Author Topic: Kitchen angst  (Read 9905 times)

crumbcatcher

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Kitchen angst
« on: January 09, 2014, 05:03:51 PM »
A questions for the Mustachian DIY'ers out there... :-)

I own a condo that was built in the early 70's.  Most of the unit was remodeled before I bought it, but the kitchen, I swear, is original.  The stove is getting to a point where I *really* need to replace it, I'm starting to be concerned it's a safety issue, which brings me to my question.

I don't want to remodel the entire kitchen (yet), which is really the reason why I haven't replaced the stove yet.  The stove is one of those old "drop-in" styles (it sits on a wooden block that is part of the cabinets instead of having a drawer below and sitting on the floor directly), and is in a width that is no longer standard (27" vs the more common 30").  I am seeing a few choices:

1.  Pay much more than I'd like to for a non-standard stove that I will then have to build around when I finally do remodel my kitchen.

2.  Pay much more than I'd like to for a non-standard stove that I will then scrap when I finally remodel my kitchen (because I doubt I'll be able to resell it).

3.  Remodel my kitchen sooner than I'd like so that a standard sized stove can be accomodated.

4.  Do some kind of cabinet hacking experiment to cut out enough space for a standard stove without touching the rest of the kitchen.

Honestly, I'm leaning toward #4, but I don't have any tools or know-how to modify my existing cabinets/counters, and I'm not friends with anyone who does.

I could always do some reading, rent the tools and take my life and kitchen into my own hands to do some kind of ugly hack-job, or I can hire someone to do it for me.  I'm not confident in my ability to learn what I need to in order to do this.

Does anyone see any other options?  Or have any advice?  I really, really want to replace my stove, and I really don't want to replace it with another non-standard one.

Spork

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 05:27:14 PM »
I think you might want to decide on the stove before you decide on the path.  If you're seriously into cooking, you might find the stove you want is a different size than 30".  Ours is just under 38".  We had the luxury of building the kitchen around a known size... so before you hack, figure out where you are headed.

... and just because a stove is old doesn't mean it is unsafe.  (It might mean that, but not necessarily.)  Our stove is from 1951.

Another Reader

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 05:36:36 PM »
Ouch!  Finding a 27 inch drop in stove is going to be difficult and expensive.  Try Craigslist to catch someone who is remodeling or hit your local Habitat Restore if you have one.  Put a note up in your common area to see if someone else is remodeling and wants to get rid of a working version of your stove.  You could try to find a 27 inch wall oven and a cook top to set into the counter, but that involves creating a cabinet box for the oven and a new countertop for the cook top.

Greg

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 06:29:51 PM »
I'd opt for #4 myself for now.  Depending on a lot of factors, it could be pretty easy to enlarge the drop-in hole. 

Another Reader

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 07:32:22 PM »
Can you pull the countertop off and move the cabinets on one side of the stove to accommodate a standard 30 inch free-standing range?  Then replace the countertop with the big box store laminate until you are ready to do the whole kitchen, unless you can trim and move the existing laminate as well.

dragoncar

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 07:56:58 PM »
I'm having trouble visualizing this... it drops into a slot in the counter, but is only a few inches thick?

What is the danger?

Is it just the range? 

How much do you cook?

Is it electric?

If you don't care about looks right now, you can always get a craigslist hot-plate and use that.

Or get a new range and attempt to install it yourself, even if poorly, knowing a real remodel will happen in some years.

monarda

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 08:07:25 PM »
Yes, what is the danger?
If, for example, the burners are arcing on an electric stove,  they can be replaced for around $20 each.
Stoves aren't very complicated appliances.

Another Reader

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 08:30:22 PM »
How about posting some pictures?  There are a lot of DIY folks here that will give you suggestions if they see the layout.

Longwaytogo

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 09:25:23 PM »
I second the request for pics. #4 may be easier then you think.

PantsOnFire

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 07:21:15 AM »
Are you talking about a combo stove/oven range, or just a cooktop?  Narrow drop-in cooktops are still available.  See here:
http://www.sears.com/frigidaire-26-in-electric-cooktop-with-coil-elements/p-02222102000P?prdNo=48&blockNo=48&blockType=G48#

Not suggesting you throw $500 at it, but since they are still being sold new, there are bound to be some on the used market if you look hard enough. 

crumbcatcher

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 12:56:25 PM »
This is the kind of stove I would need to replace the current one if I didn't want to make any changes to my kitchen.  This is the only one of this type that I've been able to find new, I've had no luck finding them used so far:

http://www.sears.com/ge-27inch-drop-in-electric-range-white/p-02230392000P?prdNo=11&blockNo=11&blockType=G11

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  I will take some pics of the kitchen and get them uploaded soon.

One thing that stands out to me as a big "AH-HAH!" based on comments above is that I do have another option open to me that I hadn't considered, namely, fixing my current stove.  I've been going on the assumption that I need to replace it, fixing it hadn't even occurred to me.  This is why this forum is so valuable!

The main safety issue I'm perceiving is a popping sound coming from the back of the stove, where it is wired directly into the wall with an old cord-covered cable (not sure how to describe it, really, it isn't a vinyl cable like we see now on plugs).  It looks and sounds scary to me as someone who knows nothing about electrical wiring.  The burners do arc at times, which is also scary, so I appreciate the poster who suggested just replacing those.

I'm going to do some more in-depth analysis and troubleshooting to narrow down what is actually happening (hey, I'm a systems analyst, I should be able to identify what's happening better than this...duh) and then decide whether I REALLY need to replace it or whether I might be able to fix it myself or have it fixed.

Thanks again for all the ideas!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 12:58:14 PM by crumbcatcher »

Greg

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 02:07:11 PM »
Sounds like a loose connection in the wall box where the stove's wires connect to the house wires.  A simple inspection and re-tightening of the connections (probably wire nuts) might be the fix.  Turn off the power to the stove at the breaker/fuse panel before investigating.

ksfrank

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 06:02:54 PM »
My husband replaced our counter top set-up with a standard range a few years back by cutting.  I was not convinced it would look nice - but he told me he could do it.  I can ask him exactly what he did if you want more info.  (jigsaw and slow, mostly, I think)  The edges are there but they still look nice 14 years later. 

We had one of those set-ups from the 1970's that had a cook top that dropped into the counter top and then an oven box that slid into a cabinet frame under it.  Nothing set on the floor.  Now, its a standard range that slides in.  We spent nothing except for buying the range. 

We did the same thing on the other side of the kitchen when we slid the refrigerator over 6".  In that case, it was only a countertop that he had to carefully slice. 

bogart

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 07:16:31 PM »
The  "repair it" idea sounds worthwhile to look into (if you don't look into that, maybe turn off the power via a circuit, if you can, just in case?).

How much do you cook?  I lived 3 years as a single chick with just something like this (search at e.g. Amazon):  Brentwood Double Burner White for a stove, and did just fine.

geekette

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 10:06:13 PM »
Old stoves can be fixed (at least we hope!)  We just bought (expensive) replacement push button switches for my FIL's cooktop.  Original kitchen, built in the 50's.  The control panel was built into the front of the cabinet below the stainless steel cooktop dropped into the turquoise counter.   

He put a pot on to boil water, then fell asleep.  The aluminum bottom of the pan melted into the coil.  He's at the age where change is very hard, otherwise we'd drop in a new cooktop. 

</threadjack>

anastrophe

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 02:48:58 PM »
Look into fixing it up, if you don't have to replace anything that would obviously be best. Otherwise...my parents had this problem in their 1940's house and opted for #4. Their stove was in a block of cabinets and they had three of the cabinets to the left removed, left the right side ones alone, and put in a shelving unit where the old cabinets used to be. Looks nice now, just less counter space.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 10:18:06 AM »
Fix it or cut a bigger hole. If you're planning on remodeling soonish, the hole doesn't have to be pretty.

Jigsaw, or better, a hacksaw will do very little damage to the counter top (finer the teeth, the slower the cut, but less jaggies). If it's laminate, score the cut lines with a ruler and a linoleum knife to avoid jagged edges.

Consider where you might lop off cabinets and just stick a free-standing range in.

Daleth

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 10:46:47 AM »
This is the kind of stove I would need to replace the current one if I didn't want to make any changes to my kitchen.  This is the only one of this type that I've been able to find new, I've had no luck finding them used so far:

http://www.sears.com/ge-27inch-drop-in-electric-range-white/p-02230392000P?prdNo=11&blockNo=11&blockType=G11

Oh christ. That's wretched and wretchedly expensive. My vote is for the cabinet hack. You just need to chop 3" off one of the cabinets beside the stove, and its associated countertop--the cabinet and counter on the other side, you don't need to touch.

What's your current countertop made of? Formica? What do you want to use in your future kitchen? My fave materials are butcher block (which you can get incredibly cheap at Ikea or many lumberyards, and waterproof yourself) and stainless steel (which can take all KINDS of abuse and still look great). YMMV but ideally you'll want to figure this out now, because unless your current countertop is a solid surface (such as Corian), you'll be exposing particle board to the elements by cutting 3" off it, and that will go south FAST. So assuming you don't have a solid surface, your best bet is to either replace the part of counter you cut (and everything it's connected to) with the kind of counter you want in the future, or replace it with butcher block (see "incredibly cheap" above) for now.

Like everything this is easier said than done, but assuming you have the normal one drawer/one cabinet door configuration on one of those cabinets beside the stove, here's what you do:

- Order a new drawer box, drawer front and cabinet door in the size you will need. (Obviously this will require you to do some planning and some math; alternately you could leave this step for last, after you've cut down the existing cabinet, but that will leave you without a drawer and door for a while). The best place I know of to do this is the Drawer Depot (http://www.drawerbuilder.com/). We used them to re-face my mom's kitchen and they were fabulous, fast and cheap. And by "fabulous" I mean it all seemed good quality. Obviously your most economical move is to decide how you will want your kitchen to look when you do get around to remodeling it, and order the drawer front and door to go with your future kitchen rather than your existing kitchen.

-  Find a skilled person (which may be yourself) to remove the stove, remove the countertop on the side you need to trim, remove the bit of cabinet that supports your stove from below, saw off about 3.5" on one of the side cabinets and rebuild/reinforce that side so that it can support a countertop and hold a drawer. You'll want to saw off a bit more than the bare minimum 3" you need for the stove, both to ensure it's not really hard to get the stove in or out, and to ensure that the new drawer will not rub against the stove when you open or close it. Sometimes stove doors are a hair wider than the stove body, so if the cabinet is tight and the drawer front comes all the way to the edge of it, there can be some rubbing.

- Make sure the setup behind your stove is as it needs to be for the new one. Electrical may need to be updated.

- Install new stove.

- Install countertop (shortened by 3"-3.25"--get the exact measurements on the stove and figure this out; usually countertops stick out a touch closer to the stove than the cabinets under them do).

- Install your new drawer and door.

Voila! Like I said, easier said than done, but totally doable. And if you change your mind about how you want the cabinets to look when you do your eventual remodel, all you have to do on this particular cabinet is swap out the drawer front and door front--that should cost less than $100, shipping included.

* Edited to add *: if you have a laminate countertop, you could conceivably just trim it down and then seal the end with some good adhesive and a strip of laminate--which of course doesn't need to match the counter at all, since it won't be visible.

jpvt128

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2018, 02:39:11 PM »
A questions for the Mustachian DIY'ers out there... :-)

I own a condo that was built in the early 70's.  Most of the unit was remodeled before I bought it, but the kitchen, I swear, is original.  The stove is getting to a point where I *really* need to replace it, I'm starting to be concerned it's a safety issue, which brings me to my question.

I don't want to remodel the entire kitchen (yet), which is really the reason why I haven't replaced the stove yet.  The stove is one of those old "drop-in" styles (it sits on a wooden block that is part of the cabinets instead of having a drawer below and sitting on the floor directly), and is in a width that is no longer standard (27" vs the more common 30").  I am seeing a few choices:

1.  Pay much more than I'd like to for a non-standard stove that I will then have to build around when I finally do remodel my kitchen.

2.  Pay much more than I'd like to for a non-standard stove that I will then scrap when I finally remodel my kitchen (because I doubt I'll be able to resell it).

3.  Remodel my kitchen sooner than I'd like so that a standard sized stove can be accomodated.

4.  Do some kind of cabinet hacking experiment to cut out enough space for a standard stove without touching the rest of the kitchen.

Honestly, I'm leaning toward #4, but I don't have any tools or know-how to modify my existing cabinets/counters, and I'm not friends with anyone who does.

I could always do some reading, rent the tools and take my life and kitchen into my own hands to do some kind of ugly hack-job, or I can hire someone to do it for me.  I'm not confident in my ability to learn what I need to in order to do this.

Does anyone see any other options?  Or have any advice?  I really, really want to replace my stove, and I really don't want to replace it with another non-standard one.

I am now in this exact same scenario, and even 4+ years later there is only the same single 27 inch drop in stove available. Unfortunately, standard stoves are quite a bit taller and deeper, so I am not sure I can move to a 30 inch without a full remodel.

I realize this is really old, but @crumbcatcher what did you end up doing and how did it work out? Does anyone else have any advice?

Khaetra

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 08:45:05 AM »
I had one of those drop-in's and had to replace it (was cheaper to replace than repair).  I had to cut my cabinets to accommodate a 30" stove and what we did was to feel around the cabinets to see how much overhang of the counter they had (all cabinets do, usually, YMMV).  We cut them (the counters) as close to the cabinet as possible without cutting the cabinets themselves, then slid the new 30" in place.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2018, 08:48:40 AM »
I'd opt for #4 myself for now.  Depending on a lot of factors, it could be pretty easy to enlarge the drop-in hole.

Yeah, potentially this. We went from a 27" drop in to a 30" slide in. We just cut the cabinets. Luckily just have thin laminate on wood for the counter, so it was all easy to cut back. Not sure what you'd do with a harder surface I suppose. It was really not that difficult, to be honest! And we're fairly low skill DIY-ers =)

Linea_Norway

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 01:59:51 AM »
Another support for option number 4. Cut off your cabin and counter to make room for a standard size stove. Then go saving for a new (Ikea) kitchen to implement later and reuse the same stove.

Dicey

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Re: Kitchen angst
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2018, 08:04:19 AM »
I totally "see" the problem, because I've been trying to track down a used one, functioning or not, for over a year. (I'll explain in a second.)

My suggestions are to either 1. Repair it. I would probably spend the money on an electrician to install/check the wiring, but I'd save money by troubleshooting via YouTube, and if possible, ordering the part(s) in advance to make the electrician's job easier and less expensive for you.  2. Otherwise, buy a countertop two burner hot plate and keep/use it on top of your existing stove. They're cheap and will buy you time to plan your next move.

Explanation: Our local library has a kitchenette in the small staff break room. It had a drop-in stove that no longer worked. The county, in their infinity idiocy wisdom, removed the stove instead of trying to fix it and then just left the damn gaping hole! At least it functioned as counter and storage space. We're trying to find a cost-effective replacement, even if it doesn't work. We don't intend to connect it, just to fill the hole enough to regain much needed storage and counter space. Too bad we are so far away from Seattle.