Author Topic: Hiring help  (Read 3731 times)

akajoe87

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Hiring help
« on: May 23, 2015, 07:13:11 PM »
I build houses on my own property without being a licensed contractor and sell them. I can do most work on my own and few tasks take two people such as truss setting and wall standing. How do I legally go about hiring help? I have thought about a temp agency or hiring a part time person. Any ideas?

paddedhat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2015, 07:57:46 PM »
I did this for decades, and frequently hired everything from skilled carpenters to nearly clueless helpers, and paid them cash, by the day. That said, I got really lucky, since any issue involving this transaction, from paying cash, to not having legitimate workman's comp. insurance, can come back and bite you in varying degrees, from paying a small fine (in my case it was for a guy who filed unemployment against me) to total personal financial devastation in the event of a serious, or fatal accident, involving your day laborers. Sorry I do not have a better answer for you. My past experience is pretty much SOP for this area, and it can work very well, or be a disaster, depending on how it goes.

 One of the great reliefs of no longer being in your shoes is getting out from under the liability issues. As the years went by, in my region, less and less legitimate contractors had legitimately paid and insured help. It didn't matter if it was subs with help that was illegally classified as independent contractors, or subs that only had liability and no worker's comp. The vast majority of those on my jobs represented a huge risk to me personally, and a serious accident, or fatality, would of lead the ambulance chasers in search of the deepest pockets, which were without a doubt mine. Good luck.

PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 05:40:55 PM »
An interesting note in our area (I'm in Ontario) is that just over a couple of years ago it became the law that you have to ensure any contractor you hire has WSIB coverage.  Google Bill 119 for further info.

From the WSIB website:  http://needwsibcoverage.ca/

What's New:

As of January 1, 2013 new mandatory coverage rules came into effect; however, starting January 1, 2014, contractors who have not yet registered with the WSIB, and who do construction work without a valid clearance number will face fines of up to $100,000 upon conviction.  Those who hire contractors without confirming they have a valid clearance number also face serious fines and penalties.


paddedhat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 06:01:27 PM »
This is becoming more common, and for a good reason. A buddy of mine just paid a huge amount for back insurance coverage, and fines, when the state he relocated to audited his business. He paid, in full, and at the highest rates, any workman's comp. coverage that his subcontractors failed to pay, while doing work on his jobsites.  He was also fined for not prequalifying the subs. prior to contracting with them. I'm sure that, now that he is one the state's list of out of compliance builders, this won't be his last audit.

A few months back, my county's District Attorney also filed charges against a HOMEOWNER for a negligent death, after she hired an illegal to do a tree take-down. The guy was working for cash, with no contractor's license, or insurance, and ended up accidentally killing himself, when it all went wrong.

akajoe87

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 06:39:26 PM »
I think the question has been misinterpreted. I do not own a construction company. I just need a laborer to help me do something's around the house while I'm building it in my own property.

PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 07:20:48 PM »
I think the question has been misinterpreted. I do not own a construction company. I just need a laborer to help me do something's around the house while I'm building it in my own property.

No, I noticed you said that you build houses without being a licensed contractor, and that you are just looking for some as-needed help with the work.  However, what I was getting at with sharing the legislation here in Ontario, is that our government might not make the same distinctions as you do, if you were doing it here.  If, as suggested by Riccur, you could go through a local temp agency to hire a day labourer and that would take care of insurance/WSIB type coverage, that would be ideal. 

The legal liability is one thing, but stop also to think about the moral aspects.  I know someone in a position of authority at a non-profit in my area.  They have a long time volunteer who is accustomed to doing all kinds of work around the place, including climbing on ladders and such.  But he is now getting rather long in years, and management told him in no uncertain terms that he was not permitted to do that kind of work anymore.  He did it anyway, fell off a scaffold, broke both legs and pelvis, and was lucky not to require amputation.  He will need hospitalization followed by in-patient rehab followed (if lucky) by being able to go home with further treatment.  If unlucky he may never be able to return to his home, possibly not able to walk again, or even, worst case scenario (because this happens with older people with serious injuries) could die from other complications.  Blood clots, infections, etc.  My friend has mentally gone over the situation multiple times, trying to figure out if there was anything more that they should have done to ensure this didn't happen.

A few months back, my county's District Attorney also filed charges against a HOMEOWNER for a negligent death, after she hired an illegal to do a tree take-down. The guy was working for cash, with no contractor's license, or insurance, and ended up accidentally killing himself, when it all went wrong.

Like in paddedhat's story, if something catastrophic happens on your watch, with someone you hired to work for you ... well, it just doesn't bear thinking about.  Try to figure out a way that you can hire someone and still provide the accident/injury coverage required - for your own sake (legally) and for theirs.

akajoe87

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 07:24:31 PM »
I agree. I do want the person or persons working to have insurance. The temp agency idea sound like it would be ideal. Thanks for your help with this question.

phred

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Hiring help
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 07:45:44 AM »
You don't have to own a construction company to be personally liable.  Also, just because someone you hire is insured, the people he hires to help him may not be -- which will make you responsible.  Also, if you pay someone, but he doesn't pay his helpers, the helpers can file a lien on your property.  If your helper goes and gets materials for you, but doesn't pay the suppliers -- that's another lien