Author Topic: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls  (Read 12089 times)

couponvan

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Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« on: November 11, 2016, 12:06:55 PM »
It is officially slow season for me, and we are looking to "finally" refinish the basement of our FIRE house.

It was gutted last year due to a flood, but there are probably 500+ masonry nails still attached to the exterior walls of the basement. The person who finished the basement the first time nailed wood directly into the poured concrete walls versus building a framing wall.  We plan to use sealing paint on the concrete walls and floors before redoing the basement. 

However, before we waterproof the walls, we need to address the nails.  What is the best way to go about removing them? With the nails still in the wall there is no leaking that we can see.  However they are very unsafe sticking out from the wall, and make putting new insulation in problematic and seem to be a risk for leaking in the future.

Has anyone encountered this before?  I've done a search, but nothing seems to address this issue very well.  For rusting basement ties, they say to use hydraulic cement.  I've used this before with good results, but am unsure as to the best way to remove the nails. We haven't actually tried removing any of them....because we are afraid of doing it wrong.

1) Angle grinder? If so, which size. Then use hydraulic cement
2) Pull them out with a pry bar and use hydraulic cement in each hole?

Once the nails have been removed we plan to use sealing paint as extra insurance against water intrusion in the future. 

After that, we're debating the benefits of "insofast" panels vs. foam and framed walls.  The main advantages to the insofast being ease of installation, mold resistance, and the floorspace loss only being 2.5" vs 4.5" in a 1,000 sq. foot area.  All the walls we plan to put up are on the exterior of the house except one small section. (There is already a framed room that we are keeping the center portion of.)

The picture I attached is before the wood was taken off the wall - now the wood is gone, but there are still a bunch of nails sticking out.

With a few 4 day weekends coming up before a long 2 1/2 week time off in December, I'd like to tackle the prep work so we are ready to go when we have the long stretch of time to work on it.

Chris22

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 12:51:39 PM »
1) Angle grinder? If so, which size. Then use hydraulic cement
2) Pull them out with a pry bar and use hydraulic cement in each hole?

Highly doubt they go all the way through.  There's probably no need to fill the holes. 

My suggestion would be to start with 2) and then move to 1) for the ones you can't pop out.  Angle grinder size won't really matter, just get whatever's cheap at Harbor Freight.  500 nails you're going to go through a lot of cutting wheels.  Wear gloves and safety glasses for both approaches.

lthenderson

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 02:15:18 PM »
If you are planning on studding the wall anyway, my vote would be to do nothing but to use an angle grinder to remove any that might be in the way of a stud. They don't penetrate the wall and will never be a leak hazard. When you pull out nails, depending on the quality of the concrete, you can pull out large divots of concrete. I would also skip waterproofing the inside of the walls. Anything you apply on the interior of the wall is on the negative pressure side of the wall and thus won't stand up to hydraulic pressure of any water wanting to infiltrate your home. It will easily push a hole and continue to leak inside. A far better method for controlling moisture is to waterproof the exterior of the home on the positive pressure side and to take steps to shed water away from the walls.

paddedhat

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 02:24:53 PM »
#1 Pull as many as you can with a J-bar.
 #2  snap the remaining nails off flush with the surface.

 They are highly tempered and will snap easily, with the right technique.  Basically, you just strike the head of the nail, from the side, then hit it again from the opposite side, until the steel stresses and fatigues, then snaps. It's all highly dependant on the quality of the nails, but often it only takes 2-3 blows to snap them. This may leave a freaky looking little dagger of a sharp steel shard sticking out of the wall, so just bash that flat. As for hydro cement, don't bother. You do it to snap ties since the tie will actually allow water to wick through the wall. In your case, the nail shouldn't be more than an inch or so, deep in the wall, and have zero impact on the water tightness of the wall.

ncornilsen

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 02:27:55 PM »
I'd just get a sharp chisel and break them off flush, and waterproof on over them.

paddedhat

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 02:44:40 PM »
I'd just get a sharp chisel and break them off flush, and waterproof on over them.


 Sharp chisel and tempered steel cut nails.....................Three nails later, you have ruined chisel and 497 cut nails to go.

 As for waterproofing, there is absolutely no need.  A masonry nail is designed to penetrate less than an inch into concrete. Patching hundreds of shallow holes on the interior of a poured concrete wall is nothing but an exercise in wasted time and hydraulic cement.  Cracks, penetrations, snapped form ties, yes, they should absolutely be well sealed, small surface blemishes, nope.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 03:35:16 PM »
 
If you are planning on studding the wall anyway, my vote would be to do nothing but to use an angle grinder to remove any that might be in the way of a stud.

Our plan is to use "insofast" panels along the exterior vs. building a framing wall as it will only take up 2" of the exterior space, and we won't have to build any framing walls.  We'll reuse the existing interior walls since they are fine and the floor layout meets our needs. Because the panels go along the wall, I think all the nails need to be either flush or pulled.

Highly doubt they go all the way through.  There's probably no need to fill the holes. 

Glad to know they probably don't need to be filled, and since they won't show, pulling them and having some ugly holes won't matter. 

#1 Pull as many as you can with a J-bar.
 #2  snap the remaining nails off flush with the surface.

 They are highly tempered and will snap easily, with the right technique.  Basically, you just strike the head of the nail, from the side, then hit it again from the opposite side, until the steel stresses and fatigues, then snaps. It's all highly dependant on the quality of the nails, but often it only takes 2-3 blows to snap them. This may leave a freaky looking little dagger of a sharp steel shard sticking out of the wall, so just bash that flat. As for hydro cement, don't bother. You do it to snap ties since the tie will actually allow water to wick through the wall. In your case, the nail shouldn't be more than an inch or so, deep in the wall, and have zero impact on the water tightness of the wall.
This sounds much less daunting than what I thought it was going to be! I've done the "tape a square of plastic on the wall for a few weeks and see if there is any moisture".  That' part was fine.  There is some minor effervescence on the wall, but we think that's from the old crack that leaked, as when we taped over that area there was no moisture either.

Thank you paddedhat!  I'm going to be kicking myself if these all turn out pretty easy to remove and I've been avoiding it for over a year....At least in the avoidance of doing the basement we were able to pay off the house so it's mortgage free!

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 09:59:03 AM »
If you feel the need to fill/seal the holes or do find a leaking crack, I recommend PL S10 for walls and PL S20 (self leveling) for floor cracks.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 10:25:50 AM »
If you feel the need to fill/seal the holes or do find a leaking crack, I recommend PL S10 for walls and PL S20 (self leveling) for floor cracks.

Thank you. I will admit I had to Google search what the heck that was. For anyone else, it's a caulk looking tube of sealant, and I will be getting some just in case the DH thinks we need to fill the holes after we pull out the nails.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-PL-10-fl-oz-Polyurethane-Concrete-Crack-and-Masonry-Sealant-1618522/203156788

MasterStache

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 04:48:16 PM »
I had to do this earlier this year as well before refinishing our basement due to a flood. I just used a mini sledge and hit the nail on each side until they snapped off. They all broke off pretty quickly. I wasn't about to try pulling them out of the poured foundation walls.

paddedhat

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2016, 05:06:25 PM »
I had to do this earlier this year as well before refinishing our basement due to a flood. I just used a mini sledge and hit the nail on each side until they snapped off. They all broke off pretty quickly. I wasn't about to try pulling them out of the poured foundation walls.

In these parts it's called a "lump hammer" which is apparently a old English name for a  short sledge that's small enough to control with one hand. A carpenter who worked for me would always tell the younger guys that's called a lump hammer since it leaves one hell of a lump, when you accidentally hit your other hand with it.

NinetyFour

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2016, 06:10:52 PM »
I would totally help you with this project if I were retired already!!!

MasterStache

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 06:37:10 AM »
I had to do this earlier this year as well before refinishing our basement due to a flood. I just used a mini sledge and hit the nail on each side until they snapped off. They all broke off pretty quickly. I wasn't about to try pulling them out of the poured foundation walls.

In these parts it's called a "lump hammer" which is apparently a old English name for a  short sledge that's small enough to control with one hand. A carpenter who worked for me would always tell the younger guys that's called a lump hammer since it leaves one hell of a lump, when you accidentally hit your other hand with it.

Haha, I never heard that before. Luckily no lumps for me.

TomTX

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2016, 07:02:39 AM »
This sounds much less daunting than what I thought it was going to be! I've done the "tape a square of plastic on the wall for a few weeks and see if there is any moisture".  That' part was fine.  There is some minor effervescence on the wall, but we think that's from the old crack that leaked, as when we taped over that area there was no moisture either.

Efflorescence. It only effervesces if you put acid on the efflorescence ;)

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 08:58:30 PM »
This sounds much less daunting than what I thought it was going to be! I've done the "tape a square of plastic on the wall for a few weeks and see if there is any moisture".  That' part was fine.  There is some minor effervescence on the wall, but we think that's from the old crack that leaked, as when we taped over that area there was no moisture either.

Efflorescence. It only effervesces if you put acid on the efflorescence ;)

Learn something new every day....thank you for improving my vocabulary. :-)

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2016, 05:23:29 AM »
I had to do this earlier this year as well before refinishing our basement due to a flood. I just used a mini sledge and hit the nail on each side until they snapped off. They all broke off pretty quickly. I wasn't about to try pulling them out of the poured foundation walls.

In these parts it's called a "lump hammer" which is apparently a old English name for a  short sledge that's small enough to control with one hand. A carpenter who worked for me would always tell the younger guys that's called a lump hammer since it leaves one hell of a lump, when you accidentally hit your other hand with it.

I have one of these! I will try that too.

I would totally help you with this project if I were retired already!!!

Careful what you say...at the rate we are going it will probably be by the time you retire that we will be doing this project. :-)  Because we don't actually need/use this space very often we ignore it for large patches of time.  Although we are planning on turning it in to our guest suite, so you may want to help to enjoy it in the future FIRE travels. It will be about 850 square feet finished, and we are hoping to put in an efficiency kitchen with a microwave, induction cooktop and mini fridge. 

NinetyFour

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 05:39:56 AM »
I would totally help you with this project if I were retired already!!!

Careful what you say...at the rate we are going it will probably be by the time you retire that we will be doing this project. :-)  Because we don't actually need/use this space very often we ignore it for large patches of time.  Although we are planning on turning it in to our guest suite, so you may want to help to enjoy it in the future FIRE travels. It will be about 850 square feet finished, and we are hoping to put in an efficiency kitchen with a microwave, induction cooktop and mini fridge. 

Sounds perfect!!  That's almost 3 times bigger than where I live right now!  There will even be room for MJ as well!

Seriously, I can help next summer if you want help.  I have no particular skills, but can whack nails with bump hammers all day long!

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2016, 06:38:09 AM »
I would totally help you with this project if I were retired already!!!

Careful what you say...at the rate we are going it will probably be by the time you retire that we will be doing this project. :-)  Because we don't actually need/use this space very often we ignore it for large patches of time.  Although we are planning on turning it in to our guest suite, so you may want to help to enjoy it in the future FIRE travels. It will be about 850 square feet finished, and we are hoping to put in an efficiency kitchen with a microwave, induction cooktop and mini fridge. 

Sounds perfect!!  That's almost 3 times bigger than where I live right now!  There will even be room for MJ as well!

Seriously, I can help next summer if you want help.  I have no particular skills, but can whack nails with bump hammers all day long!
You and MJ will have to fight over who is on the pull out and who has the king sized bed....I really hope we have it finished by next Summer.  We plan to go this weekend with our angle grinder, mini sledge hammer, large pry bar, and a couple cans of the Loctite PL10. I hope it is fast and easy...and motivates us to keep moving forward.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2016, 01:13:56 PM »
Typing this out on my phone, but I want to say....100% of the nails came off perfectly at the cement line using just a 3 pound mini sledge hammer and rotating the person pounding. Hit on opposite sides until it snapped off-usually just 2-3 swings, sometimes only 1.

No angle grinder or pry bar needed.

I am embarrassed that we have takers 1 1/2 years to do this project that we thought would be sooooo hard and take forever.

Eye protection was super necessary.....those nails can fly 1/2 way across the space when they pop off!

Paddedhat, you are welcome put at our FIRE house any time.

I now get to return $250 worth of tools we didn't actually use that we bought "just in case", and that is a great feeling.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2016, 03:35:36 PM »
Here are pics of our bare nail-free walls!

Edited to make pics show correctly-I hope
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 03:44:42 PM by couponvan »

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2016, 12:56:44 PM »
Nice work!

MasterStache

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2016, 05:29:41 AM »
Typing this out on my phone, but I want to say....100% of the nails came off perfectly at the cement line using just a 3 pound mini sledge hammer and rotating the person pounding. Hit on opposite sides until it snapped off-usually just 2-3 swings, sometimes only 1.

No angle grinder or pry bar needed.

I am embarrassed that we have takers 1 1/2 years to do this project that we thought would be sooooo hard and take forever.

Eye protection was super necessary.....those nails can fly 1/2 way across the space when they pop off!

Paddedhat, you are welcome put at our FIRE house any time.

I now get to return $250 worth of tools we didn't actually use that we bought "just in case", and that is a great feeling.

Good work. Yes eye protection is a must. When I did it I got hit in the forehead a couple times. That doesn't feel good either.

What are you doing for insulation? I glued up sheets of 2" rigid foam. We lost some space doing it this way but our basement is super insulated.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2016, 06:32:00 AM »
Typing this out on my phone, but I want to say....100% of the nails came off perfectly at the cement line using just a 3 pound mini sledge hammer and rotating the person pounding. Hit on opposite sides until it snapped off-usually just 2-3 swings, sometimes only 1.

No angle grinder or pry bar needed.

I am embarrassed that we have takers 1 1/2 years to do this project that we thought would be sooooo hard and take forever.

Eye protection was super necessary.....those nails can fly 1/2 way across the space when they pop off!

Paddedhat, you are welcome put at our FIRE house any time.

I now get to return $250 worth of tools we didn't actually use that we bought "just in case", and that is a great feeling.

Good work. Yes eye protection is a must. When I did it I got hit in the forehead a couple times. That doesn't feel good either.

What are you doing for insulation? I glued up sheets of 2" rigid foam. We lost some space doing it this way but our basement is super insulated.

We are debating between the 2" rigid foam/framing walls and the "Insofast" product that combines a 2" rigid foam product and electrical chases/framing in the system. I think our odds of doing it DIY are better if we do the Insofast. I will probably have to make another DIY thread for that project. We have a week off after Christmas, but still have some cleaning up to do in the basement to prep it for walls. hopefully we get out there one weekend to do the cleaning before the Christmas vacation.

MasterStache

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2016, 06:44:41 AM »
Typing this out on my phone, but I want to say....100% of the nails came off perfectly at the cement line using just a 3 pound mini sledge hammer and rotating the person pounding. Hit on opposite sides until it snapped off-usually just 2-3 swings, sometimes only 1.

No angle grinder or pry bar needed.

I am embarrassed that we have takers 1 1/2 years to do this project that we thought would be sooooo hard and take forever.

Eye protection was super necessary.....those nails can fly 1/2 way across the space when they pop off!

Paddedhat, you are welcome put at our FIRE house any time.

I now get to return $250 worth of tools we didn't actually use that we bought "just in case", and that is a great feeling.

Good work. Yes eye protection is a must. When I did it I got hit in the forehead a couple times. That doesn't feel good either.

What are you doing for insulation? I glued up sheets of 2" rigid foam. We lost some space doing it this way but our basement is super insulated.

We are debating between the 2" rigid foam/framing walls and the "Insofast" product that combines a 2" rigid foam product and electrical chases/framing in the system. I think our odds of doing it DIY are better if we do the Insofast. I will probably have to make another DIY thread for that project. We have a week off after Christmas, but still have some cleaning up to do in the basement to prep it for walls. hopefully we get out there one weekend to do the cleaning before the Christmas vacation.

Not familiar with the Insofast system. Is it more expensive? I was lucky in that I found someone trying to get rid of a bunch of leftover 2" rigid foam on Craigslist. They had quite a bit of intact pieces and many various leftover large pieces. All together I calculated I paid about $10/4x8 sheet. I was very happy with that.

couponvan

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Re: Help - Nail Removal in Basement Poured Concrete Walls
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 07:00:46 AM »
Typing this out on my phone, but I want to say....100% of the nails came off perfectly at the cement line using just a 3 pound mini sledge hammer and rotating the person pounding. Hit on opposite sides until it snapped off-usually just 2-3 swings, sometimes only 1.

No angle grinder or pry bar needed.

I am embarrassed that we have takers 1 1/2 years to do this project that we thought would be sooooo hard and take forever.

Eye protection was super necessary.....those nails can fly 1/2 way across the space when they pop off!

Paddedhat, you are welcome put at our FIRE house any time.

I now get to return $250 worth of tools we didn't actually use that we bought "just in case", and that is a great feeling.

Good work. Yes eye protection is a must. When I did it I got hit in the forehead a couple times. That doesn't feel good either.

What are you doing for insulation? I glued up sheets of 2" rigid foam. We lost some space doing it this way but our basement is super insulated.

We are debating between the 2" rigid foam/framing walls and the "Insofast" product that combines a 2" rigid foam product and electrical chases/framing in the system. I think our odds of doing it DIY are better if we do the Insofast. I will probably have to make another DIY thread for that project. We have a week off after Christmas, but still have some cleaning up to do in the basement to prep it for walls. hopefully we get out there one weekend to do the cleaning before the Christmas vacation.

Not familiar with the Insofast system. Is it more expensive? I was lucky in that I found someone trying to get rid of a bunch of leftover 2" rigid foam on Craigslist. They had quite a bit of intact pieces and many various leftover large pieces. All together I calculated I paid about $10/4x8 sheet. I was very happy with that.

It is a little more expensive, but when you factor in the cost of framing/labor it seems like it would be comparable. Nice score on the leftover foam! Getting it to our location would be a challenge if I was bringing it myself. Door delivery is a distinct advantage for us....

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!