Electric Tank Water Heater Replacement

[ria1024]

I've got an electric water heater with a 80 gallon tank that needs to be replaced this spring.  I'm trying to figure out the best / least expensive option for replacing it; it seems like there should be something better than another electric tank model out there, but I'm not sure what it is for my circumstances.

The available utilities at the house are electric and propane; natural gas is not available at my house.  There isn't a good spot to install solar; the house is shaded by a number of lovely large trees, which I don't want to remove (I don't own any air conditioners, and want to keep it that way).

The current water heater is installed in the basement utility room, and there is no other obvious location for it. 

The water being heated is well water, and it comes out of the ground at maybe 50 degrees in the summer, more like 35-40 in the winter.

Options I've considered:

• Install another electric tank water heater: the easy choice.  I could handle the installation myself.
  
• Install an on-demand electric water heater:  I haven't seen very good reviews for these, especially when you need a 70 degree temperature rise to get the water up to a nice hot 105 for showers.  Lots of complaints about water not getting warm enough, especially under high loads.
• Install several smaller on-demand electric water heaters at the various locations hot water is used:  I could probably get away with three: kitchen, upstairs bathroom, downstairs bathroom / laundry room.  However, it looks like anything which could handle my water temperature requirements would be expensive, bulky, and require a dedicated 240V electric line be run for it (possible, but non-trivial).
• Install an on-demand propane water heater:  These get better reviews, but the current utility room has no vents, and no good way to install one.  It's mostly underground with 2-3 feet exposed above grade; you'd have to run the vent out the back wall and up the side of the house until it was venting above the roof line 15-20 feet up.
• Install a hybrid electric / heat pump:  The basement is heated to a balmy 50-55 degrees with electric heat from October through May, and gets up to 70 degrees at most in the summertime.  I'm having trouble convincing myself that a heat pump will really do well in that environment.

So those are my complainypants excuses for why I'm currently planning to get another electric tank model, and live with the electric bill from it.  Can anyone see something I've missed?

[zolotiyeruki]

Unless the venting requirements are different for a propane heater vs a natural gas one (and I doubt they are), you don't need to run the vent all the way above the roof line, assuming the water heater has an inducer blower.  You'd just need to run it out your wall and make sure the inlet/outlet are pointing the right directions.

[ria1024]

Unless the venting requirements are different for a propane heater vs a natural gas one (and I doubt they are), you don't need to run the vent all the way above the roof line, assuming the water heater has an inducer blower.  You'd just need to run it out your wall and make sure the inlet/outlet are pointing the right directions.

The issue is that going out the wall would put it about 1 foot above grade, where small children could touch it, squirrels could stuff nuts in it, and the snow will cover it for a couple months of the year.  I haven't been able to find any instructions or approved vent diagrams that show a line going out a wall, having an 90 degree turn, going up 5 feet, and then another 90 degree turn to aim the vent away from the house.

[trammatic]

I have the heat pump water heater, and it does work all winter long.  I don't know if there are still any existing tax credits for installation, but I got mine for about the same price as a tank model, all-in.  It has a "smart" mode on it where it will use the electric coils in times of high demand and the heat pump when there is more time to warm up.  Also, in the summer, it doubles as a dehumidifier.  You do have to install a condensate drain line for it.

[zolotiyeruki]

Unless the venting requirements are different for a propane heater vs a natural gas one (and I doubt they are), you don't need to run the vent all the way above the roof line, assuming the water heater has an inducer blower.  You'd just need to run it out your wall and make sure the inlet/outlet are pointing the right directions.

The issue is that going out the wall would put it about 1 foot above grade, where small children could touch it, squirrels could stuff nuts in it, and the snow will cover it for a couple months of the year.  I haven't been able to find any instructions or approved vent diagrams that show a line going out a wall, having an 90 degree turn, going up 5 feet, and then another 90 degree turn to aim the vent away from the house.

In our house, the water heater inlet and exhaust lines aren't more than a couple feet above grade, so take it for what it's worth.  The exhaust isn't dangerous to kids or animals at all--it's warm at most.  You can also get screens to prevent critters from making a home in it.

[QajakBoy]

Sounds as if you live in a relatively cold northern climate - so, for you a heat-pump water heater probably doesn't make sense.  I have a heat-pump water heater, and it makes sense for us, but I live in Virginia.  And the dehumidifying aspect of the heat pump water heater also works well for me.  It does make noise, but I only hear it If I go down to the basement where it is located.
An electric tankless on-demand water heater rarely makes sense.  They require lots of electricity and the price to upgrade your electircal service panel would never be recovered by any energy savings. 
Installing several smaller on-demand electric water heaters would be slightly better but would still require adding electrical service to each location and installing them in a way that isn't a detraction.
Propane is not cheap so I doubt that a propane tankless water heater would make sense.
I think that you are left with replacing the current electric water heater with another.  Try to get one with the most insulation (or add additional insulation yourself) to reduce standby losses.

[NathanP]

I agree that a traditional tank electric heater makes sense in this situation.

One thing to consider is downsizing the unit. 80 gallons seems very large to me unless you have demand for multiple showers, a dishwasher and laundry at the same time. Downsizing may not save much electricity month-to-month, but you could at least decrease your upfront cost. If you do have significant demand for hot water look for ways to decrease this (cold water to wash clothes, replace shower heads, etc..). Although well water is nearly free, decreasing hot water usage could save quite a bit on your monthly electric bill.

[zolotiyeruki]

Is it more expensive to heat water using propane than electricity?

[ria1024]

I agree that a traditional tank electric heater makes sense in this situation.

One thing to consider is downsizing the unit. 80 gallons seems very large to me unless you have demand for multiple showers, a dishwasher and laundry at the same time. Downsizing may not save much electricity month-to-month, but you could at least decrease your upfront cost. If you do have significant demand for hot water look for ways to decrease this (cold water to wash clothes, replace shower heads, etc..). Although well water is nearly free, decreasing hot water usage could save quite a bit on your monthly electric bill.

The nice thing about the current setup with 80 gallons is that the water heater is on a switch so it only runs from 3-5 am, when electricity is less expensive.  Then 80 gallons of hot water lasts us through the day with any sort of normal usage (and I can override it if we want to do several loads of hot water laundry, and the dishes, and take 2-3 showers in one day).  I'll take a look at the cost savings for a smaller tank size, but I don't know if it will be worth it.

[Reynolds531]

I agree on the conventional electric being best. Good idea on the timer, and I would also have a fire rated blanket on it.

I read somewhere the standby losses are about 60 watts on a big electric heater. I would simply concentrate on cutting that loss. Propane is volatile, and other options have up front costs that would put me off.

[Le Poisson]

We did the math in a previous house. Gas vs electric, Tank vs tankless, renting vs owning. We did not consider a heat pump.

Similar to you, we felt we could install an electric on our own, but would need a plumber for a gas hookup. Water hookups are a non-issue. I can solder plumbing pipes.

We found that over 5 years, the electric tank came out ahead with all costs included. I think the water heater we looked at was just under $400. Beyond 5 years, the gas tank, rental came out ahead. Fuel costs and costs of tanks have likely changed since then.

Were I you, I would call the local utility and just ask what the rental tanks cost. Then build a spreadsheet.

[Mr Fixit]

I measured the stand-by losses on my electric tank.  It works out to between $2 and $3 of electricity a month.

[Longwaytogo]

I have been happy with my electric heat pump water heater for about 2 years. As previous poster mentioned with credits from fed tax and local utility it was equal to or cheaper than traditional electric.

[JLee]

I have been happy with my electric heat pump water heater for about 2 years. As previous poster mentioned with credits from fed tax and local utility it was equal to or cheaper than traditional electric.

I think I missed all the tax credits - I'm not able to find any credits for water heaters now, just $100 for variable speed pool pumps. :(