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[less4success]

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[Syonyk]

I generally jack from either a suspension bushing or a frame rail, depending on the vehicle.  I prefer suspension points if I can get to them (usually where the front A-arm joins the body), because they're less likely to crush than the frame rail.

If I'm going to have any part of me under a vehicle such that the vehicle falling would pin or crush my body part, it's supported by jack stands.  Period.

Ramps are not jack stands.  So I don't use them.

I would consider getting under a vehicle supported by a wooden ramp no more than 2 or 3 2x6s high (stagger them so you can drive up on it).

But the time spent getting a vehicle jacked and on jack stands is a small time price to pay for the certainty it gives you.

[Racer X]

I guess I prefer ramps over jack stands whenever possible.  I've seen far too many people jack at the wrong location causing damage, people place the stands incorrectly creating an unstable lift, or people just use cheap, dangerous Harbor Fright jack stands.  I have to admit, I've never heard of anyone driving clean over the top of a ramp, but I guess if that's a personal concern, it's something to consider.  The only problem with Rhino Ramps in my mind, is that if your surface is very smooth, they might be tough to drive up - they'll slide on fresh smooth concrete with a bit of concrete dust on it.  Also, if you have a very low slung car with a big front air dam, you might need to put a 1x6 or something in front of the ramps to decrease the approach angle.

[davisgang90]

I've got a set of rhino ramps that work great.  For a small car they are fine.  Do use a chock on your rear wheels.

[zolotiyeruki]

I'm the guy you saw in the other thread who prefers jack stands.  I use a trolley jack at the "approved" points, and place the jack stands as close to the jack as possible when lowering it down.

At some point, I want to build some full-length ramps for my garage, so I can drive the whole car up on the ramps and not worry about overrunning the end of the ramps.

[Greg]

I do a lot of work on my vehicles (VW van and sports car) and use ramps (super heavy steel models, not sure they still make them) when I don't need the vehicle flat, or don't need to remove the wheels.  Super handy that way.  The ramps I have are so stout, I have no reservations about being under the vehicle.  I don't think I'd trust plastic ones.

[guitar_stitch]

I prefer jack stands, but that's because while I'm doing an oil change, I also do an inspection of brake lines, brake pads/shoes, and wheel bearing seals.

[zolotiyeruki]

If I could afford it, and if my garage ceiling were higher, I'd *totally* spring for a nice two-post lift....

[MnemonicMonkey]

For an oil change, I'll use ramps if anything. Did my wife's Sienna last night without either, since they're both in use changing head gaskets on my car. Get a Fumoto quikvalve too. That's really the key to a quick easy oil change.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[pagoconcheques]

Depending on where you change your oil, you may just be able to use the old curb trick and forego all the extra equipment. 

Starting at your driveway,  and driving parallel to the curb, drive the wheels on one side of the car along the curb so that side of the car is elevated (typically 6-10").  The car will look pretty much like it is parallel parked, but one side will be elevated due to being on the curb.  If there is a lot of road crown the car may actually be closer to level than when parked normally. Secure the car (parking brake, in Park/gear, etc., so that it cannot roll).  Get your supplies and change the oil right there. 

This trick dates to the era when some people (not me) would drain their oil near a large curb storm drain so they didn't have to bother with disposing of it later (never mind folks downstream or the water table).  But as long as you use a catch pan and take the old oil to a recycling facility this is an environmentally responsible as doing it in your driveway. 

[Syonyk]

Get a Fumoto quikvalve too. That's really the key to a quick easy oil change.

Those valves are awesome, though I will argue that they do not, by any means, qualify as "quick."  They have a fairly small orifice for the oil to drain from, and take radically longer than normal (just pulling the drain plug) to drain the oil.

At least I can throw a 5 gallon bucket under my oil pan & go do something else while it's taking it's 20 minutes to drain... :/

[patrat]

If possible, go for the none option. Not referring to ditching the car, but kudos if you can.

When I had a small truck (toyota tacoma) the ground clearance spoiled me for oil changes. Slide under, loosen plug, whip the drain pan into place. Well, as it turns out it is possible to do with our 2006 corolla too, just barely. There is hardly any room, so you need to know where everything is and find it by touch, since you won't fit with the drainpan. A ratcheting wrench is recommended.

If possible, this is the easiest DIY oil change because you don't have to fool with lifting the car up at all.

Another option, which I did once in a hurry is the "immigrant" car ramp. Driving one side of the car up on the street kerb gives a moderate amount of extra space to work, but you better not let any spill because you are right over a storm gutter.

And a quick tip: Buy your oil in the 5 quart jug. Everytime a 5 quart jug is empty, pour the catchpan into the jug. Then you can take the jug in for recycling, which is nice because it seals better than any catchpan. For recycling the filter, invert your disposable glove over the filter to prevent drips in transit. Most places recycle filters now.

as an engineer, I don't trust the drain valve. It slows down drain flow, and a fast flow can help flush out crud in the engine oilpan. Also, it provides one more way (accidental opening or failure) to lose your engine oil.

[PARedbeard]

I used to prefer ramps, but I am getting more and more enamored with the jack stands. I like their height adjust-ability and the fact that you can use them wherever--garage, driveway, in a townhome parking circle. I also like that you cannot drive off of them as one *cough* overzealous *cough* person may have done a few months ago...

[kendallf]

I think jack stands are much easier for a solo person; as somebody else mentioned, I have had multiple vehicles that had front air dam clearance issues with ramps as well.

Most vehicles have stamped reinforcements in the unibody under the floor pan that look roughly like the bottom of an old style  frame rail.  I try to use the floor jack and the jack stands in these areas.  I will often use a 1x4 to spread out the load from the jack for some insurance against crushing the floor pan of the car upward.  I also often put the jack stands under the lower A-arm mounting points, if they're designed so that there's a flat enough area to do so.

[Slam]

Harbor Fright

I hope that was intentional.  I laughed.

[Chris22]

If I'm going to have any part of me under a vehicle such that the vehicle falling would pin or crush my body part, it's supported by jack stands.  Period.

Ramps are not jack stands.  So I don't use them.

If you mean that literally, it's very silly.  Unless you can articulate why ramps are demonstrably less stable/substantial than jack stands.  I use jack stands (have used ramps before) but would argue it takes a lot less skill to drive up on a ramp than to use jack stands *correctly*.

[Spork]

I gotta say: I don't understand the question.

I do have both ramps and jackstands.  But I don't use them for oil changes.   Even on my Triumph Tr6 (which is super low to the ground) I can change the oil by just laying on the ground and reaching under.

I am sure there are some cars that are too low... but I'd hazard > 90% of cars don't require any sort of lifting to change the oil.

[Syonyk]

I do mean it literally.  I know people who have had vehicles fall off ramps before, fortunately not damaging them or the vehicle (much), and a good set of jackstands is more stable than ramps.  Plus there's approach angle issues for ramps on a lot of vehicles.

I don't use ramps, have never owned a set, and never intend to own a set.

[Cole]

Regarding placement of jackstands: generally anywhere on the pinch welds is what is was taught in tech school. I still try to stay close to the designated lifting areas.

[notoriusjt2]

 I have those plastic Rhino ramps I got from Advance Auto Parts. I like them but I don't 100% trust them so I always throw a set of jack stands under the frame just in case. Chock the wheels & set the parking brake as well

[Spork]

I will try and see if I can do everything without lifting the car, but I doubt I'll be able to get enough leverage to loosen/tighten the drain plug. I think my manual said you only need to tighten the drain plug to ~12 ft lbs, but every place that's changed my oil in the past has been pretty overzealous (and, sadly, the car I need to work on was last changed at the dealer).

Every car is different, so this may not apply... but I can get an 18" breaker bar on all of mine* with no jacking/ramps (and I have an unmustacian 4 cars right now).  I just have to point the bar out to the side.  When you have one that's over tightened, you only need a tiny fraction of a turn to break it loose.  Just watch your knuckles!

*I say "all of mine" ...  but the old Britcar has a square plug and I have no square sockets... so I've never done it on that one.  But I think I *could* if I had a half inch square socket.

[Cole]

Every car is different, so this may not apply... but I can get an 18" breaker bar on all of mine* with no jacking/ramps (and I have an unmustacian 4 cars right now).  I just have to point the bar out to the side.  When you have one that's over tightened, you only need a tiny fraction of a turn to break it loose.  Just watch your knuckles!

*I say "all of mine" ...  but the old Britcar has a square plug and I have no square sockets... so I've never done it on that one.  But I think I *could* if I had a half inch square socket.

If the 1/2in plug faces inward just shove the end of a 1/2in extension in it to remove it. If it faces outward just try 12 point sockets until one fits snugly and use that to remove it.

[Spork]

Every car is different, so this may not apply... but I can get an 18" breaker bar on all of mine* with no jacking/ramps (and I have an unmustacian 4 cars right now).  I just have to point the bar out to the side.  When you have one that's over tightened, you only need a tiny fraction of a turn to break it loose.  Just watch your knuckles!

*I say "all of mine" ...  but the old Britcar has a square plug and I have no square sockets... so I've never done it on that one.  But I think I *could* if I had a half inch square socket.

If the 1/2in plug faces inward just shove the end of a 1/2in extension in it to remove it. If it faces outward just try 12 point sockets until one fits snugly and use that to remove it.

It's had enough abuse over the years that it really needs the full support of an open end wrench.  ...but I've never needed more torque than I get from an open end wrench.

[dess1313]

I have a travel sized hydraulic floor jack.  Its made to be left in a trunk, folds down compactly, and comes in a small case.  its super easy to use, and has a fairly high lifting range.  You can get different sizes and its on wheels so easy to move around before setting it under the car.  http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641759_200641759  This is like what i have, link is from a google search.  I use it to change my oil, and to do my tire changes each spring/fall.  When i do my oil, my corolla is low, so i just jack on the side where i do my tire, and its enough lift for me to slide under and just be able to reach everything. 

[Syonyk]

You slide under, with it just supported by the jack?

[dess1313]

with a stable floor style hydraulic jack yes.  the car has limited clearance, but its not crushing limited.  I would never do it with some of the older jacks i have used back on the farm.  I only change my oil about 4 or 5 times a year, and just need the one side lifted up a bit for wiggle room so i can see what i am doing.  I am not jacking up the entire front end

[Spork]

with a stable floor style hydraulic jack yes.  the car has limited clearance, but its not crushing limited.  I would never do it with some of the older jacks i have used back on the farm.  I only change my oil about 4 or 5 times a year, and just need the one side lifted up a bit for wiggle room so i can see what i am doing.  I am not jacking up the entire front end

Actually, a hydraulic jack is probably the worst for falling -- especially the larger ones that have wheels and have to creep in as the car rises.  I know of a couple of families that lost their sons to nice hydraulic jacks.  Maybe in your case you are just taking a hundred pounds off the springs in one corner.... but please don't give folks the impression that it's ok to get under a car held up by a jack.

[dess1313]

Well news to me.  I had to google what a jack stand was.  Compared to some of the other jacks i've used in my life, its way more stable.  Compared to what i think is called a farm jack, with the 1-5 feet of vertical lift and the large holed center rail, a hydraulic jack was way way better.  Those bloody things are nasty to use.

[patrat]

For now, I think I'll be sticking with the jack+jack stands. Thanks for the suggestions on where to place the floor jack and jack stands--my main issue is I'm such a noob that I don't really know how to recognize all these different spots. I noticed last time on my old car that the pinch welds had a bunch of spots that looked slightly bent/mangled--so I guess at least one auto shop (since I never worked on that car until very recently) was supporting the car there (for better or worse).

Search google for your vehicle make model year, plus the words jacking point. eg "2006 toyota corolla jacking point". There seems to be a forum out there for every model of vehicle, even my geo storm had a great online forum with people posting pictures, procedures, etc to show how to do things.

If you get few hits, try omitting the model year and filtering through on your own. Cars tend to have model years which are alike, in my above example the 2003-2007 would all use the same information.

[Spork]

Don't worry, I spent hours searching for jack point info--there is plenty of info, the problem is that it's all conflicting and it's hard to tell who to believe since everyone sounds so  (and they mock everyone who disagrees :)

What I do (mock away!): I generally use points under the suspension.  There is usually room for a floor jack and a little room to sneak a jackstand under there once it is up.  On cars with large sealed rear axles, I will use a jack/stands on those.  On old cars with actual large frame rails, almost any part of the rail is a jack point. 

[OttoVonBisquick]

Don't worry, I spent hours searching for jack point info--there is plenty of info, the problem is that it's all conflicting and it's hard to tell who to believe since everyone sounds so  (and they mock everyone who disagrees :)

What I do (mock away!): I generally use points under the suspension.  There is usually room for a floor jack and a little room to sneak a jackstand under there once it is up.  On cars with large sealed rear axles, I will use a jack/stands on those.  On old cars with actual large frame rails, almost any part of the rail is a jack point. 

When I did the oil change about a week ago on my 2002 Hyundai Accent, it did indeed have frame rails, upon which any point is a jack point.

That being said, using a principle of linear vs. angular movement, jacking further towards the back wheels will give you a little more space, but I'm not an expert on safety, so maybe someone can weigh in on doing this.

[Syonyk]

Don't lift from the center of the car to change the oil.  You want as much weight on the other wheels as possible for stability.

[enigmaT120]

I couldn't believe how I have to do it with my Insight:  I have to jack up a whole side of the car, from a middle point, put a jack stand under the front (for oil change) and then do the other side.  The last time I wanted to do an inspection and I had the whole car up on 4 jack stands. 

That car doesn't have enough clearance to be able to drive it up ramps. 

[lemanfan]

For just changing oil and filter, I leave the car on the ground and use a pump to get the oil out.  Easier, cleaner, quicker.

But I guess it depens on your car model if it works well, meaning if the dipstick tube gets you to the bottom of the oil pan. I've used it succesfully on Saabs, Audis and Mercedes-Benzes (hey, I live in Europe, these are more or less domestic cars for me).

That said, when I do need to get under my car, I use jacks and jack stands.

[Jack]

When I did the oil change about a week ago on my 2002 Hyundai Accent, it did indeed have frame rails, upon which any point is a jack point.

Not true: only certain spots on each end of the frame rails (between the two notches) are jacking points. The rest of the frame rail is thin enough to buckle.

I couldn't believe how I have to do it with my Insight:  I have to jack up a whole side of the car, from a middle point, put a jack stand under the front (for oil change) and then do the other side.  The last time I wanted to do an inspection and I had the whole car up on 4 jack stands. 

That car doesn't have enough clearance to be able to drive it up ramps.

They make longer ramps (search for "sports car ramps" or "race ramps"). Otherwise, try creative arrangements of 2x8s along with the ramps.

[Spork]

When I did the oil change about a week ago on my 2002 Hyundai Accent, it did indeed have frame rails, upon which any point is a jack point.

Not true: only certain spots on each end of the frame rails (between the two notches) are jacking points. The rest of the frame rail is thin enough to buckle.

I'm not sure if that was aimed at the Accent in particular or cars in general.  I can assure you: some cars have big ass frame members that run the length of the car -- particularly those with no unibody.  I know nothing about the Accent in particular. 

[Jack]

When I did the oil change about a week ago on my 2002 Hyundai Accent, it did indeed have frame rails, upon which any point is a jack point.

Not true: only certain spots on each end of the frame rails (between the two notches) are jacking points. The rest of the frame rail is thin enough to buckle.

I'm not sure if that was aimed at the Accent in particular or cars in general.  I can assure you: some cars have big ass frame members that run the length of the car -- particularly those with no unibody.  I know nothing about the Accent in particular.

Both: I used to own a 2003 Accent and know specifically that you're only supposed to jack at the marked points, and I have another vehicle where a chunk of the "frame rail" (actually, unibody pinch weld) is a bit mangled because I tried to jack it up in the wrong place.

Also, in 2015 there are very few non-unibody cars left (other than pickup trucks, of course).

[Spork]

When I did the oil change about a week ago on my 2002 Hyundai Accent, it did indeed have frame rails, upon which any point is a jack point.

Not true: only certain spots on each end of the frame rails (between the two notches) are jacking points. The rest of the frame rail is thin enough to buckle.

I'm not sure if that was aimed at the Accent in particular or cars in general.  I can assure you: some cars have big ass frame members that run the length of the car -- particularly those with no unibody.  I know nothing about the Accent in particular.

Both: I used to own a 2003 Accent and know specifically that you're only supposed to jack at the marked points, and I have another vehicle where a chunk of the "frame rail" (actually, unibody pinch weld) is a bit mangled because I tried to jack it up in the wrong place.

Also, in 2015 there are very few non-unibody cars left (other than pickup trucks, of course).

Mine's a 1975.  1/4"  steel frame welded into about a 2 inch box.  (The original quote that dropped out of this said "old cars".)

It's been jacked at almost every point from nose to tail since I've had it (and that's been 32 years.)

[Racer X]

Harbor Fright

I hope that was intentional.  I laughed.

It was intentional.  When it comes to tools, I can be very anti-Mustachian.

[Chris22]

I do mean it literally.  I know people who have had vehicles fall off ramps before, fortunately not damaging them or the vehicle (much), and a good set of jackstands is more stable than ramps.  Plus there's approach angle issues for ramps on a lot of vehicles.

I don't use ramps, have never owned a set, and never intend to own a set.

How does a car fall off of a ramp?  If it's on there correctly, it can no more fall off of your driveway than fall off a ramp. 



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