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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Do it Yourself Discussion! => Topic started by: MMMdude on January 26, 2013, 01:56:03 PM

Title: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: MMMdude on January 26, 2013, 01:56:03 PM
My home was built in the 80's and much of it is still from that era.  The kitchen has that 'golden oak' look that was popular back in the day.  What I'd like to do is paint the cabinetry white.   Has anyone done this, and how did it turn out?  The trim and pantry door in my home have the same color.  My concern is that the new white cabinets won't match the trim and I really don't want to paint/replace all the trim in my home.  Has anyone gone through that?

Also would like to update the countertop.  Don't want to go crazy with granite, but what is a an alternative.  Something that will of course last, be easy to clean and look good?

Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on January 26, 2013, 02:28:00 PM
Do you know this site http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/

They have a ton of posts on painted cabinets and lots of budget kitchen renovation posts.

I've been looking around and found this place, they seem to have decently priced simple pieces that you could paint. http://www.barkerdoor.com/mdf-cabinet-doors-s/6.htm

My apartment was renovated in the 80s with melamine cabinets, a plastic jacuzzi tub and other Period wonders. I'm slowly fixing and replacing stuff as it's all at the end of its life. I did some research and can find the exact same bathroom sink (which I actually quite like and would keep if it wasn't chipped and cracked to hell) for $40 NEW! Which gives you some idea of the quality.

ETA, I also found this http://www.cabinetparts.com/c/countertop-laminate-products-laminate-sheets-for-countertops during my searches, it looks like it could be an easy, cheap update, but I haven't done any research about durability.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: kendallf on January 26, 2013, 09:15:03 PM
I like that Barker cabinet door page; thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: grantmeaname on January 27, 2013, 08:06:31 AM
My home was built in the 80's and much of it is still from that era.  The kitchen has that 'golden oak' look that was popular back in the day.  What I'd like to do is paint the cabinetry white.   Has anyone done this, and how did it turn out?  The trim and pantry door in my home have the same color.  My concern is that the new white cabinets won't match the trim and I really don't want to paint/replace all the trim in my home.  Has anyone gone through that?

Also would like to update the countertop.  Don't want to go crazy with granite, but what is a an alternative.  Something that will of course last, be easy to clean and look good?

Check out a used building materials store, like a Habitat for Humanity ReStore. The prices are insanely good... even granite might be in your price range, and cheaper than Corian would be new.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Midwest on January 27, 2013, 09:30:25 AM
My home was built in the 80's and much of it is still from that era.  The kitchen has that 'golden oak' look that was popular back in the day.  What I'd like to do is paint the cabinetry white.   Has anyone done this, and how did it turn out?  The trim and pantry door in my home have the same color.  My concern is that the new white cabinets won't match the trim and I really don't want to paint/replace all the trim in my home.  Has anyone gone through that?

Also would like to update the countertop.  Don't want to go crazy with granite, but what is a an alternative.  Something that will of course last, be easy to clean and look good?

We used one of the rustoleum cabinet refacing kits and put in granite look formica.  Counter was $500 or $600 with the sink pre-cut.  I added cabinets, put in a new sink and dishwasher.  Total cost was under $1500.

We have 2 kids and the cabinets look good after 1 year.  They have a white kit.  With our without the kit, I would consider using polyurethane over the finish.

The rustoleum product uses a brush on polyurethane coat.  If you use poly, spray the doors instead of using their brush on product.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: darkelenchus on January 27, 2013, 10:08:55 AM
What I'd like to do is paint the cabinetry white.   Has anyone done this, and how did it turn out?

I've owned and/or renovated three homes, and have painted cabinets in each. It always improved the look.

A word of advice: make sure to sand and prime the cabinets before you paint. Also, since you're dealing with kitchen cabinets, you'll want an easily wipeable surface, so the higher gloss, the better. I wouldn't go any lower than eggshell.

Quote
The trim and pantry door in my home have the same color.  My concern is that the new white cabinets won't match the trim and I really don't want to paint/replace all the trim in my home.  Has anyone gone through that?

There are many shades of white. If you go to the hardware store, they'll have paint swatches that you'll be able to take home so that you can match the paint with the color of the trim. If you don't find a shade of white that you like, try a different color.

Another option would be to refinish the cabinets with a product from Rustoleum called Cabinet Transformations (http://cabinets.rustoleumtransformations.com/)

Quote
Also would like to update the countertop.  Don't want to go crazy with granite, but what is a an alternative.  Something that will of course last, be easy to clean and look good?

My wife and I are planning on updating our countertop with Countertop Transformation (http://countertops.rustoleumtransformations.com/). Costs about $200, covers 50 sq. ft., and looks really nice.

Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: meadow lark on January 27, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
Laminate countertops are great, depending on your price point.  I may go for granite before we sell, but we have a pretty small kitchen so it shouldn't be to bad.  I think the smaller the kitchen the more important the nicer finishes are.  And the less expensive, too.  40 sq ft of granite is not that bad.

Also, one free- ish update:  if you have a scalloped wood board as trim connecting the cabinets on each side of the sink, remove it.  You can either leave it off, or re-cut it in an arc and replace it, which is much more modern and not dated looking like the scalloped edge.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: GoStumpy on January 27, 2013, 07:57:46 PM
We JUST finished painting our wood cabinets & flooring... before we had white peel & stick flooring with wood cabinets, now we have wood flooring with white cabinets :)  LOVE IT!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/DasCoupe/IMG_0762_zps8da6abaa.jpg)

Hardest part is sanding & priming both sides of each door.. can only paint one side until it's completely dry, flip, paint, flip, paint, flip....etc...

I hope I never do it again :)
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Togoshiman on January 28, 2013, 07:58:35 AM
I did this, and all the above advice is spot on.  Basically took everything down, sanded down to wood, primed several thin coats, painted high gloss white several thin coats, put 'em back up.  All baseboard trim had to be covered with new trim (could replace, I covered).  Each cabinet box had to have the edging taken off and re-edged (can be a pain to make it look good).  All melamine bits of trim had to be replaced with white bits.  It took a year of weekends and holidays picking away at it.  Was not expensive, but very time-consuming to do it right.

For counters, our next step, we are considering these folks:  http://www.granitetransformations.ca/

TL;DR: yep, sand, prime and paint.  But all the trim and small things will take 5x as long as you think.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: GoStumpy on January 28, 2013, 08:12:06 AM
Agree with the year, I started my kitchen reno last MARCH, and I still have to do baseboards/corner trim/kickpanels :(
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: gotaholen1 on January 31, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
FYI Barker Door is fantastic.  We ordered about 2K worth of doors from them late last year and the quality is incredible.  Shipping was free as we spent over $1500
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on January 31, 2013, 12:03:03 PM
Laminate countertops are great, depending on your price point.  I may go for granite before we sell, but we have a pretty small kitchen so it shouldn't be to bad.  I think the smaller the kitchen the more important the nicer finishes are.  And the less expensive, too.  40 sq ft of granite is not that bad.


I second this.  My parents' house was built in 1964.  They still have the original laminate counters and they still look great.

When we just built, we went with laminate.  The cost difference vs everything else we looked at was staggering.  There are even some laminates with a bit of surface texture in them that give a bit of a higher $ look without much actual higher $.

The only place we put granite was in a small bath -- and there we bought a remnant from a granite yard.  This one in particular sells all their remnants at a fixed price, regardless of size or rarity of the rock.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on January 31, 2013, 12:29:13 PM
We are in the midst of renovating two kitchens.  We bought a set of oak cabinets used for $200.  We are having them painted and have already mounted the backs and removed the doors.  The process is clean, sand, prime, paint.

I am putting some freestanding antique furniture in the kitchen as well which was also bought online used. We are painting it to match the kitchen (white mostly with some turquoise and yellow).  Great storage and nice look and very reasonably priced (three pieces for $400 total).  One of the pieces is a buffet that will have counter added on top to be an island, another is old cupboards with doors and the third is a hutch cabinet combo.

For countertops we have not yet decided but it will likely be nice-looking laminate or perhaps butcher block ikea countertops.

My tip is scan your used online listings for high-end stuff like faucets/sinks and appliances for cheap.  Go to ebay for pulls.  For flooring we are still not decided in one unit but have used high end laminate in two other kitchens (from Costco).  Invest in excellent small details like lighting and plate racks.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on January 31, 2013, 12:47:10 PM


My tip is scan your used online listings for high-end stuff like faucets/sinks and appliances for cheap.  Go to ebay for pulls.  For flooring we are still not decided in one unit but have used high end laminate in two other kitchens (from Costco).  Invest in excellent small details like lighting and plate racks.

From my personal experience (your mileage may vary) I wouldn't use laminate in "wet areas" like kitchens.  If, perchance, it is the old-school laminate with wood chip core and glue-up edges, you might be okay.  If it is the new-school type of laminate with paper cores and snap-together edges, then slight water will cause the edges to cup.

and I do mean "slight water".  My water damage came from a dog with doggie-dementia that lost his ability to understand "go outside."
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: stevedoug on January 31, 2013, 01:20:57 PM
  For flooring we are still not decided in one unit but have used high end laminate in two other kitchens (from Costco).

I'm curious about this costco flooring.
I'm redoing my condo kitchen and want to go inexpensive, but maintain a somewhat high quality look. I was considering vinyl roll flooring (some stone pattern or something).

how does the costco flooring process work?
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on January 31, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
We used autumn oak golden select laminate and are very happy with it so far.  Looks expensive but was very affordable, 30 year warranty and has held up under spills.  Our room actually looks very similar to the brochure room with fireplace, windows in same spots and bamboo blinds on the small windows.  It is a nice look: 

https://www.goldenselect.ca/en/laminate/autumn-oak/

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/golden-select-laminate-flooring-costco-any-experiences-762805/
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on January 31, 2013, 02:59:35 PM
Just noticed it will go on sale at Costco again in March ($7 off per package):
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/costco-2013-winter-savings-jan-7-april-7-a-1281818/
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: savingtofreedom on January 31, 2013, 04:50:39 PM
Thanks for the info on the costco flooring.  Very tempting.  We have carpets almost everywhere and I hate them.  I have thought about putting in wood flooring.   Also need to paint the house and would like a new countertop.  Right now I haven't done anything.   I can see how easy it is get wrapped into doing alot. 

If anyone gets the Costco flooring - let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on January 31, 2013, 04:57:22 PM
The Golden Select is 1.58 per square foot (on sale) and this includes the foam backing so you don't need to buy the foam separately.  It was the best deal we found.  The packages are really really heavy so you need two people to move them.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on January 31, 2013, 06:03:30 PM
  I think the smaller the kitchen the more important the nicer finishes are.  And the less expensive, too.  40 sq ft of granite is not that bad.

This is what I'm coming to find after living in my small apartment. I've also found that there's really not any area that doesn't get used, so durability is a concern. So long dreams of marble...

I don't like granite, but I know it's a good, long lasting option. I wanted poured concrete, but weight is an issue and my countertops take a beating. We have a tiny space to use for prep and in reality aren't that great about where we put hot pots, randomly cutting up limes on the countertop etc.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Kenoryn on January 31, 2013, 09:58:32 PM
You could consider a tile countertop. Because it's such a small area square-foot-wise you can often get ends of batches from people's larger projects on Kijiji/Craigslist or at the ReStore or similar very cheaply. I did a mosaic tile floor in my bathroom and got free tile from the discontinued sample pieces at the tile store (that only works if you don't need a whole bunch of any one thing though). Tile has the option of high-end materials like marble, is an easy DIY thing, and if you want you can have fun with the design of it.

Or, if you have/know someone with woodworking equipment (i.e. jointer, planer and table saw) you could make a wood countertop. Then you'd either need some durable hard finish on it (not sure what they use on commercial ones - presumably, nothing food-safe) or a food-safe finish you'd re-apply regularly like walnut oil.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: velocistar237 on February 01, 2013, 04:39:37 AM
There's also "engineered wood" flooring, which is between laminate and hardwood. It has a plywood substrate and a ~1/2" hardwood layer. It's supposed to be more stable than hardwood and more resistant to moisture than laminate.

I second the wood counter. You can get a butcher block top from Ikea for pretty cheap, or glue one up yourself. I would avoid planks because of expansion issues. Treat it with a salad bowl finish or other food-safe finish. From what I've heard, the upkeep is not as bad as people make it out to be. You'd have to seal granite twice a year, and I imagine that wood would be similar.

Consider getting a paint sprayer. Harbor Freight sells one (I have no experience with it), or you could get a used one. It could reduce your kitchen down-time by quite a bit. Consider using Floetrol to smooth the finish, especially if you use a paintbrush. Also, a random orbital sander could help, and a sanding sponge to get into the trim work.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: gotaholen1 on February 01, 2013, 08:05:14 AM
I have done a few granite tile countertops.  I would highly recommend this if other in your neighborhood do not have granite countertops.  If you are in an area where granite is expected, then bite the bullet and try to find a deal, if not consider granite tile.

I have done 3 granite tile countertops with the 12X12 tiles and I think my favorite was the black.  You should be able to get these tiles for about $4 each, and you can do a backsplash with a bit more flair (maybe a natural stone with a small design row).

There are other expenses with granite tile such as cement board and wood, but I think you should be able to do it for about $10-$15 per square foot.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: LadyM on February 02, 2013, 06:02:30 PM
I renovated our kitchen 6 years ago with IKEA cabinets, and I couldn't be happier.  The cabinets still look fantastic, the construction is solid, and they make their hinges and drawer glides with optional dampers you can attach to quiet everything, and it's great to not hear slamming cabinets.

I uploaded the gallery of my renovation on IKEAFANS: http://www.ikeafans.com/galleries/index.php?u=8336 (http://www.ikeafans.com/galleries/index.php?u=8336)  You have to go to page 3 for what it looked like before (in fact, before we moved in, with the old owner's furniture).  The kitchen LOOKED nice before, but was laid out poorly and very difficult to work in.  I re-designed it to be a more efficient layout, galley-style kitchen with a giant island.  We replaced the floor (old cheap pergo) with a nice high-end dupont laminate floor that looks like black slate tiles, special order at Home Depot.  The counters are all laminate from home depot, and they cost about $650 - most expensive piece was the 36" deep island top. 

We did the whole thing for about $6,000, and that number includes: cabinets, new dishwasher, countertops, flooring, stainless steel panel backsplash, hardware, interior fittings, paint, light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, and trim.  We didn't move any utilities, just re-oriented how you approach them.  The stove got moved over about a foot and the sink got pushed into the wall from that silly corner orientation.  We did all the work ourselves: I did the planning and layout, assembled all the cabinets, and my dad came over and helped me with demolition and installation.  We got the old stuff demo'd in a half of a friday, and the cabinet boxes (no doors), sink, stove, and dishwasher in place by Sunday night.  Then I just did a few doors and drawers each evening during the week, and painted and put the new floor down the following weekend.

I love the look of it, but more importantly I love how it FUNCTIONS, and I couldn't be happier.  I'm also happy with the laminate counter, as it is a workhorse and we picked a nice one that has a stone look to it.  That said, if I ever did want to replace or upgrade the counters to some flashier, I'd probably go with manufactured quartz (dupont Zodiaq) or some sort of recycled glass countertop.

This may not answer you frugal question about cabinet painting, but it's another option, especially if the functionality of your kitchen is a major irritation.  I would have been happy enough with the original white cabinets and the look of the old kitchen if it didn't suck so much to do anything in it.  You don't really get to know a kitchen until you spend some time working in it, or at least trying to work in it.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on February 15, 2013, 04:33:45 PM
I just assembled the drawer I bought from http://www.barkerdoor.com/How-to-Assemble-Drawer-Boxes-s/120.htm

It was cheaper than IKEA and so much better quality. It was easy enough to put together and is really sturdy. I'm so pleased, especially since it was a weird custom size.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: A440 on February 28, 2013, 08:51:18 PM
This is a post from a forum where lots of people are doing crazy expensive kitchen remodels, but a significant number are also doing some amazing stuff on reasonable budget.  If you are open to dark cabinets, the poster Celticmoon did an amazing kitchen makeover over-staining her builder oak cabinets. 

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0112173522421.html (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0112173522421.html)

Painting oak is okay but I think for the best results you need some sort of filler to get into the open grain.

Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: GoStumpy on March 01, 2013, 02:13:10 PM
All the stars lined up, and I have my new granite countertop for a new kitchen island in my truck.. to be installed tonight...

Total investment has been $175 ($25 was a case of beer for the granite folks), and tonight I'll be enjoying my island worth ~$2500 :)
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on March 01, 2013, 02:38:37 PM
Awesome!
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on March 01, 2013, 06:43:56 PM
Congrats, that's awesome! Post photos when it's done.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: GoStumpy on March 01, 2013, 10:11:59 PM
OVER THE MOON happy!!!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/DasCoupe/IMG_0784_zps73b23e56.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/DasCoupe/IMG_0783_zpse141107d.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/DasCoupe/IMG_0785_zpsc077debd.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/DasCoupe/IMG_0786_zps91a2cc24.jpg)
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on March 02, 2013, 06:31:20 AM
Wow, that's a lovely  piece of stone. I would be over the moon too.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on March 02, 2013, 06:56:12 AM
Beautiful!

Was this in the "remnant" bin?  (We did a bath counter from the remnant bin).
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: GoStumpy on March 02, 2013, 08:20:50 AM
Yes it was from the 'remnant' bin!  JUST big enough! 

Plus, it was in the remnant bin of my work neighbors that we get along with very well.. so I got good friend price, from the remnant bin, and I'm going to be fully polishing / detailing the owners black H2, as well as the guy that did the actual work's Dodge Ram.  So I'll be giving ~$600 in detailing in trade for the labor involved in making this masterpiece.

I'm so proud of our frugal kitchen reno :)
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Rural on March 02, 2013, 10:24:01 AM
Yes it was from the 'remnant' bin!  JUST big enough! 

Plus, it was in the remnant bin of my work neighbors that we get along with very well.. so I got good friend price, from the remnant bin, and I'm going to be fully polishing / detailing the owners black H2, as well as the guy that did the actual work's Dodge Ram.  So I'll be giving ~$600 in detailing in trade for the labor involved in making this masterpiece.

I'm so proud of our frugal kitchen reno :)

As you should be. That's gorgeous, and a great job of bargain hunting/ bartering!
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on March 02, 2013, 12:44:52 PM
Truly beautiful - I admire you for getting it done the way you have for the price you have.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Debbie M on March 04, 2013, 09:52:41 PM
I've been thinking of countertops a lot myself.  My kitchen has laminate, probably from the 'sixties.  (My house was built in the 'fifites, but most of the houses here have tile counters, so it seems like it was renovated.  And the counters are orange, so I'm guessing 'sixties.)  The counters are in great shape.  They do get stained (grape juice), but the stains eventually come out--and it turns out I don't care about that at all.  We use cutting boards and hot pads, but the house was a rental for many years before I bought it, so I know those counters took a beating.  There are only two reasons I want to replace it: 1) orange, 2) I want to replace the in-kitchen washer with more cabinets and attached counter, and it seems like it all should be one piece.

I'm not a fan of those period tile counters the rest of my neighborhood has--they are a pain to clean--I love the flat counters I have now so much more.  I'm also not a fan of granite--if you set a glass down the wrong way, it breaks.  Laminate is soft and forgiving.

The only problem is that I don't know if modern laminate is still good or if it's different now that we're not allowed to have poisons or whatever.  At first I wanted solid surface (such as Corian), but it's quite expensive, so I'm leaning toward more laminate next time.  Just trying to figure out if some colors are more regrettable than others.  The orange is fine if you like orange.  We're sort of fantasizing about some sort of mottled black with red cabinets, white walls and trim, and black-and-white checkerboard tiles.  But I'm not sure how well an extreme color like black would last.  I also like the old-timey white counters with gold flecks in them--I once had a table sort of like that, so I know you can see the stains, but I think I don't care.  There's a difference between use or patina and something just wearing out or wearing through.  I don't mind something looking old or used; I do mind it being trashed.

Another issue is water flow.  We've developed a section of counter that seems to collect water into a puddle.  I guess ideally there would be a slight tendency for water to flow toward the sink or something.  No one ever talks about this, though.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on March 05, 2013, 07:47:49 AM
I've been thinking of countertops a lot myself.  My kitchen has laminate, probably from the 'sixties.  (My house was built in the 'fifites, but most of the houses here have tile counters, so it seems like it was renovated.  And the counters are orange, so I'm guessing 'sixties.)  The counters are in great shape.  They do get stained (grape juice), but the stains eventually come out--and it turns out I don't care about that at all.  We use cutting boards and hot pads, but the house was a rental for many years before I bought it, so I know those counters took a beating.  There are only two reasons I want to replace it: 1) orange, 2) I want to replace the in-kitchen washer with more cabinets and attached counter, and it seems like it all should be one piece.

I'm not a fan of those period tile counters the rest of my neighborhood has--they are a pain to clean--I love the flat counters I have now so much more.  I'm also not a fan of granite--if you set a glass down the wrong way, it breaks.  Laminate is soft and forgiving.

The only problem is that I don't know if modern laminate is still good or if it's different now that we're not allowed to have poisons or whatever.  At first I wanted solid surface (such as Corian), but it's quite expensive, so I'm leaning toward more laminate next time.  Just trying to figure out if some colors are more regrettable than others.  The orange is fine if you like orange.  We're sort of fantasizing about some sort of mottled black with red cabinets, white walls and trim, and black-and-white checkerboard tiles.  But I'm not sure how well an extreme color like black would last.  I also like the old-timey white counters with gold flecks in them--I once had a table sort of like that, so I know you can see the stains, but I think I don't care.  There's a difference between use or patina and something just wearing out or wearing through.  I don't mind something looking old or used; I do mind it being trashed.

Another issue is water flow.  We've developed a section of counter that seems to collect water into a puddle.  I guess ideally there would be a slight tendency for water to flow toward the sink or something.  No one ever talks about this, though.

We had exactly the same internal arguments here.  Both my parents and TLW's parents have 1960s houses with original laminate that looks pretty darn good for 50ish years.  We went with laminate.  It's only a year old, so I can't tell you much about wear, but ... it still looks like it did the day it was installed.

Ours has a tiny bit of texture to it... in other words, it's not absolutely flat.  It looks ever so slightly like a drywall knock-down texture.  Smooth enough that it cleans easily, but enough texture that it adds more hiding for future imperfections. 

I'm happy with ours.  My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: babysteps on March 05, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
We moved almost 2 years ago (downsized, lower cost area-and closer to family) and did a minor kitchen reno (new paint floor & counters, new-to-us appliances, kept the cabinets as-is). 

We actually left the original 1955 laminate on the pass-through and buffet counters, and put new laminate on the 8' long sink counter. 

Because there were no turns, if we had planned ahead far enough we could have done stainless steel for not *too* much more (well, a big % but not huge incremental $), but by the time we realized this it would have extended the project (and our move-in date) by at least 3 weeks so we stuck with laminate (gray, with slight texture - so similar tone to stainless steel, although no one would mistake it).

So far all the laminate (new and old) is in good shape except one spot on the buffet where if you feel really carefully it is not fully adhered to the cabinet underneath. 

The sink is a 'surface mount'.  It's well sealed, but I splash a lot when I clean up ;) 
I used to help manage rental property, and generally laminate counters held up quite well around water, it is the sink cabinet that often came apart well before its time (relative to the other cabinets) thanks to water - especially the sink cabinet floor and the fascia/fake drawer fronts right under the counter (sometimes also the doors).  Often thought that cheap sink cabinets should come with plastic honeycomb-type cabinet bottoms ;)
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on March 05, 2013, 09:06:19 AM


The sink is a 'surface mount'.  It's well sealed, but I splash a lot when I clean up ;) 
I used to help manage rental property, and generally laminate counters held up quite well around water, it is the sink cabinet that often came apart well before its time (relative to the other cabinets) thanks to water - especially the sink cabinet floor and the fascia/fake drawer fronts right under the counter (sometimes also the doors).  Often thought that cheap sink cabinets should come with plastic honeycomb-type cabinet bottoms ;)

Where I've seen problems around water, it hasn't been the laminate, but the underlying structure.  Like you say: it is usually MDF or possibly plywood.  What is imperative here is that the edges have a good caulk seal so that no water gets under to the underlying material.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Rural on March 07, 2013, 05:36:49 AM
Thanks for the reminders; we'll be installing our sink in another week or so. We did find unfinished solid wood cabinets at a salvage place; I'm hoping that helps. We'll have to see , though: turns out the frames and fronts are solid wood, but the bottom of the sink cabinet definitely isn't. For the price, I can't really complain.

Editing to add the point of my post in the first place: So, yeah, seal it well.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Jack on March 07, 2013, 06:55:40 AM
I'm not a fan of those period tile counters the rest of my neighborhood has--they are a pain to clean--I love the flat counters I have now so much more.  I'm also not a fan of granite--if you set a glass down the wrong way, it breaks.  Laminate is soft and forgiving.

There are other options beyond laminate, tile and granite, you know. There's wood butcher block, soapstone (which is softer than granite, and was often used for sinks in really old houses as well as old laboratory countertops), epoxy or phenolic resin (which is what's used on modern laboratory countertops), PaperStone (an "eco-friendly" brand of phenolic resin using post-consumer recycled paper), stainless steel, cement (which can be DIY!), etc.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: meadow lark on March 09, 2013, 05:16:26 PM
In our rental the bottom of the sink cabinet was warped, so I bought contact paper (in a wood grain) and papered over a piece of plywood and set it on top of the warped bottom.  It looks clean, and neat.  And no longer warped.  I have also seen the suggestion to use vinyl self-stick tile.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: iamsoners on March 26, 2013, 02:33:50 PM
I don't know whether to put this here or the Anti-mustachian hall of shame but crap, I just clicked on the zillow "Budget kitchens" tab and apparently a budget kitchen is in the $30k range?  What the hell? I sure hope not. 

http://www.zillow.com/digs/budget-kitchens/

We're planning on redoing ours next year and are thinking some small fraction of that--keep the cabinets (we'll need 2 new ones as we expand the counter beyond what's there now but they're not custom so we can just get two more of the same style), new countertops, new flooring.  I assume countertops will be the big outlay. Flooring will hopefully be craigslist sourced. I'm not sure I could spend $30k if I wanted to--the induction range of my dreams only gets me $2k of the way...

I guess that has me thinking--what is the most expensive part of a typical kitchen reno? Re-plumbing? Appliances?
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Spork on March 26, 2013, 02:55:56 PM

My anecdotal observation: The amount spent on a kitchen/appliances is inversely proportional to the amount of cooking that goes on inside it.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: grantmeaname on March 26, 2013, 05:53:25 PM
I guess that has me thinking--what is the most expensive part of a typical kitchen reno? Re-plumbing? Appliances?
The Kitchen reno for my third house in the Catskills was awfully pricy if you count the butler's quarters, the larder, and the wine cellar and cheese cave. File that under appliances?
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: iamsoners on March 26, 2013, 05:54:15 PM
Precisely! I loved when Mark Bittman came out as a galley kitchen owner.  So awesome: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/mark-bittmans-bad-kitchen/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/weekinreview/14bittman.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: c on March 26, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
My setup is similar to Bittman's and, for me, it sucks. Tonight I doubled the recipe for the veg lasagna I made the other week. It was a massive PiTA having to balance bowls of various chopped veg on top of the cat scratching post because I'd run out of counter space.

A colleague recommended the street easy site for ideas on renovations (!). I was horrified at the prices quoted, but I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm going to pay a plumber to move my sink over so I can have an extra foot of counter space where the cat scratching post currently is.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: TwoWheels on March 26, 2013, 10:34:32 PM
I don't know whether to put this here or the Anti-mustachian hall of shame but crap, I just clicked on the zillow "Budget kitchens" tab and apparently a budget kitchen is in the $30k range?  What the hell? I sure hope not.

I was recently talking with someone who had just had her kitchen remodeled. Apparently she decided not to have the cabinets replaced because it would've cost around $70k. Now, she has a lot of cabinets and I have no idea what kind she was looking at, but holy SHIT. So yeah, I guess I could see $30k being a 'budget' kitchen if you're a sukka who expects to get all-new everything without lifting a finger.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Use it up, wear it out... on March 27, 2013, 08:11:14 AM
We just renovated our kitchen & master bath for a combined 11K.

We splurged on composite stone countertops as our friend the real estate agent assured us we would make it back if we sell in the next 2 years.

Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: noob515 on March 27, 2013, 12:03:19 PM
We used one of the rustoleum cabinet refacing kits and put in granite look formica.  Counter was $500 or $600 with the sink pre-cut.  I added cabinets, put in a new sink and dishwasher.  Total cost was under $1500.

We have 2 kids and the cabinets look good after 1 year.  They have a white kit.  With our without the kit, I would consider using polyurethane over the finish.

The rustoleum product uses a brush on polyurethane coat.  If you use poly, spray the doors instead of using their brush on product.


I used Rustoleum in 2 bathrooms and my kitchen.  I'm happy with how the bathrooms came out, not so much with the kitchen.  Maybe it was my application (visible brush strokes, drip marks), but I don't think the clear coat they provide is up to the wear and tear.  And it's just me and the husband.  Not sure if I want to try again with a different product or not.  Or maybe just suck it up and pay $7k for a cheap remodel by Lowes...

Rustoleum also makes a counter transformation kit - it looks easy enough, but I don't know anyone who's tried it.  They have a fairly limited color selection for it though.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Midwest on April 01, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
I used Rustoleum in 2 bathrooms and my kitchen.  I'm happy with how the bathrooms came out, not so much with the kitchen.  Maybe it was my application (visible brush strokes, drip marks), but I don't think the clear coat they provide is up to the wear and tear.  And it's just me and the husband.  Not sure if I want to try again with a different product or not.  Or maybe just suck it up and pay $7k for a cheap remodel by Lowes...

The clear coat is just water based polyurethane and the directions they have indicate 1 or 2 coats.  That isn't nearly enough.

 I did 3 or 4 very thin coats to make it look good and sprayed the doors.  I had brush strokes after the first couple of coats but those went away with more coats.  My doors have 4 or 5 coats of spray poly which definitely eliminates the brush strokes.

You might be able to lightly sand what you've already done and correct the problem without starting over.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: stevedoug on May 15, 2013, 08:10:56 AM
My down to the studs kitchen remodel was around 7 grand. (just finishing up now!) I even had the counter tops and floors installed by BIG BOX RETAILERS! GASP!
I did all of the other work myself, and nothing was really that difficult?
Where are these $30k "budget remodels" spending all this cash?
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: PantsOnFire on May 29, 2013, 10:05:14 AM
I think a lot of the really high prices come in when people get into extensive electrical work and true custom cabinetry.  Nowadays there are tons of off-the-shelf options which make giving your kitchen a polished, professional look possible without the expense of full custom cabinetry.  But not everyone knows that, or wants to actually sit down and do the measuring and bill of materials themselves.  And most people are terrified of doing any electrical work themselves.   

Too many people also blindly buy into advice from a realtor like "every dollar you spend on a kitchen or bath remodel is money well spent" so the homeowner just goes nuts on the remodel thinking they can do no wrong.  Bad idea.  It's true that the kitchen is a place where you *can* get a high return on your investment, but at $50k remodel won't always get you $40k more than a $10k remodel will.   

If you can't salvage the existing cabinets, I'll second the recommendation for Ikea.  There is zero comparison between Ikea's Akurum and Rationell (the built-in stuff) kitchen cabinetry and their cheap "college dorm" furniture, so don't make that mistake.  The quality of Ikea built-in cabinets is quite good for the price point.  The hardware is made by Blum and is at least a notch or two above the entry level stuff you find at the big box stores.  The warranty is 25 years which exceeds most of the comparably priced stuff from the other stores. 

We did a full remodel of an 11x14 kitchen for under $10k including cabinets, custom Corian countertop, appliances, lighting, light electrical work, and seamless vinyl flooring.  The only thing we kept was the old refrigerator.  When showing the home for sale a year later, we continually received positive feedback on the kitchen.  It became one of the big selling points on the home, but I could have easily spent 2-3 times as much for the same result if I didn't think things through first. 
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Insanity on May 29, 2013, 10:46:46 AM
My down to the studs kitchen remodel was around 7 grand. (just finishing up now!) I even had the counter tops and floors installed by BIG BOX RETAILERS! GASP!
I did all of the other work myself, and nothing was really that difficult?
Where are these $30k "budget remodels" spending all this cash?

Cabinets - Real wood cabinets will cost much more than what you'll spend on particle board cabinets (which is what Ikea and the big box store are).  Most contractors will tell you that on average, the real wood cabinets will last a significant amount of time longer than the particle board stuff given the abuse that cabinets take. And in our case, our contractor didn't want to purchase the cabinets, he had us do it - so there was no up charge  as he made no money off of which ever cabinet we chose.  Again, it's on average, your mileage may vary (and the warranties also vary a lot as well).  This is actually where the bulk of the difference in cost is (especially if you go for a cherry wood which is about 10% more than oak).  And then there are the slide out features.

Flooring - Vinyl/Laminent vs Tile/Hardwood. 

Counter tops - Even Corean vs Granite is a difference.  And there is a difference in quality. 

Electrical - If your box is maxed out or if you have need new service this can easily cost you a few thousand dollars to upgrade between a new breaker box, new wire runs, and even any work done by the power company.

Appliances - if you don't know where to find good deals and just go to appliance stores you can end up spending a lot more than might be necessary.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: pbkmaine on May 30, 2013, 02:45:57 AM
Kitchen remodels do not generally return money at sale of house unless you remodel and immediately flip. If you use the kitchen for 10 years after remodeling and then sell, no one is going to pay a premium for a 10-year-old kitchen. Then there is the issue of individual taste. You may love granite with big swirls in it. A potential buyer might not.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on May 30, 2013, 09:04:01 AM
I'm not sure that is true.  If you have a crappy kitchen and put the money in to reno it in sensible and stylish  ways (and under 10K) by recycling real wood cabinets or buying stuff used off CL I would expect that in 10 years you will at least get your money back.  In fact, unless you are in a depreciating area, I would bet money on it.

I for one will pay more for a decent and functional 10-year old kitchen in good repair with real wood cabinets than a crappy 70s one with old appliances and peeling lino. 
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Insanity on May 30, 2013, 09:29:32 AM
Kitchen remodels do not generally return money at sale of house unless you remodel and immediately flip. If you use the kitchen for 10 years after remodeling and then sell, no one is going to pay a premium for a 10-year-old kitchen. Then there is the issue of individual taste. You may love granite with big swirls in it. A potential buyer might not.

Sort of.  But that's not the right mentality to be looking at.  After 10 years the buyers probably got livability value out of the house. 

And while in 10 years no one will pay a premium, they likely will not take away value like we did with our 30 year old kitchen that we bought.   It was one of the factors that led us to under bid the listing price and why the house sat on the market for 6 weeks when everything else was going in 1 week.

 
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: adesertsky on May 30, 2013, 11:34:44 AM
I am going to be redoing my 1980s honey oak cabinets in a few weeks with an AMAZING gel stain to make them darker and more modern without getting rid of the wood look.  I tested the stain on a pair of honey oak kitchen stools and they came out so gorgeous.  Best of all, it is just 20 bucks plus a few minor supplies you may already have (gloves, foam brushes, rags, tape if needed, sandpaper, etc).

http://www.amazon.com/General-Finishes-GEL-JAVA-QT/dp/B001DSY50Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369935099&sr=8-1&keywords=gel+stain (http://www.amazon.com/General-Finishes-GEL-JAVA-QT/dp/B001DSY50Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369935099&sr=8-1&keywords=gel+stain)

I'll also just be painting my walls to freshen everything and adding an updated sink light.  Already scrubbed the floor to death and patched cracking grout and I can't believe how much better it is already.  I have laminate counters in decent condition so that should be it for a totally new look.  I don't anticipate spending more than $200.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: stevedoug on June 18, 2013, 11:21:40 AM
My down to the studs kitchen remodel was around 7 grand. (just finishing up now!) I even had the counter tops and floors installed by BIG BOX RETAILERS! GASP!
I did all of the other work myself, and nothing was really that difficult?
Where are these $30k "budget remodels" spending all this cash?

Cabinets - Real wood cabinets will cost much more than what you'll spend on particle board cabinets (which is what Ikea and the big box store are).  Most contractors will tell you that on average, the real wood cabinets will last a significant amount of time longer than the particle board stuff given the abuse that cabinets take. And in our case, our contractor didn't want to purchase the cabinets, he had us do it - so there was no up charge  as he made no money off of which ever cabinet we chose.  Again, it's on average, your mileage may vary (and the warranties also vary a lot as well).  This is actually where the bulk of the difference in cost is (especially if you go for a cherry wood which is about 10% more than oak).  And then there are the slide out features.

Flooring - Vinyl/Laminent vs Tile/Hardwood. 

Counter tops - Even Corean vs Granite is a difference.  And there is a difference in quality. 

Electrical - If your box is maxed out or if you have need new service this can easily cost you a few thousand dollars to upgrade between a new breaker box, new wire runs, and even any work done by the power company.

Appliances - if you don't know where to find good deals and just go to appliance stores you can end up spending a lot more than might be necessary.

Agree and understand on what you are mentioning here.

Some areas 'expect' granite. Luckily mine does not. Quality is usually defined on how well an item meets it's expected functional goals. One could argue that granite meets its functional goals of being a surface a bit better, but maybe not 300 to 500% better.

As far as particle board/IKEA cabinets go?
I'd still highly recommend them to anyone. Especially if you own a rental or high abuse area.
after 5 to 10 years? are they aging? Buy individual parts you need to repair them.
Or, spend another $2500 and completely refresh it.
I could buy 5 versions of my cabinetry for $10000. I could refresh it every year, for the same $10000 initial investment.
People see a brand new kitchen and often they may be ready to slip the money in my "figurative" G string
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Insanity on June 18, 2013, 03:00:29 PM
My down to the studs kitchen remodel was around 7 grand. (just finishing up now!) I even had the counter tops and floors installed by BIG BOX RETAILERS! GASP!
I did all of the other work myself, and nothing was really that difficult?
Where are these $30k "budget remodels" spending all this cash?

Cabinets - Real wood cabinets will cost much more than what you'll spend on particle board cabinets (which is what Ikea and the big box store are).  Most contractors will tell you that on average, the real wood cabinets will last a significant amount of time longer than the particle board stuff given the abuse that cabinets take. And in our case, our contractor didn't want to purchase the cabinets, he had us do it - so there was no up charge  as he made no money off of which ever cabinet we chose.  Again, it's on average, your mileage may vary (and the warranties also vary a lot as well).  This is actually where the bulk of the difference in cost is (especially if you go for a cherry wood which is about 10% more than oak).  And then there are the slide out features.

Flooring - Vinyl/Laminent vs Tile/Hardwood. 

Counter tops - Even Corean vs Granite is a difference.  And there is a difference in quality. 

Electrical - If your box is maxed out or if you have need new service this can easily cost you a few thousand dollars to upgrade between a new breaker box, new wire runs, and even any work done by the power company.

Appliances - if you don't know where to find good deals and just go to appliance stores you can end up spending a lot more than might be necessary.

Agree and understand on what you are mentioning here.

Some areas 'expect' granite. Luckily mine does not. Quality is usually defined on how well an item meets it's expected functional goals. One could argue that granite meets its functional goals of being a surface a bit better, but maybe not 300 to 500% better.

As far as particle board/IKEA cabinets go?
I'd still highly recommend them to anyone. Especially if you own a rental or high abuse area.
after 5 to 10 years? are they aging? Buy individual parts you need to repair them.
Or, spend another $2500 and completely refresh it.
I could buy 5 versions of my cabinetry for $10000. I could refresh it every year, for the same $10000 initial investment.
People see a brand new kitchen and often they may be ready to slip the money in my "figurative" G string

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't necessarily buy top of the line for a place that is a rental.  I'd definitely go where the replacement cost is cheap enough to deal with and bring in more cash flow.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jamccain on June 20, 2013, 12:10:58 AM
Here in America the general population spends WAY WAY too much money on kitchens. I LOVE that we still have the freedom to do that and if you want that by all means enjoy yourself.  However, my point is the paradigm hass shifted WAY over to pure excess from what you really "need" in a kitchen and most people aren't even aware of how little you can get by on.  If you have never seen how little people get away with in a kitchen in places like central and south america and southeast Asia you should search around on line sometime and take a look. 

What do you really NEED:
Gas burner--two top
Sink
Frig
Some storage which can be a basic shelf
Some counter space to prepare things

What you WANT:
Oven
Microwave
Cabinets
Dishwasher

What most people GET:
Custom cabinets below and above counter---enough for about ten times more stuff than they "need"
Granite or some other expense counter top
High end stove, the more burners the better and preferably a double oven (for those 2-3 times a year you cook for family)
SS dishwasher that costs twice the basic model
Oversized Frig with everything from a cake drawer, to water dispenser
Tile backsplash
Etc. Etc. You get the picture.

Now, if you live in a $200-300+K home and are going to sell one day you may need the kitchen you have, or want to remodel into, but if you are done moving you can get away with so much less money in a remodel by being creative with materials and not going overboard with stuff in it.  Which is what it sounds like this thread is all about and what people here are already doing.  This is one example of a kitchen I love that takes this all a step further:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FyuEWGccr7o/T15fdQuoIaI/AAAAAAAAAv0/57gqOzCtAlA/s1600/small-kitchen-design-1.jpg)

Counter tops: Nice wood resembling a butcher block, but this looks homemade
Cabinets: repurposed office file drawers with some DIY woodwork around them, basic open shelve above
Classic subway tile back splash (a splurge, but really makes it look nice for ~$200)
Simple gas burner with ventilation
Original wood floors
Basic sink
Small frig (see that tiny SS sliver in the bottom right of the photo)
Dish washer--see that wire rack there
No oven.  (won't work for everyone, but those little counter top versions work for many people)
Kitchen table is positioned to serve as an island for extra counter space

This kitchen looks awesome, would be a classic in many homes (not all), very functional, everything you need, nothing you don't.  Wouldn't surprise me if someone could do it with craigslist for under $1K.

BTW, full disclosure, I have a pretty decent traditional kitchen in my rental (primary residence) and my wife loves the big pretty kitchen.  We are in the due diligence phase of buying a small warehouse to convert into a home and this is an example of the kitchen I will be installing there. 

Just to make things clear...I'm not judging you if you want all the bells and whistles in your own kitchen, that's awesome, enjoy it!  I am sensitive to some people on these very boards making value judgments against others based on what they want to spend money on...I don't intend to do that in this post (or ever), though I admit I sound a little preachy in the beginning. 
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: grantmeaname on June 20, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
You had me until the file cabinets.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Insanity on June 20, 2013, 07:34:43 AM
What do you really NEED:
Gas burner--two top
Sink
Frig
Some storage which can be a basic shelf
Some counter space to prepare things

What you WANT:
Oven
Microwave
Cabinets
Dishwasher

What most people GET:
Custom cabinets below and above counter---enough for about ten times more stuff than they "need"
Granite or some other expense counter top
High end stove, the more burners the better and preferably a double oven (for those 2-3 times a year you cook for family)
SS dishwasher that costs twice the basic model
Oversized Frig with everything from a cake drawer, to water dispenser
Tile backsplash
Etc. Etc. You get the picture.


I disagree with this, to a degree.  The fact that I don't need a dishwasher when I have a family of four and two working parents might be true, but it certainly makes it more efficient for me to be able to do other things rather than spend 30 minutes a night watching dishes.  A microwave also comes in handy for defrosting or melting butter in order to decrease prep time for cooking meals.  A standard fridge is not oversized when you are looking at families.

Sure your kitchen might work for some families that don't eat meat, dairy, or have kids.  Or for the person that lives on their own.  But if you want to entertain (cheaper than eating out, right?), having a larger kitchen is most certainly a necessity.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: totoro on June 20, 2013, 09:45:07 AM
I think this kitchen works well for what you could do if you were converting a warehouse to living space for a couple of people.  I can see being really happy with the low cost and DIYness.  If this is your dream I think it is great.  Having lived in Asia, yes a lot of the world has smaller kitchens - although that is changing.

The thing is you can get dishwashers, ovens, cabinets and a microwave (these are cheap new too) on CL for less than a $1000 total where I live.  They will be nice.  They will be practical if you have a family and/or cook for others a lot. 

You can get by on a lot less in a kitchen but if you find that you would benefit from these items and they will increase resale value I see no good reason, including financial, to do without them.   

Also, I  don't see how a gas stove is a necessity - maybe you just meant stovetop.  You can get a two-burner electric stovetop too.

There is a cost/benefit calculation that is missing some factors in your analysis - although maybe not for you.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Rural on June 20, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
I got new solid wood cabinets, a high-efficiency dishwasher, and a new microwave for almost exactly $1,000 a few months ago. I did already own the oven, but given that it's a harvest gold model from the 70s, I could have gotten one like it, too, for another $50 or so (it works well).

Do what you want, but if you're willing to DIY in the first place, the minimal kitchen should be there because you want it, not as a money-saver.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jamccain on June 20, 2013, 08:21:52 PM
What do you really NEED:
Gas burner--two top
Sink
Frig
Some storage which can be a basic shelf
Some counter space to prepare things

What you WANT:
Oven
Microwave
Cabinets
Dishwasher

What most people GET:
Custom cabinets below and above counter---enough for about ten times more stuff than they "need"
Granite or some other expense counter top
High end stove, the more burners the better and preferably a double oven (for those 2-3 times a year you cook for family)
SS dishwasher that costs twice the basic model
Oversized Frig with everything from a cake drawer, to water dispenser
Tile backsplash
Etc. Etc. You get the picture.


I disagree with this, to a degree.  The fact that I don't need a dishwasher when I have a family of four and two working parents might be true, but it certainly makes it more efficient for me to be able to do other things rather than spend 30 minutes a night watching dishes.  A microwave also comes in handy for defrosting or melting butter in order to decrease prep time for cooking meals.  A standard fridge is not oversized when you are looking at families.

Sure your kitchen might work for some families that don't eat meat, dairy, or have kids.  Or for the person that lives on their own.  But if you want to entertain (cheaper than eating out, right?), having a larger kitchen is most certainly a necessity.

I agree with you...  :)  Those things do increase your quality of life and sound like they're worth the money for your family.  BTW, I would never have one of those mini fridges either. 
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jamccain on June 20, 2013, 08:23:22 PM
You had me until the file cabinets.

Ha ha, they are a little funky, but a lot of people spend big money for the same functionality.  My wife hasn't seen them yet...she may kill me when she does...
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jamccain on June 20, 2013, 08:28:38 PM
I think this kitchen works well for what you could do if you were converting a warehouse to living space for a couple of people.  I can see being really happy with the low cost and DIYness.  If this is your dream I think it is great.  Having lived in Asia, yes a lot of the world has smaller kitchens - although that is changing.

The thing is you can get dishwashers, ovens, cabinets and a microwave (these are cheap new too) on CL for less than a $1000 total where I live.  They will be nice.  They will be practical if you have a family and/or cook for others a lot. 

You can get by on a lot less in a kitchen but if you find that you would benefit from these items and they will increase resale value I see no good reason, including financial, to do without them.   

Also, I  don't see how a gas stove is a necessity - maybe you just meant stovetop.  You can get a two-burner electric stovetop too.

There is a cost/benefit calculation that is missing some factors in your analysis - although maybe not for you.

Good points by all. 

Yeah, I meant a stovetop...doesn't have to be gas.  I was thinking of 2-3 people, though it COULD work for a lot more.  DIY was my primary concern, not cost...I want to do this "project" by myself for the satisfaction of it.  I wouldn't suggest a kitchen like that if you are thinking about re-sell...in fact I would say DO NOT do that if resell is a factor at all.  Although, it could be a great kitchen for a rental depending on some other things.

My wife could ultimately force a DW, and some of the things into the design, but they will be bought off CL like you suggest.  In the end, my post is more about the conversation than anything.  For empty nesters or the young set this style kitchen could work really well and doesn't have to be a palace was my primary point.   
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jannereeves on June 25, 2013, 04:22:53 AM
Excellent kitchen and countertop goStumpy,
White color is always the king in kitchen, especially for the smaller ones.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jawisco on June 26, 2013, 06:41:28 PM
I just finished up a decent kitchen project - tear out the old sink and sink cabinets and replace them all.  Included in the work was replacing the floor, sistering the rotted out floor joists, and repairing the wall (I bet the previous owner had a leak under that sink for years).

I did it with craigslist countertop, sink, and cabinets and customized to make things fit properly.  It cost about $200 and probably around 60 hours of labor.  It came out decent, but is a huge improvement.

The nice thing is, even if you don't have an ideal kitchen in terms of space or materials, if you can DIY stuff and put exactly what you want, exactly where you need it (with shelves and hangers), you can have a great FUNCTIONING kitchen in practically any space.  Customizing is key.

I have a very modest house, so even though I make mistakes and things don't look perfect, I do feel free to give it a shot with my mediocre skills.  If I had an expensive place, there would be a lot to lose by messing things up - DIY would be a lot less fun for me.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: jamccain on June 27, 2013, 10:16:41 PM
I just finished up a decent kitchen project - tear out the old sink and sink cabinets and replace them all.  Included in the work was replacing the floor, sistering the rotted out floor joists, and repairing the wall (I bet the previous owner had a leak under that sink for years).

I did it with craigslist countertop, sink, and cabinets and customized to make things fit properly.  It cost about $200 and probably around 60 hours of labor.  It came out decent, but is a huge improvement.

The nice thing is, even if you don't have an ideal kitchen in terms of space or materials, if you can DIY stuff and put exactly what you want, exactly where you need it (with shelves and hangers), you can have a great FUNCTIONING kitchen in practically any space.  Customizing is key.

I have a very modest house, so even though I make mistakes and things don't look perfect, I do feel free to give it a shot with my mediocre skills.  If I had an expensive place, there would be a lot to lose by messing things up - DIY would be a lot less fun for me.

Love it!  If you can share some photos...
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Daleth on July 05, 2013, 12:36:37 PM
FYI Barker Door is fantastic.  We ordered about 2K worth of doors from them late last year and the quality is incredible.  Shipping was free as we spent over $1500

My mom refaced her kitchen (new doors and drawer fronts) through the Drawer Depot (http://www.drawerbuilder.com). They send it to you unfinished and you paint or stain/finish them, attach the hardware and install. She got some new drawer boxes too and chose the option of having them build and polyurethane them because it wasn't that much and saved her contractor a lot of work--she's disabled and couldn't do any work herself.

Home Depot had come out to do measurements and gave her a completely ridiculous quote of around $10,000 to reface her kitchen. The stuff she got from Drawer Depot cost around $1200 and then it was maybe another $1500 to have her contractor paint, assemble and install it all. And I bought the Drawer Depot stuff so I can say first-hand that they were awesome: never a problem getting through to a human being when I called, quality stuff, and after I placed the order I got update emails every day or two saying things like "Your drawer boxes have been assembled, and now they are going to Juan, who will finish them!" Overall an awesome experience. Sorry I can't remember exact prices but this was 3-4 years ago.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: needmyfi on July 05, 2013, 06:47:12 PM
FYI Barker Door is fantastic.  We ordered about 2K worth of doors from them late last year and the quality is incredible.  Shipping was free as we spent over $1500

My mom refaced her kitchen (new doors and drawer fronts) through the Drawer Depot (http://www.drawerbuilder.com). They send it to you unfinished and you paint or stain/finish them, attach the hardware and install. She got some new drawer boxes too and chose the option of having them build and polyurethane them because it wasn't that much and saved her contractor a lot of work--she's disabled and couldn't do any work herself.

gotaholen1 (I realize this is an old thread for you)  and Daleth, I have a question.  Did either of you look into resurfacing the cabinet faces themselves?  This looks like the scariest for me, but I'm afraid that our old slab style doors show a lot of the under cabinet.  The faces have some deep gouges in them from lots of use. There is also a section where the side of my cabinet faces the room. The cabinet boxes themselves are solid wood and very sturdy, but I'm afraid new doors I'll not be able to match existing to remain.  Saw a thicker version of a veneer online that claims to be easy to use, but don't want to spend a bunch to have it look bad Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Daleth on July 07, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Needmyfi, we didn't look into that. If I hear what you're saying it sounds like you have partial-overlay doors and drawers (as opposed to full overlay, which completely cover the cabinet faces when closed--or almost completely: they leave about 1/8" of the face showing, vs. the 2" that partial-overlay cabinets typically show). So your challenge is to get the new doors/drawer fronts to match the faces. The easiest way to do what you're describing without switching to full-overlay style would be to go with a painted look, rather than a stained one, and do as follows:

- Prep the cabinet faces and sides (i.e. clean the crap out of them, sand, prime, patch, sand the patches, prime again, paint); and then

- Prime and paint the new cabinet doors and drawers using the same products, and that way of course they'll match the faces. (Drawer Builder/www.drawerdepot.com sells the doors and drawer fronts unfinished, so you can ensure that they match exactly.)

I imagine you could do roughly the same thing and still go with a stained look, but it'd be a lot more work--not on the drawers and door fronts, which would if anything probably be easier that way, but on the faces, because you'd need to sand the faces all the way down to the bare wood and depending how bad of shape they're in it could be tough to make the patches "disappear" or almost disappear under a stained finish. Making patches disappear is no problem, in contrast, if you paint instead of staining.

You can also reduce the problem a lot (though not on the exposed side of the cabinet facing the room) by ordering new doors and drawer fronts in sizes that, once installed, would give you a "full overlay" look instead of a "partial overlay" one. This might give you more leeway to go with a stain rather than a paint. Here's an article on how to do that:
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/change-partial-overlay-cabinets-full-overlay-cabinets-46351.html

That article's pretty good, but it assumes a non-mustachian approach: it says, "Give these measurements to the door manufacturer to get full overlay doors that will completely conceal your cabinet frame." Um no. If you get the doors/drawers from Drawer Depot or a similar place, you must figure out the measurements yourself--in other words, figure out yourself what size doors and drawer fronts would be needed. But it certainly can be done, and good luck!

Maybe this sounds like a lot of work, but I doubt it's all that different from cutting veneer to fit your cabinets and preparing the surfaces so you can glue it on, and the result would probably be light years better looking. In case you're interested, here are a couple of articles about painting cabinets:
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/how-to/intro/0,,20315665,00.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/how-to/intro/0,,20209705,00.html

I've done it myself and it truly was a weekend project... maybe a long weekend. And it was very satisfying.
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: Frugally-raised on July 08, 2013, 10:12:22 AM
As others have said, the key to a good paint job is proper preparation. Especially in greasy kitchens!

I, too, had a golden oak kitchen that I bought with the house. Hated it, and tried a gel to darken it. Disaster. Mottled, uneven color, etc. Since the cabinets and drawers were not high quality (couldn't adjust the shelves, drawers did not fully open), I opted to replace them with upgraded versions.

But I stuck to my original plan and used Formica on the countertops. I hate laminates that try to imitate stone, and light colors don't look good at the seams (laminates have a brown core). So I found one that looks sort of like diatoms. I also eked out a few more years with my dishwasher by having a Formica panel cut for it (the original one had a big dent & I couldn't find a replacement). That was an awesome and cheap upgrade.

Formica is very easy to clean (unlike tile, with all its grout), my pattern hides hides minor dirt and is pretty funky, doesn't break dishes and glasses if I set them down wrong, and was much less expensive than stone or composite. A very picky friend of mine says that her new Formica hasn't lasted as long has the Formica she replaced (probably installed in the 1960s), but I couldn't find any impartial reviews to back that up. The product hasn't changed significantly, as far as I can tell.

There are two major manufacturers of laminate countertop material in the US: Formica and WilsonArt. If you go to a big box store, be aware that the colors you see may be only a subset of what is available. Check out a countertop manufacturer for the full range (and they may also have discontinued patterns).
Title: Re: Frugal kitchen reno
Post by: FrugalZony on July 08, 2013, 11:47:26 AM
We bought a fixer upper a few years ago and the kitchen looked baaaad. Stuck in the eighties appliance wise (I am an eighties kid,
so I love the Music....however the appliances not so much). Bad pink faux marble tiling with hardly matching small red tile on floor.
Golden oak cabinets and pink tile countertops. It hurt my eyes. But my little cheapskate heart loved the location, the backyard and the price
for the location ;)
Although I would have loved a nice upgraded kitchen, I knew I could do a lipstick on a pig kind of job on it and we did.
We had kitchen, dining room and living room retiled by pros. We just did not have the time back then to get it done efficiently
It was too big of a job to do the entire floor with steps etc. for us and because it was at the height of the crisis we got a decent
deal on the tiling. They did a good job too, much better than we would have done for sure.

Then the rest we did ourselves:
- Stained the cabinets dark (yes it's somewhat uneven in spots, but it improved the look tremendously)
- Used Epoxy paint (the stuff you use to resurface bathtubs) to paint the pink counters off white
- Made do with the 80ties appliances, that were in perfectly good working conditions, until I found a
deal on barely used high end kitchenaid stainless steel appliances on Craigslist from a gal, who decided that she
needs even better stuff for her kitchen
- Transported and switched out our appliances ourselves (hubby hurt his foot in the process, but even factoring
in the cost of urgent care, we got a deal  ;) )

I looked into granite, as it is expected in our area, but for me, what we have is good enough
The paint has come off in high traffic areas, but it's been mostly holding off well in the 4.5 years
and I do cook a lot
I know one of these days I have to look into an upgrade, or maybe buy another thing of paint ;) though