exchange for a 6 pack of beer?
I'd advise against Firestone for anything but tires/alignment-type stuff.  They once quoted me $850 for some brake work.  I picked up the parts at Autozone that same day for $155 and did all the work that evening in about 3 hours, with only hand tools.

All those things the dealer mentioned (with the possible exception of the radiator hoses, which apparently are a pain on your car) are very easy to do, and are super overpriced by the dealer.  They're trying to take you for a ride.  If you haven't done much of your own work up to this point, this is a great time to start learning with minimal time or money commitment.

Travis

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 07:10:40 PM »
It's been about 10 days since the trip and I haven't heard or felt anything out of the ordinary from the car.

That's a good sign.  Perhaps it's a very conservative oil pressure sensor, but aerated, bubbly oil doesn't oil very well.  On the other hand, a Prius isn't exactly a high stressed motor, and Toyota does build their motors conservatively.

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That night I would have pulled over immediately and bought some oil, but we were in the middle of nowhere close to midnight.

So, start keeping some oil in your car?  I normally travel with a quart or two.  And check the oil when you get gas until you get a feel for current oil consumption levels.

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Firestone came up with a few similar items (filters, belt, spark plugs, alignment, tires) when they changed my oil based on informal observation. On the inspection sheet they wrote "shocks leaking," but verbally told me "close to leaking." Toyota didn't mention the shocks at all.

Do you have maintenance records?  When was this stuff last done?  On most cars, you can safely guess that those things haven't been done recently, and be right often enough for the upsell.

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Would you recommend going back Firestone for a formal inspection or find a less "corporate" place?

If you can find a little import shop that's well reviewed, I'd go there.  Places like Firestone don't know the quirks of particular vehicles, they just know how to upsell services.  I wouldn't use them for general maintenance.

The dealership is better, but they're going to replace stuff on the published schedules, which is pretty much the point of those schedules.

Do you know any car people who could poke around it in exchange for a 6 pack of beer?

Regarding records, the Toyota website has most of my car's history which i converted to a spreadsheet and added everything I've done to it over the last 30 months of ownership.  Unfortunately, there's a gap in the records from 105k to 160k when I bought it. Either that owner did everything himself or he took it into places that weren't affiliated with Toyota.  I reached out to the dealership where I bought it to see what records they might still have, but no response yet. I'll probably call them tomorrow if I remember.  There are a couple possible places nearby who could give me another opinion.  I'd have to ask if any of my coworkers are automotively-inclined to take a look.

jc4

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Re: Prius repairs. What can I do myself vs what must be done by professional?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 02:40:21 PM »
Background: I work at a desk looking at spreadsheets (Read: not a real mechanic). I own a corolla (Read: apart from the exectric system, similar to a prius).

Most of what you listed, I DIY. You can too. Watch someone fo the job on youtube. Decide if you can do what they do. That's what I do. (Read: if it's easy, I do it. If it's hard, I get a quote, realize it's expensive, then I do it. If it's really hard, I pay someone).

You already got this: those prices are way too high, and half of it you definitely don't need. At 180k miles, the other half you probably need given that you don't know how to take care of a car (Read: not an insult, just a fact). Don't go back to that shop.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!