Author Topic: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?  (Read 15399 times)

Syonyk

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I was able to acquire, for free, an iZip Ultra ebike with a totally shot battery pack (0.5-1.1v on ICR lithium cells - drained beyond the point of restoration).

I'm in the process of rebuilding the battery pack.  For the cost of an OEM pack ($600), I can:
- Acquire a battery spot welder (~$200)
- Acquire the needed nickel strapping to build a battery pack (~$cheap, but spending $70 to get enough from China that I'm likely to have some show up this year)
- Install brand new 3200mah batteries to replace the 2000mah batteries installed (15+AH vs 10AH) (~$300).

I'm happy to throw in photos and a build log if anyone is interested in such things.

Current status is, "I've verified the bike works with my other battery pack, and torn apart the existing pack.  Waiting on tools and parts." :)

Once I have it repaired and working, I'll either sell it for a profit (and cover my tool cost - the welder and strapping will last me a long while), or keep it around as a second ebike to ride (and for my wife to ride when we're going longer distances), and have a ~$2000 ebike for about $600, $300 of which went into the repair.  And a bunch of hours of my time.

Part 1: http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/05/izip-ultra-2011-battery-pack-teardown-1.html
Part 2: http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/05/izip-ultra-2011-battery-pack-rebuild-2.html
Part 3: http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/05/izip-ultra-pack-rebuild-33.html

A different pack rebuild (BionX 36v 9.6AH upgraded to 13.5AH): http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/08/rebuilding-bionx-36v-96ah-battery-pack.html
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 01:16:38 PM by Syonyk »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 09:29:32 PM »
What type of Lithium cells does it use? 18650? You can commonly get cells that come with solder tabs pre-welded, so you wouldn't even need the strapping or the spot welder.

Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing a build log.  Also, links to everything you're buying :)

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 01:47:03 PM »
What type of Lithium cells does it use? 18650? You can commonly get cells that come with solder tabs pre-welded, so you wouldn't even need the strapping or the spot welder.

It's a 10S5P pack built, originally, of ICR18650-20 cells (2000mah).  So, 50 cells total.

I'm aware about the pre-tabbed cells.  They're more limited in availability, and more expensive.  The welder is an investment in future pack generation, as I'm fairly interested in promoting ebikes long term and in other alternative energy/renewable energy use.  At some point here, I'll probably be building a solar-charged multi-KWH aux pack for my truck with cheap cells, so I can use an inverter while out camping (and also power assorted accessories cleanly).  And assorted other things.

I've also been told by a local ebike shop that they don't know anyone who does pack rebuilds.  So being a local pack rebuilder might be profitable in the future.  And, it's still cheaper (for "getting this free bike running" values of cheaper) than just buying a prebuilt OEM pack (with low capacity cells).

One issue I've been running into is that very few people seem to be doing this.  The Endless Sphere forum, while a decent resource for ebikes, is filled with people who have no money to spend on their hobby, so there are a lot of packs built with stripped laptop batteries (of widely varying capacity), welded with microwave oven transformer welders.  I'll pass, thanks... I can afford to do this *properly* - and if I want to consider doing it for profit, I should be doing it properly as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171570724654?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=470577266760&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT is the spot welder I have on order.  It's a dual pulse system, which apparently works a bit better than a single pulse system.  You can set the welding current, and it also (oddly enough) functions as a battery charger.

The batteries are these ICR18650-30s: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301545306604?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=600449630185&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  I have a few spares on order, because I intend to tear one down when I get it to ensure that it's what I ordered.  A disturbingly common issue with 18650s is used batteries pulled out of a pack, with a new pair of terminals tacked on, wrapped with new plastic, and quoting some absurd capacity (hint: A 5000mah battery isn't.  Nor is a 6000mah battery.  Especially for $3).  Fortunately here, Candlepower forum has some people who *seriously* geek out on batteries, so they get anything they can find on the market and put them through a full series of tests to determine what they can actually do.  The Samsung cells are legit, assuming they're real Samsung.  And I should have >50% more capacity with these over the stock ones, which will give me a "Don't worry about it" range of 25-30 miles, at least (depending on assist level, it could be a lot more - this bike is unusual in that it uses high pressure road-style tires instead of the more common mountain bike sizes that are higher drag). 

I have a wide selection of nickel strip on order, so hopefully I'll be able to make something work.  I'm either going to use a wide flat strip cut down to cover the X shaped cell layout, or use narrower strips in an "|X|" pattern.  No harm to spending a little more on nickel to ensure I can make rated amps... :)

I'll get some pictures here eventually.  I still haven't processed my "in process" photos.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 09:48:37 PM »
You've obviously thought this out already, but have you considered using hobby LiPo packs?  It sounds like your pack will have 15Ah.  Why not take three of these plus a three-fer, 10 minutes of soldering and call it a day?

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 11:19:35 PM »
You've obviously thought this out already, but have you considered using hobby LiPo packs?

It sounds like your pack will have 15Ah.  Why not take three of these plus a three-fer, 10 minutes of soldering and call it a day?

Not really.  I am building a 15AH pack, but I'm sticking with Samsung ICR 18650s.  Several reasons for this:
1. I'm rebuilding an existing pack with a proprietary BMS I can't get any information about (even the tech guy I talked to at iZip didn't have much information on them).  The BMS and the rest of the bike interface as well.  So the best option is to rebuild the pack with the same chemistry batteries, so I can reuse as much of the system as possible.  I'm not out to re-engineer the entire bike, just get it working again.  Upping the capacity of the cells (keeping the same ICR chemistry) won't affect the BMS any, just the charge time and range.
2. There's a good chance I will turn around and sell this bike.  Hobby LiPo packs are not suited to anything I might let anyone else use, IMO.
3. Learning to spot weld cylindrical cells is useful for building other types of packs, specifically my preferred LiFePO4 chemistry.
4. I like my dwelling place not-on-fire.

It mostly comes down to the fact that I'm not currently convinced that hobby lipo packs are particularly safe or reliable for use in ebikes.  I know they're used a lot, and most of the builds I see with them scare the sh*t out of me.  No BMS, high voltage bulk charging, massive numbers of packs crammed together so tightly that if one overheats the rest will follow, etc.  Almost always followed by a comment about how this is a really bad idea and you should never do this.  I'm also iffy about the cycle life on them - hobby packs tend to live short, hard lives, so I'm not sure there's much data about their longevity.

I'm sure you *can* build a perfectly good ebike power source out of them.  They're energy dense, and I'm sure you can get a perfectly good BMS and balance charging system going for them, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.  But, for rebuilding an existing 18650 pack, they're not a good choice.

I try to do things right, not cheaply.  On the "Powerful, cheap, good" scale, hobby packs seem to be shoved as hard into the "powerful, cheap" corner as you can get.  If they were so awesome, I'd expect ebike OEMs to be using them, and they don't (at least, not that I can find).  Though some may be using pouch lipo cells.

I'm open to discussion on this point, but hobby packs seem to be crammed firmly into the Endless Sphere mentality of "I want to go unsafely fast on a cheap bike as little money as possible, YOLO!"

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 02:16:38 PM »
Batteries and welder are here.

Now I'm just waiting on the nickel stripping...


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 08:36:14 AM »
What's the ETA on the nickel strips?

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 11:11:40 AM »
Sometime this week. At least for some of them.

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 08:01:26 PM »
Woo! Strips!

Playing around with the old cells, I've got some settings that work on the welder. Might be able to put the new pack together tomorrow!

Syonyk

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Re: Is anyone interested in a build log for an ebike battery pack repair?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 05:33:17 PM »
Status: My $200 welder from China just blew up.  Hopefully I can get a replacement, otherwise I'm out $200 and still need a welder to make this battery pack.

zolotiyeruki

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Status: My $200 welder from China just blew up.  Hopefully I can get a replacement, otherwise I'm out $200 and still need a welder to make this battery pack.
"Blew up" how?  Popped fuse?  Other failed component?

Syonyk

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Popped a fuse, when I replaced it, something let go internally with a rather loud bang.

If the seller won't replace it I'll tear the welder apart and see if I can fix it. It may have been a capacitor letting go.

Syonyk

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Hm.

I found my problem.

Also, a shot of the pack segment I got welded together before it blew up.

zolotiyeruki

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Well, the good news is that's a commodity part, so easy to source.  The datasheet for a BCM30A-12L specs it at 600V and 30A, so anything with equal or higher specs and the same physical characteristics will do.  This should do, or any of these.

Syonyk

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I've got a few more BCM30A-12L on order, so I should be able to replace it and see if that makes it function again.  I'm going to assume I just exceeded the duty cycle and blew it up that way, or that the part was weak to start with.  If it blows up again, I start re-engineering more...

I plan to use some thermal grease to help with the heat sink contact, and I'm considering cutting some holes in the front so the heatsink has better ventilation - it doesn't have any airflow right now, so once the heatsink gets hot, there's nowhere for the heath to go.

I also need to shrink wrap the main conductors, since they're not well protected from arcing to each other internally... :/

zolotiyeruki

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Is there *any* sort of fan inside the welder?

Syonyk

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A *fan*?  What is this, some kind of expensive US-produced welder with competent engineering?

No, there's just a transformer and a circuit board.  Not that a fan would do much good.

See the heatsink peeking out on the left, jammed right up against the front of the case where there's no airflow?  That's the heatsink for the triac I blew up. :/  Hence my consideration of cutting out a part of the front case to get it some airflow.  Even though that would be exposing 110v to finger-spaces on the front.

zolotiyeruki

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Holy cow, there's a lot wrong with the engineering on that thing.  Split screw holes?  Hot glue on screws?  No airflow for heat sinks?  And what kind of insulation is that on the outputs from the secondary windings!?

Syonyk

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Holy cow, there's a lot wrong with the engineering on that thing.  Split screw holes?  Hot glue on screws?  No airflow for heat sinks?  And what kind of insulation is that on the outputs from the secondary windings!?

It's a spiral plastic wrap.  Duh. :p  That would be the bit I was talking about using some shrink wrap on, FWIW... that scares me as well.  Especially given the fact that they've got strands sticking out.  On the plus side, a strand making contact wouldn't last for very long with a few hundred amps going through it... self fusing bridges? :)

This is what you get for $200 shipped.  I didn't expect anything else.  I'm going to do a better photo shoot of it and throw up a blog post about it.  I don't think it's fundamentally terrible, just... needs some work.  And by some, I mean, "A lot."  A small fan pushing air over the hot bits would help a lot, and some better insulation on the output wires would be nice.  I just don't understand why you'd put the triac facing the front panel. :/  Unless the goal is containment when it explodes, which, admittedly, worked fairly well.

I'm considering throwing a thermometer on the triac heatsink just to get an idea of how hot it's running.  And unless I can find some better documentation, I'm going to find a scope or data logger and see if I can figure out just how the various controls work.  The digital display controls welding current, but so does the knob, and nobody so far can tell me how the two things interact.  So, I guess, I get to reverse engineer it myself. :)

zolotiyeruki

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I have a simple, brilliant, suggestion:  mount the triac so it sticks out the back side of the board, perpendicular to the board.  Then the heatsink will be in free(er) air.  Just make sure it doesn't touch that exposed trace along the edge...

Syonyk

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I have a simple, brilliant, suggestion:  mount the triac so it sticks out the back side of the board, perpendicular to the board.  Then the heatsink will be in free(er) air.  Just make sure it doesn't touch that exposed trace along the edge...

*blinks*

I can't think of any reason that *wouldn't* work... I took a look at the spacing and it would definitely fit back there.

Thank you!  I think I'll do that and see if it helps.  If it blows up again, it'll still be contained in the case, which is a whole lot better than firing shrapnel out the front (which vents would allow).

zolotiyeruki

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Just make sure the pins are in the same holes as before :)

Syonyk

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Yeah... It'll face down instead of up.

Faraday

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Hey Synonyk: Any chance you might post this build thread on endless-sphere.com?

Syonyk

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Does it really belong at ES? I'm not building a 75mph ebike on a $200 mountain bike frame with reused laptop battery cells or hobby LiPo packs, welded together with a welder I built from a broken microwave...

I mean, I'm rebuilding the pack on a commercial 500W bike...

(I've spent some time on ES and it hasn't really impressed me, but I am going to write up a full blog post or two about the process and might link them then)

Faraday

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Does it really belong at ES? I'm not building a 75mph ebike on a $200 mountain bike frame with reused laptop battery cells or hobby LiPo packs, welded together with a welder I built from a broken microwave...

I mean, I'm rebuilding the pack on a commercial 500W bike...

(I've spent some time on ES and it hasn't really impressed me, but I am going to write up a full blog post or two about the process and might link them then)

I hear you, there is that element to E-S. No denying it.

But now you know at least one other from E-S who isn't doing the insane 10000 watt off-road electric kill-yourself machine. I converted a  hybrid bike and I use it to commute to work so I can try to kick my clown car habit without having to move. My motivations are totally mustachian, and because of that, RANGE + cruise speed is important to me. (I ride 65 miles round-trip to and from work.)

And BTW: I've had "some" success. I need to go back and fix things that used to be "good enough" but aren't reliable or robust enough for everyday use. I've had to skip some days riding the ebike just because I didn't charge it the night before and couldn't recharge it fast enough that morning.

Most of the guys I end up gabbing with on E-S are 50 and older guys who, whether they are mustachian or not, health may have forced them to stop working and now they live mustachian, whether they are ready to or not. One guy who's built a Greyborg is retiring in 8 months. He's an engineer and only commutes on his ebike, using it so he can idle his gas-hungry old Chevy Suburban.

Regardless, to answer your original question: YES, I'm INTERESTED!

GOOD JOB on the posting and your battery welding here on mmm forums. It might be more important to post here than on E-S, to show other mustachians that ebikes might provide an option for kicking the clown car habit.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 01:35:54 PM by mefla »

Syonyk

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There's an electric bike thread over in Continue the Blog Conversation.  http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/continue-the-blog-conversation/electric-bikes/

Apparently ebikes are not "hardcore" enough.  Muscle or nothing, it seems, is a common attitude around here.  Which is totally cool if you are fully retired and don't have to work, but "not having to show up to work 20+ minutes early so I can cool down enough to not be sweating for a morning meeting" gets old fast... :)

My current ebike is rather radically overbuilt for my commute simply because I got tired of things failing on my first one.  Working on a blag post about that as well...

I'll consider posting it to ES when I'm done (assuming I'm successful).  Right now, I'm still waiting on my triacs.  And then, I have to see if the welder just blew the triac or if there's something else that I damaged as well when it blew.

And then the "trying to re-engineer the welder so it doesn't blow up again" bit. :)

Plus the minor goal of actually having the rebuilt pack work successfully and drive the bike (and even charge).  So I'm a bit of a distance away from anything I'd call successful.  Right now, I'm in the middle of the project, everything has gone pear shaped, and I'm knee deep in Chinese build quality.  Pretty standard, really.

... and, interestingly, someone from work just pinged me about rebuilding a BionX pack.  Huh.  I wonder if pack rebuilding is really that rare.  Could be a nice side gig...

Faraday

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Apparently ebikes are not "hardcore" enough.  Muscle or nothing, it seems, is a common attitude around here.  Which is totally cool if you are fully retired and don't have to work, but "not having to show up to work 20+ minutes early so I can cool down enough to not be sweating for a morning meeting" gets old fast... :)

Been there, done that. An ebike is the only feasible option for me. However, once it's "right", I'll be able to get to work as fast as a car, for, like, 20 cents of electricity, no taxes, no insurance. (and BTW: I've already commuted a few dozen times on the bike, I killed a few cells in a battery because of my own stupidity, so I'm having to fix that stuff...)

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Plus the minor goal of actually having the rebuilt pack work successfully and drive the bike (and even charge).  So I'm a bit of a distance away from anything I'd call successful.  Right now, I'm in the middle of the project, everything has gone pear shaped, and I'm knee deep in Chinese build quality.  Pretty standard, really.

Very similar to where I'm at. There's a tremendous amount of "design hardening" that needs to go into an ebike that's not really there yet. Doesn't have to be extremely expensive, just needs to be durable, simple and reliable.

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... and, interestingly, someone from work just pinged me about rebuilding a BionX pack.  Huh.  I wonder if pack rebuilding is really that rare.  Could be a nice side gig...
After buying that welder? Oh heck yeah. I predict there's going to be a growing business rebuilding packs. I'm not giving up my ebike once the pack fails...I want a new pack and to keep on going....

Syonyk

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Been there, done that. An ebike is the only feasible option for me. However, once it's "right", I'll be able to get to work as fast as a car, for, like, 20 cents of electricity, no taxes, no insurance. (and BTW: I've already commuted a few dozen times on the bike, I killed a few cells in a battery because of my own stupidity, so I'm having to fix that stuff...)

Are you running a BMS?  One of their nice perks is shutting down the pack if a single cell (or, on most packs, collection of cells in parallel) drops below the critical voltage.  You can have a large pack that's still perfectly healthy looking in bulk voltage with a dead cell, be frying that cell, and not know about it.

Also, LiFePO4. ;)  Just saying.  Longer cycle life, a lot harder to damage, almost entirely flat discharge voltage.

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Very similar to where I'm at. There's a tremendous amount of "design hardening" that needs to go into an ebike that's not really there yet. Doesn't have to be extremely expensive, just needs to be durable, simple and reliable.

I entirely agree.  I may start my own line of them at some point doing just this - I don't care about expensive integration, I just want to produce something that works reliably for daily pounding.

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After buying that welder? Oh heck yeah. I predict there's going to be a growing business rebuilding packs. I'm not giving up my ebike once the pack fails...I want a new pack and to keep on going....

Yeah... I'll see.  I really don't want huge liability exposure, but I'm more than happy to rebuild packs if I can.

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Replying to let you know that I'll be following with interest. The analysis and re-engineering of the broken spot welder is at least as interesting as the battery pack rebuild.

I've read about battery packs off and on for a few years now, both for electric vehicle applications and for off-grid solar use. Haven't actually done anything more complicated than hook a single lead acid battery up to a single solar panel, but it's still fun to think about possibilities. Your explanation here is making me want to put a pack together just to play with, even though I don't have a specific use in mind right now.

Also, congruent interests are making me feel like some kind of Internet stalker. Syonyk, I read about both your house ventilation fan and battery pack rebuild on Ars first. Mefla, I was just reading about your resurrection of a 1st-gen Insight on InsightCentral earlier this afternoon. There are about 3 billion people on the Internet, how can it seem so small sometimes?



Syonyk

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Ooh.  Link to the Insight rebuild?

I... have no idea how how the internet seems so small sometimes.  But I can say that, despite working at a very large tech company in the Seattle area (not Microsoft!), I'm pretty much the "personal hardware guy" for a lot of the office.  I'm the one who ends up doing laptop fan replacements/power jack resoldering jobs/etc, and I seem to be the only person who is totally happy to dive into replacing phone screens & such.

College was the same - I never turned down a goofy hardware repair job, and despite being mediocre (at BEST) with a soldering iron, I only knew a few other people who did the same sort of stuff.  I made a lot of side income fixing computers, or was able to upgrade my computers for little to nothing with spare parts from other repairs.

Regarding the welder, yes, that's turned into quite the little side project in the middle of another project.  I intend to get a lot more good pictures of it and do a blog post detailing the failure and repair, if successful, and the failure and attempted repair, if not.  In any case, there's really not anything else out there documenting them other than a few pictures on Endless Sphere (and they're not very good pictures), so... I'll see how much interest there is.

I'm *working* on documenting my ebikes as well, since people have asked me for a lot of details on them.

And all this sort of stuff falls into the big reason I'm on this forum, which is that I have zero interest in working a day job (even if it's interesting) for the rest of my life. :)  Expect to see a lot more interesting stuff out of me in about... a year.  I'm not going to have enough to fully retire, but we're adjusting our lives dramatically to reduce our income requirements by a /lot/ and I'll have more time to play with interesting projects.

Current status is that I'm waiting for triacs.  They've shipped, but like everything else, it takes a while to get here from China.

Faraday

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Ooh.  Link to the Insight rebuild......

It's no surprise to me that there's increased chance of finding the same person on E-S and mmm DIY forums. I'm also on ecomodder and a couple DIY solar forums. I'm a frugal engineer with interest in EVs and renewable energy for frugal as well as technical reasons. Nothing makes me happier than to achieve actual payback with an electrical system of some kind. I'm hoping to find more of us here who have these things in common. I'd be tickled to have a whole bunch of mustachian friends interested in living efficiently!

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/68178-2000-mt-lazarus-attempting-resurrection.html

I also swapped out the catalytic converters (upstream and downstream) and added a charging port. Unfortunately, charging the car is more like a maintenance task, not actually useful energy. The charger I am building puts out  only 180 volts at 350mA, about 70 watts max. You trickle charge the pack every six months to keep it performing well.

Blessed is the reader who can ford the rushing rivers of my verbosity! :-) :-) :-)

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And all this sort of stuff falls into the big reason I'm on this forum, which is that I have zero interest in working a day job (even if it's interesting) for the rest of my life. :)  Expect to see a lot more interesting stuff out of me in about... a year.  I'm not going to have enough to fully retire, but we're adjusting our lives dramatically to reduce our income requirements by a /lot/ and I'll have more time to play with interesting projects.

Synonyk, you hit the nail on the absolute HEAD with that comment. I love my job and what I've done as a career, but it's just not as interesting to me as the projects I'd prefer to work on. I've struggled all my (working) life to get time to work on the things I WANT TO WORK ON. I try to do projects at night on weekdays and on weekends and using vacation time, when I'm able to. When I realized a few years ago I could FIRE simply by living frugally and investing, it gave me tremendous hope that I won't spend my entire life being a wage slave and not getting to do the things I'd rather do.

That little car, the Insight, that I swapped the battery in. I thought that car was doomed to the scrapyard, but after the work I've done and the (relatively small) investment I've made in it, I'm now contemplating the possibility of driving it much longer than the 1-2 years I'd planned on.

Maybe it's not mustachian to commute 60 miles a day in a clown car. Maybe I'm delaying my FI some by investing $3.3k in resurrecting the car and spending about $60/month on gasoline. But I've avoided having to buy something new or used to replace it. Driving a 15 year old hybrid that gets up to 70MPG is about as much badassity as any car's gonna have!

BTW: It's my intent to add a small hitch receiver to the Insight and put a hitch bicycle rack on it. Then I'll drive the car a few miles over the most dangerous part of the commute and use the electric bike to go the remaining 85% of the commute. I'll also be able to add one of those hitch cargo carrying things and carry stuff like push lawnmowers or camping gear.

Seems like it would be pretty badass to take multi-day road trips with the car where you stay at campgrounds rather than spend for hotels and maybe bring along a couple folding bikes to get around on! I think of things like being able to go to the beach for REALLY cheap (provided you can get a camping spot) and have a nice vacation while spending about $40/night on camping and bringing your own food for two for about $5-8 day (ok, you bring really nice food) rather than the insanity of what everyone else spends....
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:30:55 PM by mefla »

Syonyk

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Maybe it's not mustachian to commute 60 miles a day in a clown car. Maybe I'm delaying my FI some by investing $3.3k in resurrecting the car and spending about $60/month on gasoline. But I've avoided having to buy something new or used to replace it. Driving a 15 year old hybrid that gets up to 70MPG is about as much badassity as any car's gonna have!

It's hard to call a 60 mile daily round trip in an Insight a total clown car commute... The F150?  Yeah. :p  And you might be able to get the Insight up closer to 100mpg with a few tweaks.  Eliminate the side mirrors in favor of cameras/LCD screens, and do another few aero mods.  Stuff like that matters on a car that slippery to begin with, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if you could tell the fuel consumption difference with a nice wax job.

Quote
Seems like it would be pretty badass to take multi-day road trips with the car where you stay at campgrounds rather than spend for hotels and maybe bring along a couple folding bikes to get around on! I think of things like being able to go to the beach for REALLY cheap (provided you can get a camping spot) and have a nice vacation while spending about $40/night on camping and bringing your own food for two for about $5-8 day (ok, you bring really nice food) rather than the insanity of what everyone else spends....

Oof.  $40/day in camp site fees?  That's absurd... we're moving somewhere that has an awful lot of camping that consists of "Show up.  Find a spot."  But, yes, it's an improvement over the alternative. :)

Still waiting on my triacs. :/  I might spend some time tomorrow digging into my truck, though.  I've got a few things to work on under the hood.  It's about as far from your Insight as one can get... ;)

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zolotiyeruki

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Nice!  Have your triacs arrived yet?

If you're feeling really ambitious, you *could* reverse-engineer the BMS.  Can you tell me what, if any, writing is on the small chip in the middle with lots of pins? Everything else on the board is just peripheral to that IC.

You might also try looking up the numbers on the sticker on the BMS (I tried, but a wire is covering one of the characters, and I can't figure it out).  Lots of times one PCB design gets resold by many suppliers.

Thegoblinchief

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I barely understand any of what y'all are talking about yet still find it interesting :)

Syonyk

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Nice!  Have your triacs arrived yet?

Yeah.  They showed up Wednesday.  I haven't had time to try and install them - the joys of a newborn and the evening shift of taking care of her...

Hopefully this weekend.

Quote
If you're feeling really ambitious, you *could* reverse-engineer the BMS.  Can you tell me what, if any, writing is on the small chip in the middle with lots of pins? Everything else on the board is just peripheral to that IC.

You might also try looking up the numbers on the sticker on the BMS (I tried, but a wire is covering one of the characters, and I can't figure it out).  Lots of times one PCB design gets resold by many suppliers.

I'll get some better photos of it attached and see if anything useful comes out.

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;)

Now to finish the blog post about the repair...


zolotiyeruki

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Nice!  Congrats on the successful repair!

Syonyk

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Nice!  Congrats on the successful repair!

Thanks!  I've got about half the pack welded.  I went really slow, gave it plenty of time to cool, and everything went smoothly.  I even aired up the tires in the iZip and potted around the neighborhood on it.  That's... hm.  Well, I'll see how it is when the battery works, but the seat is dreadful ("Very Comfy!" style, which is horrible for actually riding), the brakes are atrocious, and the shifting is iffy.  All fixable, but still. :/

I hear you, there is that element to E-S. No denying it.

You know, I posted over there about my welder repair.

And within a few posts, this shows up.  I haven't finished a post explaining why I think that's a terrible idea yet, but it's in progress.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=69429#p1047622

I think my main complaint about ES is that not only do the vast majority of posters seem to lack the slightest knowledge of electricity or batteries, they lack any fear of such, and they seem to revel in their ignorance about such things.  Candlepower Forum, on the other hand, seems to attract all the battery geeks who literally do things like buy new cells and new "discount" cells to prove what they actually are, what their actual capacity (vs rated capacity) is, etc.

zolotiyeruki

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Are you planning on adding a fan for some forced cooling?

Syonyk

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Eventually. Right now, just taking it easy works.

Pop a few welds in place, do something else for a minute. Like, say, nice IPA.

Syonyk

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Woo Hoo!

Powered test ride successful!

Charging now, and will either glue the pack up tonight or tomorrow.

The thing scoots surprisingly quick for what I was expexting.

Still a bunch of work to do on the bike, and I need to work out lighting, but the rebuild appears, so far, to be a success!

zolotiyeruki

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Woo Hoo!

Powered test ride successful!

Charging now, and will either glue the pack up tonight or tomorrow.

The thing scoots surprisingly quick for what I was expexting.

Still a bunch of work to do on the bike, and I need to work out lighting, but the rebuild appears, so far, to be a success!
What other work are you doing to the bike?  I thought the battery pack was the only issue.

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General bike maintenance. It wasn't that well maintained and then sat for a long time.

Stuff like "The brakes howl when being used" - I'll see if a good long run down a hill fixes them or not, but I might need to swap out pads.  The tubes aren't slimed, and I like slime in the tubes on a commuter.  It needs lighting (though I'm not sure how to tap into pack voltage, so it might be standalone stuff after I finish analyzing it).
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 08:54:02 AM by Syonyk »

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Round trip to work and to grab beer successful!

Now to write up the blog posts related to it.

And then get it sold (unless my wife wants to keep it around for her use eventually). :)  It's not a replacement for my current commuter ebike, nor did I expect it to be.  It's a nice bike, but it's a serious step down from what I normally rock back and forth to work, which is a compact, aggressive little powerhouse lit from here to next week.

Thegoblinchief

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Sweet - glad the project appears to have been a success!

Syonyk

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Yup!  I'm still working on the series of blog posts that go with it.

http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/05/izip-ultra-2011-battery-pack-rebuild-2.html covers "Research on batteries/welders/etc," and then I've got part 3 mostly done, which is the actual pack rebuild.


zolotiyeruki

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How do you make sure you get genuine cells when buying from a wild west bazaar like ebay? You might also consider including links in your blog posts to the various places where you sourced your parts and equipment, so like-minded folks can follow in your footsteps.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 02:16:01 PM by zolotiyeruki »