The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Do it Yourself Discussion! => Topic started by: dragoncar on August 15, 2016, 07:51:31 PM
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I've got a small drywall job -- perhaps 300 sq ft. I'm not scared of learning new things, but I'm also not scared of paying someone to do a tedious job. A bunch of stuff I've read online says that drywall finishing is something that should usually be hired out. For such a small job is it worth buying the tools and learning it myself or would you just pay someone? I assume I'll pay a premium because tradespeople hate small jobs.
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It's not difficult to do, but it is messy and dirty.
Tools would be pretty cheap; a mud pan, 6" knife, 10" knife, utility knife, sanding pole & sanding block.
Newbies tend to put too much mud on per coat, requiring way more sanding than necessary. Watch a few youtubes and you can figure it out.
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Agree with Fishindude.
The hardest part (for me) is actually buying the drywall, getting it home and hauling it in to the room you are working on. If it is around a corner and up the stairs ... it's a pain in the ass.
The pros do it faster than I do. They can generally do it in fewer coats. They require very little or no sanding. But I think the end result is very similar. I've done several one-room jobs. They all turned out fine.
My only suggestion: I've had much better luck as a DIY'er with fiberglass mesh tape than with paper tape. It seems more forgiving.
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I enjoy drywalling.
Cutting the drywall can be a little annoying when you have to make holes for lights on the ceiling or for electrical boxes, but screwing it up on the wall is kinda fun. It transforms a room very quickly. Mudding is also kinda fun to do. Sanding is the only part I don't like - miserable, messy, and terrible.
The beauty of getting good at drywalling is that it means you also become good at drywall patching. I don't know if there's something wrong with me, but I am forever knocking holes in and needing to patch over bits of drywall. That is a useful skill to have.
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I'm an avid DIYer, and I started to hire out my bigger drywall jobs. I've realized that the pros can do a much better, cleaner, and faster job than I can. However, small projects I still do myself.
For you? There's no better time to learn. Jump in and see how you do. You'll always have the tools handy for repairs or small projects. Only after you've done a few can you make the call on DIY or pay the pro for future work.
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It is dusty and my drywall jobs never look like the professionals. Also, if you have ceilings to do, it is a pain without the lifts.
I would give it out. Especially if this is in a high visibility area.
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Drywall is truly a PITA. I did a whole room once, never again. Small patch jobs I can do myself, but if we're talking big sheets forget it. I would hire it out.
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It is dusty and my drywall jobs never look like the professionals. Also, if you have ceilings to do, it is a pain without the lifts.
I would give it out. Especially if this is in a high visibility area.
To do a one man ceiling install, google "drywall deadman". It can be as simple as a 2x4 with a 1x4 scrap nailed on top of it. For a 4x8 sheet, I usually use 2 of them. I get one in place with the drywall "mostly up there somewhere". Then you wiggle the second one in and get it straightened out.
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It is dusty and my drywall jobs never look like the professionals. Also, if you have ceilings to do, it is a pain without the lifts.
I would give it out. Especially if this is in a high visibility area.
X2 I do a lot of DIY but drywall is my least favorite. A skilled dry wall pro bangs in out better & faster. That alone saves my serenity which is priceless. I'm older now though maybe that explains it :)
Drywall is truly a PITA. I did a whole room once, never again. Small patch jobs I can do myself, but if we're talking big sheets forget it. I would hire it out.
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Just an observation, but it is funny how folks who promote riding a bike to the grocery and ten miles to work every day, push mowing lawns, hand raking vs leaf blowers, going without air conditioning, etc. think that a simple 300 SF drywall job is too difficult, time consuming or messy to take on.
I'd drywall every day, before I started riding a bicycle to work :)
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If you never plan on spackeling ever again, I'd sub it out. If you are up for a learning experience, 300 square feet isn't a huge commitment. It will take a lot longer than you expect.
A few tips:
1. Get your drywall to minimize seams. If you have an 8x11 wall, get two 12'x4' sheets (assuming you can get them into room.
2. Green lid is setting compound. Use this for your first coat (aka fire taping or bedding coat). This stuff does not sand well, so get:
3. Blue lid is for 2nd and 3rd (and touch up) coats.
4. As far as timing, I'd expect one day for hanging drywall and for applying the first coat. 1st coat will dry pretty quickly, so you can possible squeeze 2nd coat into that first day. 2nd and 3rd coat will take 24-48 hours to dry.
5. After the 3rd coat, you should be able to sand. If everything looks good after sanding, apply a coat of primer/drywall sealer. Once primed, you'll be able to see any small touchups that are needed.
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I do my own 300 sq.ft sections, if not in a prime location where it needs to match the surrounding area, like a front entrance leading up a vaulted stairway...
Bedrooms, garage, kitchen ceiling (with flat paint and track lighting to obscure the "errors" after dropped ceiling light removed).. easy.
300 sq.ft is about my limit, though. We definitely hired out for larger jobs, and it is so worth it. The professional crews are very fast, excellent quality, and compared to other handywork, cheaper by the hour. Cheaper here than painters, even.
If you have the extra time, just adding more and more mud and sanding it all down to nothing with huge piles of dust, will make the work turn out well for the beginner. No glossy paints though!
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I will also add: Texture hides a load of mistakes. I'm not sure what style you are trying to match or what your preference is, but I like a nice light knockdown. It looks nice and it really does hide a shit ton of mistakes. It's not particularly hard to match an existing knockdown, either. Take a spare sheet of drywall and try it until you get a nice match. Once you have the "formula" down... it is pretty easy.
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Thanks, it seems pretty split maybe I should have added a poll! I will have to match a light knockdown pattern, and will have to work High up. I'm guessing it's a wash between renting/buying scaffolding for myself and paying extra for someone to work high and bring their own. There would also be a lot of corners, it's not all flat- maybe 40 corners? It's also pretty visible but the area already has some poorly matching renovation work.
Not really sure how any of that changes the equation, besides making it equivalently a bigger job than the nominal 300sq ft. What would you expect this to cost if I hire out? Some estimators put it around $1k?
I love tools, but I'm worried about accumulating too many just like kitchen unit askers,
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If it is high up, you may can ignore my advice on using a deadman. I suspect you can do that on top of a scaffold... but that might just be the complicating factor that makes me want a drywall lift. Still do-able if you can find a lift that goes that high... but you may be running against the cost to rent vs cost to hire line.
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I DIY'd our first place and to be honest I'd never do it again. The savings were minimal as I had to hire people to do stuff I couldn't. The ikea kitchen was an absolute nightmare 65 flat pack boxes, than you get nickled and dimes to death on all the small stuff. Anyways shortly after moving in we got relocated so we rented it out. Fast foward a decade and we're moving back in (good bye landlords!!!!!) we decided to renovate the whole place. This time I'm out sourced the whole job and it looks a million times better.
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It's high but no horizontal (ceiling) sheets. Was thinking I could just screw some handles to the sheets for maneuverability and patch the holes later.
It's looking like I really just need to put in the work to get some quotes on this and make a gut call on my time vs hiring out. Sounds like I can be expected to have good quality if I take my sweet time or am willing to redo parts I mess up, but it may be better to just get it all finished quickly. I probably can't work with the 20 min compounds
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Thanks, it seems pretty split maybe I should have added a poll! I will have to match a light knockdown pattern, and will have to work High up. I'm guessing it's a wash between renting/buying scaffolding for myself and paying extra for someone to work high and bring their own. There would also be a lot of corners, it's not all flat- maybe 40 corners? It's also pretty visible but the area already has some poorly matching renovation work.
Not really sure how any of that changes the equation, besides making it equivalently a bigger job than the nominal 300sq ft. What would you expect this to cost if I hire out? Some estimators put it around $1k?
I love tools, but I'm worried about accumulating too many just like kitchen unit askers,
I hate high up drywall....corners take me a while to do too... I reverse my other post and say to hire it out.
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Thanks, it seems pretty split maybe I should have added a poll! I will have to match a light knockdown pattern, and will have to work High up. I'm guessing it's a wash between renting/buying scaffolding for myself and paying extra for someone to work high and bring their own. There would also be a lot of corners, it's not all flat- maybe 40 corners? It's also pretty visible but the area already has some poorly matching renovation work.
Not really sure how any of that changes the equation, besides making it equivalently a bigger job than the nominal 300sq ft. What would you expect this to cost if I hire out? Some estimators put it around $1k?
I love tools, but I'm worried about accumulating too many just like kitchen unit askers,
I hate high up drywall....corners take me a while to do too... I reverse my other post and say to hire it out.
Would you hire it all out or just the finish work? I think I can get the scaffolding for around $300, which would be useful for other home projects, so maybe I could hang it myself? But then I'd need to rent a truck probably to get the drywall home unless I cut it down in the HD parking lot.
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Thanks, it seems pretty split maybe I should have added a poll! I will have to match a light knockdown pattern, and will have to work High up. I'm guessing it's a wash between renting/buying scaffolding for myself and paying extra for someone to work high and bring their own. There would also be a lot of corners, it's not all flat- maybe 40 corners? It's also pretty visible but the area already has some poorly matching renovation work.
Not really sure how any of that changes the equation, besides making it equivalently a bigger job than the nominal 300sq ft. What would you expect this to cost if I hire out? Some estimators put it around $1k?
I love tools, but I'm worried about accumulating too many just like kitchen unit askers,
I hate high up drywall....corners take me a while to do too... I reverse my other post and say to hire it out.
Would you hire it all out or just the finish work? I think I can get the scaffolding for around $300, which would be useful for other home projects, so maybe I could hang it myself? But then I'd need to rent a truck probably to get the drywall home unless I cut it down in the HD parking lot.
It is such as small area, that the cost difference will be minor, and your hassle is contracting any part of it in the first place. In for a penny, in for a pound... I would hire it all and have done with.
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The carpenters who helped me build my house did the drywall and I did some sanding and taping. It was probably the stupidest decision I made. It took us several weeks (yeah, weeks) to do it ourselves, whereas the pros could have knocked it out in a few days. And, now it looks shitty--you can see the seams in a lot of places. A friend asked me if she and her husband should try to drywall their basement themselves, and I said, don't do it, you will get divorced. I would never do it again, but that's just me. A smaller project might be okay. Good luck! I would say have fun, but you won't, although you might feel satisfied when it's done.
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Drywall isn't that hard to learn.
Biggest issue for me is the weight of the individual sheets. Ceilings and 2 story high rooms are much harder than regular walls.
Tools are cheap. Materials are pretty cheap. If you totally botch the job then either try again or hire it out.
I would advise doing it yourself.
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We did everything on building our house ourselves. We even rented the jackhammer that we needed to hammer out the bedrock to get the foundation in place. We hired out the drywall, and I'm still happy about that today.
I'd patch a hole myself, but I'd hire out a room in a heartbeat.
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DH hangs the sheet rock and I do the mudding and sanding. I have done 7 rooms in various houses. It took me forever in the beginning. Now I am now somewhat faster. First thing was to plan out where the joints were going to be. And to get DH not to cheap out on the sheet rock. He was initially using up some sheets and leaving me with joints that didn't have the channel for building up a layer of compound. I have figured out the sanding part - don't do too much of it. I only sand at the end. I am not yet good at inside corners for some reason. Second to last room was a bedroom in our basement. It was a very complicated room with bulk heads and recesses and nooks. It had old walls and new walls and not quite perfect corners. Took me the whole summer because I couldn't work over my head for the whole time it took to do a coat. Then DH thought he would help out by sanding all the compound back off. It was a tense weekend in our house. It now looks as good as a pro would do it according to a pro that checked it out after I was done. I am glad I have the skills because I too am often repairing holes. We hired a pro for the bathroom a long time ago and he did the whole room in two visits and charged us $300.00. But since then, getting someone to come and do a small job has been next to impossible and I can just putter away at it. It is a very satisfying type of job in my opinion.
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Well if I can get someone to do it for $300, I'll jump at that. I'm just worried it will be expensive in my location because we have a building boom going on, it's prime real estate season so people are trying to remodel houses for sale, and so on. Maybe I can hang the rock and my wife can live with that for a few months (not likely)
I was wondering if there's an easier way to do this. I've seen videos where people use a "magic trowel" to skim coat their walls to remove texture. They use a diluted mix of mud and basically squeegee it on. It takes multiple coats, but because each coat is really thin it's harder to mess up. Would something like this work for new drywall? I could just skim coat the entire wall with multiple coats. This won't help me with the corners much.
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Personally, I wouldn't skim coat the whole thing unless you're looking for a rustic look with heavy trowel marks. I say that because... that may very well be what you end up with. It's pretty easy to just hide the screw/nail holes and just hide the valley where the tape is.
For corners, get a dedicated corner knife. It makes life MUCH easier.
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Personally, I wouldn't skim coat the whole thing unless you're looking for a rustic look with heavy trowel marks. I say that because... that may very well be what you end up with. It's pretty easy to just hide the screw/nail holes and just hide the valley where the tape is.
For corners, get a dedicated corner knife. It makes life MUCH easier.
Are you familiar with the method I'm talking about? There shouldn't be heavy trowel marks since you are using a thin wet layer and a squeegee. But maybe I'm fallng or the marketing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkd9DaiEPU
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Personally, I wouldn't skim coat the whole thing unless you're looking for a rustic look with heavy trowel marks. I say that because... that may very well be what you end up with. It's pretty easy to just hide the screw/nail holes and just hide the valley where the tape is.
For corners, get a dedicated corner knife. It makes life MUCH easier.
Are you familiar with the method I'm talking about? There shouldn't be heavy trowel marks since you are using a thin wet layer and a squeegee. But maybe I'm fallng or the marketing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkd9DaiEPU
Nope. I wasn't.
Are you talking about skim coating some old icky drywall to cover up blemishes? Or are you talking about skim coating new drywall? I just wouldn't do that with new drywall, since it's already damn near perfect. The only "blemishes" are nails/screws/joints.
I'm skeptical about where they went over a tape joint in the video with a big glob of mud and smoothed it out with their "magic trowel". Drywall mud shrinks by design (which is why it takes multiple coats... you're filling in a shallower and shallower trough.) I also sort of think that magic trowel looks a lot like a squeegie. I always used a wide squeegie for doing knock down. You blast diluted mud onto the wall with a texture hopper in big blobs, wait a few minutes, then run over it with a squeegie.
But... someone always does figure out better ways to do things. Just because I am skeptical doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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Personally, I wouldn't skim coat the whole thing unless you're looking for a rustic look with heavy trowel marks. I say that because... that may very well be what you end up with. It's pretty easy to just hide the screw/nail holes and just hide the valley where the tape is.
For corners, get a dedicated corner knife. It makes life MUCH easier.
Are you familiar with the method I'm talking about? There shouldn't be heavy trowel marks since you are using a thin wet layer and a squeegee. But maybe I'm fallng or the marketing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkd9DaiEPU
Nope. I wasn't.
Are you talking about skim coating some old icky drywall to cover up blemishes? Or are you talking about skim coating new drywall? I just wouldn't do that with new drywall, since it's already damn near perfect. The only "blemishes" are nails/screws/joints.
I'm skeptical about where they went over a tape joint in the video with a big glob of mud and smoothed it out with their "magic trowel". Drywall mud shrinks by design (which is why it takes multiple coats... you're filling in a shallower and shallower trough.) I also sort of think that magic trowel looks a lot like a squeegie. I always used a wide squeegie for doing knock down. You blast diluted mud onto the wall with a texture hopper in big blobs, wait a few minutes, then run over it with a squeegie.
But... someone always does figure out better ways to do things. Just because I am skeptical doesn't mean it doesn't work.
No, it'll be new drywall. I was thinking about a combination of this Magic Trowel (here's another non-promotional video -- you can use a normal trowel too, supposedly... the "secret" is very thin layers and watered-down mud):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kAgc_b9fSU
and this idea of using veneer plaster instead of mud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzTvF9xO2cU
I was really leaning towards doing the veneer plaster, but there are two problems: (1) it's not for sale at my big box stores, so I'm not sure where to get it, and (2) I'm in earthquake country so I'm pretty sure it would end up cracking (even my drywall joints have a decent number of cracks). On the other hand, this kirk guy is in my area, so maybe it's fine to do the plaster veneer.
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So I got a quote for $1500 to hang tape finish and match texture. That's like $40 per approx. 3-ft long corner (there are no butt joints). Worth it? I actually already bought the drywall ($100 worth with a lot of wastage) and hung some of it... Think I did a decent job
1500 at a generous $100/HR means can I do this myself in 15 hours?
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Even if you had a friend help, I'd be amazed if you could hang, tape, finish, and texture match in 15 hours. Especially since you're apparently dealing with a cathedral ceiling. I like to drywall and mud, but haven't done one of those. I also have a hard time envisioning how you have 40 corners in just 300 sq ft.
Another tip I didn't see mentioned but did see many complaining about sanding and dust is DON'T SAND. :) Use a damp sponge. If you put on light coats it only takes 2-3 swipes per seam/corner and 1-2 swipes per screwhole between coats.
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Even if you had a friend help, I'd be amazed if you could hang, tape, finish, and texture match in 15 hours. Especially since you're apparently dealing with a cathedral ceiling. I like to drywall and mud, but haven't done one of those. I also have a hard time envisioning how you have 40 corners in just 300 sq ft.
Another tip I didn't see mentioned but did see many complaining about sanding and dust is DON'T SAND. :) Use a damp sponge. If you put on light coats it only takes 2-3 swipes per seam/corner and 1-2 swipes per screwhole between coats.
Well if o do it myself I can not sand. If I ask the contractors to no sand I assume my cost goes up
How about $50/HR and 30 hours?
I guess I will probably pay... Just think I might regret it in the end. Much prefer to know I did the job right
Ps it's like 5 cubbyhole things that I had to modify
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Bite the bullet and do it yourself. You will always have pride in that. I remodeled my house when I bought it 17+ years ago and to this day I admire all the bullnose corners I did. I agree with the sponge idea, definitely easy to do in fact you don't even have to do the light coats if you catch it at the right point during drying you can knock down a big ridge in a heartbeat.
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Bite the bullet and do it yourself. You will always have pride in that. I remodeled my house when I bought it 17+ years ago and to this day I admire all the bullnose corners I did. I agree with the sponge idea, definitely easy to do in fact you don't even have to do the light coats if you catch it at the right point during drying you can knock down a big ridge in a heartbeat.
At this point, I feel like I have to be talked into hiring this out. So many mixed responses.
If I do it myself, what methods do you suggest?
Three different compounds, two, or just one? (can you sponge the setting-type?)
Tape or paper faced metal beads?
Basically I'm looking for stuff I can get at the big box store. Would these two be good?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-18-lb-Fast-Set-90-Lite-Setting-Type-Joint-Compound-22167H/100320413
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-4-Gal-All-Purpose-Pre-Mixed-Joint-Compound-18720H/100320409
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Do you think you will be drywalling again in your future? If yes, this project will be a good one to start with.
My spouse and I have drywalled several projects together. For the last one, we bought a drywall lift and a hopper for corner bead. Because we are pretty sure there will be another project....
For previous projects, we hung all the walls, but hired out just to hang the ceilings. We taped and mudded ourselves.
Early on we mostly used fiberglass tape, but the paper tape (No Coat for outside corners) works great in the hopper. It went really pretty fast. First coat thinned green mud. Then blue, then topping compound for the final coat. Very thin coats and very little sanding. We bought a book and watched videos by Mike Bell. (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF922F46B1636F873) http://drywallschool.com/
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Do you think you will be drywalling again in your future? If yes, this project will be a good one to start with.
My spouse and I have drywalled several projects together. For the last one, we bought a drywall lift and a hopper for corner bead. Because we are pretty sure there will be another project....
For previous projects, we hung all the walls, but hired out just to hang the ceilings. We taped and mudded ourselves.
Early on we mostly used fiberglass tape, but the paper tape (No Coat for outside corners) works great in the hopper. It went really pretty fast. First coat thinned green mud. Then blue, then topping compound for the final coat. Very thin coats and very little sanding. We bought a book and watched videos by Mike Bell. (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF922F46B1636F873) http://drywallschool.com/
I already hung 1/5 of this job and it took a few hours. I already set up some scaffolding so it's not any harder than ground level at this point. I'm not lifting entire sheets overhead -- cutting them to size first and the lifting maybe 1/3 sheet. It's not physically hard... the hardest part so far is measuring, accurately cutting, and then shimming (I cracked some pieces early on because I screwed them down too tight over uneven framing).
My biggest concern with doing the taping/mudding myself is not the labor, it's the possibility that I will screw up the intersection with existing knockdown texture, it will look like crap, and to fix it I'd have to redo the entire wall
The only reason I sought these quotes is because they came highly recommended so I could be reasonably sure they would do the job better than me. If I'm taking a crap shoot with the pros doing a bad job, I'd rather just take the chance on myself
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At this point, I feel like I have to be talked into hiring this out. So many mixed responses.
If I do it myself, what methods do you suggest?
Three different compounds, two, or just one? (can you sponge the setting-type?)
Tape or paper faced metal beads?
Basically I'm looking for stuff I can get at the big box store. Would these two be good?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-18-lb-Fast-Set-90-Lite-Setting-Type-Joint-Compound-22167H/100320413
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-4-Gal-All-Purpose-Pre-Mixed-Joint-Compound-18720H/100320409
I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm of the "do it yourself" camp. I did my living room which has a vaulted ceiling with lots of angles, it was hard, but it wasn't that hard.
I am not an expert, but I like the wet sponge technique. It fixes a lot of sins pretty easily, it knocks down the high spots and fills in the low spots. You might have to sand at the end, but it is a time saver overall. At least for us amateurs.
Here's the main thing: Don't give yourself a timeline, don't be in a rush. Just let each step take the amount of time that each step naturally takes. There is no single step that requires some higher level of skill. You have to measure accurately. You have to cut accurately. You have to spread mud around, hopefully not too lumpy. You have to sand/sponge.
None of those steps by themselves are all that hard. Pain in the ass? Yes. Not fun? Possibly. But not hard.
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At this point, I feel like I have to be talked into hiring this out. So many mixed responses.
If you have the time, then by all means, do it yourself. But take your time rather than trying to finish in 30 hours or whatever.
Three different compounds, two, or just one? (can you sponge the setting-type?)
I normally use two. Regular joint compound to start and light to finish. I would not use the quick set ones on your first time out. If you do it should only be the first coat. Can't say how well it would sponge, but I'd guess it would be fine. I know sanding it is a real pain because it dries much harder than normal compound.
Tape or paper faced metal beads?
Tape for butts, which I think you said you don't have, and inside corners if you get them fit well. Otherwise I'd use the paper faced metal for both inside and outside corners. An inside corner knife makes things easier once you get used to it.
Basically I'm looking for stuff I can get at the big box store. Would these two be good?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-18-lb-Fast-Set-90-Lite-Setting-Type-Joint-Compound-22167H/100320413
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-4-Gal-All-Purpose-Pre-Mixed-Joint-Compound-18720H/100320409
If you go with the fast set get the slowest you can (120?). All purpose is fine. If they don't have light, mix in small amount of water for your final coat.
Your hardest task by far in my eyes will be duplicating the existing texture. That is an art. I'd hire that out unless you don't care if it doesn't really match. Practice on some scraps and see how you do.
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I would absolutely hire it out. $1500 is too much though especially if you bought the materials. That is an $900-1100 with them buying the materials!
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I can get more quotes, but I'm in an expensive area with a lot of bigger jobs available. Some people aren't even returning calls.
If I do find someone cheaper, they won't come highly recommended from a trusted source. I could call their references and inspect prior jobs. But honestly that adds up to a lot of legwork compared to just doing it. If I hire t out for $1000 and I'm not happy with the way it turns out, I'll kick myself for not just DIY
Which is why I lean toward DIY. I'll probably try to match it myself this weekend on scraps with what I can get at home depot
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I still vote to just do it yourself. Take your time, work slowly, take breaks when you get tired and don't hurry things. I'm sure it'll turn out great if you follow that advice.
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I already hung 1/5 of this job and it took a few hours. I already set up some scaffolding so it's not any harder than ground level at this point. I'm not lifting entire sheets overhead -- cutting them to size first and the lifting maybe 1/3 sheet. It's not physically hard... the hardest part so far is measuring, accurately cutting, and then shimming (I cracked some pieces early on because I screwed them down too tight over uneven framing).
If I understand this correctly... This means you have more joints to tape. And worse: it means more butt joints. Butt joints are much harder to hide and by their nature make a bit if a "hill". Bigger sheets == smoother. The big mcmansions now have 4x12 panels to try to minimize the butt joints.
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I already hung 1/5 of this job and it took a few hours. I already set up some scaffolding so it's not any harder than ground level at this point. I'm not lifting entire sheets overhead -- cutting them to size first and the lifting maybe 1/3 sheet. It's not physically hard... the hardest part so far is measuring, accurately cutting, and then shimming (I cracked some pieces early on because I screwed them down too tight over uneven framing).
If I understand this correctly... This means you have more joints to tape. And worse: it means more butt joints. Butt joints are much harder to hide and by their nature make a bit if a "hill". Bigger sheets == smoother. The big mcmansions now have 4x12 panels to try to minimize the butt joints.
No butt joints, just corners.
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Bite the bullet and do it yourself. You will always have pride in that. I remodeled my house when I bought it 17+ years ago and to this day I admire all the bullnose corners I did. I agree with the sponge idea, definitely easy to do in fact you don't even have to do the light coats if you catch it at the right point during drying you can knock down a big ridge in a heartbeat.
At this point, I feel like I have to be talked into hiring this out. So many mixed responses.
If I do it myself, what methods do you suggest?
Three different compounds, two, or just one? (can you sponge the setting-type?)
Tape or paper faced metal beads?
Basically I'm looking for stuff I can get at the big box store. Would these two be good?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-18-lb-Fast-Set-90-Lite-Setting-Type-Joint-Compound-22167H/100320413
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westpac-Materials-4-Gal-All-Purpose-Pre-Mixed-Joint-Compound-18720H/100320409
Sorry, I just now saw this. I would use the pre-mix. If you have deep trowel marks you can sponge them smooth after is starts drying. If you make a mistake you can let it dry more and scrape if off and start over. It's about being patient and not trying to do too much at one time.
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Just finished our basement, I hung drywall for all the ceilings and the walls of 1 of 3 rooms (800 sq ft) Hired out the rest and glad i did. Took the guy a week but now it's done, would have taken me weeks. Got quotes from 2k to 900. Look for a one man operation, aka no overhead, pay cash, 1/2 at 50% and 1/2 on completion.
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Should add I have a 4 yr old and an infant, do time is on short supply for us
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I finished hanging the drywall and installed corner beads last weekend. Now I'm on my second coat and it's not looking amazing (from far away it looks good but up close I have streaks but I was just trying to get it into the recesses). Still haven't done any sanding/sponging, so hopefully my technique will get better. So far I'm happy I did it myself. My initial guess was way off, it's only 200 sq ft.
I'll give more updates when it's done... I'm taking my time like you all suggested (first coat took more than 24 hours to dry)
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Sounds like it's going pretty well. Light sanding and a second coat should really fix up the streaks.
FWIW, I've had good luck adding a little water to thin out the premixed drywall compound. This lets it go on a bit thinner, so you might need more coats but seems to make it easier to get smoother application. YMMV.
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Last coat or two is where you get pickier. Not sure what you mean by streaks - small ridges or gouges? Make sure you clean your knife off every so often and don't let partially dried stuff get in your mud. If you didn't get any light compound, then thin it just a bit for last coat(s).
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The wife and I did our whole house.
Not difficult.. manhandling the sheets (I had up to 8*16ft sheets delivered and the guys carried it into the workspace) is the hardest part.
Use a lift to lift the sheets to the ceiling.
Taping and mudding not hard either.
You won't be as fast as the pros but then it will be lower cost..
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Last coat or two is where you get pickier. Not sure what you mean by streaks - small ridges or gouges? Make sure you clean your knife off every so often and don't let partially dried stuff get in your mud. If you didn't get any light compound, then thin it just a bit for last coat(s).
Yeah, little grooves. Thinning the mud in the last coat definitely helped. It's not something I can see from the ground, and I'll be adding texture on top anyways, but I'm a perfectionist so...
The widest knife I have is 6 in. I read somewhere that that's all you really need and I tend to agree after my last coat -- it's almost ready. Anyone think I should really go wider?
Where the new drywall meets the old texture, I'm getting ridges like repeating waves from the knife hitting the texture... any tips on handling that? I've found I can get rid of it by going perpendicular, but I don't know if that's "allowed" (I'm guessing in drywall, whatever works is allowed).
I have a corner knife but haven't been using it -- I have a paper faced inside corner bead and have been doing both sides at the same time. It's been leaving tiny ridges on the corners but it kinda looks good to me -- makes the corners looks super sharp. Maybe my last coat I'll hit it once with the corner knife what do you think?
Here it is:
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What's the texture? Sand? Orange peel? Other?
To smooth out our transitions between new and old, we rolled on very diluted mud mixed with primer. (think of it just like extra thick primer). The roller will blend it in nicely and fill in some of the ridges you're talking about.
Then you can add sand on top of that (or whatever other texture)
Buy a good 12" knife. You'll be glad you did. Comes in handy for skim coats, too.
We never used a corner knife.
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What's the texture? Sand? Orange peel? Other?
To smooth out our transitions between new and old, we rolled on very diluted mud mixed with primer. (think of it just like extra thick primer). The roller will blend it in nicely and fill in some of the ridges you're talking about.
Then you can add sand on top of that (or whatever other texture)
Buy a good 12" knife. You'll be glad you did. Comes in handy for skim coats, too.
We never used a corner knife.
Orange peel is my guess. I'm still trying to match it with the spray on stuff and scraps.
The job looked a lot worse in the light of day, but I did another coat and I think it's close now.
I plan to sponge sand the interface between old/new ... also read a tip that you can use a wet paintbrush.
Are you saying I should hit all the corners again with 12 inch or just use it for the knockdown?
Only issue I'm having now is that the paper on my metal corners is coming off as I scrape along it. Will sandpaper fix that? Am I pushing too hard during my scrapes?
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Yes, you're pushing too hard.
Try a light sanding and priming in a couple of areas. If there are things that bug you, go over it again with another thin coat, just where it needs it. That should answer your questions on whether your corners need another coat.
The 12" knife will help to blend all your transitions. You want to feather out pretty far. That's more challenging with a 6" knife. We have both a 10" and 12" knife. We use them both quite a bit.
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Yeah, I have 4", 6", 8" and 12" knives. I don't always use the 12", but sometimes it is really necessary. This is especially true of butt joints, otherwise you can get a noticeable hump there. The 12" knife feathers that hump way out.
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Looks great from here. I sheeted my entire basement, and am currently mudding and taping my garage. (Got bored one week where the weather cooled off.) No harm in adding more mud, and sanding it out if you have to. I used a sanding sponge in the garage - love it. So much less mess. I found an old tee shirt soaked in water worked as well for the most part. I'm happier with the parts I put more mud on and sanded down than the parts where I skimped on coats.
Looks like you've got a great handle on it though.
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Good work!
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I second the 12" blade. One pass with really wet mud angled to the left on all the joints and then when dry, another pass to the right and presto, no hump, virtually no sanding. It is also good for taking off ridges when the compound is nearly dry and eliminating more sanding.
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I agree on the 12" knife it makes life much easier.
I had not thought of the diluted mud mixed with primer idea.. Thats an excellent idea.. will def try that next time.
I am a fan of the corner knife too.. I just use the cheap plastic ones.
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It's looking good after sponge sanding so I'm not going to widen the joints. But I still got the 12" knife to do my knockdown... got some stuff in a can and I think it matches pretty well. This part is scary!
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Dragancar, You're doing great! Take a deep breath, and plunge in to the texture work. I'm sure you can do it, with everything that you have described that you have learned. In the future, friends will be asking you for your advice of how to do drywall work.
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It's looking good after sponge sanding so I'm not going to widen the joints. But I still got the 12" knife to do my knockdown... got some stuff in a can and I think it matches pretty well. This part is scary!
You can also just use a squeegie for knockdown. Nice and wide and you can attach it to a long pole.
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I made a closet under our staircase. The stairs are in two flights, anti-parallel to each other, with a large landing in the middle where you make a U-turn. There was originally a small coat closet under the upper flight, adjacent to the lower flight, but the closet only went back about 4 feet and I knew there was a lot of wasted space under the landing. So one year I bashed out the back wall of the closet, pulled one stud, re-framed it with additional headers and jack studs, then went to work finishing the inside space.
First order of business was to remove the construction debris, styrofoam cup, mcdonalds wrapper, and other garbage from this interior space. Yep, the builders really do leave their garbage inside your walls.
I finished the entire space including the rectangular space under the landing, plus the additional, low area under the first flight, with sloping ceiling under the stairs. Tons of space! Drywalled it all, which was a PITA because many of the pieces had to be cut in weird shapes and angles, and in the meantime I had to be mindful of the maximum dimensions of pieces that I could cut and still bring them through the closet and through two 90 degree turns into an increasingly confined space. Working for hours in this cave that was only high enough to kneel down in, it was a relief when the last piece of drywall went in, and I flicked on the switch to light up the little LED can light that I had installed in the ceiling, and beheld my new storage space.
I decided that screwing the drywall onto the walls (and adding corner beads where needed) was enough, so I vacuumed and put all the things in storage that we had meant to put in there, with drywalled though unfinished walls.
A year later, I decided that it was time to mud the walls and paint them, put in a floor and finish the space. So I hauled all the items back out, and got to work mudding and taping. Lessons learned from mudding:
1. You don't need as much mud as you think. I used up way too much mud on the back part, and when I had used up my second small bucket I had only one inside corner left to do. Not wanting to go back to the store and buy more mud, I looked around my garage and...:
2. Spackle is not an equivalent substitute for mud. Although I eventually got the tape to stick and coated it to look right, and it all sanded down and painted to look ok, I will never use spackle again as a substitute for mud.
3. A respirator mask and goggles are very helpful when sanding drywall mud in a tiny confined space. There is nowhere for the dust to disperse, so it just billows around in there and irritates you.
4. The more complicated your job is with the more edges and corners, the more PITA the entire process is. To include measuring and cutting various weird size and shape pieces; screwing them in; doing too many corner beads and inside corners; etc. Far better to take a look at the framing and re-frame as necessary to achieve more flat continuous walls.
5. A normal sized room has got to be WAY easier than a cramped confined space. Either my knees hurt from kneeling, or my knee joints from squatting, or my back from hunching over. Meanwhile my kids would walk right in and ask if this was the new secret room I was making for them....
6. All that said, it did NOT take nearly as long as I had feared. And it did not cost very much at all, the materials are cheap.
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I made a closet under our staircase. The stairs are in two flights, anti-parallel to each other, with a large landing in the middle where you make a U-turn. There was originally a small coat closet under the upper flight, adjacent to the lower flight, but the closet only went back about 4 feet and I knew there was a lot of wasted space under the landing. So one year I bashed out the back wall of the closet, pulled one stud, re-framed it with additional headers and jack studs, then went to work finishing the inside space.
First order of business was to remove the construction debris, styrofoam cup, mcdonalds wrapper, and other garbage from this interior space. Yep, the builders really do leave their garbage inside your walls.
I finished the entire space including the rectangular space under the landing, plus the additional, low area under the first flight, with sloping ceiling under the stairs. Tons of space! Drywalled it all, which was a PITA because many of the pieces had to be cut in weird shapes and angles, and in the meantime I had to be mindful of the maximum dimensions of pieces that I could cut and still bring them through the closet and through two 90 degree turns into an increasingly confined space. Working for hours in this cave that was only high enough to kneel down in, it was a relief when the last piece of drywall went in, and I flicked on the switch to light up the little LED can light that I had installed in the ceiling, and beheld my new storage space.
I decided that screwing the drywall onto the walls (and adding corner beads where needed) was enough, so I vacuumed and put all the things in storage that we had meant to put in there, with drywalled though unfinished walls.
A year later, I decided that it was time to mud the walls and paint them, put in a floor and finish the space. So I hauled all the items back out, and got to work mudding and taping. Lessons learned from mudding:
1. You don't need as much mud as you think. I used up way too much mud on the back part, and when I had used up my second small bucket I had only one inside corner left to do. Not wanting to go back to the store and buy more mud, I looked around my garage and...:
2. Spackle is not an equivalent substitute for mud. Although I eventually got the tape to stick and coated it to look right, and it all sanded down and painted to look ok, I will never use spackle again as a substitute for mud.
3. A respirator mask and goggles are very helpful when sanding drywall mud in a tiny confined space. There is nowhere for the dust to disperse, so it just billows around in there and irritates you.
4. The more complicated your job is with the more edges and corners, the more PITA the entire process is. To include measuring and cutting various weird size and shape pieces; screwing them in; doing too many corner beads and inside corners; etc. Far better to take a look at the framing and re-frame as necessary to achieve more flat continuous walls.
5. A normal sized room has got to be WAY easier than a cramped confined space. Either my knees hurt from kneeling, or my knee joints from squatting, or my back from hunching over. Meanwhile my kids would walk right in and ask if this was the new secret room I was making for them....
6. All that said, it did NOT take nearly as long as I had feared. And it did not cost very much at all, the materials are cheap.
Urg... I remember my time in my own under-the-stairs cave. Similar split-landing as yours. It seemed to take forever to get it framed, rocked, taped and mudded. So much hell. Lying on my back like a turtle, balancing sheets of drywall on my knees while trying to screw it to the joists. God awful dark pit. Plus I have a heat run though there; such a pain in the ass to remove and reassemble.
I made the guys doing my texture spray it just like the walls in the rest of the area -then I floated the floor and laid down some nice flooring; it's a finished closet like any other in my house, but damn was it an assload of hard work for such a small area. Thanks for the memories.
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Wow, you really should have made secret room out of it!
I'm done, BTW... I'll post finished pics soon. There are some cosmetic defects, but I think it's the kind of thing only I will notice and could be covered up with more texture (The texture I used isn't quite as thick as the builder-grade stuff they originally used, so while it the pattern matches to the naked eye, it doesn't have the same covering power). That Homax stuff in a can is actually pretty expensive on a sq-ft basis, especially if you want to go heavy.
The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). Matching the textures also isn't perfect, but in most lighting conditions you don't see any of these problems (it's also 10 feet away on the ceiling).
After this learning experience, I now notice all the places around the house where the builders or former owners screwed up. I think I could have done a far worse job and the texture would have hidden it pretty well.
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i just did a ceiling for a rental for a friend and it has to be the most pain in the ass job ever... add to that the fact the rental whoever did it before, the strips are totally unaligned and are bowing! My friend didnt want a super perfect job he just wanted it covered after a big leak a couple days before. I can see the humps noticeably since i was doing it alone and on time constaints ... i cam see myself drywalling a wall again but a ceiling ... i dont know about that!
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
So what do you do for corners? Metal plus mesh or just metal? I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
So what do you do for corners? Metal plus mesh or just metal? I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.
I used mesh as well. (the stuff without adhesive backing). Really liked it.
For inside corners just fold the mesh in half like one would with paper. Easy.
For outside corners I used plastic corner beads.
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
So what do you do for corners? Metal plus mesh or just metal? I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.
I have used some metal corner bead that had mesh tape pre-attached (much like the bead that has paper tape pre-attached). It came from either Lowes or Depot... forget which one.
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper (http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Corner-Bead-Hoppers/Pla-Cor-Multi-Use-Hopper.html?gclid=CPGe-qv0kdACFQYMaQodc7MN2A) we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.
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The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper (http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Corner-Bead-Hoppers/Pla-Cor-Multi-Use-Hopper.html?gclid=CPGe-qv0kdACFQYMaQodc7MN2A) we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.
The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).
That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether. I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do. I use mesh tape for everything.
When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper (http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Corner-Bead-Hoppers/Pla-Cor-Multi-Use-Hopper.html?gclid=CPGe-qv0kdACFQYMaQodc7MN2A) we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.
Btw, I don't mean air bubble-- I think I just didn't remove enough mud from behind. Your suggestion still stands, but an air bubble IMO is worse because it creates a structural problem more likely to delaminate in the future while extra mud is structurally sound just looks bad. I did have one air bubble that I ended up redoing entirely because it moved when I poked it with my finger
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Here's a finished pic. It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).
Thanks again for all the advice.
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Here's a finished pic. It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).
Thanks again for all the advice.
You know: You're the only one that will see the defects.
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Here's a finished pic. It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).
Thanks again for all the advice.
You know: You're the only one that will see the defects.
Haha, yeah I know. The wife is happy, so that's what's important.
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Here's a finished pic. It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).
Thanks again for all the advice.
You know: You're the only one that will see the defects.
Haha, yeah I know. The wife is happy, so that's what's important.
Hell, I'd be happy with that. Looks great Dragoncar.
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I didn't see anyone talk about the Magic Trowel stuff, and it looks like your project is done, but I'll weigh in for your next project. :)
Magic Trowel is fantastic, I love it. However, don't ever bother skim coating unless you're one of those old house "plaster is perfect" people*. The paint roller method will drip plaster EVERYWHERE, because you have to water it down quite a bit. Just like painting with a paint roller. It's annoying to clean up, and getting dried plaster out of your hair suuuuuucks.
Instead, just use the Magic Trowel like you would a normal taping knife. I use it (I have 2 - a 12" and a 24") with a plaster hawk tool, rather than a bucket. Fill up the hawk, get some mud on the trowel, and smear it on the wall. I never have to sand with the trowel; there are no edges. In 3 coats, it's perfect (water down the last two coats). I can even do a passable job in 2 coats, if I'm in a rush. And when you combine it with quick-setting (90min) compound, you can do all 3 coats in a half a day.
Oh, and I also recommend the fiberglass mesh tape. I like the self-adhesive stuff. Paper tape and I don't get along.
* When I first moved into my 1926 house with crumbling plaster, I read all about how awesome lath & plaster was - how it was a sin to replace it with drywall, it has better acoustical properties, more charm, character, etc. So like an idiot I skim coated a 200sf ceiling, and a couple hundred sf of walls. I figured I was done, right? Nope. Every time I'm doing some other project, whether it's wiring or installing flooring, I end up covered in dust because some stupid plaster wall crumbles on me. Last week I was putting the finishing touches on the floor in my kid's room; I was nailing in the trim in a closet. The last piece of trim. I'm just about done (just need to caulk it). I can taste it. I start hammering in the trim, and boom; the ancient plaster on the wall above the trim just crumbles, and I'm staring at lath and a hole in the wall. F'ing plaster. On the bright side, I've gotten really good at patching holes..
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Here's a finished pic. It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).
Thanks again for all the advice.
You know: You're the only one that will see the defects.
Yep.
Looks nice. You will improve with every job.