Easy updates to do for condo to prep for sale

[jeromedawg]

Hey guys

By now you've probably seen some of my threads about fixing, repainting, etc. I figure it's best perhaps to start from square 1 and ask for more comprehensive advice on maybe what things we really should be focusing on most. To give some background, our condo unit was built in 1989 and a lot of the original furnishings are still in place... off the top of my head: tile floors, fireplace tiling, kitchen cabinets, dated appliances (not stainless), all carpet except tiled floors and kitchen, original style baseboards, original limited recessed lighting (first generation cans), original vanities/mirrors/lightning/tubs/wall tiling in the bathrooms...

Currently we have just started undertaking repainting of the cabinets to all white. Hopefully this is a good move that opens the kitchen up a little more.

I also went around and patched up as many superficial cracks that I could find, but still need to do more of that around the place.

Are there any other things you guys would recommend? Or of the items I listed, are there certain ones I absolutely *should* do, like pulling all the carpet out and installing flooring? And are there certain things better left to a contractor or handyman to do if we don't quite have the capacity as DIYers? 

[chouchouu]

I think it depends on what type of place you have and the market. I know in Sydney its often recommended not to renovate before selling as unrenovated places can get a good price at auction since people are really into renovating here. There is also personal taste to consider, for example many prospective buyers don't like another person's taste in kitchens. I suggest speaking to the real estate agent regarding what they suggest doing.

[jeromedawg]

I think it depends on what type of place you have and the market. I know in Sydney its often recommended not to renovate before selling as unrenovated places can get a good price at auction since people are really into renovating here. There is also personal taste to consider, for example many prospective buyers don't like another person's taste in kitchens. I suggest speaking to the real estate agent regarding what they suggest doing.

Thanks. Yea our RE Agent suggested focusing on the kitchen and flooring perhaps. Appliances initially he said stainless steel but those may not be worthwhile as much as doing the flooring (hardwood throughout the entire place). Flooring is a huge undertaking though IMHO. He was saying that he thinks in the area I'm in (Orange County, CA) most buyers are looking for turnkey. I'm in a city (Irvine) where a lot of new developments have been popping up so I think prospective buyers want to see that sort of thing in any home they are looking at.

Obviously one big one, which I failed to mention initially, and that coincides with Mustachianism too is decluttering and cleaning up hahaha. That's definitely something we are going to start working on today. Konmarie!

[Freedomin5]

If I were to pick one thing from your list, I would pick flooring. You know how your first reaction was “it’s such a huge undertaking”? Well, that’s going to be the prospective buyer’s reaction too, which may prevent them from choosing your place.

And of course, deep clean your entire place and declutter declutter declutter. It should look nice but impersonal.

[Papa bear]

Are you flipping this place, or just selling one you’ve lived in?

What is the expected sale value now vs the after repair value if you complete the updates?

A 1:1 cost to sale is not worth it.  You will have time and headaches involved.  I would work at a minimum 2:3 ratio on cost to return or a 1:2.

So, if you are going to pay for new floors, hardwoods you said all around, you’re looking at a tear out, haul away of old, material, installation, and probably some trim work.  Maybe in the 8-12/sf range depending on the floor (you could get crazy and end up in the 15-20/sf if you go fancy).

Will you see that return?  If you will, by all means go for it.  If you don’t, this isn’t worth your time.

Make sure the house is clean, painted a neutral color, smells good, and potentially lightly staged. 


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[jeromedawg]

Are you flipping this place, or just selling one you’ve lived in?

What is the expected sale value now vs the after repair value if you complete the updates?

A 1:1 cost to sale is not worth it.  You will have time and headaches involved.  I would work at a minimum 2:3 ratio on cost to return or a 1:2.

So, if you are going to pay for new floors, hardwoods you said all around, you’re looking at a tear out, haul away of old, material, installation, and probably some trim work.  Maybe in the 8-12/sf range depending on the floor (you could get crazy and end up in the 15-20/sf if you go fancy).

Will you see that return?  If you will, by all means go for it.  If you don’t, this isn’t worth your time.

Make sure the house is clean, painted a neutral color, smells good, and potentially lightly staged. 


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Selling the one we've lived in. My realtor doesn't want to give exact numbers and keeps telling me it's hard to say how much we would get back with the market in our area - generally speaking though, he knows that most buyers want things turn-key. As far as how much *more* they'd pay for it, he can't say. Right now he's saying we could list our place at $575k at the lowest and expect to get multiple offers on it possibly up to $5k over that. When I started asking him how much updating the kitchen and floors would be, he couldn't really confirm an amount. I asked if it would push things up to $600k in doing just flooring and kitchen alone and he seemed iffy about that though. Also, he was estimating installation of new flooring throughout the new home would cost somewhere around $4200 for 1100-1200sq ft - based on your estimates that seems pretty low... unless he wasn't factoring in the demo and haul-away?

So with your ratios, that would translate to 150-200% returns right? And working for a 100% return for your money isn't worth while (which I agree with, unless we did this long ago [to where we got to 'enjoy and use'] perhaps)

[mavendrill]

Your realtor might not say that stuff, but you need to know and can find it.

Use something like Zillow or realtor.com, find similar listings both with the upgrades you are thinking about and without, and start a spreadsheet.
How long were they on the market?
What was list price?
What was sale price?
Price/sq ft?
Which ways are most similar to your place, which different?
How does neighborhood compare, etc...

Quantify each of these.  2 - 4 hours work should get you a sense of the market. 

Generally, most upgrades prior to sale have minimal impact on price but extensive impact on time on market.  I understand socal is insane, so it may not apply.

[Papa bear]

Are you flipping this place, or just selling one you’ve lived in?

What is the expected sale value now vs the after repair value if you complete the updates?

A 1:1 cost to sale is not worth it.  You will have time and headaches involved.  I would work at a minimum 2:3 ratio on cost to return or a 1:2.

So, if you are going to pay for new floors, hardwoods you said all around, you’re looking at a tear out, haul away of old, material, installation, and probably some trim work.  Maybe in the 8-12/sf range depending on the floor (you could get crazy and end up in the 15-20/sf if you go fancy).

Will you see that return?  If you will, by all means go for it.  If you don’t, this isn’t worth your time.

Make sure the house is clean, painted a neutral color, smells good, and potentially lightly staged. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Selling the one we've lived in. My realtor doesn't want to give exact numbers and keeps telling me it's hard to say how much we would get back with the market in our area - generally speaking though, he knows that most buyers want things turn-key. As far as how much *more* they'd pay for it, he can't say. Right now he's saying we could list our place at $575k at the lowest and expect to get multiple offers on it possibly up to $5k over that. When I started asking him how much updating the kitchen and floors would be, he couldn't really confirm an amount. I asked if it would push things up to $600k in doing just flooring and kitchen alone and he seemed iffy about that though. Also, he was estimating installation of new flooring throughout the new home would cost somewhere around $4200 for 1100-1200sq ft - based on your estimates that seems pretty low... unless he wasn't factoring in the demo and haul-away?

So with your ratios, that would translate to 150-200% returns right? And working for a 100% return for your money isn't worth while (which I agree with, unless we did this long ago [to where we got to 'enjoy and use'] perhaps)

1100-1200 sf for 4200 would pay for the materials, for a decent laminate or vinyl or for your lower end hardwood.  Remember, it’s not just the price /sf for the floor, you typically have backing and installation materials.

Done properly, you’re going to pull up your base molding, tear up all the old floor down to the subfloor so it’s all starting at the same level, reinstalling new floor, then reinstalling old or new purchased base trim.  My 8-12/sf is an estimate in Ohio.  For SoCal? Maybe 12-18 /sf for labor differences? 

If you’re going to drop 20k for floors, your house better sell for 30k more. 

Your realtor wants you to put money in so it sells fast and easy. They want their easy commission.  Make them pull some comps and give you some real numbers here.  Or just sell the thing fsbo, because your current person isn’t doing you any favors.


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[jeromedawg]

Your realtor might not say that stuff, but you need to know and can find it.

Use something like Zillow or realtor.com, find similar listings both with the upgrades you are thinking about and without, and start a spreadsheet.
How long were they on the market?
What was list price?
What was sale price?
Price/sq ft?
Which ways are most similar to your place, which different?
How does neighborhood compare, etc...

Quantify each of these.  2 - 4 hours work should get you a sense of the market. 

Generally, most upgrades prior to sale have minimal impact on price but extensive impact on time on market.  I understand socal is insane, so it may not apply.

Three directly comparable units (same floorplans essentially) have sold in my community in the past year for over $600k but 2018 was apparently a pretty hot year to sell. It seems like the market has been declining since. The last one that sold across the street from us went for $610k but it took like 4 months to sell (and it was pretty well-updated too from the pics). The ones earlier in 2018 took 1-2 months to sell each.

[englishteacheralex]

I'm not a real estate expert, but I do own a mediocre condo built in 1972 as my primary residence, so you know--lots of authority here.

My two cents? Doing renovations to get the place to sell for an unknown higher price in the near future doesn't make sense to me unless you really know what you're doing in a number of ways.

If you're a contractor, a real estate agent, or a real estate investor who has some kind of insider information or access to discounted renovations for some reason, then yeah, maybe it would be worthwhile.

Otherwise, I have a hard time believing that time-consuming and expensive renovations are really going to yield a worthwhile ROI.

Are you in a time crunch? Why not put it on the market as is, cleaning it and doing minor fixes, and see what happens before you invest the time, hassle, and money into redoing the floors?

[jeromedawg]

I'm not a real estate expert, but I do own a mediocre condo built in 1972 as my primary residence, so you know--lots of authority here.

My two cents? Doing renovations to get the place to sell for an unknown higher price in the near future doesn't make sense to me unless you really know what you're doing in a number of ways.

If you're a contractor, a real estate agent, or a real estate investor who has some kind of insider information or access to discounted renovations for some reason, then yeah, maybe it would be worthwhile.

Otherwise, I have a hard time believing that time-consuming and expensive renovations are really going to yield a worthwhile ROI.

Are you in a time crunch? Why not put it on the market as is, cleaning it and doing minor fixes, and see what happens before you invest the time, hassle, and money into redoing the floors?

Good call - I think we may end up just doing that. Maybe get the carpet professionally cleaned and patch/paint where needed.

BTW: I just found another listing of a place with the same floorplan that's been on the market for 64 days - it's highly upgraded but they're asking for an insanely high amount: $670k. Considering no other units have sold for more than $620k in the past year, that's just crazy.

[Car Jack]

I still remember when we were looking for our first house.  Our limit was $125k and real estate agents seemed unable to stay at the limit.  After a showing of a $300k house, I restated what our income was and the agent responded "Oh, you really do have a limit of $125k".  Well, duh.  So anything you do to upgrade your condo will move the price up and keep out people looking at lower priced units.

Another consideration is who is going to buy it.  My mom's looking for a condo right now and looked at one recently.  The owners had replaced the carpeting throughout the place with hard wood.  Very nice.  But for my mom, in her 80's, she would have wall to wall carpet installed over these expensive floors to avoid slipping.  So that money spent on expensive flooring was wasted on her.

I think the idea of white painted cabinets is a good one.  Any room with dark walls also need to be repainted a light color.  Light makes rooms look bigger.  In addition, you do want to stage the place with furniture and household items as if it's being lived in.  But take the clutter, box it up and move it away or get rid of it.  The everyday advice applies....you should be able to put a hand between any 2 cans in the cupboard or between clothes in the closet.  This gives the appearance of ample storage.  No knick nacks (that's the definition of clutter) and try to replace any personal pictures with things more neutral.  You can do a lot for not much more than $zero. 

You don't want to spend $20k to get only $20k more in a sale.  You're paying the % to a real estate agent, so that's a net loss to you.