Author Topic: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!  (Read 1064 times)

cdgreg

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Vehicle in question: 2009 Toyota Rav4, Base Model, I4, stock tire size of 215/70R-16.  I currently have our winter tires mounted/balanced on the stock wheels, and a set of all seasons not on wheels for spring/summer/fall. 

Question: Can I mount and balance our all seasons, 215/70R-16, on an extra set of Riel wheels that I have (see photos of wheels)?  I am not sure how to interpret the various letters/numbers on the wheels and if they are appropriate for the 215/70R-16 tires.  The extra set of  Riel wheels currently have some junk tires mounted on them which are 225/70R-16 which tirerack lists as an optional size for my vehicle.  The bolt pattern should not be an issue, they were previously mounted on an '06 Toyota Highlander.

Thank you!  My goal here is to be able to swap the winter <-> 3 Season tires right in my driveway with both sets on rims instead of paying for mounting/balancing twice a year.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 05:13:13 PM by cdgreg »

Geneseo1911

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 05:21:32 PM »
Won't be a problem. If the wheels are to wide to safely mount the tires (extremely unlikely) the tire shop won't do it. 215s and 225s are only 10mm difference in width....a centimeter.... basically nothing. Make sure you use a torque wrench when mounting said wheels.

cdgreg

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 05:45:30 PM »
Won't be a problem. If the wheels are to wide to safely mount the tires (extremely unlikely) the tire shop won't do it. 215s and 225s are only 10mm difference in width....a centimeter.... basically nothing. Make sure you use a torque wrench when mounting said wheels.

That is great news, much appreciated.  I remember when I bought generic black steel wheels for the second set for our other vehicle I had to buy a special set of lug nuts because the stock lug nuts would not work with the aftermarket rims.  Should I anticipate needing a special set of lug nuts for these as well or should the stock lugs work because these seem to stick out more than steel wheels?  I attached a front pic if it helps at all.  I am going to have Toyota mount/balance the tires so I am 100% sure they are confident in the safety.  For future seasons, I do have a torque wrench, torque specs, as well as copies of pages from the vehicle owner's manual on how/where to safely jack the vehicle.  Learning a bit every new project! 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 05:52:14 PM by cdgreg »

Christof

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 486
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Germany
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 06:27:16 PM »
225/70R-16: 225 is the width of the tire in mm. It needs to match the wheel. The width is measured in millimeter. 70 is the percentage for the width of the tire. That means, you tire has a width of 15 cm. Smaller numbers are usually possible, but the car might not be rated for them (speedometer depends on exact tire size, for instance). Larger values might not fit. R is just the type of tire. 16 is the size of the wheel which is measured in inches.

If you compare a 225/70R-16 and 215/70R-16 tire they have a hole of the same size (16 inches), but the 225 is 10 mm wider and about 7 mm larger in diameter (3.5 mm larger in radius).

6Jx16H2: 6 is the width of the inner part of the wheel in inches. That would fit a tire between 185 and 215 mm. 16 is the size of the wheel in inches. That needs to match the hole in your tire. H2 and x are construction identifiers just like the R in the tire. H2 is two humps which basically means there's a hump in a hump in your wheel.

So yes, a set of 215/70R-16 tires fits onto a set of 6Jx16H2 wheels. If the 225 fits your car, a 215 should fit technically, but might not be allowed legally or might require some reconfiguration.

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 06:39:09 PM »
Won't be a problem. If the wheels are to wide to safely mount the tires (extremely unlikely) the tire shop won't do it. 215s and 225s are only 10mm difference in width....a centimeter.... basically nothing. Make sure you use a torque wrench when mounting said wheels.

That is great news, much appreciated.  I remember when I bought generic black steel wheels for the second set for our other vehicle I had to buy a special set of lug nuts because the stock lug nuts would not work with the aftermarket rims.  Should I anticipate needing a special set of lug nuts for these as well or should the stock lugs work because these seem to stick out more than steel wheels?  I attached a front pic if it helps at all.  I am going to have Toyota mount/balance the tires so I am 100% sure they are confident in the safety.  For future seasons, I do have a torque wrench, torque specs, as well as copies of pages from the vehicle owner's manual on how/where to safely jack the vehicle.  Learning a bit every new project!

OEM wheels often use a different type of lug nut than aftermarket.  Yours probably look something like this:


Often, aftermarket wheels will use lug nuts with conical seats:


Radius is less common, in my experience. You should be able to tell by looking up the wheel online or by looking at the lug nut mating surface.

cdgreg

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 07:53:23 PM »
Won't be a problem. If the wheels are to wide to safely mount the tires (extremely unlikely) the tire shop won't do it. 215s and 225s are only 10mm difference in width....a centimeter.... basically nothing. Make sure you use a torque wrench when mounting said wheels.

That is great news, much appreciated.  I remember when I bought generic black steel wheels for the second set for our other vehicle I had to buy a special set of lug nuts because the stock lug nuts would not work with the aftermarket rims.  Should I anticipate needing a special set of lug nuts for these as well or should the stock lugs work because these seem to stick out more than steel wheels?  I attached a front pic if it helps at all.  I am going to have Toyota mount/balance the tires so I am 100% sure they are confident in the safety.  For future seasons, I do have a torque wrench, torque specs, as well as copies of pages from the vehicle owner's manual on how/where to safely jack the vehicle.  Learning a bit every new project!

OEM wheels often use a different type of lug nut than aftermarket.  Yours probably look something like this:


Often, aftermarket wheels will use lug nuts with conical seats:


Radius is less common, in my experience. You should be able to tell by looking up the wheel online or by looking at the lug nut mating surface.

Thank you again for your help and knowledge, I am really enjoying learning and being able to do more work myself as compared to relying on dealerships.  I took 4 close ups of the lug nut holes, would you say they are typical lock nut cone seat or typical lock nut with radius seat? 

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 07:56:16 PM »
It's hard for me to tell from the pictures.  Can you tell if the edge of the hole is straight?

cdgreg

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 08:03:10 PM »
It's hard for me to tell from the pictures.  Can you tell if the edge of the hole is straight?

I was afraid the pictures would not be high quality enough.  From the front, it narrows like a funnel and feels like there is a very slight lip entering the hole.  Once you pass the slight lip it is smooth all the way through. 

At worst I can probably stop by autozone tomorrow and have them tell me. I figure a set from ebay, amazon, autozone, or walmart may be cheaper than the dealership. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:06:36 PM by cdgreg »

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 08:10:36 PM »
It's hard for me to tell from the pictures.  Can you tell if the edge of the hole is straight?

I was afraid the pictures would not be high quality enough.  From the front, it narrows like a funnel and feels like there is a very slight lip entering the hole.  Once you pass the slight lip it is smooth all the way through. 

At worst I can probably stop by autozone tomorrow and have them tell me. I figure a set from ebay, amazon, autozone, or walmart may be cheaper than the dealership.

A dealership may not carry the right type, either. If it is smooth all the way through and not cupped in a radius shape, I expect it's conical seat.  You'll need to find lug nuts of the same thread size/pitch - any auto parts store should be able to help you make sure you have the right ones.

sequoia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 05:18:08 PM »
I do not see anyone mention the offset for the wheel. I am no expert, so I can not tell you if it will fit, but wheels has what it is called offset. It determine how much it stick out or sunken when you install it. Why would this matter, well, if it sticks out too much, and you hit a large pothole, your wheel my travel high enough and hit the fender and cause damage. Or when you turn to lock, it may hit the fender or inside frame. So just because the tires fit the wheels, and the wheels has the same bolt pattern, does not means it will fit correctly. You also need to make sure your brakes will fit into the wheels.

Tasty Pinecones

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 11:09:25 AM »
The ET45 is the offset of the wheel seen in one of the pics. Also important and comes in many different sizes.

Beware of the AutoZone guys. Parts guys are not always hired for their experience. That was the case of the auto parts store where I worked. That I knew cars inside and out was merely a hiring bonus for my boss. Take whatever advice they offer and confirm it elsewhere.

nick663

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: midwest
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 11:16:36 AM »
Along with offset, sometimes you need to watch for brake caliper clearance to the spokes of the wheel or the wheel barrel.  I doubt it will be an issue here as you're not doing anything crazy but it's something to be aware of.  I usually test fit wheels when doing something like this before mounting the tires just to make sure you don't have any surprises.

If you know wheel width/offset, this is a good calculator that will tell you exactly what the new wheels will change in inner and outer wheel clearance:
http://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator
And this is a good calculator to show the speedometer and size difference between two tires:
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/infoTireMath.do

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 08:31:41 PM »
Guys, the wheels were previously on a Highlander.  Wheel specs are identical.

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/highlander/2006/
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/rav4/2009/

If they worked on the Highlander, they'll work on the RAV4.

sequoia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 06:43:42 AM »
Guys, the wheels were previously on a Highlander.  Wheel specs are identical.

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/highlander/2006/
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/rav4/2009/

If they worked on the Highlander, they'll work on the RAV4.

OP is wanting to put an aftermarket wheel from highlander into RAV4. Your logic "If they worked on the Highlander, they'll work on the RAV4." is absolutely not true. Like I said above, just because the tires fit the wheels, and the wheels fit the into car, you still need to make sure the offset will work, and it will clear the brakes.

Looking at your link for RAV4, it shows the rims 6.5J to 7.5J. Looking at the first picture from OP, the rim is marked 6J. I am no expert here but it seems that it is outside of the range. Wheels and tires are the only things that connect the car to the ground. Bad things may happen when installing the wheels that do not fit correctly into a car. 

OP - I think this is may not be the right forum to ask such specific question. You should ask this question in RAV4 forum. Someone may have tried installing this type of wheel before.

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 08:33:55 PM »
Guys, the wheels were previously on a Highlander.  Wheel specs are identical.

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/highlander/2006/
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/rav4/2009/

If they worked on the Highlander, they'll work on the RAV4.

OP is wanting to put an aftermarket wheel from highlander into RAV4. Your logic "If they worked on the Highlander, they'll work on the RAV4." is absolutely not true. Like I said above, just because the tires fit the wheels, and the wheels fit the into car, you still need to make sure the offset will work, and it will clear the brakes.

Looking at your link for RAV4, it shows the rims 6.5J to 7.5J. Looking at the first picture from OP, the rim is marked 6J. I am no expert here but it seems that it is outside of the range. Wheels and tires are the only things that connect the car to the ground. Bad things may happen when installing the wheels that do not fit correctly into a car. 

OP - I think this is may not be the right forum to ask such specific question. You should ask this question in RAV4 forum. Someone may have tried installing this type of wheel before.

Minimum wheel diameter is the same (16").  Wheel diameter is what matters for brake clearance, not wheel width. In rare cases wheel design will cause wheels of the same diameter to work/not work because brake clearance, but that's not incredibly common.

Previously on:
2006 Highlander with front brake rotor diameter: 296 mm

Going to:
2009 RAV4 with front brake rotor diameter: 275 mm

Moreover, going from a 6.5" ET 45 wheel to a 6.0" ET 45 wheel will create 6mm ADDITIONAL clearance.

Do you still think the brakes won't clear the wheels?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:06:27 PM by JLee »

sequoia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2017, 09:44:17 AM »
Minimum wheel diameter is the same (16").  Wheel diameter is what matters for brake clearance, not wheel width. In rare cases wheel design will cause wheels of the same diameter to work/not work because brake clearance, but that's not incredibly common.

Previously on:
2006 Highlander with front brake rotor diameter: 296 mm

Going to:
2009 RAV4 with front brake rotor diameter: 275 mm

Moreover, going from a 6.5" ET 45 wheel to a 6.0" ET 45 wheel will create 6mm ADDITIONAL clearance.

Do you still think the brakes won't clear the wheels?

Do I think if the brakes won't clear the wheels? How the **** would I know? I do not own RAV4.  Do you own 2009 RAV4 and have tried that specific wheel?

Not here to debate with you. I just do not want OP to install wheels that do not fit, or fit poorly based on some free advice on internet forum, and end up endangering him/herself and everyone on the road because now the car handles different or whatever the case it might be.

I get it this is a forum about frugality and how we can save money. But on certain things, you do not cut corners regardless how much you can save money, imho.

sw1tch

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Middle of no and where
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2017, 12:18:59 PM »
There's one easy way to see if they fit:

Jack the front end of the RAV4 up on stands and remove one wheel.
Mount the aftermarket wheel where you removed the other wheel.
Give it a few spins and see if it rubs on the caliper/suspension/whatever.

If no rubbing then you're good.  If it rubs, then no.

Most Japanese cars have a 45-50 offset stock.  Also, either the bolt pattern is 5x114.3 or 5x100; if those match up between the 2 sets of wheels then you're good in that regard.

For seeing impacts of tire sizes, messing with offsets, etc, I've always used this tool: http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp
<|> My Strava <|>

I, sw1tch, will become a millionaire!

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2017, 01:58:37 PM »
Minimum wheel diameter is the same (16").  Wheel diameter is what matters for brake clearance, not wheel width. In rare cases wheel design will cause wheels of the same diameter to work/not work because brake clearance, but that's not incredibly common.

Previously on:
2006 Highlander with front brake rotor diameter: 296 mm

Going to:
2009 RAV4 with front brake rotor diameter: 275 mm

Moreover, going from a 6.5" ET 45 wheel to a 6.0" ET 45 wheel will create 6mm ADDITIONAL clearance.

Do you still think the brakes won't clear the wheels?

Do I think if the brakes won't clear the wheels? How the **** would I know? I do not own RAV4.  Do you own 2009 RAV4 and have tried that specific wheel?

Not here to debate with you. I just do not want OP to install wheels that do not fit, or fit poorly based on some free advice on internet forum, and end up endangering him/herself and everyone on the road because now the car handles different or whatever the case it might be.

I get it this is a forum about frugality and how we can save money. But on certain things, you do not cut corners regardless how much you can save money, imho.

If you're not here to debate with me, perhaps you should not have told me that my advice is bad.  Based on my prior experience with Toyotas (and cars in general - at least 12 I've owned have been Toyota/Lexus) and all information I was able to find, I am confident they will fit.

sw1tch

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Middle of no and where
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2017, 02:04:16 PM »
Only way to really know is to try it on the hub.

Reminds me of the 2007-2008 civic: the EX 16" wheels fit on the Si with no issues, but the 17" Si wheels sometimes rub against the caliper on the base civics.  Even though the rotors and calipers are larger on the Si, the dimensions and spacing of the caliper are different.
<|> My Strava <|>

I, sw1tch, will become a millionaire!

JLee

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3726
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 02:18:38 PM »
There's one easy way to see if they fit:

Jack the front end of the RAV4 up on stands and remove one wheel.
Mount the aftermarket wheel where you removed the other wheel.
Give it a few spins and see if it rubs on the caliper/suspension/whatever.

If no rubbing then you're good.  If it rubs, then no.

Most Japanese cars have a 45-50 offset stock.  Also, either the bolt pattern is 5x114.3 or 5x100; if those match up between the 2 sets of wheels then you're good in that regard.

For seeing impacts of tire sizes, messing with offsets, etc, I've always used this tool: http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

That's one of the best calculators I've seen, and I hadn't seen it yet. Thanks for sharing!

Only way to really know is to try it on the hub.

Reminds me of the 2007-2008 civic: the EX 16" wheels fit on the Si with no issues, but the 17" Si wheels sometimes rub against the caliper on the base civics.  Even though the rotors and calipers are larger on the Si, the dimensions and spacing of the caliper are different.

Yep, in some cases wheel design is a factor.  16" Hyundai Tiburon wheels will clear the brake calipers on a Mazdaspeed3, but most 16's will not.

Car Jack

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Does anyone understand tire and wheel sizes....? Please help!
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2017, 07:06:55 AM »
While I could tell you to convert those rotor sizes to inches, add a bit and result in less than 11 inches diameter for this thing, that doesn't matter.  I'm an engineer and can calculate with the best of them.  My true test is to "try it".  Putting the wheel on the front of the vehicle jacked up, spin it, look to see it it's almost hitting the strut or sticking out like a formula 1 car would you tell you the story.

The other way to tell?  Go onto Tire Rack and look for aftermarket wheels for the vehicle you want to fit these wheels to.  If any of the aftermarket wheels match.....or if the ET range both above and below your ET, then you should be good.  But again, whether you hit the caliper depends on the shape of the wheel.  There are Subarus where a wheel from one model won't fit another because the caliper is too big and the wheel doesn't clear it.  Again.....if you bolt the wheel onto the vehicle and spin it, you'll see if this is the case.