Author Topic: Drywall Hire or DIY?  (Read 17144 times)

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2016, 10:22:05 PM »
Last coat or two is where you get pickier. Not sure what you mean by streaks - small ridges or gouges? Make sure you clean your knife off every so often and don't let partially dried stuff get in your mud. If you didn't get any light compound, then thin it just a bit for last coat(s).

Yeah, little grooves.  Thinning the mud in the last coat definitely helped.  It's not something I can see from the ground, and I'll be adding texture on top anyways, but I'm a perfectionist so... 

The widest knife I have is 6 in.  I read somewhere that that's all you really need and I tend to agree after my last coat -- it's almost ready.  Anyone think I should really go wider?

Where the new drywall meets the old texture, I'm getting ridges like repeating waves from the knife hitting the texture... any tips on handling that?  I've found I can get rid of it by going perpendicular, but I don't know if that's "allowed" (I'm guessing in drywall, whatever works is allowed). 

I have a corner knife but haven't been using it -- I have a paper faced inside corner bead and have been doing both sides at the same time.  It's been leaving tiny ridges on the corners but it kinda looks good to me -- makes the corners looks super sharp.  Maybe my last coat I'll hit it once with the corner knife what do you think?

Here it is:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 10:46:30 PM by dragoncar »

monarda

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2016, 07:52:39 PM »
What's the texture? Sand? Orange peel? Other?

To smooth out our transitions between new and old, we rolled on very diluted mud mixed with primer. (think of it just like extra thick primer). The roller will blend it in nicely and fill in some of the ridges you're talking about.

Then you can add sand on top of that (or whatever other texture)

Buy a good 12" knife. You'll be glad you did. Comes in handy for skim coats, too.

We never used a corner knife.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2016, 08:36:56 PM »
What's the texture? Sand? Orange peel? Other?

To smooth out our transitions between new and old, we rolled on very diluted mud mixed with primer. (think of it just like extra thick primer). The roller will blend it in nicely and fill in some of the ridges you're talking about.

Then you can add sand on top of that (or whatever other texture)

Buy a good 12" knife. You'll be glad you did. Comes in handy for skim coats, too.

We never used a corner knife.

Orange peel is my guess.  I'm still trying to match it with the spray on stuff and scraps. 

The job looked a lot worse in the light of day, but I did another coat and I think it's close now.

I plan to sponge sand the interface between old/new ... also read a tip that you can use a wet paintbrush. 

Are you saying I should hit all the corners again with 12 inch or just use it for the knockdown?

Only issue I'm having now is that the paper on my metal corners is coming off as I scrape along it.  Will sandpaper fix that?  Am I pushing too hard during my scrapes?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 08:38:43 PM by dragoncar »

monarda

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2016, 09:24:52 AM »
Yes, you're pushing too hard.

Try a light sanding and priming in a couple of areas. If there are things that bug you, go over it again with another thin coat, just where it needs it. That should answer your questions on whether your corners need another coat.

The 12" knife will help to blend all your transitions. You want to feather out pretty far. That's more challenging with a 6" knife.  We have both a 10" and 12" knife. We use them both quite a bit.

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2016, 10:25:18 AM »
Yeah, I have  4", 6", 8" and 12" knives.  I don't always use the 12", but sometimes it is really necessary.  This is especially true of butt joints, otherwise you can get a noticeable hump there.  The 12" knife feathers that hump way out.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2016, 02:42:47 AM »
Looks great from here. I sheeted my entire basement, and am currently mudding and taping my garage. (Got bored one week where the weather cooled off.)   No harm in adding more mud, and sanding it out if you have to. I used a sanding sponge in the garage - love it. So much less mess. I found an old tee shirt soaked in water worked as well for the most part. I'm happier with the parts I put more mud on and sanded down than the parts where I skimped on coats.

Looks like you've got a great handle on it though.

shuellmi

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2016, 06:02:39 AM »
Good work!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2016, 06:12:26 AM »
I second the 12" blade.  One pass with really wet mud angled to the left on all the joints and then when dry, another pass to the right and presto, no hump, virtually no sanding.  It is also good for taking off ridges when the compound is nearly dry and eliminating more sanding.

Exflyboy

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2016, 09:28:19 AM »
I agree on the 12" knife it makes life much easier.

I had not thought of the diluted mud mixed with primer idea.. Thats an excellent idea.. will def try that next time.

I am a fan of the corner knife too.. I just use the cheap plastic ones.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2016, 11:25:01 AM »
It's looking good after sponge sanding so I'm not going to widen the joints. But I still got the 12" knife to do my knockdown... got some stuff in a can and I think it matches pretty well.  This part is scary!

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2016, 06:44:25 PM »
Dragancar,  You're doing great!  Take a deep breath, and plunge in to the texture work.  I'm sure you can do it, with everything that you have described that you have learned.  In the future, friends will be asking you for your advice of how to do drywall work.

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2016, 07:17:18 AM »
It's looking good after sponge sanding so I'm not going to widen the joints. But I still got the 12" knife to do my knockdown... got some stuff in a can and I think it matches pretty well.  This part is scary!

You can also just use a squeegie for knockdown.  Nice and wide and you can attach it to a long pole.

gliderpilot567

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2016, 06:47:39 PM »
I made a closet under our staircase. The stairs are in two flights, anti-parallel to each other, with a large landing in the middle where you make a U-turn. There was originally a small coat closet under the upper flight, adjacent to the lower flight, but the closet only went back about 4 feet and I knew there was a lot of wasted space under the landing. So one year I bashed out the back wall of the closet, pulled one stud, re-framed it with additional headers and jack studs, then went to work finishing the inside space.

First order of business was to remove the construction debris, styrofoam cup, mcdonalds wrapper, and other garbage from this interior space. Yep, the builders really do leave their garbage inside your walls.

I finished the entire space including the rectangular space under the landing, plus the additional, low area under the first flight, with sloping ceiling under the stairs. Tons of space! Drywalled it all, which was a PITA because many of the pieces had to be cut in weird shapes and angles, and in the meantime I had to be mindful of the maximum dimensions of pieces that I could cut and still bring them through the closet and through two 90 degree turns into an increasingly confined space. Working for hours in this cave that was only high enough to kneel down in, it was a relief when the last piece of drywall went in, and I flicked on the switch to light up the little LED can light that I had installed in the ceiling, and beheld my new storage space.

I decided that screwing the drywall onto the walls (and adding corner beads where needed) was enough, so I vacuumed and put all the things in storage that we had meant to put in there, with drywalled though unfinished walls.

A year later, I decided that it was time to mud the walls and paint them, put in a floor and finish the space. So I hauled all the items back out, and got to work mudding and taping. Lessons learned from mudding:

1. You don't need as much mud as you think. I used up way too much mud on the back part, and when I had used up my second small bucket I had only one inside corner left to do. Not wanting to go back to the store and buy more mud, I looked around my garage and...:

2. Spackle is not an equivalent substitute for mud. Although I eventually got the tape to stick and coated it to look right, and it all sanded down and painted to look ok, I will never use spackle again as a substitute for mud.

3. A respirator mask and goggles are very helpful when sanding drywall mud in a tiny confined space. There is nowhere for the dust to disperse, so it just billows around in there and irritates you.

4. The more complicated your job is with the more edges and corners, the more PITA the entire process is. To include measuring and cutting various weird size and shape pieces; screwing them in; doing too many corner beads and inside corners; etc. Far better to take a look at the framing and re-frame as necessary to achieve more flat continuous walls.

5. A normal sized room has got to be WAY easier than a cramped confined space. Either my knees hurt from kneeling, or my knee joints from squatting, or my back from hunching over. Meanwhile my kids would walk right in and ask if this was the new secret room I was making for them....

6. All that said, it did NOT take nearly as long as I had feared. And it did not cost very much at all, the materials are cheap.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2016, 07:52:10 PM »
I made a closet under our staircase. The stairs are in two flights, anti-parallel to each other, with a large landing in the middle where you make a U-turn. There was originally a small coat closet under the upper flight, adjacent to the lower flight, but the closet only went back about 4 feet and I knew there was a lot of wasted space under the landing. So one year I bashed out the back wall of the closet, pulled one stud, re-framed it with additional headers and jack studs, then went to work finishing the inside space.

First order of business was to remove the construction debris, styrofoam cup, mcdonalds wrapper, and other garbage from this interior space. Yep, the builders really do leave their garbage inside your walls.

I finished the entire space including the rectangular space under the landing, plus the additional, low area under the first flight, with sloping ceiling under the stairs. Tons of space! Drywalled it all, which was a PITA because many of the pieces had to be cut in weird shapes and angles, and in the meantime I had to be mindful of the maximum dimensions of pieces that I could cut and still bring them through the closet and through two 90 degree turns into an increasingly confined space. Working for hours in this cave that was only high enough to kneel down in, it was a relief when the last piece of drywall went in, and I flicked on the switch to light up the little LED can light that I had installed in the ceiling, and beheld my new storage space.

I decided that screwing the drywall onto the walls (and adding corner beads where needed) was enough, so I vacuumed and put all the things in storage that we had meant to put in there, with drywalled though unfinished walls.

A year later, I decided that it was time to mud the walls and paint them, put in a floor and finish the space. So I hauled all the items back out, and got to work mudding and taping. Lessons learned from mudding:

1. You don't need as much mud as you think. I used up way too much mud on the back part, and when I had used up my second small bucket I had only one inside corner left to do. Not wanting to go back to the store and buy more mud, I looked around my garage and...:

2. Spackle is not an equivalent substitute for mud. Although I eventually got the tape to stick and coated it to look right, and it all sanded down and painted to look ok, I will never use spackle again as a substitute for mud.

3. A respirator mask and goggles are very helpful when sanding drywall mud in a tiny confined space. There is nowhere for the dust to disperse, so it just billows around in there and irritates you.

4. The more complicated your job is with the more edges and corners, the more PITA the entire process is. To include measuring and cutting various weird size and shape pieces; screwing them in; doing too many corner beads and inside corners; etc. Far better to take a look at the framing and re-frame as necessary to achieve more flat continuous walls.

5. A normal sized room has got to be WAY easier than a cramped confined space. Either my knees hurt from kneeling, or my knee joints from squatting, or my back from hunching over. Meanwhile my kids would walk right in and ask if this was the new secret room I was making for them....

6. All that said, it did NOT take nearly as long as I had feared. And it did not cost very much at all, the materials are cheap.

Urg... I remember my time in my own under-the-stairs cave. Similar split-landing as yours.  It seemed to take forever to get it framed, rocked, taped and mudded. So much hell. Lying on my back like a turtle, balancing sheets of drywall on my knees while trying to screw it to the joists. God awful dark pit. Plus I have a heat run though there; such a pain in the ass to remove and reassemble.

I made the guys doing my texture spray it just like the walls in the rest of the area -then I floated the floor and laid down some nice flooring; it's a finished closet like any other in my house, but damn was it an assload of hard work for such a small area.  Thanks for the memories.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2016, 09:16:21 PM »
Wow, you really should have made secret room out of it! 

I'm done, BTW... I'll post finished pics soon.  There are some cosmetic defects, but I think it's the kind of thing only I will notice and could be covered up with more texture (The texture I used isn't quite as thick as the builder-grade stuff they originally used, so while it the pattern matches to the naked eye, it doesn't have the same covering power).  That Homax stuff in a can is actually pretty expensive on a sq-ft basis, especially if you want to go heavy.

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions).  Matching the textures also isn't perfect, but in most lighting conditions you don't see any of these problems (it's also 10 feet away on the ceiling).

After this learning experience, I now notice all the places around the house where the builders or former owners screwed up.  I think I could have done a far worse job and the texture would have hidden it pretty well.

MrSal

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2016, 01:14:02 PM »
i just did a ceiling for a rental for a friend and it has to be the most pain in the ass job ever... add to that the fact the rental whoever did it before, the strips are totally unaligned and are bowing! My friend didnt want a super perfect job he just wanted it covered after a big leak a couple days before. I can see the humps noticeably since i was doing it alone and on time constaints ... i cam see myself drywalling a wall again but a ceiling ... i dont know about that!

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2016, 01:37:44 PM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2016, 02:17:14 PM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

So what do you do for corners?  Metal plus mesh or just metal?   I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2016, 12:24:45 AM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

So what do you do for corners?  Metal plus mesh or just metal?   I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.

I used mesh as well. (the stuff without adhesive backing).  Really liked it.

For inside corners just fold the mesh in half like one would with paper. Easy. 
For outside corners I used plastic corner beads.

Spork

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2016, 07:09:58 AM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

So what do you do for corners?  Metal plus mesh or just metal?   I may end up doing the garage at some point since it's even less important to look good.

I have used some metal corner bead that had mesh tape pre-attached (much like the bead that has paper tape pre-attached).  It came from either Lowes or Depot... forget which one.

monarda

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2016, 09:18:14 AM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2016, 11:33:29 AM »

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.

The worst part is where some of my paper faced corner bead bubbled up a tiny bit and I didn't texture heavily enough over it or notice it early enough to re-do (after painting I don't think I'll be taking down the bead.. it's only visible from certain angles with specific lighting conditions). 

That's why I gave up on paper tape altogether.  I just never could get the perfect front/back coverage the pros do.  I use mesh tape for everything.

When we first started with paper tape we had some bubbling like this. I'm pretty sure that means you need to thin your joint compound some more. If it's wet enough you will have less of that issue. We use corner bead made by No-Coat (available online or from drywall retailers) and didn't have that problem at all. We also applied the joint compound to the corner bead with a hopper we got used on craigslist. For a large space it made things much easier. We had a 600 sq ft space with lots of funky angles and corners.

Btw, I don't mean air bubble-- I think I just didn't remove enough mud from behind.  Your suggestion still stands, but an air bubble IMO is worse because it creates a structural problem more likely to delaminate in the future while extra mud is structurally sound just looks bad.  I did have one air bubble that I ended up redoing entirely because it moved when I poked it with my finger

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2016, 12:56:52 PM »
Here's a finished pic.  It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).

Thanks again for all the advice.

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2016, 04:25:32 PM »
Here's a finished pic.  It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).

Thanks again for all the advice.

You know:  You're the only one that will see the defects.

dragoncar

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2016, 05:33:40 PM »
Here's a finished pic.  It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).

Thanks again for all the advice.

You know:  You're the only one that will see the defects.

Haha, yeah I know.  The wife is happy, so that's what's important.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2016, 12:45:50 AM »
Here's a finished pic.  It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).

Thanks again for all the advice.

You know:  You're the only one that will see the defects.

Haha, yeah I know.  The wife is happy, so that's what's important.

Hell, I'd be happy with that. Looks great Dragoncar.

dilinger

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2016, 01:16:09 AM »
I didn't see anyone talk about the Magic Trowel stuff, and it looks like your project is done, but I'll weigh in for your next project. :)

Magic Trowel is fantastic, I love it. However, don't ever bother skim coating unless you're one of those old house "plaster is perfect" people*.  The paint roller method will drip plaster EVERYWHERE, because you have to water it down quite a bit.  Just like painting with a paint roller.  It's annoying to clean up, and getting dried plaster out of your hair suuuuuucks.
Instead, just use the Magic Trowel like you would a normal taping knife.  I use it (I have 2 - a 12" and a 24") with a plaster hawk tool, rather than a bucket.  Fill up the hawk, get some mud on the trowel, and smear it on the wall.  I never have to sand with the trowel; there are no edges.  In 3 coats, it's perfect (water down the last two coats).  I can even do a passable job in 2 coats, if I'm in a rush.  And when you combine it with quick-setting (90min) compound, you can do all 3 coats in a half a day.

Oh, and I also recommend the fiberglass mesh tape.  I like the self-adhesive stuff.  Paper tape and I don't get along.

 * When I first moved into my 1926 house with crumbling plaster, I read all about how awesome lath & plaster was - how it was a sin to replace it with drywall, it has better acoustical properties, more charm, character, etc.  So like an idiot I skim coated a 200sf ceiling, and a couple hundred sf of walls.  I figured I was done, right?  Nope.  Every time I'm doing some other project, whether it's wiring or installing flooring, I end up covered in dust because some stupid plaster wall crumbles on me.  Last week I was putting the finishing touches on the floor in my kid's room; I was nailing in the trim in a closet.  The last piece of trim.  I'm just about done (just need to caulk it).  I can taste it.  I start hammering in the trim, and boom; the ancient plaster on the wall above the trim just crumbles, and I'm staring at lath and a hole in the wall.  F'ing plaster.  On the bright side, I've gotten really good at patching holes..
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 01:18:21 AM by dilinger »

monarda

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Re: Drywall Hire or DIY?
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2016, 08:59:09 AM »
Here's a finished pic.  It's almost impossible to get one that doesn't have contrast/lighting problems underneath (which is why it's hard to see defects).

Thanks again for all the advice.

You know:  You're the only one that will see the defects.

Yep.


Looks nice. You will improve with every job.