Author Topic: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)  (Read 1138 times)

Mgmny

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Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« on: February 25, 2020, 01:18:37 PM »
Hello!

I just traded my clown car for a 2010 Honda Fit - the mustachian vehicle of choice!

Unfortunately, I was only given 1 key. Apparently, modern vehicle keys have "immobilizer" chips in them that stop the car from turning on unless the key (and chip) are placed near the ignition. To duplicate this chip, you need to pay a dealer $$$ (Maybe $100) to program the key to your car (note: this is different than just the door lock/unlock buttons, which can be used by anyone with access to YouTube).

Anyways: Some people online say that I can get 2 dummy keys from eBay ($20 a pop), key them (<$10 a pop), and then cut off (or not) the metal blade on the original, and then tape it under my steering wheel so it's ALWAYS close to the ignition. Then, when i need to put a key in, it's "fooled" into thinking that the key is the original (metal cuts and RFID chip match).

Has anyone done this successfully?

I can't "test" this approach until I buy a key from ebay and cut it, so i'd prefer to hear real life stories.

After much googling, it doesn't seem like MANY people are doing this out there, and one forum I found said there was concern that the car would think that the key is ALWAYS in the ignition, so when you turn the car off and open the door, it may constantly ding at you or cause panic alarm to go off (not sure how this would be the case, but it was cited). I could tape the key in the right position and test walking away simple enough, but if there are other implications that i might now immediately see (like someone being able to just walk by and unlock my car because my car thinks the keys are inside, for instance), that would be nice to know too.


Thanks!

BDWW

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 01:44:46 PM »
The car shouldn't* think the key is in the ignition, so no need to worry about it just letting people in and taking your car, other then the obviously lower security of being able to use any key/pick/brute force attack.

You can use the unchipped keys on the doors no problem.  Generally (IFAIK) the chip only affects starting. On the vehicles I've seen a duplicate would even turn the stereo on, just not start the car.

The biggest issue I've seen is how precisely you would have to position the donor chip. I tried just taping a key under the column, and it didn't actually work. I assume you have to be pretty close to the cylinder.


*All these being with the caveat that each car is different, and maybe the 2010 Fit is different than every other car I've seen with this scenario.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 01:52:11 PM »
The car shouldn't* think the key is in the ignition, so no need to worry about it just letting people in and taking your car, other then the obviously lower security of being able to use any key/pick/brute force attack.

You can use the unchipped keys on the doors no problem.  Generally (IFAIK) the chip only affects starting. On the vehicles I've seen a duplicate would even turn the stereo on, just not start the car.

The biggest issue I've seen is how precisely you would have to position the donor chip. I tried just taping a key under the column, and it didn't actually work. I assume you have to be pretty close to the cylinder.


*All these being with the caveat that each car is different, and maybe the 2010 Fit is different than every other car I've seen with this scenario.

Really!? I didn't realize distance would be that big of a deal - especially with these new cars where i can put the key fob in the trunk and the car still turns on...

Also, yes it is a bit of a safety issue, but honestly, I've NEVER had someone try to steal my car before, and I only know one person who's car was stolen (my dad), and they broke into his house to steal his keys, so... not super concerned someone is going to hotwire my car because i left the transponder attached to the column...

That said, I ideally attach the key out of sight - so under the steering column, or if i can get away with it being further away (in a glovebox, for instance, though this seems unlikely based on your response), then that'd be great.

Hmm.. i'm not sure if it's worth paying $30 for the experiment if i have to turn around and spend $100 if it doesn't work anyways... shoot.

HipGnosis

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 02:11:19 PM »
How would (could) this make you rich?
$30 is a very small price to find out if your idea would work to make lots more money.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 02:21:15 PM »
How would (could) this make you rich?
$30 is a very small price to find out if your idea would work to make lots more money.

Ha, it's not going to get me rich at all. It's just going to save me $70 perhaps. The title is just a joke on MMM's posts about "Get rich with bicycling" or "Get rich with a positive mental attitude" etc.

BDWW

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 02:49:27 PM »

Really!? I didn't realize distance would be that big of a deal - especially with these new cars where i can put the key fob in the trunk and the car still turns on...


Keyless Fobs are quite a bit different, they actively broadcast signals.  All the ones I tried it on were older vehicles, and the chip is just a passive RFID.  From my off the top of my head understanding, the car broadcasts a signal, the chip manipulates and reflects the signal in such a way to be identifiable. Very low power and close range.

FYI, the vehicle I tried taping the key on was a 2002(01 maybe) Ford Ranger. Tried the tape thing didn't work, I could hold the good key right next to the dupe, and it would work, but it wouldn't work from any real distance.

Sibley

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 08:10:15 PM »
To me, this is pretty silly. Sometimes, you just spend a bit of money to do something that needs to be done and you move on. I presume you'll be saving money because of the new vehicle, so ongoing gas and other savings will also recoup the cost of a new key. And if you have this car for more than a year, then you're into <$10 a month territory anyway.

Just go get a 2nd key made properly. Making your life more complicated to save $70 isn't a good trade off.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 04:01:02 AM »

Really!? I didn't realize distance would be that big of a deal - especially with these new cars where i can put the key fob in the trunk and the car still turns on...


Keyless Fobs are quite a bit different, they actively broadcast signals.  All the ones I tried it on were older vehicles, and the chip is just a passive RFID.  From my off the top of my head understanding, the car broadcasts a signal, the chip manipulates and reflects the signal in such a way to be identifiable. Very low power and close range.

FYI, the vehicle I tried taping the key on was a 2002(01 maybe) Ford Ranger. Tried the tape thing didn't work, I could hold the good key right next to the dupe, and it would work, but it wouldn't work from any real distance.

Interesting, I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

What would happen if while driving, the taped/glued key fell off? Would the car turn off? Or does it only need the chip at startup?

If it turns the car off because my knee bumped it, and I'm going 70mph down the highway this is not worth the risk even if it did work.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 04:02:18 AM »
To me, this is pretty silly. Sometimes, you just spend a bit of money to do something that needs to be done and you move on. I presume you'll be saving money because of the new vehicle, so ongoing gas and other savings will also recoup the cost of a new key. And if you have this car for more than a year, then you're into <$10 a month territory anyway.

Just go get a 2nd key made properly. Making your life more complicated to save $70 isn't a good trade off.

You're probably right. It sounds like distance might be an issue anyways. I'll call around to local Honda dealerships to see what the price really is.

Thanks for the advice!

bigblock440

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 06:32:47 AM »
$20 for a key seems excessive, try a hardware store, I've had car keys made at Lowes and HD before for something like $2.  One of the guys running the machine told me since they rarely do automotive keys, their dies are in great shape and the keys are a perfect match, unlike lock keys that could be inaccurate enough that they need to try again.  It'd be worth it to me to try for $2.

lthenderson

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2020, 07:04:31 AM »
Personally, I would pay to get a programmed key than dealing with the hassle of taping a key fob somewhere where it works. Not sure if you would be able to lock your car after that since it would think the key is in the ignition.

Don't just check dealership pricing. I've seen Walmarts and local locksmiths that advertise they can program all makes and models of car keys.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2020, 09:01:52 AM »
$20 for a key seems excessive, try a hardware store, I've had car keys made at Lowes and HD before for something like $2.  One of the guys running the machine told me since they rarely do automotive keys, their dies are in great shape and the keys are a perfect match, unlike lock keys that could be inaccurate enough that they need to try again.  It'd be worth it to me to try for $2.

The problem isn't the metal - it's that keys have this little RFID chips in them that when not present, the car won't start. It's called an immobilizer.

bigblock440

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2020, 02:22:15 PM »
$20 for a key seems excessive, try a hardware store, I've had car keys made at Lowes and HD before for something like $2.  One of the guys running the machine told me since they rarely do automotive keys, their dies are in great shape and the keys are a perfect match, unlike lock keys that could be inaccurate enough that they need to try again.  It'd be worth it to me to try for $2.

The problem isn't the metal - it's that keys have this little RFID chips in them that when not present, the car won't start. It's called an immobilizer.

Right, they're usually significantly more than $20, and the problem the OP was trying to solve by leaving the RFID key in the car and using a cut blank as their regular key.

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2020, 07:13:00 AM »
$20 for a key seems excessive, try a hardware store, I've had car keys made at Lowes and HD before for something like $2.  One of the guys running the machine told me since they rarely do automotive keys, their dies are in great shape and the keys are a perfect match, unlike lock keys that could be inaccurate enough that they need to try again.  It'd be worth it to me to try for $2.

The problem isn't the metal - it's that keys have this little RFID chips in them that when not present, the car won't start. It's called an immobilizer.

Right, they're usually significantly more than $20, and the problem the OP was trying to solve by leaving the RFID key in the car and using a cut blank as their regular key.

Lol, I am OP. So you are saying just try to tape the key underneath, get a cheap metal key for $2, see if it works, and if it does, then get the $20 version with the door lock/unlock functionality? That's a good idea! Thank you!

dcheesi

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2020, 08:23:03 AM »
I wonder what your insurance provider would think if they found out that you had deliberately compromised a built-in anti-theft feature?

Mgmny

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2020, 11:25:45 AM »
I wonder what your insurance provider would think if they found out that you had deliberately compromised a built-in anti-theft feature?

Snitches get stitches.

bigblock440

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Re: Get rich with... hot glue? (Car Key Duplication)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2020, 07:57:27 AM »
$20 for a key seems excessive, try a hardware store, I've had car keys made at Lowes and HD before for something like $2.  One of the guys running the machine told me since they rarely do automotive keys, their dies are in great shape and the keys are a perfect match, unlike lock keys that could be inaccurate enough that they need to try again.  It'd be worth it to me to try for $2.

The problem isn't the metal - it's that keys have this little RFID chips in them that when not present, the car won't start. It's called an immobilizer.

Right, they're usually significantly more than $20, and the problem the OP was trying to solve by leaving the RFID key in the car and using a cut blank as their regular key.

Lol, I am OP. So you are saying just try to tape the key underneath, get a cheap metal key for $2, see if it works, and if it does, then get the $20 version with the door lock/unlock functionality? That's a good idea! Thank you!

Oops.  I guess I misunderstood why the key was $20.  I think you'd still need to program the remote, and (at least on my vehicles) you need two remotes to do the programming yourself.  I guess I'm weird that I just use the metal key all the time and never used the remotes.  But yes, if you want to just see if it works, a $2 key is a cheap way to do that.  And it's not necessarily wasted, I've had friends that carried the metal key in their wallet or attached somewhere outside their vehicle in the event they locked their keys in the car, they wouldn't be stuck.