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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Do it Yourself Discussion! => Topic started by: reader2580 on November 13, 2015, 12:31:33 PM

Title: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 13, 2015, 12:31:33 PM
I need an oil change.  I looked at five quarts of oil and a name brand costs $15 for five quarts.  I actually need six quarts for my engine so I need to spend another $3 or $4 on top of that.  It costs $7 for a Wix filter for my car.  I'm at $25 or more plus tax for just supplies.  I can usually get my oil changed at a shop for about $25 out the door.  The biggest issues are scheduling and the time wasted waiting which is often a hour.  (I can get get Wix filters for $2 from Rock Auto, but I can't wait.)

Does it make sense to do your own oil change if a shop can do it for the same or less money?  The DIY advantages are doing it on your schedule and no waiting plus no grease monkey stripping the plug.  DIY disadvantages are getting rid of the oil and generally getting dirty from the oil.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Bracken_Joy on November 13, 2015, 01:45:32 PM
DH does it for us. I always used to pay to have it done, because I thought it was a wash. What I have found is my car runs better, sounds better, and the oil lasts longer before looking old. DH told me a lot of shops don't replace all the oil, just drain ~2/3 then top it from there, because of the time constraints. Not to mention the grease monkey plug stripping issue you mentioned.

A recent one we started doing: you can get oil through amazon subscribe and save, so we're getting 15% off and having it shipped to us.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Ftao93 on November 13, 2015, 01:56:05 PM
For me I pay.  We have 3 scooters and a motorcycle, but no garage.

The act of doing it is stupidly easy on the bikes.  But then I have to store it, do it all outside in the elements, and deal with disposal.  Shop fees are painful, as they change a plug, air/oil filter if applicable, and give it a once over.

However, I'm planning on bribing a friend who is not only in possession of a garage, but also likes working on scooters, into helping me.  Double win that I get to learn more about doing maintenance while also not freezing to death.  He has a small oil drum that he can fill before taking it back to the auto parts store for free recycling.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Jack on November 13, 2015, 02:03:02 PM
DIY disadvantages are getting rid of the oil...

This should not be a problem. Generally, any place that sells motor oil will also accept used oil for recycling for free.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: skeeder on November 13, 2015, 02:03:22 PM
I normally do it unless I need something else.  One vehicle I haven't done it yet since I haven't bought a way to get under it yet.  The other I normally just jack up to do.

It saves alot of money if you synethic oils.  After some time in the shop, I know Synthetic doesn't break down as quickly as organic oil.  I can longer between changes.  So on my current car, (Saturn SL2) I currently go about 5k between changes.  About twice a year.  Worth the extra $10 on oil in my opinion.  That being said, I buy 10k filters.  One of my oil changes is literally--just the oil.  That saves more money. 

Check your brands, FRAM makes great filters that I've used for years.  Their sub 5k mileage basic filter clocks in at $3.77 at walmart (a PH3316 for me) watch for sales on oil--Slickdeals.com often has them.  Buy in a gallon/change size rather than per quarter--it is normally cheaper.  My average cost to do a semi-synthetic oil on my car is about $20 in oil and $5ish for the filter.  Organic would be even cheaper.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Bearded Man on November 13, 2015, 02:35:14 PM
Pay for it. At $30 it's cheaper to pay for that, fluid top offs, 100+ point safety check, interior vacuuming and exterior wash, than it is for me to do it myself. I sit in the lobby reading IT books to learn new skills while I wait....
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 13, 2015, 02:40:28 PM
I have an oil life monitor in my car so I just change the oil when it indicates.  I usually get 7,500 miles or so on an oil change.  I don't think synthetic will help unless I just ignore the monitor, but I really don't want to do that.  I would never use a Fram filter.  I can actually get a Wix filter for less than a Fram.

Any auto parts store will usually take drain oil, but getting it there without a mess is not the most fun.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: lthenderson on November 13, 2015, 03:17:11 PM
I pay to have mine changed but mostly because the oil filters are about impossible to get to when I have my car on ramps. It is like they were designed for someone standing upright underneath the car or someone with much skinnier arms than I have. I still remember those days when I could practically stand in the engine bay and see all the way to the floor all the way around the engine. In our area, one of the oil changing places will come pick up your car at your place of employment, change the oil and return it. Pretty handy if you have a nine to five job.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: ketchup on November 13, 2015, 03:25:41 PM
I always do it myself.  It's faster than driving to the Shitty-Lube, this way I know some moron didn't overtighten my drain plug with an impact wrench, and I know that I'm not using Z-grade oil.  Total dollars expended is probably slightly less, but that's not the main reason I DIY.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Spork on November 13, 2015, 05:36:18 PM
I normally do it unless I need something else.  One vehicle I haven't done it yet since I haven't bought a way to get under it yet.  The other I normally just jack up to do.

I see this a lot.  I have never understood it.  I have never jacked or lifted a vehicle to change oil.  I've had a ton of vehicles, one of which is extremely low to the ground.  I always just use a low profile catch pan and reach under.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on November 14, 2015, 03:02:40 AM
I see this a lot.  I have never understood it.  I have never jacked or lifted a vehicle to change oil.  I've had a ton of vehicles, one of which is extremely low to the ground.  I always just use a low profile catch pan and reach under.

I've got an oil change for my Eclipse on today's schedule.  This one I do myself.  Great opportunity to check other stuff at the same time.  I need to tighten the oil cooler hose clamps (the tend to loosen up over time), which you can only get at when the oil filter is off, check the front lower control arm balljoints (a wear part on this car, I think it's a poorly designed part), check my oil pressure gauge sender connection (it also likes to work loose and I've seen the gauge drop off a couple times recently without the light coming on...  The light has it's own sender), and check the front brake pad thickness (I'll have to pull the wheels for that, still can't find a way to do it with them on the car unlike my other car).

I've tried, but I just can't get it done without lifting it.  There's just not enough room, even for a simple oil change.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Kaplin261 on November 14, 2015, 06:35:45 AM
In my younger years I worked in the Tire Lube Center at Walmart. Walmart has cameras in the pit watching everything the technician does to your car for liability issues. They have gone to great lengths to insure quality control, specs for torque on drain plugs(yes technicians at walmart use torque wrenches). They also have a shop manager that goes behind every technician and has a checklist that they have to sign off on.

I would trust walmart with my car over a shadetree mechanic anyday because they have gone to great lengths to prevent lawsuits. Out of the 8 months I worked in that garage I only witnessed one incident where someone forgot to put the oil cap on top of the motor. Cameras were checked and indeed it was the technician who forgot to do this, Walmart quickly resolved the issue paying for a new motor and a rental car for the duration of repairs.

You can also do your grocery shopping while the car is being serviced.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 14, 2015, 06:57:43 AM
Walmart is eliminating Tire and Lube services at new stores.  They just opened a new Walmart store locally to replace one without full grocery and it has no Tire and Lube like the old one did.  A manager said Walmart can't keep auto techs so they are getting out of the auto service business at new stores.  There are five fairly new Walmart stores in my area and none have auto services.

It is good to hear that at least some tire and lube places video everything that is done.  I'm still not sure what to do about an oil change for my car.  If I do it this weekend I have to drive into town to either get it done or to buy oil and a filter.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on November 14, 2015, 04:46:25 PM
As an interesting side note, I did a timestudy on today's oil change, which I can compare against taking it to the shop.

Shop = 20 minute drive there, 1.5 hours for oil change (worst case, 1 hour is more typical), and 20 minute drive home.  So, 2:10 worst case.

My oil change today was: 45 minutes to get the oil and filter (I bicycle to the place with the oil and walk to the place with the filter).  1.75 hours to do the oil change and inspection (space is cramped, I have to set the car back down, move it, and lift it again to do the brake & suspension inspection on the other side).  Then, 30 minutes to take the oil in for recycling.  3 hours total.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FrozenAssets on November 14, 2015, 06:26:56 PM
I do oil change mystery shops. "Free" oil changes for the low cost of <30 minutes of my time inputting detailed reviews of the companies. :)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Spork on November 14, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
As an interesting side note, I did a timestudy on today's oil change, which I can compare against taking it to the shop.

Shop = 20 minute drive there, 1.5 hours for oil change (worst case, 1 hour is more typical), and 20 minute drive home.  So, 2:10 worst case.

My oil change today was: 45 minutes to get the oil and filter (I bicycle to the place with the oil and walk to the place with the filter).  1.75 hours to do the oil change and inspection (space is cramped, I have to set the car back down, move it, and lift it again to do the brake & suspension inspection on the other side).  Then, 30 minutes to take the oil in for recycling.  3 hours total.

I'm not sure that is a fair comparison.  Don't get me wrong: There's nothing wrong with what you're doing.  But I don't think the oil change place is going to do a brake/suspension inspection.   

If it were me:
* 0 minutes for oil and filter.  I buy filters off Amazon.  Oil I get when it's on sale at Sams, but buy with other groceries.  I usually buy 4+ oil changes worth at a time.
* 20 minutes for oil change.  I do  inspections with tire rotations.
* 15 minutes for recycling, but not with every change.  I recycle about 10 gallons at a time, so however many changes it takes to get 10 gallons.  (The 200 hour changes on the tractor will be almost 10 gallons, but that doesn't happen that often.  So, to average it out, we're probably talking 3-4 minutes per change.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: m8547 on November 14, 2015, 10:36:02 PM
I see this a lot.  I have never understood it.  I have never jacked or lifted a vehicle to change oil.  I've had a ton of vehicles, one of which is extremely low to the ground.  I always just use a low profile catch pan and reach under.

On my current vehicle it's more than an arm's reach from the outside to the oil drain plug. It's a bit behind the center of the tires, so I can't reach it from the sides or front. And it's up about 3 inches from some other stuff around it. It's a SUV, so I can fit under without jacking it up, but it's not comfortable. Plus I have to take off the skid plate to change the filter, and it doesn't come off easily without jacking it up first. It only takes a couple minutes, so I don't mind.

I do it myself that way I know it's done right (or it's my fault if it's not), plus I like to learn about how things work, and it lets me spot problems early. For example, a while back I noticed that a CV boot was loose, so I re-clamped it. Another time when I was rotating my tires I pulled a shard of metal out of the tread. I doubt a tire shop would have taken the time to look for that.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on November 14, 2015, 10:49:48 PM
Can do it myself easily. Fortunately, I am very capable of working on cars and all that stuff. However, calculations show that the difference is not very significant if I take the car to the shop. I put less miles on a car in 1 year (moved closer to train station) than oil life (10k mi, full synth). May be I will consider it next time, we'll see.
Everything else (except electronics) is DIY
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on November 15, 2015, 04:03:57 AM
I'm not sure that is a fair comparison.  Don't get me wrong: There's nothing wrong with what you're doing.  But I don't think the oil change place is going to do a brake/suspension inspection.   

They do, it's a dealership, and that's part of why it takes them so long.  They've caught a few things over the years based on the sheer volume of the types of cars that I had missed.  That's one nice feature of going to a dealership that is often overlooked, they get all the TSBs from the manufacturer and can keep their eyes out for those issues.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Greg on November 15, 2015, 02:51:26 PM
Some shops do a nice checklist of inspections, some don't, some say they do and don't, some upsell you on things you don't need.  It varies even within shops, even at dealerships.

I do my own wrenching so oil changes are easy-peasy and give my an excuse to check over other things, just like a tech at a shop should do.  I choose my own oil and filter brands, and take the old oil and filter to the local dump's hazo-house for recycling while I'm going there anyway to get rid of debris from my remodeling jobs.

I'd do it if you enjoy it for the reasons above or others, if not just pay to get it done.  Long term I think it's better to do your own, but many people don't keep cars that long anymore.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BudgetSlasher on November 15, 2015, 04:07:24 PM
My Car:

Still under warranty (as is the current car): Dealer does the servicing (that way if there is ever a dispute over lack of maintenance causing the issue there are records).
Out of warranty: I do it.

The Wife's Car:
 
Still under warranty: see above
Out of warranty: due to her driving load and our work schedules the only way to ensure it is done in a timely fashion is to farm it out.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 15, 2015, 07:45:31 PM
Check your brands, FRAM makes great filters that I've used for years.  Their sub 5k mileage basic filter clocks in at $3.77 at walmart (a PH3316 for me) .

Sorry, but like many who have had issues with them, I strongly believe, based on my experience, and reported failures, that the very worst thing you can ever do when changing your oil is use a total piece of shit, low grade Fram filter. I was plagued by horrendous top end rattling on startup, every time one of our cars sat for longer that half a day, or so. We left it parked for a week one time, and I thought it would grenade after it started, since it had such a death rattle. After much testing and research, I determined that the crap, anti-drainback valve on the Fram fails quickly and frequently. This allows the oil to drain out of the entire valve system, and results in dry, nasty, damaging startups. Once I started spending the same amount of money for a quality Purolator filter, the issue was resolved immediately. There are, BTW, hundreds of reports available of others having the same issue with the economy grade Fram filters.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BudgetSlasher on November 15, 2015, 08:02:01 PM
Check your brands, FRAM makes great filters that I've used for years.  Their sub 5k mileage basic filter clocks in at $3.77 at walmart (a PH3316 for me) .

Sorry, but like many who have had issues with them, I strongly believe, based on my experience, and reported failures, that the very worst thing you can ever do when changing your oil is use a total piece of shit, low grade Fram filter. I was plagued by horrendous top end rattling on startup, every time one of our cars sat for longer that half a day, or so. We left it parked for a week one time, and I thought it would grenade after it started, since it had such a death rattle. After much testing and research, I determined that the crap, anti-drainback valve on the Fram fails quickly and frequently. This allows the oil to drain out of the entire valve system, and results in dry, nasty, damaging startups. Once I started spending the same amount of money for a quality Purolator filter, the issue was resolved immediately. There are, BTW, hundreds of reports available of others having the same issue with the economy grade Fram filters.

My last vehicle was a Dodge-Cummins and Fram has pressure failure issues which caused engine damage . . . needless to say I'd rather pay a few bucks more to have a filter that works.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 15, 2015, 08:06:42 PM
I do my own oil changes in my car that is out of warranty. Always Mobil 1 synthetic and a filter (I prefer OEM or WIX), always less than $30. That's equivalent to about an $80 synthetic oil change most places.'

I've owned this car for going-on 15 years and I've done an average of three oil changes per year. That's $90/year vs. $240 a year and $1350 over the life of the car vs. $3600 for paying to have it done.

In many cases, i catch things going wrong under the car before something really bad happens, or when something does happen, I already can visualize the why of it and fix it. I check the CV joint boots every time. I check various seals and the serpentine belt. I often replace lost fasteners, broken cable and hose ties, degrading rubber parts, etc.

Example: I know right where the O2 sensors are and can replace them lickety split if I ever need to. I also check brake pad life while I'm at it.

Quote
After much testing and research, I determined that the crap, anti-drainback valve on the Fram fails quickly and frequently. This allows the oil to drain out of the entire valve system, and results in dry, nasty, damaging startups. Once I started spending the same amount of money for a quality Purolator filter, the issue was resolved immediately. There are, BTW, hundreds of reports available of others having the same issue with the economy grade Fram filters.

My last vehicle was a Dodge-Cummins and Fram has pressure failure issues which caused engine damage . . . needless to say I'd rather pay a few bucks more to have a filter that works.

I thought the cheap Fram filters had NO drainback valve and that's why the problem? I do know their more premium versions advertise having a drainback valve.

Why not always use the OEM filters? It's easy for me to order those for my somewhat-rare vehicle online from Honda. I always keep 'em in stock in my home garage.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 15, 2015, 08:31:42 PM

I thought the cheap Fram filters had NO drainback valve and that's why the problem? I do know their more premium versions advertise having a drainback valve.

Why not always use the OEM filters?

IIRC, when I looked into the issue, the base model Fram was built with a cardboard drainback valve, which obviously is incapable of performing the task for the duration.  As for the OEM filters, it probably would be a bit of an upgrade, but the Purolators are commonly available and priced right. I have a CRV that gets Mobil 1 every 5000 miles, so I would guess that the difference between the two filters isn't of any real significance. I guess I could devote a few hours to geeking out on the subject, and research it, but I haven't yet.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Jack on November 16, 2015, 08:19:50 AM
With oil filters you get what you pay for, and that holds true for Fram more than most.

Cheap orange Fram filters suck really, really bad.

(Relatively) expensive Fram Ultra filters are really, really good.

On my cars, I use Fram Ultra along with synthetic oil and extended oil change intervals.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 16, 2015, 08:27:49 AM
With oil filters you get what you pay for, and that holds true for Fram more than most.

Cheap orange Fram filters suck really, really bad.

(Relatively) expensive Fram Ultra filters are really, really good.

On my cars, I use Fram Ultra along with synthetic oil and extended oil change intervals.

+1  Here's an example study that supports your point about 70%:
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

I like this study because it supports my contention that Purolator and WIX filters are good. Those filters are made here in North Carolina, USA, about a 3 hour drive from me. Yay!

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/637158-official-oil-filter-testing-results-thread-4g63t-4b11t.html

This study claims the WIX filters are made in Mexico. I'm quite sure of the information I state above but I suppose it's possible they've got more than one plant making these filters.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Fishindude on November 16, 2015, 09:15:57 AM
I pay $40 at the Quick Lube place, could do it myself for about $25.
For the $15 difference, I don't mind paying them for an oil change every so often.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 16, 2015, 09:29:28 AM
I pay $40 at the Quick Lube place, could do it myself for about $25.
For the $15 difference, I don't mind paying them for an oil change every so often.

Wait till they do one of these mistakes:
- overfill the oil
- underfill the oil
- forget to change the filter
- take something off and forget to put it back on
- grab the wrong oil drain plug and force it into your oil pan

DW had a Dodge Minivan once. I kept trying different oil change places looking for someone who didn't screw things up and every time, it was just a different mistake.

How do I know these things? After each oil change, I rolled the minivan up on the ramps I used for my Honda Insight oil changes and checked.

When I started to get suspicious, I started marking the old oil filter: I found my marked oil filter still on the engine after one of these "oil and filter changes".

The wrong oil drain plug was this big yellow thing, looked like it came out of a diesel engine. Fortunately it was also too short and didn't strip the threads completely. I went to Advance Auto, got the correct oil pan plug and replaced it.

Of course, I had to drain all the oil and didn't put it back in, so that oil change cost us double. Since then I've never gone back to an oil change place.

I'm telling you: They hire high school pothead dropouts to do this work who hate your middle class guts because they think they've been "given a bum deal". They laugh when they try to get away with this stuff. I went back a couple times trying to get things made right but management took Pothead Dropout's side because once you find something and fix it, how can you prove THEY did it?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Fishindude on November 16, 2015, 09:38:04 AM
I did have them strip the drain plug one time and noticed a drip.  They repaired it promptly, no charge.

Unless you are some sort of master mechanic, the possibilities for mistakes or troublesome issues are there no matter if you are hiring the this out or doing the work yourself.  I think those risks / fears are far over stated.

What about the risk of personal injury doing it yourself?
Been a lot of shade tree mechanics crushed by their cars over the years when they didn't have proper equipment or follow safe procedures.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Louisville on November 16, 2015, 09:43:52 AM
I pay $40 at the Quick Lube place, could do it myself for about $25.
For the $15 difference, I don't mind paying them for an oil change every so often.

Wait till they do one of these mistakes:
- overfill the oil
- underfill the oil
- forget to change the filter
- take something off and forget to put it back on
- grab the wrong oil drain plug and force it into your oil pan

DW had a Dodge Minivan once. I kept trying different oil change places looking for someone who didn't screw things up and every time, it was just a different mistake.

How do I know these things? After each oil change, I rolled the minivan up on the ramps I used for my Honda Insight oil changes and checked.

When I started to get suspicious, I started marking the old oil filter: I found my marked oil filter still on the engine after one of these "oil and filter changes".

The wrong oil drain plug was this big yellow thing, looked like it came out of a diesel engine. Fortunately it was also too short and didn't strip the threads completely. I went to Advance Auto, got the correct oil pan plug and replaced it.

Of course, I had to drain all the oil and didn't put it back in, so that oil change cost us double. Since then I've never gone back to an oil change place.

I'm telling you: They hire high school pothead dropouts to do this work who hate your middle class guts because they think they've been "given a bum deal". They laugh when they try to get away with this stuff. I went back a couple times trying to get things made right but management took Pothead Dropout's side because once you find something and fix it, how can you prove THEY did it?
I've had my oil changed numerous times at half a dozen different places over the years. I've done it my self more times than that.
I've never encountered anything like what you describe. I am sitting right in the car while they're working, so I can sort of watch what they're doing, and I do make a point of checking things out before getting very far away from the shop.
Further, a number of my friends (at least when I was younger) worked at places like this and, while many of them did smoke pot, I can't recall any of them laughing about intentionally damaging someone's car. They were pretty closely supervised, and smoking weed and even dropping out of school, while not great ideas, don't make someone an asshole.
So, uhm, anecdote right back at you.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 16, 2015, 09:50:43 AM
I pay $40 at the Quick Lube place, could do it myself for about $25.
For the $15 difference, I don't mind paying them for an oil change every so often.

Wait till they do one of these mistakes:
- overfill the oil
- underfill the oil
- forget to change the filter
- take something off and forget to put it back on
- grab the wrong oil drain plug and force it into your oil pan

DW had a Dodge Minivan once. I kept trying different oil change places looking for someone who didn't screw things up and every time, it was just a different mistake.

How do I know these things? After each oil change, I rolled the minivan up on the ramps I used for my Honda Insight oil changes and checked.

When I started to get suspicious, I started marking the old oil filter: I found my marked oil filter still on the engine after one of these "oil and filter changes".

The wrong oil drain plug was this big yellow thing, looked like it came out of a diesel engine. Fortunately it was also too short and didn't strip the threads completely. I went to Advance Auto, got the correct oil pan plug and replaced it.

Of course, I had to drain all the oil and didn't put it back in, so that oil change cost us double. Since then I've never gone back to an oil change place.

I'm telling you: They hire high school pothead dropouts to do this work who hate your middle class guts because they think they've been "given a bum deal". They laugh when they try to get away with this stuff. I went back a couple times trying to get things made right but management took Pothead Dropout's side because once you find something and fix it, how can you prove THEY did it?
I've had my oil changed numerous times at half a dozen different places over the years. I've done it my self more times than that.
I've never encountered anything like what you describe. I am sitting right in the car while they're working, so I can sort of watch what they're doing, and I do make a point of checking things out before getting very far away from the shop.
Further, a number of my friends (at least when I was younger) worked at places like this and, while many of them did smoke pot, I can't recall any of them laughing about intentionally damaging someone's car. They were pretty closely supervised, and smoking weed and even dropping out of school, while not great ideas, don't make someone an asshole. So, uhm, anecdote right back at you.

You sit in your car while they change the oil? How do they know you won't start the car and put it in gear while they are under it?

Here the quick oil change places take your car at the garage door and you are ushered into a small, smoky waiting room with a TV going and you can't see what they are doing. They return the car to you, with engine still running, out the other side of the building.  No supervision at all, from start to finish, of the person doing the work here.

"asshole" is your word, not mine. I'll back away from the pot smoking part of the story, since you seem to have personal investment in that aspect of it....
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Louisville on November 16, 2015, 10:21:35 AM
I pay $40 at the Quick Lube place, could do it myself for about $25.
For the $15 difference, I don't mind paying them for an oil change every so often.

Wait till they do one of these mistakes:
- overfill the oil
- underfill the oil
- forget to change the filter
- take something off and forget to put it back on
- grab the wrong oil drain plug and force it into your oil pan

DW had a Dodge Minivan once. I kept trying different oil change places looking for someone who didn't screw things up and every time, it was just a different mistake.

How do I know these things? After each oil change, I rolled the minivan up on the ramps I used for my Honda Insight oil changes and checked.

When I started to get suspicious, I started marking the old oil filter: I found my marked oil filter still on the engine after one of these "oil and filter changes".

The wrong oil drain plug was this big yellow thing, looked like it came out of a diesel engine. Fortunately it was also too short and didn't strip the threads completely. I went to Advance Auto, got the correct oil pan plug and replaced it.

Of course, I had to drain all the oil and didn't put it back in, so that oil change cost us double. Since then I've never gone back to an oil change place.

I'm telling you: They hire high school pothead dropouts to do this work who hate your middle class guts because they think they've been "given a bum deal". They laugh when they try to get away with this stuff. I went back a couple times trying to get things made right but management took Pothead Dropout's side because once you find something and fix it, how can you prove THEY did it?
I've had my oil changed numerous times at half a dozen different places over the years. I've done it my self more times than that.
I've never encountered anything like what you describe. I am sitting right in the car while they're working, so I can sort of watch what they're doing, and I do make a point of checking things out before getting very far away from the shop.
Further, a number of my friends (at least when I was younger) worked at places like this and, while many of them did smoke pot, I can't recall any of them laughing about intentionally damaging someone's car. They were pretty closely supervised, and smoking weed and even dropping out of school, while not great ideas, don't make someone an asshole. So, uhm, anecdote right back at you.

You sit in your car while they change the oil? How do they know you won't start the car and put it in gear while they are under it?

Here the quick oil change places take your car at the garage door and you are ushered into a small, smoky waiting room with a TV going and you can't see what they are doing. They return the car to you, with engine still running, out the other side of the building.  No supervision at all, from start to finish, of the person doing the work here.

"asshole" is your word, not mine. I'll back away from the pot smoking part of the story, since you seem to have personal investment in that aspect of it....
I've never been to one where one doesn't sit in one's car as it's being serviced. They tell you when to pull forward, cut the engine, restart, etc.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 16, 2015, 11:18:01 AM
I've never been to one where one doesn't sit in one's car as it's being serviced. They tell you when to pull forward, cut the engine, restart, etc.

Interesting. Sounds like a drive-through car wash. Here we have Jiffy Lube, Snappy Lube and Precision Tune and none of these three companies have you drive through. You exit the car and leave the keys in, get out and go to the waiting room.

I'm starting to wonder how much this might be a factor in the difference of our experiences.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 17, 2015, 06:25:04 AM
I've had my oil changed numerous times at half a dozen different places over the years. I've done it my self more times than that.
I've never encountered anything like what you describe. I am sitting right in the car while they're working, so I can sort of watch what they're doing, and I do make a point of checking things out before getting very far away from the shop.
Further, a number of my friends (at least when I was younger) worked at places like this and, while many of them did smoke pot, I can't recall any of them laughing about intentionally damaging someone's car. They were pretty closely supervised, and smoking weed and even dropping out of school, while not great ideas, don't make someone an asshole.
So, uhm, anecdote right back at you.

Karma can be a bitch, and payback for the "that kind of stuff never happens to me" attitude, can be ugly.  I know it's anecdotes, but F'ups are amazingly prevalent. After an oil change, my mom left the shop of a guy who was, at the time, was a trusted friend. Within blocks the oil plug fell out, and by the time she saw the idiot light and pulled over, the motor seized. Naturally, the culprit failed to man up, but the small claims judge did it for him. A neighbor pulled into a local place for an oil change, and was called into the office to be told very sternly, that her front struts were so shot that the car shouldn't even leave the garage. She called her husband, who informed her that he replaced them less than two months ago. I made the mistake of taking our CRV to a dealer while on the road, for an oil change. They had no interest in doing the work, they only wanted to get the car up on the lift to look for things to upsell. They tore the glove box apart to get to the cabin air filter. They then reported that it was "shot", which was total bullshit. I told them to put it back and do the work I asked them to do. They put the old filter back in, upside down, and failed to reassemble the interior of the glove box. After the oil change I had to use a cake pan, and while laying in the driveway of a resort, drain a extra quart of oil out. Why should a Honda dealer have any idea how much oil a new Honda takes, Right? My son gets serious with his fiancé , and tells her that it's time to stop taking her Corolla to the local quick lube clowns. The car has a canister style filter. He opens the top and discovers an odd lump in the bottom of the canister. The quick change place never changed the filter, and it had literally disintegrated. It hadn't had a new filter in years, even though she paid for almost a dozen.

Sure, the vast majority of service work gets done well enough to keep the vehicle running, but if you have the skill set and tools, IMHO, there is no reason to risk a valuable asset to a bunch of clowns who may, or may not, do the job correctly. If you need to sit in the car, watch what they are doing, and then double check their work before you get too far away from the place, you need to step back and ask yourself "why an I doing this, when it would be faster, easier, cheaper and done correctly the first time,  if I did it myself"
I have done hundreds of oil changes, repairs and maintenance tasks on vehicles in my garage, and never had problems that were caused by not giving a shit enough to do it right the first time. In that time I have saved hundreds of hours by not driving back and forth to shops, and waiting for work to be done, and thousands, or more likely tens of thousands of dollars, by not paying a shop for labor, profit and overhead.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 17, 2015, 06:56:40 AM
Walmart is eliminating Tire and Lube services at new stores.  They just opened a new Walmart store locally to replace one without full grocery and it has no Tire and Lube like the old one did.  A manager said Walmart can't keep auto techs so they are getting out of the auto service business at new stores.  There are five fairly new Walmart stores in my area and none have auto services.

It is good to hear that at least some tire and lube places video everything that is done.  I'm still not sure what to do about an oil change for my car.  If I do it this weekend I have to drive into town to either get it done or to buy oil and a filter.

From the very few times I have done business with Walmart's tire and service department, it seem to me that they are simply incapable of running things competently enough to be competitive, and pay truly qualified help. I have watched them put a tech. on rotating my truck tires, and then spend an hour and a half of labor doing a fifteen minute job. It was almost painful to watch since, after lowering the truck and backing it out, the tech. had to take it on a short test drive and then return to a bay where a manager had to check all 32 lugs with a torque wrench.  All this an a bill of $24. Around here, if you didn't bill at least $100 in shop time for 1-1/2 + hours of service, you lost money. The final straw for me was showing up and requesting a rotation, and balance, on two tires, while on a road trip to Utah. The place was empty and there was a tech. and a manager on hand. They had one oil change underway, and an issue with a recently installed, possibly defective, battery to address. They were looking at a half hour of work, for one guy, for the foreseeable future. The tech. was in near panic mode and told me that the battery might turn into a big issue, depending on what the manager had to say (WTF?) and asked if I could come back in two hours? Um, no.  I pulled down the street to a Les Schwab and was done in half an hour. Schwab was a few hundred feet away, provided all the same services, and had ten techs. going full blast, with three service writers trying to keep the front of the house under control.

I doubt that things are much different in many of Walmart's shops. I have a buddy who works for a large independent garage. Walmart moved down the street and opened with an auto center. The small shop had a decent tire business but was very concerned about being driven out of the tire business by Walmart. After the owner did some research, he borrowed $400K and decided to get serious about tires. The shop was expanded with a new tire store, equipment and employees. It's been a decade now. The tire shop is doing great, and the Auto center at WM is dribbling along.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: lthenderson on November 17, 2015, 09:26:44 AM
I've had my oil changed numerous times at half a dozen different places over the years. I've done it my self more times than that. I've never encountered anything like what you describe.

With roughly two decades of paying someone to change my oil, I've never had any of the experiences described above as well. However, I'm a firm believer in getting what you pay for and I steer clear of the discount oil change places who can offer the discounts by not paying employees much. I much prefer to go to a one-off private service place where I know the name of the guy who changes my oil, the name of his wife and kids, where he likes to eat, hobbies when not changing oil, etc. You pay a little more but you get better service.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Flyingkea on November 18, 2015, 06:09:24 AM
This weekend, I just had my partner teach me how to change the oil, replace the filter, check the brakes and check fluid levels and the air filter.
Since my car had plenty of brake padding left, we just had to buy oil and a filter. All up cost? About $50*. If I had taken in for a service?  Min $80 possibly more like 100-150 with upselling. We did both cars that afternoon, and I consider it,well worth it.

That said, being summer in Australia, I need to take my car in to have the aircon checked - it stopped working so it will need leak checking and regassing.

*Aussie prices.

On another note, New Zealand has a interesting vehicle checking system - all cars must pass a roadworthy test every 6 months, and there are stations all over the country that can do it. However they don't do the repairs themselves, so not too likely to upsell. And no incentive for failing as if you make the repairs and return within 28 days you don't pay twice.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on November 18, 2015, 10:19:40 AM
Why not always use the OEM filters? It's easy for me to order those for my somewhat-rare vehicle online from Honda. I always keep 'em in stock in my home garage.

I'm a huge fan of OEM unless you have a REALLY good reason not to.  My Eclipse I use a Mobil1 filter due to how tight the space is between the filter and the downpipe.  Can't get a cap wrench on the OEM filter and it's a higher torque install, so you really need the cap wrench...

I got a free Mobil1 filter for my MR2 and immediately went back to OEM.  Either Mobil1 doesn't have an anti-drainback valve or it doesn't work well as the car would rattle horribly on startup with the Mobil1 filter (not a problem with the Eclipse because that filter is on it's side at the bottom of the engine instead of vertical at the top of the engine).

My Suzuki had an aftermarket on it when it arrived.  Major issues with removing the old one.  REALLY high torque application (contact plus 2.5 turns!).  OEM works MUCH better for install/removal.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 18, 2015, 01:37:55 PM
I didn't realize my car takes 6 quarts of oil rather than 5 quarts of oil.  Even if I bought the least expensive oil and filter locally the cost is still just as much as having a shop do it.  I just had a shop do it this time.  I may do it myself the next time if I can find deals on buying oil and filter in advance.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: greaper007 on November 18, 2015, 07:49:07 PM
I think it's generally a good idea to learn how to do some basic things on your car just because it gives you an idea of how things work in your own car.   That allows you to diagnose problems quickly and prevents someone from screwing you out of money on a repair.

However, I had a 90 Maxima when I knew very little about car repairs.    I only used crappy quick lube places and had lots of shoddy repairs from places like Firestone.   I ended up selling it at 20 years old with about 200,000 miles, I'd imagine that it's still running today.

I do all my own mx now, but I also end up screwing myself fairly regularly.   It's not just the "pothead dropouts that want to occupy your 70s ranch style home" that can screw things up.    I've done things to my car at 3 o'clock in the morning (you know how those 90 min jobs go) that I'm too ashamed to even admit here.

Also, lets lay off of the pothead dropout talk.    One of my pot dealers in High School was a dropout that worked at the jiffy lube.   He was a nice guy that provided a product many people desired at an affordable rate, he also gave a decent oil change.   He even let me smoke in his basement while we played play station and listened to crappy music.    I can't imagine you didn't also have someone like this in your life at one point.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 18, 2015, 09:11:54 PM
I can change oil.  It isn't hard.  I paid to have it done for $25 because I could barely buy the six quarts of oil and filter for $25.  It would have easily taken me the same 30 minutes I spent at the dealer.  Next time I might do it myself if I watch for sales on oil and can order the filter online for less.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 18, 2015, 10:27:30 PM
Also, lets lay off of the pothead dropout talk.    One of my pot dealers in High School was a dropout that worked at the jiffy lube.   He was a nice guy that provided a product many people desired at an affordable rate, he also gave a decent oil change.   He even let me smoke in his basement while we played play station and listened to crappy music.    I can't imagine you didn't also have someone like this in your life at one point.

Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 19, 2015, 05:09:05 AM
I can change oil.  It isn't hard.  I paid to have it done for $25 because I could barely buy the six quarts of oil and filter for $25.  It would have easily taken me the same 30 minutes I spent at the dealer.  Next time I might do it myself if I watch for sales on oil and can order the filter online for less.

You are right, it's tough to do the job for much under $25. That said, I do my own on our motorhome. It takes six qts. of semi-synthetic. I use the Ford brand oil and filter, which run about $28 at Wal-Mart. My issue is not about the price, it's the ten grease fittings in the front end. I  regrease them on a regular basis, and I know that even the nearly hidden one is done properly, which involves making sure the wheel is cocked hard to one side, to access it. Since there is no way in hell the average $25 oil change involves properly greasing much of anything, it only takes a few years until the suspension and steering parts, which should last indefinitely, start to fail. I really don't want to drop a few thousand in needless repairs because I supported my local pothead at the $25 oil change place.

DISCLAIMER: The "pothead" comment is only in keeping with the drifting narrative of this thread, and it's  recently evolved, "honor your local pothead" theme. I have no personal knowledge of the amount of drug usage the employees of my local quick change oil shop may, or may not, be engaging in. LOL
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: jba302 on November 19, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
We have 2 vehicles, a civic and an outback. The civic is a fking nuisance to change. I put it on ramps because it's impossible to get the oil changed otherwise unless you are Dhalsim. Then you have to take off the big plastic underbody thing, which means you have to take off a bunch of little plastic pop-rivets. A quarter of them snap every time you do this (I have a big bag of these god damn things to replace the inevitable broken ones). Then there are 6 bolts that come off stupidly easy, but snap when you over tighten by a half ounce. I have 3 snapped off right now and have yet to drill them out.

The subaru has the oil filter positioned on top of the engine, so with a vacuum pump I can change the oil and filter from above. I pay to have the civic changed and do the subaru myself.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 19, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
(I have a big bag of these god damn things to replace the inevitable broken ones).

jba, where do you buy your big bag of those god damn things!?! I buy them in the three-pack from Advance Auto and they are starting to cost me real money. I replace one every time I do the oil in my Honda.

Quote
The subaru has the oil filter positioned on top of the engine, so with a vacuum pump I can change the oil and filter from above. I pay to have the civic changed and do the subaru myself.

Ahhh....another superb benefit of that beautiful horizontally-opposed boxer engine! Toyota does the same thing on their big Tundra trucks - I locked up and stared at it for five full minutes when I first saw it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: ncornilsen on November 19, 2015, 02:48:05 PM
I value my time fairly highly. Therefor, I change my oil myself.  3 minutes to order the stuff on Amazon, 15 minutes to change the oil, more time for tire rotations, etc... usually less than an hour. This, versus a 15 minute drive to an oil change shop, an hour there, and a 15 minute drive home, plus more money.

Quote
Ahhh....another superb benefit of that beautiful horizontally-opposed boxer engine! Toyota does the same thing on their big Tundra trucks - I locked up and stared at it for five full minutes when I first saw it.

If only those horizontally opposed engines didn't sound like they had a blown exhaust valve, I'd agree about the beautiful part... In my opinion, they sound like absolute garbage. I cringe when I hear someone railing on one.

Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 19, 2015, 03:50:09 PM
If you have a good place to do it, then DIY.  Install a Fumoto-type valve and there's almost no mess or even jacking (depends on your oil filter setup).

That said, if I lived in an apartment complex or something I would probably just pay a garage.  I agree w/ everyone else that the #1 advantage is knowing it was done correctly.  You can also get really good deals on oil if you watch slickdeals, etc.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 19, 2015, 09:15:43 PM
I value my time fairly highly. Therefor, I change my oil myself.  3 minutes to order the stuff on Amazon, 15 minutes to change the oil, more time for tire rotations, etc... usually less than an hour. This, versus a 15 minute drive to an oil change shop, an hour there, and a 15 minute drive home, plus more money.

I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on November 20, 2015, 03:08:13 AM
I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.

I'm not sure why you need two jacks in order to rotate tires?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: lthenderson on November 20, 2015, 07:34:44 AM
I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.

I'm not sure why you need two jacks in order to rotate tires?

Sure you don't NEED two jacks in order to rotate tires but it certainly isn't desirable doing it with one jack and having to put a spare on and off. I bought a floor jack at an auction for $5 and it was the best investment I have made when it comes to rotating tires, perhaps second only to my impact wrench.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on November 20, 2015, 07:55:38 AM
I've always changed my own oil. Shops use recycled conventional oil and I am very particular about which oil and filters I use (mobil 1 synthetic for my new car and typically mobil 1 high miles for my old ones that are all near or over 200k).
I have had shops cross-thread, over-torque, and strip my drain plug, over-torque my filter making it nearly impossible to remove, straight up not change my oil and filter at all ... the list goes on. I don't trust anybody to do work on my car that I can do myself. My wife is a mechanic and I've been working on my own cars since I was a teenager, so I don't really see it as that big of a deal. Even when I didn't have a garage, I would do my own oil changes outside when they were needed. Usually I made sure to time it so that I wouldn't need one in the REALLY cold months though. I've only taken my car to a shop to get the oil changed once since I learned how to do it, and that's because I was working crazy hours and there was a foot of snow in the parking lot at my apartment.

TL;DR - Do it yourself. It's more rewarding and the quality is guaranteed.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: jba302 on November 20, 2015, 09:32:53 AM

jba, where do you buy your big bag of those god damn things!?! I buy them in the three-pack from Advance Auto and they are starting to cost me real money. I replace one every time I do the oil in my Honda.

Ahhh....another superb benefit of that beautiful horizontally-opposed boxer engine! Toyota does the same thing on their big Tundra trucks - I locked up and stared at it for five full minutes when I first saw it.

Amazon has them - http://www.amazon.com/Honda-10mm-Hole-Plastic-Rivet/dp/B000NC0SA2 I think that's the right size...it might be these http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Splash_Shield_Push_Type_Retainer_20mm_Hd_Dia_p/a17379.htm

I don't have my maintenance notebook on hand so I don't remember but there are plenty of online options. And yea I was floored when I first opened the hood, I almost shed a tear of joy seeing the layout of everything. It's also the first vehicle I've owned that the windshield washer reservoir holds a full gallon jug's worth.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 20, 2015, 01:39:49 PM
I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.

I'm not sure why you need two jacks in order to rotate tires?

Jack stands.  Get them if you plan to do any work on your car
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 20, 2015, 02:53:14 PM
I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.

I'm not sure why you need two jacks in order to rotate tires?

That or a jack stand or something.  You can't really take two wheels off at the same time without supporting both wheel positions.  Someone mentioned putting the spare tire on when you remove the first wheel, but man that would be a lot of jacking with just a scissor jack.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Spork on November 20, 2015, 04:24:04 PM
I was in and out of the dealer yesterday in 30 minutes flat to get my oil changed and tires rotated.  It is on my way home so I'm not adding to my drive time.  I don't have two jacks so it would really hard to rotate my tires myself.  I really need to check CL for a floor jack.

I'm not sure why you need two jacks in order to rotate tires?

That or a jack stand or something.  You can't really take two wheels off at the same time without supporting both wheel positions.  Someone mentioned putting the spare tire on when you remove the first wheel, but man that would be a lot of jacking with just a scissor jack.

Or if you have a car with an actual frame rail, just jack it once in the middle!    (Yes, I know almost no one has a real frame rail any more.  But I still have one.)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Kaplin261 on November 22, 2015, 01:12:24 PM
I had my oil changed at Wal-Mart today while I did some grocery shopping. It costed me after tax $20.11 and on my drive home I passed a Advance Auto parts store advertising 5 qts of oil and filter for $22. They also put air in my tires eliminating the TPMS light that was on in my car.

I have been using walmart exclusively for over 10 years now for my oil changes and my wife's car. That's about 50 oil changes and we have never had any issues. 50 oil changes = 50 hours and that turns out to be $1000 if my time is valued at $20 a hour.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 22, 2015, 02:03:30 PM
I had my oil changed at Wal-Mart today while I did some grocery shopping. It costed me after tax $20.11 and on my drive home I passed a Advance Auto parts store advertising 5 qts of oil and filter for $22. They also put air in my tires eliminating the TPMS light that was on in my car.

I have been using walmart exclusively for over 10 years now for my oil changes and my wife's car. That's about 50 oil changes and we have never had any issues. 50 oil changes = 50 hours and that turns out to be $1000 if my time is valued at $20 a hour.

How does using walmart save you an hour of time, exactly?  I've heard enough horror stories to prefer doing my own to avoid using walmart, but great if it works for you.  I just got 5 quarts of full synthetic online for like $12 as a slickdeal, and my fumoto valve makes the change take 5-10 min, so I'm definitely coming out ahead in both time and money (but the time/money savings aren't super significant in the grand scheme of things)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 22, 2015, 02:54:39 PM
How does using walmart save you an hour of time, exactly?  I've heard enough horror stories to prefer doing my own to avoid using walmart, but great if it works for you.  I just got 5 quarts of full synthetic online for like $12 as a slickdeal, and my fumoto valve makes the change take 5-10 min, so I'm definitely coming out ahead in both time and money (but the time/money savings aren't super significant in the grand scheme of things)

Any chance that slickdeal on oil is still available?  If one has to pay retail prices for oil it can be cheaper just to take it to a place to have the oil changed.  I figured I was at close to $30 with tax to buy the cheapest name brand oil at Walmart and a WIX oil filter at Oreilly.  I have since found that Sam's Club sells a 12 pack of oil for just over $2 a quart.  My engine takes 6 quarts so that would be perfect for two changes.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Kaplin261 on November 22, 2015, 02:58:22 PM
I had my oil changed at Wal-Mart today while I did some grocery shopping. It costed me after tax $20.11 and on my drive home I passed a Advance Auto parts store advertising 5 qts of oil and filter for $22. They also put air in my tires eliminating the TPMS light that was on in my car.

I have been using walmart exclusively for over 10 years now for my oil changes and my wife's car. That's about 50 oil changes and we have never had any issues. 50 oil changes = 50 hours and that turns out to be $1000 if my time is valued at $20 a hour.

How does using walmart save you an hour of time, exactly?  I've heard enough horror stories to prefer doing my own to avoid using walmart, but great if it works for you.  I just got 5 quarts of full synthetic online for like $12 as a slickdeal, and my fumoto valve makes the change take 5-10 min, so I'm definitely coming out ahead in both time and money (but the time/money savings aren't super significant in the grand scheme of things)

The hour saved is my hour not having to change the oil myself and using the hour to do some other productive chore. I do think 1 hour is a reasonable time frame for a oil change at home not counting time to clean up if you get soaked in oil and your drive time to dispose of oil. I would also have to dedicate storage space for ramps and a oil drain pan. The fumoto valve seems like a great time saver but what about the oil filter, the oil filter is always the part that gets me dirty.

If time and money are not the significant part here then I assume you are referring to the risks to your vehicle of out sourcing oil changes. What about the risks of injury by doing it yourself, being under a car is a unsafe environment. A simple mistake can cause a mechanic to lose his life. You are working with dangerous tools that can cut, smash and maul fingers and toes. Auto mechanics can get burned by battery acid as well as from hot oil, coolant, hydraulic fluid and other liquids.

And doing it yourself does not make you immune from making a critical mistake yourself. Chances are if a mechanic at a big chain garage does make a mistake, the garage will pay to have it fixed.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on November 22, 2015, 03:19:20 PM
Oil filters are no big deal. First, change your oil when the engine is warm, not when the oil is scalding hot. Next, slip a disposable glove on, and spin the filter until it's draining all over the exterior. Let it run until it's down to a drip, and continue to unscrew it. Once it's in your gloved hand, flip it upside down and hold it above the drain pan until it's empty, then drop it in a zip lock bag. For final cleanup of the pan, funnel and whatever else got oily, I use a few paper towels and a spray can of brake clean. The towels go in the bag with the filter, and the bag hits the trash.

As for the dangers involved, every time we end up with a newer vehicle, I make a real serious attempt to figure out a way to change the oil without using ramps, or jack stands. As other's have pointed out, generally it's possible, but there are some vehicles that it isn't going to happen unless you a gymnast and 3" thick. As for avoiding DIY vehicle repair and maintenance due to the alleged danger involved, sorry I'm not buying it. Safety is not an abstract concept, and with the proper knowledge and equipment there is nothing to fear.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 22, 2015, 03:25:40 PM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 22, 2015, 05:27:19 PM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Spork on November 22, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

And some have the 1950s tractor technology cartridge filter from underneath, where you are guaranteed to spill oil.   (Toyota: I'm talking to you.)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 22, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

I know newer suburu foresters do. 


I had my oil changed at Wal-Mart today while I did some grocery shopping. It costed me after tax $20.11 and on my drive home I passed a Advance Auto parts store advertising 5 qts of oil and filter for $22. They also put air in my tires eliminating the TPMS light that was on in my car.

I have been using walmart exclusively for over 10 years now for my oil changes and my wife's car. That's about 50 oil changes and we have never had any issues. 50 oil changes = 50 hours and that turns out to be $1000 if my time is valued at $20 a hour.

How does using walmart save you an hour of time, exactly?  I've heard enough horror stories to prefer doing my own to avoid using walmart, but great if it works for you.  I just got 5 quarts of full synthetic online for like $12 as a slickdeal, and my fumoto valve makes the change take 5-10 min, so I'm definitely coming out ahead in both time and money (but the time/money savings aren't super significant in the grand scheme of things)

The hour saved is my hour not having to change the oil myself and using the hour to do some other productive chore. I do think 1 hour is a reasonable time frame for a oil change at home not counting time to clean up if you get soaked in oil and your drive time to dispose of oil. I would also have to dedicate storage space for ramps and a oil drain pan. The fumoto valve seems like a great time saver but what about the oil filter, the oil filter is always the part that gets me dirty.

If time and money are not the significant part here then I assume you are referring to the risks to your vehicle of out sourcing oil changes. What about the risks of injury by doing it yourself, being under a car is a unsafe environment. A simple mistake can cause a mechanic to lose his life. You are working with dangerous tools that can cut, smash and maul fingers and toes. Auto mechanics can get burned by battery acid as well as from hot oil, coolant, hydraulic fluid and other liquids.

And doing it yourself does not make you immune from making a critical mistake yourself. Chances are if a mechanic at a big chain garage does make a mistake, the garage will pay to have it fixed.


For filters, there's also the "paper cup trick" where you put a paper cup over the filter and unscrew... all the mess goes into the cup. Then you pop in the new one and you are done.  Luckily for me, my wife has a suburu and my car's filter is easily accessed if I turn the front wheels. 

There are no tools involved at all, let alone "dangerous tools".  That said, before I installed the fumoto valve, I still changed my oil in under 30 min.  I don't have ramps, just jack stands.

I think you are seriously overestimating the "hour" it would take you to do this.  Waste disposal is easily accomplished with almost no extra time lost -- just wait until I'm already headed in the direction of literally any auto parts store. 

Don't forget to subtract the time it takes you to let Walmart do it.  Are they instantaneous?  I'd assume not, and that in fact the time it takes to fill out paper work and pay, even assuming you shop while they work on the car, is more time than it takes me to do the whole job start to finish.  If it takes them 15 min, why don't you think you can do the same job in the same amount of time?  The biggest advantage they have is a lift, but as discussed above most cars don't even need to be lifted to do this job.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on November 23, 2015, 06:18:30 AM
Oil filters are no big deal. First, change your oil when the engine is warm, not when the oil is scalding hot. Next, slip a disposable glove on, and spin the filter until it's draining all over the exterior. Let it run until it's down to a drip, and continue to unscrew it. Once it's in your gloved hand, flip it upside down and hold it above the drain pan until it's empty, then drop it in a zip lock bag. For final cleanup of the pan, funnel and whatever else got oily, I use a few paper towels and a spray can of brake clean. The towels go in the bag with the filter, and the bag hits the trash.

As for the dangers involved, every time we end up with a newer vehicle, I make a real serious attempt to figure out a way to change the oil without using ramps, or jack stands. As other's have pointed out, generally it's possible, but there are some vehicles that it isn't going to happen unless you a gymnast and 3" thick. As for avoiding DIY vehicle repair and maintenance due to the alleged danger involved, sorry I'm not buying it. Safety is not an abstract concept, and with the proper knowledge and equipment there is nothing to fear.
I learned about auto repair safety the "fun" way by neglecting to use stands and having a jack fail while I was under the car. Pretty much the worst case scenario for doing your own car work but I still refuse to let somebody else wrench on my car, even for an oil change.
Safety is only a problem if you aren't doing it right. If you lift the car, use jack stands, the parking brake, and jam something under the tires that are still on the ground as a redundant measure to keep them from rolling. Otherwise, the biggest safety risk to changing your oil is a busted knuckle now and then.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 23, 2015, 07:18:29 AM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

Any vehicle that has a Chrysler 3.6 liter V6 should have a top side cartridge oil filter.  I was surprised to find out about this.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 23, 2015, 07:45:39 AM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

Any vehicle that has a Chrysler 3.6 liter V6 should have a top side cartridge oil filter.  I was surprised to find out about this.

I have to disagree. I've owned a vehicle with the Chrysler 3.6L V6 and it had a non-cartridge (spin-on metal) filter you reach from the bottom. 

Google searches for "top side filter" yielded only the Subaru, which we've already discussed in this thread. My Toyota claim, I verified in person by looking at the engine in a new Tundra.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Clean Shaven on November 23, 2015, 07:53:40 AM
The V6 4.0 motor Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner oil filter is right on top, in the front, with a sort of funnel built in to the filter mount for catching the oil the old filter upon removal. Those are the easiest filter change design I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Jack on November 23, 2015, 08:13:59 AM
As for avoiding DIY vehicle repair and maintenance due to the alleged danger involved, sorry I'm not buying it. Safety is not an abstract concept, and with the proper knowledge and equipment there is nothing to fear.
I learned about auto repair safety the "fun" way by neglecting to use stands and having a jack fail while I was under the car. Pretty much the worst case scenario for doing your own car work but I still refuse to let somebody else wrench on my car, even for an oil change.
Safety is only a problem if you aren't doing it right. If you lift the car, use jack stands, the parking brake, and jam something under the tires that are still on the ground as a redundant measure to keep them from rolling. Otherwise, the biggest safety risk to changing your oil is a busted knuckle now and then.

Another safety tip: if you take the wheels off (which shouldn't normally apply when doing an oil change...), put the wheels under the frame rail. That way, if the car falls off the jack or whatever it'll ruin the finish on your alloy wheel instead of ruining your skull.

Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

1.9L VW TDIs (Jetta, Golf, Beetle) have top side cartridge filters. (At least the '98-'03s do; not sure about the '04-'06.)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 23, 2015, 08:16:33 AM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

1.9L VW TDIs (Jetta, Golf, Beetle) have top side cartridge filters. (At least the '98-'03s do; not sure about the '04-'06.)

JACK, GET OUTTA here. VW?

Are you sure it doesn't just jump to the top when they do the emissions inspection but is on the bottom any other time! :-) :-) :-)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on November 23, 2015, 09:38:24 AM


Another safety tip: if you take the wheels off (which shouldn't normally apply when doing an oil change...), put the wheels under the frame rail. That way, if the car falls off the jack or whatever it'll ruin the finish on your alloy wheel instead of ruining your skull.


Wish I would have known that 6 years ago lol
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Jack on November 23, 2015, 10:02:52 AM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

1.9L VW TDIs (Jetta, Golf, Beetle) have top side cartridge filters. (At least the '98-'03s do; not sure about the '04-'06.)

JACK, GET OUTTA here. VW?

Are you sure it doesn't just jump to the top when they do the emissions inspection but is on the bottom any other time! :-) :-) :-)

LOL

But seriously, the "emissions scandal" TDIs are the 2009+ 2.0L "Clean Diesel" ones. The years I mentioned above aren't even supposed to be "clean." And in my area, at least, Diesels are exempt from emissions testing anyway. I'd strongly consider getting one of the 2009+ ones and having a tuner modify it for even more NOx output (along with more power and better fuel economy, which I consider a good trade-off), but I'm not ready to get rid of my '98 yet.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 23, 2015, 11:59:55 AM
I have to disagree. I've owned a vehicle with the Chrysler 3.6L V6 and it had a non-cartridge (spin-on metal) filter you reach from the bottom. 

Let me be more specific then.  Many (maybe all) of the 2011+ Pentastar 3.6L V6 engines have top side cartridge filters.  Models for sure that have them include the Town & Country, 200, VW Routan, Grand Caravan, Wrangler, and Grand Cherokee.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 23, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
I have to disagree. I've owned a vehicle with the Chrysler 3.6L V6 and it had a non-cartridge (spin-on metal) filter you reach from the bottom. 

Let me be more specific then.  Many (maybe all) of the 2011+ Pentastar 3.6L V6 engines have top side cartridge filters.  Models for sure that have them include the Town & Country, 200, VW Routan, Grand Caravan, Wrangler, and Grand Cherokee.

Time for a Mopar Madness! Gotta check into this. Maybe Daimler really did change things over there.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: M2 pilot on November 23, 2015, 08:08:49 PM
I change my own.  I enjoy doing it.  Simple job, takes a little time, saves a little money & gives me a chance to catch potential under the car problems early.  I also know it's done correctly when I do it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 27, 2015, 10:51:59 AM
It would not have saved me any money to do an oil change myself this time.  Oil at Walmart for six quarts of the least expensive brand name would have been $18 and the filter another $7 for a WIX filter.  I paid $24.95 for an oil change so the labor was basically free.  I have since found that Sam's Club sells 12 quarts of 5W-30 for about $2 a quart.  I plan to do it myself the next time.

I am going to see if my father will let me have his set of ramps since he is 70 and hasn't changed his own oil in years.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on November 27, 2015, 11:06:36 AM
One also needs to realize that 12 qt of oil for $2 cannot be of good quality. No matter what they put on label. Your milk at Sams is more expensive than that. Engine "health" directly depends on oil quality, don't forget this fact
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 27, 2015, 01:03:33 PM
One also needs to realize that 12 qt of oil for $2 cannot be of good quality. No matter what they put on label. Your milk at Sams is more expensive than that. Engine "health" directly depends on oil quality, don't forget this fact

He said $2 per quart.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on November 27, 2015, 01:06:39 PM
Indeed. My mistake.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 27, 2015, 01:29:08 PM
It would not have saved me any money to do an oil change myself this time.  Oil at Walmart for six quarts of the least expensive brand name would have been $18 and the filter another $7 for a WIX filter.  I paid $24.95 for an oil change so the labor was basically free.  I have since found that Sam's Club sells 12 quarts of 5W-30 for about $2 a quart.  I plan to do it myself the next time.

I am going to see if my father will let me have his set of ramps since he is 70 and hasn't changed his own oil in years.

Most oil change places will limit you to 5 quarts and a crappy $3 filter, so yeah I guess if they are giving you an extra quart plus an upgraded filter that's a good price.  You still have no idea if they correctly torqued that drain bolt though.

One also needs to realize that 12 qt of oil for $2 cannot be of good quality. No matter what they put on label. Your milk at Sams is more expensive than that. Engine "health" directly depends on oil quality, don't forget this fact

Are milk and oil comparable goods?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on November 27, 2015, 01:40:06 PM
very much comparable. Producing a quart of milk should be cheaper than producing a quart of good quality oil. If it's not, I would question oil quality.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 27, 2015, 02:08:39 PM
Indeed. My mistake.

Manly comment. Good on ya mate.

very much comparable. Producing a quart of milk should be cheaper than producing a quart of good quality oil. If it's not, I would question oil quality.

Agreed! I once bought WalMart's store brand oil and HATED it. The gunk it left in the engine shocked me. Quickly went back to Castrol GTX and Mobil 1 for synthetic.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on November 27, 2015, 02:19:16 PM
To reiterate on oil price, so I don't sound like a complete prick :)
Shops can afford lower prices on oil change because they buy oil in bulk, hundreds of gallons. When oil is sold for $2/qt in retail, it is not the oil you want to buy.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on November 27, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
To reiterate on oil price, so I don't sound like a complete prick :)
Shops can afford lower prices on oil change because they buy oil in bulk, hundreds of gallons. When oil is sold for $2/qt in retail, it is not the oil you want to buy.

I'm guessing they were talking about the 12-pack of non-synthetic Pennzoil at Sam's Club. I don't buy it myself, but some people I've heard from swear by it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 28, 2015, 10:38:56 AM
Most oil change places will limit you to 5 quarts and a crappy $3 filter, so yeah I guess if they are giving you an extra quart plus an upgraded filter that's a good price.  You still have no idea if they correctly torqued that drain bolt though.

I had my oil change done at the dealer.  It appears from the invoice that they didn't charge me extra for the 6th quart of oil.  They use Mopar filters and Pennzoil oil.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Jack on November 28, 2015, 08:05:59 PM
Most oil change places will limit you to 5 quarts and a crappy $3 filter, so yeah I guess if they are giving you an extra quart plus an upgraded filter that's a good price.  You still have no idea if they correctly torqued that drain bolt though.

I had my oil change done at the dealer.  It appears from the invoice that they didn't charge me extra for the 6th quart of oil.  They use Mopar filters and Pennzoil oil.

Or more likely, your engine is a quart low and you don't know it. Or your engine still has a quart of old oil in it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 28, 2015, 08:55:36 PM
very much comparable. Producing a quart of milk should be cheaper than producing a quart of good quality oil. If it's not, I would question oil quality.

Why? 

To reiterate on oil price, so I don't sound like a complete prick :)
Shops can afford lower prices on oil change because they buy oil in bulk, hundreds of gallons. When oil is sold for $2/qt in retail, it is not the oil you want to buy.

Go nuts: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ORO0/53055/N0423.oap
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 28, 2015, 09:42:12 PM
Go nuts: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ORO0/53055/N0423.oap

I'm not sure what your point here is.  This oil is $3.77 per quart in a 55 gallon drum.  I can buy brand name oil by the quart for less.  Generic oil like this sells for under $3 a quart.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on November 28, 2015, 09:53:28 PM
Or more likely, your engine is a quart low and you don't know it. Or your engine still has a quart of old oil in it.

The dealer had a coupon listed on their website for an oil change for $24.95.  The invoice lists 6 quarts of oil at $2.76 per quart.  The total for the oil change including environmental fee was $25.29 before sales tax.  Somehow I still paid the $24.95 price while getting six quarts of oil instead of just five.

The dealer's invoice is screwy because they list parts and labor separately at normal price and then list two discounts at the bottom to get to the $24.95 price.  My guess is they increased the discount so I was still paying the $24.95 price even with six quarts.  I have some confidence the dealer isn't going to screw up an oil change and lose future opportunities to service my vehicle for a lot more money or to sell me another vehicle.  (Yes, I realize some dealers are crooked and would screw up an oil change on purpose.)  I would never use the dealer for normal repairs unless it was something only a dealer could fix.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on November 29, 2015, 01:20:06 AM
Go nuts: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ORO0/53055/N0423.oap

I'm not sure what your point here is.  This oil is $3.77 per quart in a 55 gallon drum.  I can buy brand name oil by the quart for less.  Generic oil like this sells for under $3 a quart.

My point is the bulk isn't necessarily cheaper
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on December 03, 2015, 11:09:16 PM
How does using walmart save you an hour of time, exactly?  I've heard enough horror stories to prefer doing my own to avoid using walmart, but great if it works for you.  I just got 5 quarts of full synthetic online for like $12 as a slickdeal, and my fumoto valve makes the change take 5-10 min, so I'm definitely coming out ahead in both time and money (but the time/money savings aren't super significant in the grand scheme of things)

Any chance that slickdeal on oil is still available?  If one has to pay retail prices for oil it can be cheaper just to take it to a place to have the oil changed.  I figured I was at close to $30 with tax to buy the cheapest name brand oil at Walmart and a WIX oil filter at Oreilly.  I have since found that Sam's Club sells a 12 pack of oil for just over $2 a quart.  My engine takes 6 quarts so that would be perfect for two changes.

There's a new one: http://slickdeals.net/f/8344903-5-qt-quaker-state-full-synthetic-motor-oil-9-99-after-rebate-free-store-pickup-advance-auto-parts
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on December 05, 2015, 05:37:03 AM
On a bit of a tangent, I thought $10-12 for a Mobil 1 oil filter was pretty expensive.  However, I just spent $164 on an oil filter last night.  On the plus side though, it's reusable.  Has a metal filter element that you remove and clean instead of throwing away.  The only real wear item is the gasket (which is designed to be user replaceable).  No anti-drainback valve though, so not suitable for all vehicles.

It's a really long story as to how I ended up with it, but the short version involves *suspected* light rod knock on a vehicle that has a very difficult to get at oil pan.  With gory details omitted, a visual inspection is a large part of the way to a rebuild.  Plan "B" is drive it until something becomes more obviously wrong, but it *may* go straight from "too light to diagnose" to "catastrophic failure".  The anecdotal evidence so far is that people with this pricy filter that blow up engines are able to re-use the head and turbo, whereas those with paper filters end up replacing everything...  We shall see...
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on December 05, 2015, 11:41:17 AM
Unfortunately, the Quaker State deal from Advance doesn't work for me since they only include filters up to $6.99 retail.  The price for my filter is $12.99 retail.  (I can get the same filter much cheaper elsewhere.)

It look like I can get just the oil for 99 cents a quart after two rebates from Menards.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on December 05, 2015, 01:37:21 PM
Unfortunately, the Quaker State deal from Advance doesn't work for me since they only include filters up to $6.99 retail.  The price for my filter is $12.99 retail.  (I can get the same filter much cheaper elsewhere.)

It look like I can get just the oil for 99 cents a quart after two rebates from Menards.

Even if you give the  filter to someone else, $2/quart for FULL SYNTHETIC is smokin.  Is the Lenard's deal synthetic?  Cause if so WOW
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on December 05, 2015, 01:45:01 PM
The Menards oil for 99 cents a quart is the same Quaker State synthetic oil as the other deal.  There is a $2 per quart rebate in form of a merchandise credit from Menards and a $2 per quart rebate from Quaker State.  The Menards merchandise credit is not cash, but I am always buying stuff from Menards for fixing the house.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on December 05, 2015, 05:20:30 PM
The Menards oil for 99 cents a quart is the same Quaker State synthetic oil as the other deal.  There is a $2 per quart rebate in form of a merchandise credit from Menards and a $2 per quart rebate from Quaker State.  The Menards merchandise credit is not cash, but I am always buying stuff from Menards for fixing the house.

pretty sweet -- too bad there's no menards near me (plus I'm set on oil now for a couple years at least!)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: hoping2retire35 on December 14, 2015, 08:35:41 PM
Oil change every six months. 1qt of oil = great bonfire starter and no recycling...shouldn't be a problem to get rid of.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: hoping2retire35 on December 14, 2015, 08:42:19 PM
BMW z3 has oil filter right on top. Watched them the last time I took it in and was shocked. Doing my own changes from now on. 2.8 liter, 2000. Should be the same on all 2,8 and the 3 series.

I'll check out the T&C tomorrow, I think we are past warranty so I'll do our own from now on.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: paddedhat on December 15, 2015, 05:29:01 PM
The Menards oil for 99 cents a quart is the same Quaker State synthetic oil as the other deal.  There is a $2 per quart rebate in form of a merchandise credit from Menards and a $2 per quart rebate from Quaker State.  The Menards merchandise credit is not cash, but I am always buying stuff from Menards for fixing the house.
This post made me smile. We live on the east coast, and were lumbering the motorhome across the great plains this summer, when I saw the Menard's ad in a Sunday paper. I stopped and thought I would be walking out of the store with a nice case of super cheap synthetic oil for the CRV, and the chance to thoroughly impress the DW with my shopping prowess. Well, the best laid plans of..............  First, there was a giant hole in the inventory where the cases of 0-W20 used to be. Next the deal involved a store credit, with a fine print note that it could not be applied to internet transactions. In the end, the mission failed, as even if they had the oil I need, I couldn't really justify the 1000 mile trip back to Menards to use my store credit. That said, its seems like a great store.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on December 17, 2015, 08:13:26 AM
I was afraid Menards might be out of the oil over a week into the sale, but they had plenty of all grades in stock.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: bobertsen on December 17, 2015, 01:15:26 PM
For the family minivan (Chrysler T&C) under warranty, I get it serviced at the dealership. There's a Mopar maintenance package the dealership offers and charges like 60 bucks for three oil changes. No brainer there.

For our second vehicle, which is out of warranty, I do the changes myself. I buy OEM filters online and high mileage Mobil 1 (during my regular shopping trips) when it's on sale, averaging about 30 bucks for a full synthetic oil change.

I also own a classic pickup truck (1966 Ford F100) and do everything possible on it myself. OEM Motorcraft filters are widely available and super cheap, and I use conventional oil designed for diesels in that due to the general recommendations of the 50 year old straight six. It's truly an amazing difference in how easy it is to maintain everything compared to new cars.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: MasterStache on December 18, 2015, 07:35:58 AM
Depends. The oil filter in my wife's cars is very difficult to get to. I have to remove a pan under the car or the oil pours out all over the pan when I remove the filter. And I have to access the filter by contorting my skinny arm around some engine components. So occasionally she'll get her oil changed by her mechanic, especially when she has other work being done.

For my car, I change it myself. Takes literally 15-20 minutes. Cost about the same as the "quick lube" place up the street but I've had a couple bad experiences with the quick lube place. I don't trust the kids that work there. They literally are kids. Plus for the same price I can put much better motor oil and filter into my car than the quick lube place offers. They typically use the cheap shitty stuff. And want to upcharge you for better oil. 
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Cadman on December 18, 2015, 07:41:02 AM
I was thinking of this thread last night when I read this:  http://jalopnik.com/lazy-idiots-at-lube-shop-cut-hole-in-audi-s4s-aero-pan-1748394648 (http://jalopnik.com/lazy-idiots-at-lube-shop-cut-hole-in-audi-s4s-aero-pan-1748394648)  There's just no excuse....
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Faraday on December 18, 2015, 08:08:57 AM
For my car, I change it myself. Takes literally 15-20 minutes. Cost about the same as the "quick lube" place up the street but I've had a couple bad experiences with the quick lube place. I don't trust the kids that work there. They literally are kids. Plus for the same price I can put much better motor oil and filter into my car than the quick lube place offers. They typically use the cheap shitty stuff. And want to upcharge you for better oil. 

+1. You are echoing my experience as well as many others in this thread. They can all go to hell. Premium prices for shitty product and shitty work. They exist to take advantage of our mothers, wives and daughters.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: HPstache on December 18, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
Yes, I change my and my wife's oil.  As everyone has mentioned, it doesn't save a whole lot of money.  I can usually get 5 quarts of oil and a filter for around $20.00 .  Most Jiffy Lube type places charge anywhere from $30 to $35.  If you don't know what you're doing, the risk can outweigh the reward for sure... for instance, not checking to see if the old o-ring came off can be a costly mistake.  Some of the additional benefits include seeing the underside of your vehicle on a regular basis (kind of like goign in your crawl space), using quality parts and oil, and of course feeling slightly manlier.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Joggernot on December 18, 2015, 08:38:06 AM
I was thinking of this thread last night when I read this:  http://jalopnik.com/lazy-idiots-at-lube-shop-cut-hole-in-audi-s4s-aero-pan-1748394648 (http://jalopnik.com/lazy-idiots-at-lube-shop-cut-hole-in-audi-s4s-aero-pan-1748394648)  There's just no excuse....
The mind boggles... :(
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on December 21, 2015, 06:12:33 AM
Yes, I change my and my wife's oil.  As everyone has mentioned, it doesn't save a whole lot of money.  I can usually get 5 quarts of oil and a filter for around $20.00 .  Most Jiffy Lube type places charge anywhere from $30 to $35.  If you don't know what you're doing, the risk can outweigh the reward for sure... for instance, not checking to see if the old o-ring came off can be a costly mistake.  Some of the additional benefits include seeing the underside of your vehicle on a regular basis (kind of like goign in your crawl space), using quality parts and oil, and of course feeling slightly manlier.
That o-ring thing is no joke. I always lube my filter gaskets when installing the filter and try not to over-tighten them, so I have gotten in the very bad habit of not looking to make sure it came off with the filter when I change my oil.

Bought a used car a few months ago and I guess the filter that was on there hadn't had the gasket lubed and was definitely cranked down as tight as the dipshit shop jockey could get it. I pulled the old filter off, slapped a new one on, filled the oil and fired it up. Pulled it about halfway out of my garage and noticed there was a giant puddle of oil on the floor.
I lost about 3 quarts of oil all over my garage floor because I was too confident that the last person to work on the car new what they were doing to double-check my work. Definitely learned my lesson there.

It took me almost 9 hours to change the oil in two cars that day (for various other reasons).
It was not a happy day.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FunkyStickman on December 21, 2015, 09:29:10 AM
I always always always do my own oil changes and tune-ups. And my car has one of the crappiest oil filters to get through, I have to partially disassemble the intercooler piping and use a 12" extension to get to it... it's under the supercharger. Needs 7 quarts of full synthetic, too... just the oil + filter cost me $50. No way am I paying someone to screw it up.

I do all my own repairs, too, except for A/C. I don't have the tools and permits for that.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: HPstache on December 21, 2015, 09:38:17 AM
I always always always do my own oil changes and tune-ups. And my car has one of the crappiest oil filters to get through, I have to partially disassemble the intercooler piping and use a 12" extension to get to it... it's under the supercharger. Needs 7 quarts of full synthetic, too... just the oil + filter cost me $50. No way am I paying someone to screw it up.

I do all my own repairs, too, except for A/C. I don't have the tools and permits for that.

What kind of car has a factory supercharger & intercooler?  Or is it an aftermarket setup?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: BlueMR2 on December 21, 2015, 09:56:18 AM
What kind of car has a factory supercharger & intercooler?  Or is it an aftermarket setup?

1988-89 Toyota MR2s had a factory SC/IC as an option.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on December 21, 2015, 09:57:23 AM
There were a couple years where the chevy cobalt ss was supercharged too
Not to mention all kinds of high-end performance cars.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: HPstache on December 21, 2015, 10:04:18 AM
There were a couple years where the chevy cobalt ss was supercharged too
Not to mention all kinds of high-end performance cars.

Yes, but many of them don't have factory intercoolers, that's why I was interested.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: HPstache on December 21, 2015, 10:05:23 AM
What kind of car has a factory supercharger & intercooler?  Or is it an aftermarket setup?

1988-89 Toyota MR2s had a factory SC/IC as an option.

Very nice... should have known from your screen name!  I have owned two first gen MR2's... neither of which was the factory supercharged version.  Both '86, one was red and the other black. Very fun cars, would love to own another one :)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on December 21, 2015, 10:23:35 AM
I know that recent/not so old Mitsu Lancer Evo's have stock intercoolers
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on December 21, 2015, 10:26:05 AM
I know that recent/not so old Mitsu Lancer Evo's have stock intercoolers
Evos are turbo, not supercharged
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on December 21, 2015, 10:35:22 AM
Good point, actually! Supers just might not need it
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on December 21, 2015, 10:44:50 AM
Good point, actually! Supers just might not need it
Yes and no. The reason intercoolers are so important on a turbocharged car is because the air being compressed is being compressed in extremely close proximity to where the hot exhaust gasses are spinning the turbine. Since cool air is more dense and less damaging to intake components, it is beneficial to run the compressed air through a cooling system before entering it into the intake.
Because a supercharger is driven by a belt usually connected to the crank shaft, you don't have the problem of a really hot exhaust warming up your intake air, but when a gas is compressed it tends to heat up so the forced induction from a non-intercooled supercharger is still generally hotter than ambient temperatures. An intercooler on a supercharger will help it to keep the charged air cool and dense, but has the drawback of creating "lag" while the air in the cooling system compresses. Since superchargers are generally used to improve torque and power low in the rev range, this kind of lag is somewhat counter-productive and the reason many supercharged systems aren't intercooled.
Turbochargers, on the other hand, are generally designed to come into "boost" higher in the rev range and can afford to have the added time of an intercooled system while compression builds.

This is the reason it was asked what car had an intercooled supercharger. Those two things combined aren't very common.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FerrumB5 on December 21, 2015, 10:46:32 AM
All correct. I'm an ex-physicist, so I have good understanding of how it all works in terms of PV = NkT etc
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on December 21, 2015, 10:50:26 AM
All correct. I'm an ex-physicist, so I have good understanding of how it all works in terms of PV = NkT etc
I'm just Mech. Engineer and a car lover.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FunkyStickman on December 21, 2015, 01:06:48 PM

What kind of car has a factory supercharger & intercooler?  Or is it an aftermarket setup?

An '06 Saturn Ion Red Line. Has one of those cartridge filters that goes into a hole in the block. On the regular N/A cars, it's easy to get to cause it's right on the front of the block. On the Red Line, the supercharger hangs forward right on top of it. It's damn near impossible to get out. Don't even get me started on the air filter... you have to disassemble the entire intake from the throttle body down to get it out.

(EDIT)
It's the car they based the Cobalt SS on, has the same drivetrain and suspension. Has a factory water/air intercooler built into the intake manifold, and a heat exchanger between the A/C condenser and radiator.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: stlbrah on January 06, 2016, 04:35:54 PM
absolutely hate changing oil. I kicked the pan over once and decided I would never do it again.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Secretly Saving on January 06, 2016, 04:50:02 PM
All car things (oil change, motor swap, rewiring, carpet, alignment etc) done in the home garage.  It's great!    We only outsource specialty work like painting. 
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 06, 2016, 05:48:16 PM
All car things (oil change, motor swap, rewiring, carpet, alignment etc) done in the home garage.  It's great!    We only outsource specialty work like painting.

Any tips on alignment? 
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 06, 2016, 09:55:15 PM
All car things (oil change, motor swap, rewiring, carpet, alignment etc) done in the home garage.  It's great!    We only outsource specialty work like painting.

Any tips on alignment?
Put a push pin into each tire towards the rear, just below the frame of the car, and measure the distance between them.  Then roll the car forward until the pins are on the front, just below the frame, and measure again.  If they're equal, your toe is 0 degrees.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 06, 2016, 11:13:24 PM
All car things (oil change, motor swap, rewiring, carpet, alignment etc) done in the home garage.  It's great!    We only outsource specialty work like painting.

Any tips on alignment?
Put a push pin into each tire towards the rear, just below the frame of the car, and measure the distance between them.  Then roll the car forward until the pins are on the front, just below the frame, and measure again.  If they're equal, your toe is 0 degrees.

I'm guessing this works best with a lot of tread... otherwise nice prank
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: hoping2retire35 on January 07, 2016, 05:44:17 AM
Since all the gearheads are on this one...

Does anyone know if it is ok to put regular air in nitrogen filled tires? We have a newer car that has only had nitrogen in the tires but they are starting to wear on the sides and I wanted to over inflate a little with my own pump instead of trying to get someone from a shop convinced to do it. I know you can't take the 'bad' air out but since they are almost worn anyways didn't know if it matters. I guess it would not mess up the tire sensors or anything else.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 07, 2016, 07:15:02 AM
Since all the gearheads are on this one...

Does anyone know if it is ok to put regular air in nitrogen filled tires? We have a newer car that has only had nitrogen in the tires but they are starting to wear on the sides and I wanted to over inflate a little with my own pump instead of trying to get someone from a shop convinced to do it. I know you can't take the 'bad' air out but since they are almost worn anyways didn't know if it matters. I guess it would not mess up the tire sensors or anything else.
Filling your tires with pure nitrogen won't actually do anything unless *maybe* you're racing on a track.  There's no such thing as "bad air" in a tire, and if you fill it with plain air, it's 78% nitrogen anyway.

Go ahead, fill your tires yourself--you're not going to hurt anything (except someone's profits).
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 07, 2016, 12:23:32 PM
Since all the gearheads are on this one...

Does anyone know if it is ok to put regular air in nitrogen filled tires? We have a newer car that has only had nitrogen in the tires but they are starting to wear on the sides and I wanted to over inflate a little with my own pump instead of trying to get someone from a shop convinced to do it. I know you can't take the 'bad' air out but since they are almost worn anyways didn't know if it matters. I guess it would not mess up the tire sensors or anything else.
Filling your tires with pure nitrogen won't actually do anything unless *maybe* you're racing on a track.  There's no such thing as "bad air" in a tire, and if you fill it with plain air, it's 78% nitrogen anyway.

Go ahead, fill your tires yourself--you're not going to hurt anything (except someone's profits).

I had to look up the advantages of nitrogen filled tires.  Seems nitrogen escapes slower than other gasses.  So over time, shouldn't you end up close to 100% anyways?  I wonder how many times you have to refill to make a significant change... Brb excel
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 07, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
Filling your tires with pure nitrogen won't actually do anything unless *maybe* you're racing on a track.  There's no such thing as "bad air" in a tire, and if you fill it with plain air, it's 78% nitrogen anyway.

Go ahead, fill your tires yourself--you're not going to hurt anything (except someone's profits).

I had to look up the advantages of nitrogen filled tires.  Seems nitrogen escapes slower than other gasses.  So over time, shouldn't you end up close to 100% anyways?  I wonder how many times you have to refill to make a significant change... Brb excel
Bwahahahahaha!  That sounds like something i'd do....
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Gevans17 on January 08, 2016, 07:32:21 PM
I do it myself so I know what was done.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reverend on January 10, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I change my own oil.  Mobil 1 full synthetic at 6 quarts is $14, plus the Mann filters are $4 each.  I have a Fumoto valve so it really takes no time whatsoever. I also take the opportunity to analyze the oil the first time I do a change on a new-to-me car so I know what shape the engine is in.

It also gives me time to poke around under the car to see if anything else needs maintenance.

I just re-read this entire thread.  I'm curious about the "shitty FRAM filters" comments.  I have *never* seen an engine destruct from a crappy filter. I've never even heard of it.
I've seen one filter pop, but there were other issues at play on a very tuned/built engine that operated way outside of factory specs.

Intercoolers?  I think you'd have to look to old Mercedes cars to find anything with forced induction WITHOUT intercoolers.  I could be wrong, but I wager they're more common than not.

Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: big_owl on January 10, 2016, 06:52:09 AM
I change all my bikes and my old WRX (yes it too has an intercooler) myself.  My wife has her Jetta TDI done at the dealer since it goes in there for service checkups every 10k miles or so anyway.

Only thing I have to be cautious of doing it myself is to use a torque wrench when putting the plug back in - my arm-calibrated torque wrench is always a bit too heavy-handed.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Joggernot on January 10, 2016, 07:04:50 AM
+1 on the Fumoto valve.

One older Honda had an oil plug torque of 26 in-lbs.  I used an 8-inch crescent wrench to tighten it with a slight twist of the wrist.  Never leaked.  Took it only once to an oil change place a little after 200k miles.  They stripped the plug and put in an oversize plug that leaked.  I sold the car the next month.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FunkyStickman on January 11, 2016, 09:29:53 AM
Some cars even have top side cartridge oil filters so you don't have the pain of dealing with a regular oil filter underneath the car.

What cars?

4-cylinder GM Ecotec motors have this.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: Manguy888 on January 11, 2016, 10:41:41 AM
I just changed my oil for the first time in my Scion, and am about to do my CRV next. I loved it.

Even if the money savings aren't great, I'd encourage everyone to do it once. I got a real buzz from actually working on my car and understanding a small part of how it works. Once you've done it once, you can feel free to go back to paying for it, but at least you understand what you're paying for. You're no longer working from a place of ignorance.

One of my 2016 resolutions is to move up to more high-value work like changing brake pads and rotors.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 11, 2016, 11:45:04 AM
I just changed my oil for the first time in my Scion, and am about to do my CRV next. I loved it.

Even if the money savings aren't great, I'd encourage everyone to do it once. I got a real buzz from actually working on my car and understanding a small part of how it works. Once you've done it once, you can feel free to go back to paying for it, but at least you understand what you're paying for. You're no longer working from a place of ignorance.

One of my 2016 resolutions is to move up to more high-value work like changing brake pads and rotors.

This is really the best reason to do it.  I'm still kicking myself for once paying a furnace repair guy like $150 to change a $10 capacitor.  Classic example of "$10: part, $140: knowing which part to use".  If I had taken the time to learn basic furnace maintenance I would have been able to handle it myself, but I'd also know which jobs I didn't want to do myself.

For me, Diy oil changes was the gateway to realizing I actually like working on cars.  I just did my spark plugs and am likely to try my timing belt and water pump after those "wins"
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: reader2580 on January 11, 2016, 12:22:37 PM
I change my own oil.  Mobil 1 full synthetic at 6 quarts is $14, plus the Mann filters are $4 each.  I have a Fumoto valve so it really takes no time whatsoever. I also take the opportunity to analyze the oil the first time I do a change on a new-to-me car so I know what shape the engine is in.

You must be getting a heck of a sale price on Mobil 1 oil if you are only paying $2.67 a quart!
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on January 11, 2016, 01:46:27 PM
I just changed my oil for the first time in my Scion, and am about to do my CRV next. I loved it.

Even if the money savings aren't great, I'd encourage everyone to do it once. I got a real buzz from actually working on my car and understanding a small part of how it works. Once you've done it once, you can feel free to go back to paying for it, but at least you understand what you're paying for. You're no longer working from a place of ignorance.

One of my 2016 resolutions is to move up to more high-value work like changing brake pads and rotors.

This is really the best reason to do it.  I'm still kicking myself for once paying a furnace repair guy like $150 to change a $10 capacitor.  Classic example of "$10: part, $140: knowing which part to use".  If I had taken the time to learn basic furnace maintenance I would have been able to handle it myself, but I'd also know which jobs I didn't want to do myself.

For me, Diy oil changes was the gateway to realizing I actually like working on cars.  I just did my spark plugs and am likely to try my timing belt and water pump after those "wins"
Fair warning; timing belt replacement is a hell of a lot more complicated than spark plugs. Unless you are really confident in what you're doing or willing for your car to be out of commission for a few days I would recommend against a timing belt job.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JLee on January 11, 2016, 01:58:23 PM
I change my own oil.  Mobil 1 full synthetic at 6 quarts is $14, plus the Mann filters are $4 each.  I have a Fumoto valve so it really takes no time whatsoever. I also take the opportunity to analyze the oil the first time I do a change on a new-to-me car so I know what shape the engine is in.

You must be getting a heck of a sale price on Mobil 1 oil if you are only paying $2.67 a quart!

No kidding! I paid $27.99 for 6 quarts ($4.665/qt) a couple of weeks ago and I was happy with that.

What kind of car has a factory supercharger & intercooler?  Or is it an aftermarket setup?

1988-89 Toyota MR2s had a factory SC/IC as an option.
03-04 Mustang Cobras as well.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: HPstache on January 11, 2016, 02:01:46 PM
I change my own oil.  Mobil 1 full synthetic at 6 quarts is $14, plus the Mann filters are $4 each.  I have a Fumoto valve so it really takes no time whatsoever. I also take the opportunity to analyze the oil the first time I do a change on a new-to-me car so I know what shape the engine is in.

You must be getting a heck of a sale price on Mobil 1 oil if you are only paying $2.67 a quart!

Yeah, um, please let me know where I can buy Mobil 1 Synthetic at under half price so I can load up :)
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 11, 2016, 02:04:56 PM
I change my own oil.  Mobil 1 full synthetic at 6 quarts is $14, plus the Mann filters are $4 each.  I have a Fumoto valve so it really takes no time whatsoever. I also take the opportunity to analyze the oil the first time I do a change on a new-to-me car so I know what shape the engine is in.

You must be getting a heck of a sale price on Mobil 1 oil if you are only paying $2.67 a quart!

Yeah, um, please let me know where I can buy Mobil 1 Synthetic at under half price so I can load up :)
I keep hearing people saying that SlickDeals occasionally has $12 rebates for it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 11, 2016, 02:12:21 PM
I just changed my oil for the first time in my Scion, and am about to do my CRV next. I loved it.

Even if the money savings aren't great, I'd encourage everyone to do it once. I got a real buzz from actually working on my car and understanding a small part of how it works. Once you've done it once, you can feel free to go back to paying for it, but at least you understand what you're paying for. You're no longer working from a place of ignorance.

One of my 2016 resolutions is to move up to more high-value work like changing brake pads and rotors.



This is really the best reason to do it.  I'm still kicking myself for once paying a furnace repair guy like $150 to change a $10 capacitor.  Classic example of "$10: part, $140: knowing which part to use".  If I had taken the time to learn basic furnace maintenance I would have been able to handle it myself, but I'd also know which jobs I didn't want to do myself.

For me, Diy oil changes was the gateway to realizing I actually like working on cars.  I just did my spark plugs and am likely to try my timing belt and water pump after those "wins"
Fair warning; timing belt replacement is a hell of a lot more complicated than spark plugs. Unless you are really confident in what you're doing or willing for your car to be out of commission for a few days I would recommend against a timing belt job.

I'm pretty confident after watching some videos... what exactly do you consider the hard part to be?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: GoatStache on January 11, 2016, 06:44:37 PM
Depends on the make and model of your car

I have a corolla, I can always get good mobil one deals from Costco for oil (5W-20 or 30 depending on which corolla)

I can get paper filters for my 2010 off of ebay pretty cheap.

I grab a fram one cheap at walmart for my 2006, I look every now and then for oil rebates or filter rebates... some are amazing and some are meh.. ymmv.

This is a very cheap way to run synthetic oil in my cars and make sure the change is done properly.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FunkyStickman on January 12, 2016, 01:06:18 PM
Fair warning; timing belt replacement is a hell of a lot more complicated than spark plugs. Unless you are really confident in what you're doing or willing for your car to be out of commission for a few days I would recommend against a timing belt job.

I'm pretty confident after watching some videos... what exactly do you consider the hard part to be?

I've done a few on FWD cars. The belt is hard to get to, for one. Second, you'd better be real damn sure the cam(s) are timed correctly when you put it back together, or it 1. won't run, or 2. will destroy the valvetrain. It's also hard to get the belt on the pulleys, unless you can back the tensioner off a lot.

That being said, both the ones I did ran afterwards, so... it is possible. Just not much fun, and there is some risk involved.

Here's me doing the belt on my friend's Escort ZX2: it had some sort of mechanical intake cam advance thing that we were supposed to reset, but required pulling the cam gear and using a special tool... I put it back together without doing that, and it ran, but the cam advance was disabled (didn't hurt the motor, just didn't make as much power on the top end).

(EDIT)
For the record, I know what I'm doing and it still took me about 4-5 hours to do it. I took it slow and made sure I didn't screw anything up. The belt itself cost $50, the mechanic wanted $300 to change it. My friend was flat broke, so I offered to do it.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 12, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Fair warning; timing belt replacement is a hell of a lot more complicated than spark plugs. Unless you are really confident in what you're doing or willing for your car to be out of commission for a few days I would recommend against a timing belt job.

I'm pretty confident after watching some videos... what exactly do you consider the hard part to be?

I've done a few on FWD cars. The belt is hard to get to, for one. Second, you'd better be real damn sure the cam(s) are timed correctly when you put it back together, or it 1. won't run, or 2. will destroy the valvetrain. It's also hard to get the belt on the pulleys, unless you can back the tensioner off a lot.

That being said, both the ones I did ran afterwards, so... it is possible. Just not much fun, and there is some risk involved.

Here's me doing the belt on my friend's Escort ZX2: it had some sort of mechanical intake cam advance thing that we were supposed to reset, but required pulling the cam gear and using a special tool... I put it back together without doing that, and it ran, but the cam advance was disabled (didn't hurt the motor, just didn't make as much power on the top end).

(EDIT)
For the record, I know what I'm doing and it still took me about 4-5 hours to do it. I took it slow and made sure I didn't screw anything up. The belt itself cost $50, the mechanic wanted $300 to change it. My friend was flat broke, so I offered to do it.

It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: FunkyStickman on January 13, 2016, 09:11:11 AM
It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.

What kind of car do you have? European import?
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 13, 2016, 11:45:08 AM
It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.

What kind of car do you have? European import?

Accord v6, but expensive area.  I could probably get it down if I don't do the water pump, etc. but that just increases the cost for those separate items at a later time.  That's also what I paid last time to a trusted mechanic, I could probably pay less if I shop around, or drive out of the metro area (but then what do I do while I wait?).  However all that takes time that I could be spending doing it myself and learnin

I still have 1-2 years before the 7-year mark for replacement, so we will see.  Hopefully I'm fired by then.

It's not the most mustachian car, but I've had it for a while and took good care or it, so I think the value I get out of it exceeds the private market value.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on January 14, 2016, 06:49:33 AM
It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.

What kind of car do you have? European import?

Accord v6, but expensive area.  I could probably get it down if I don't do the water pump, etc. but that just increases the cost for those separate items at a later time.  That's also what I paid last time to a trusted mechanic, I could probably pay less if I shop around, or drive out of the metro area (but then what do I do while I wait?).  However all that takes time that I could be spending doing it myself and learnin

I still have 1-2 years before the 7-year mark for replacement, so we will see.  Hopefully I'm fired by then.

It's not the most mustachian car, but I've had it for a while and took good care or it, so I think the value I get out of it exceeds the private market value.
does it have 2 or 4 cams? Timing a V-engine will be a nightmare. I have done a couple belt replacements on dohc and sohc civics and getting the cams and the crank shaft all lined up at DTC is the most frustrating and tedious part of it. Some older sohc hondas have a motor mount in the middle of the timing belt so you have to partially remove the engine to change the belt. A problem I had with my DOHC timing belt was that there wasn't actually enough room to get a socket on the tensioner pulley bolt and it was inside of the pulley so I couldn't get a crescent or box wrench on it either. Basically my only option was to take pry the belt onto the cam gear with it in full tension.
 
Some cars are easier than others, but it's definitely something I always hate doing.
That said, if you're going to do the belt you might as well do the water pump while the belt is off.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: dragoncar on January 14, 2016, 10:41:00 AM
It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.

What kind of car do you have? European import?

Accord v6, but expensive area.  I could probably get it down if I don't do the water pump, etc. but that just increases the cost for those separate items at a later time.  That's also what I paid last time to a trusted mechanic, I could probably pay less if I shop around, or drive out of the metro area (but then what do I do while I wait?).  However all that takes time that I could be spending doing it myself and learnin

I still have 1-2 years before the 7-year mark for replacement, so we will see.  Hopefully I'm fired by then.

It's not the most mustachian car, but I've had it for a while and took good care or it, so I think the value I get out of it exceeds the private market value.
does it have 2 or 4 cams? Timing a V-engine will be a nightmare. I have done a couple belt replacements on dohc and sohc civics and getting the cams and the crank shaft all lined up at DTC is the most frustrating and tedious part of it. Some older sohc hondas have a motor mount in the middle of the timing belt so you have to partially remove the engine to change the belt. A problem I had with my DOHC timing belt was that there wasn't actually enough room to get a socket on the tensioner pulley bolt and it was inside of the pulley so I couldn't get a crescent or box wrench on it either. Basically my only option was to take pry the belt onto the cam gear with it in full tension.
 
Some cars are easier than others, but it's definitely something I always hate doing.
That said, if you're going to do the belt you might as well do the water pump while the belt is off.

2
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on January 14, 2016, 11:48:22 AM
It costs about $1k for my car, so even if it takes me 10 hours it's still a great investment.

What kind of car do you have? European import?

Accord v6, but expensive area.  I could probably get it down if I don't do the water pump, etc. but that just increases the cost for those separate items at a later time.  That's also what I paid last time to a trusted mechanic, I could probably pay less if I shop around, or drive out of the metro area (but then what do I do while I wait?).  However all that takes time that I could be spending doing it myself and learnin

I still have 1-2 years before the 7-year mark for replacement, so we will see.  Hopefully I'm fired by then.

It's not the most mustachian car, but I've had it for a while and took good care or it, so I think the value I get out of it exceeds the private market value.
does it have 2 or 4 cams? Timing a V-engine will be a nightmare. I have done a couple belt replacements on dohc and sohc civics and getting the cams and the crank shaft all lined up at DTC is the most frustrating and tedious part of it. Some older sohc hondas have a motor mount in the middle of the timing belt so you have to partially remove the engine to change the belt. A problem I had with my DOHC timing belt was that there wasn't actually enough room to get a socket on the tensioner pulley bolt and it was inside of the pulley so I couldn't get a crescent or box wrench on it either. Basically my only option was to take pry the belt onto the cam gear with it in full tension.
 
Some cars are easier than others, but it's definitely something I always hate doing.
That said, if you're going to do the belt you might as well do the water pump while the belt is off.

2
I'll share a very important lesson learned then.
I'm not sure about the accord's v6, but my D and B series 4-cylinders all had alignment holes in the cam shafts. If you rotate everything to top dead center before removing the belt, you can use a small metal dowel (I used an allen wrench) through the cam guide into the cam shaft to lock it into place so that it doesn't rotate while you're working. Makes timing it a whole lot easier. The pins will only go into the cam shafts at tdc and 180 degrees off tdc and there should be markings on the cam gears and crank shaft to help you figure out which one you're at. I shaved about 3 hours off of my last water pump replacement by locking the cams before taking the belt off. I wish that bit of advice had been more prominent in the Honda forums.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 14, 2016, 02:46:08 PM
I just mark the pulleys and old belt with a paint pen or chalk, transfer the markings to the new belt, and line up the markings on the new belt with the markings on the pulleys when re-installing.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on January 15, 2016, 05:54:58 AM
I just mark the pulleys and old belt with a paint pen or chalk, transfer the markings to the new belt, and line up the markings on the new belt with the markings on the pulleys when re-installing.
That's not as accurate as using the factory top dead markings and you run the risk of being one or two teeth off. With an interference engine, one tooth off means valves hitting the piston.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: zolotiyeruki on January 15, 2016, 07:55:33 AM
I just mark the pulleys and old belt with a paint pen or chalk, transfer the markings to the new belt, and line up the markings on the new belt with the markings on the pulleys when re-installing.
That's not as accurate as using the factory top dead markings and you run the risk of being one or two teeth off. With an interference engine, one tooth off means valves hitting the piston.
I don't understand how it's inaccurate--you end up with the exact same spacing at the end as what you start with, assuming you're careful in the process.

And yes, I check the TDC markings too :).  Belt and suspenders.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: JordanOfGilead on January 15, 2016, 10:28:37 AM
I just mark the pulleys and old belt with a paint pen or chalk, transfer the markings to the new belt, and line up the markings on the new belt with the markings on the pulleys when re-installing.
That's not as accurate as using the factory top dead markings and you run the risk of being one or two teeth off. With an interference engine, one tooth off means valves hitting the piston.
I don't understand how it's inaccurate--you end up with the exact same spacing at the end as what you start with, assuming you're careful in the process.

And yes, I check the TDC markings too :).  Belt and suspenders.
Because you are lining a mark up from the gears to the belt to another belt back to the gears there are a lot of chances for the thick line drawn by chalk/a paint pen to move a little and it only takes a couple mm total between the three marks (crank, and both cams) to throw the timing off. The crank pulley and cam gears should have marks on them that line up with something on the head/block and those things are held constant. There is no transferring of a mark and less risk of a mistake being made.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: enigmaT120 on January 15, 2016, 02:49:37 PM

I'll share a very important lesson learned then.
I'm not sure about the accord's v6, but my D and B series 4-cylinders all had alignment holes in the cam shafts. If you rotate everything to top dead center before removing the belt, you can use a small metal dowel (I used an allen wrench) through the cam guide into the cam shaft to lock it into place so that it doesn't rotate while you're working.

I wish I had known about that.  I am happy to say that my current Honda 3 cylinder engine has a timing chain, not a belt.  :-)

'04 Insight.
Title: Re: Oil changes: DIY or just pay for it?
Post by: ketchup on January 27, 2016, 01:21:47 PM
I'll share a very important lesson learned then.
I'm not sure about the accord's v6, but my D and B series 4-cylinders all had alignment holes in the cam shafts. If you rotate everything to top dead center before removing the belt, you can use a small metal dowel (I used an allen wrench) through the cam guide into the cam shaft to lock it into place so that it doesn't rotate while you're working. Makes timing it a whole lot easier. The pins will only go into the cam shafts at tdc and 180 degrees off tdc and there should be markings on the cam gears and crank shaft to help you figure out which one you're at. I shaved about 3 hours off of my last water pump replacement by locking the cams before taking the belt off. I wish that bit of advice had been more prominent in the Honda forums.
Yes!  I did a five-cylinder Volvo timing belt, and it was a nightmare compared to my three-cylinder Metro, but it would have been a lot worse without locking the cams with this nifty tool that came with my timing belt component kit:
(https://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_newsletters/3106.jpg)
Made me a hell of a lot more confident that I had everything lined up right, and that was an interference engine.  I think separately it would have been something obscene like $25-30, but I would pay that for being sure I wasn't about to blow up my engine.