Potential water damage from upstairs unit

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

I'm in a lower unit condo and I started hearing dripping last night. It was coming from behind the wall from my neighbor. After we shut-off her valve for water going into her unit, the dripping eventually stopped.

They turned the water back on and I thought I heard slight dripping but she had a plumber come out to check it out. He ended up pulling her fridge out and her water/ice line was leaking - the wood flooring right behind where the leak was looked warped and it seemed like it was damp back there. She said she's been noticing issues with her ice maker not working well and it has been "a while" - nobody knows how long. It seems this was a very slow and gradual leak. I just checked the cabinets above my fridge after all this and now there's a really small strip of water coming down on the frontside of the cabinetry. I had a box up there and it looked like water dripped onto the corner of it and saturated it but not all the way through, so it's evident that the dripping seeped through her floors (esp since it was near the back of the wall) and is coming in through our ceiling. In terms of how much, I don't know. I felt the surrounding area of the ceiling and it seems slightly damp/moist but I can't be for sure. It *seems* like it was a small area that was affected but I can't say for sure.

Is this something I should definitely push on her to have a water damage/flood person come out to assess and check? I think last time we had water damage they do the assessment for free with their gauge that they put against the drywall. 

[Syonyk]

Is this something I should definitely push on her to have a water damage/flood person come out to assess and check? I think last time we had water damage they do the assessment for free with their gauge that they put against the drywall.

Yup.

Don't screw around with mold.  Or the potential for mold.  Some of the mold varieties are super toxic to humans.

I vacated a rental and had to threaten legal action to get my deposit back after (I wish I were kidding) a "No-Burst" fitting upstairs burst and dumped a couple hundred gallons into my apartment, ceiling collapsed... all sorts of mess.  I wasn't about to mess around with mold, and the property management company wasn't exactly working with me.  A week after the event, they'd ripped out most of my apartment living room and still refused to return calls, and the mold in the bathroom kept growing.  I ran a city fire inspector through as a going away present (a friend of mine who worked construction expressed rather great concern about the assorted fire code violations of the place).

[jeromedawg]

I just noticed a small area of carpet outside of the wall where we heard dripping is now damp - the tack strips under are moist too, so there was enough overflow from the leak to seep outside the walls. Ughhh...

So is this something I should contact my insurance about at all? Or should she be contacting her insurance to file a claim with them first? What's the order? I was going to have a water damage guy come check it out tomorrow but we'll be out of the house. I was thinking of just delaying till Monday with all this to get an assessment on what it all looks like.

What a PITA....

[Syonyk]

Contact your insurance.

Give them her insurance info.

You don't want to fight insurance companies.  They're an awful lot better at fighting each other.

Open your windows and vent the place as well as you can, just in case there's already mold growing (there probably is).

[jeromedawg]

Contact your insurance.

Give them her insurance info.

You don't want to fight insurance companies.  They're an awful lot better at fighting each other.

Open your windows and vent the place as well as you can, just in case there's already mold growing (there probably is).

Is it worth having a guy I found myself come check the water damage? Or better to go with whomever the insurance company determines for the initial inspection and remediation?

Last time something like this happened it was far worse (well, as far as a I know at this point) and my fault (washing machine leak because I left the filter out while running a load). I think I ended up going with the company who my insurance recommended for the remediation. But I used a different contractor to do the repairs, etc.

[BudgetSlasher]

1) Let your insurance know. First, as has been said, if it turns into a fight with another insurance company you really want your in the loop. Second, at least our insurance, requires/wants you to file a report of anything that could become a claim (likely to blame you if you discover it and do nothing). Third, if you contact them later and you are already deep into the repairs they may not be able to determine the facts and it might not be a good thing for you.

2) Use whoever you want for assessment and repairs. Again our insurance has a list of approved contractors who can also to the estimate for how much the work will cost in addition to doing the work; otherwise our insurance will send out an assessor. It will be more work and time on your part if you have to deal with two parties and their schedules.

3) As you indicate you have a condo, you really need to determine the extent of your ownership. Some condos get funny on exterior walls and ceilings; sometimes you could own the entire wall/ceiling (jointly with the neighbor), half the wall/ceiling, just to the drywall, or just to the interior paint. Depending on the ownership, in addition to your insurance and her insurance the owners of the condo complex might also be involved.

4) If this were a fresh leak, I would advise against delay, the first 24-48 hours can be crucial to prevent the development of mold. Seeing as how this has been going on for "a while" the damage (and mold) have probably already been done, and  since the source of moisture has been ID'ed and turned off, the damage is unlikely to get significantly worse between now and Monday. Still opening the windows and getting some fresh air into the condo would not be a bad idea.

[jeromedawg]

1) Let your insurance know. First, as has been said, if it turns into a fight with another insurance company you really want your in the loop. Second, at least our insurance, requires/wants you to file a report of anything that could become a claim (likely to blame you if you discover it and do nothing). Third, if you contact them later and you are already deep into the repairs they may not be able to determine the facts and it might not be a good thing for you.

2) Use whoever you want for assessment and repairs. Again our insurance has a list of approved contractors who can also to the estimate for how much the work will cost in addition to doing the work; otherwise our insurance will send out an assessor. It will be more work and time on your part if you have to deal with two parties and their schedules.

3) As you indicate you have a condo, you really need to determine the extent of your ownership. Some condos get funny on exterior walls and ceilings; sometimes you could own the entire wall/ceiling (jointly with the neighbor), half the wall/ceiling, just to the drywall, or just to the interior paint. Depending on the ownership, in addition to your insurance and her insurance the owners of the condo complex might also be involved.

4) If this were a fresh leak, I would advise against delay, the first 24-48 hours can be crucial to prevent the development of mold. Seeing as how this has been going on for "a while" the damage (and mold) have probably already been done, and  since the source of moisture has been ID'ed and turned off, the damage is unlikely to get significantly worse between now and Monday. Still opening the windows and getting some fresh air into the condo would not be a bad idea.

Thanks, so I filed a claim and the water restoration company is on their way to assess damage.

One thing my claims adjuster told me was that we will be billed our deductible amount ($500) but he seemed to indicate this would be billed/ folded into the final bill at the end. In terms of whether or not we'll be responsible to pay that deductible amount, he mentioned this would be determined during the subrogation process where the insurance companies attempt to discover the root cause of the problem and if the neighbor was aware [negligent] or not etc.

Now I'm concerned that we're going to get screwed over into paying the $500 deductible (or) if the neighbor argues that it wasn't "negligence" because she didn't know there was a leak. There wasn't a puddle of water that came out from the fridge - nobody would have known about it unless the plumber pulled her fridge back to check (and of course the dripping sound I was hearing). But she did say that for a while she had noticed her ice maker wasn't working as well (of course this wasn't recorded and perhaps the only witnesses of this statement were myself and the plumber).

I'm a bit antsy and nervous with all this now - I just don't want to end up paying *anything* since the problem was 100% from upstairs. Or is this just one of the things where the facts and evidence will lend themselves to the truth? I'm not quite sure how this could be twisted so much so as to place any sort of blame being on us. On the other hand, I'm giving benefit of the doubt to my neighbor that she'll be honest throughout the whole thing... she's been relatively cooperative thus far and in the past (we have a slightly rocky relationship from the past from us complaining to her about heavy foot traffic/noise levels at times after they had hardwood flooring installed, but she has been cordial with us. I think she has felt somewhat bad with the issues she's caused us in the past: there was another 'leak' that occurred from her contractor's negligence years ago when they remodeled.)

[Syonyk]

...I'm not quite sure how this could be twisted so much so as to place any sort of blame being on us.

"Blame" has little to do with insurance deductibles.

I run a moderately high (few hundred dollar) deductible on my vehicles.  Regardless of whose fault damage is, below that, it's my problem unless I really, really want to go hunting them down (and if it's a hit and run that takes a mirror off, it'll still be a claim with my insurance for uninsured/underinsured motorist).

[jeromedawg]

...I'm not quite sure how this could be twisted so much so as to place any sort of blame being on us.

"Blame" has little to do with insurance deductibles.

I run a moderately high (few hundred dollar) deductible on my vehicles.  Regardless of whose fault damage is, below that, it's my problem unless I really, really want to go hunting them down (and if it's a hit and run that takes a mirror off, it'll still be a claim with my insurance for uninsured/underinsured motorist).

So in other words, it's just a "sunk cost" factored into "home repairs" where nothing could have prevented this as much as nobody can prevent a leaky roof?

[Syonyk]

So in other words, it's just a "sunk cost" factored into "home repairs" where nothing could have prevented this as much as nobody can prevent a leaky roof?

You don't have a home.  You have a condo.  And, pretty much, yes.

If you get out of it for only $500, consider yourself lucky.  Presumably the HOA fees for filing an insurance claim without proper authorization will be double that.

[jeromedawg]

So in other words, it's just a "sunk cost" factored into "home repairs" where nothing could have prevented this as much as nobody can prevent a leaky roof?

You don't have a home.  You have a condo.  And, pretty much, yes.

If you get out of it for only $500, consider yourself lucky.  Presumably the HOA fees for filing an insurance claim without proper authorization will be double that.

I'm pretty certain none of this requires authorization from the HOA because they tell us all internal walls are the homeowner's responsibility - I've asked/inquired about knocking down walls for remodel/renovation, etc prior to this.

Also, my neighbor above does have insurance - not sure if that changes anything...

[Syonyk]

I'm joking about the HOA. Slightly.

I've been told more than once that I'm what HOAs exist to prevent.

[jeromedawg]

As far as the repairs, we're having the claims adjuster write the estimate now. I'm wondering if I should use the same contractor I used last time we went through something similar w/ insurance - found them on my own after getting several quotes and they weren't the absolute cheapest but weren't the most expensive. I liked their work and was satisfied with it. Should I just go with them again or would I want to get additional quotes again?

The claims adjuster offered to have their contracted partner do all the work and they bill them directly too but since I already have a contractor who I used and trust, I'm not sure...

Also how are food reimbursements supposed to work in the case that we can barely use our kitchen? Is it supposed to be that they pay out per diem? The adjuster briefly mentioned to save all our receipts and we *thought* he said he'd pay the difference based on what our 'determined' average spending is on food daily (so if we normally spend $15-20 per day on food, he'd only pay us out if we spent *more* than that amount per day)? Does that sound right? Or is he supposed to just be paying us out a pier diem of $15-20 per day for the length of the remediation and repairs?