Author Topic: Old Wiring Part 2  (Read 736 times)

Montecarlo

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Old Wiring Part 2
« on: January 26, 2019, 11:34:51 AM »
What do my wiser friends think about this wiring?  What kind is it?  It seems to have a rubbery inner core, paper or cloth middle that's fairly brittle, and a tougher outer jacket you can't see in the picture.  Am I in die in my sleep territory?

Cadman

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 11:48:42 AM »
As long as the conductors are properly fused for their size and the insulation isn't deteriorating, you really don't have a problem here. The risk is when you start disturbing old wiring and damage brittle insulation. Even in that situation, repairs are usually made up to the point of damage rather than replace the entire run.

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 03:19:26 PM »
The previous owners "upgraded" the outlets to three prong types, which is what I'm correcting.  The gang boxes are also brittle and have snapped off the screw holes, so I'm replacing those if necessary.  I'm hoping my activities don't disturb the wiring enough to create a hazard. 

I know which outlets are properly grounded, but I'm converting the spare bedroom into an Airbnb room for events like Indy500, Big10 championship game, etc.

I suppose I could say screw it.  It's not like a whole lot of travel accessories are grounded anyways.

BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 06:42:31 PM »
Are you replacing them with GFCI receptacles and marking them as not grounded? If no what are you doing?

Curious as I have several old looking outlets that need replacement in my house.

Cadman

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 07:49:05 PM »
Are your old looking outlets worn out? Non-ground receptacles are still sold new and perfectly safe, but NOS (ebay) is cheaper and better built.

It's the bozos that buy new $.39 grounded receptacles and install them in applications where there's no ground wire/bond to 'freshen things up' that create a dangerous situation.

I believe arc-fault breakers are now required by code for bedrooms, but that might be for new construction only. Expensive, but probably not a bad idea for old wiring. Though no idea on what level of nuisance trips these might create.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 08:04:29 PM »
If i were working in those boxes I would place heat shrink tubing over the wires in the box to prevent the insulation from completely flaking off/act as a new layer of insulation.

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 05:42:26 AM »
Are you replacing them with GFCI receptacles and marking them as not grounded? If no what are you doing?

Curious as I have several old looking outlets that need replacement in my house.
No, I was just replacing with the old two prong style plugs.  would GFCI be safer?  I thought those needed a ground to work

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2019, 05:49:42 AM »
Are your old looking outlets worn out? Non-ground receptacles are still sold new and perfectly safe, but NOS (ebay) is cheaper and better built.

It's the bozos that buy new $.39 grounded receptacles and install them in applications where there's no ground wire/bond to 'freshen things up' that create a dangerous situation.

I believe arc-fault breakers are now required by code for bedrooms, but that might be for new construction only. Expensive, but probably not a bad idea for old wiring. Though no idea on what level of nuisance trips these might create.

What is NOS?

The prior owners replaced all the 2 prong outlets with 3 prong ones, obviously ungrounded.

These are all running off a fuse subpanel.  I used arc fault on one new circuit I ran, but I had easy access to those outlets through the unfinished portion of the basement.

Cadman

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2019, 09:36:29 AM »
Are your old looking outlets worn out? Non-ground receptacles are still sold new and perfectly safe, but NOS (ebay) is cheaper and better built.

It's the bozos that buy new $.39 grounded receptacles and install them in applications where there's no ground wire/bond to 'freshen things up' that create a dangerous situation.

I believe arc-fault breakers are now required by code for bedrooms, but that might be for new construction only. Expensive, but probably not a bad idea for old wiring. Though no idea on what level of nuisance trips these might create.

What is NOS?

The prior owners replaced all the 2 prong outlets with 3 prong ones, obviously ungrounded.

These are all running off a fuse subpanel.  I used arc fault on one new circuit I ran, but I had easy access to those outlets through the unfinished portion of the basement.

Sorry, NOS=New Old Stock. Here's such a listing, though shipping seems high, but you get the idea. These are bakelite/phenolic rather than today's temp-sensitive thermoplastic.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-5-NOS-Vintage-2-Prong-Duplex-Outlets-4-Sylvania-1-Sears-Ivory-See-Pix/273671766492

I'd avoid GFCI if you can help it.

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 09:59:50 AM »
Sorry, NOS=New Old Stock. Here's such a listing, though shipping seems high, but you get the idea. These are bakelite/phenolic rather than today's temp-sensitive thermoplastic.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-5-NOS-Vintage-2-Prong-Duplex-Outlets-4-Sylvania-1-Sears-Ivory-See-Pix/273671766492

I'd avoid GFCI if you can help it.

What's the advantage of that over a 2 prong I can get at Lowes?

Cadman

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2019, 07:24:55 PM »
Better product at a cheaper price. Our Lowes gets at least a couple bucks a piece for the new ones. Meanwhile, the older phenolic ones aren't really in demand in today's world so usually go for a pittance in bulk. Though in the end it'll depend on how many you need and if you want to navigate a sea of delusional sellers.

Evildunk99

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2019, 01:13:50 PM »
Is your wiring knob & tube?

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2019, 01:26:39 PM »
Is your wiring knob & tube?

Mix of cloth? and romex. 

Evildunk99

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2019, 01:50:12 PM »
https://www.nachi.org/knob-and-tube.htm

The age of your home is why I brought it up.  If you got your home inspected during the buying process, it would (should) have been noted.  Removing & replacing it with modern romex can be quite expensive. 

Montecarlo

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Re: Old Wiring Part 2
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2019, 03:55:14 PM »
https://www.nachi.org/knob-and-tube.htm

The age of your home is why I brought it up.  If you got your home inspected during the buying process, it would (should) have been noted.  Removing & replacing it with modern romex can be quite expensive.

No knob and tube.  A mix of what I think is cloth and romex.