Author Topic: building (maybe) a steel garage  (Read 11094 times)

S0VERE1GN

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building (maybe) a steel garage
« on: April 21, 2014, 02:14:12 PM »
Folks,

the wife and I just closed on our first house! using some brazen negotiating tactics from the real estate books this forum recommended, we got a great deal as well!

Sadly (for me) the house has no garage, and my true muse is tinkering with all things automotive. I'm thinking of doing a steel garage, but there is no love lost if you all can show me a wood garage kit/stick built plan that will give me a similar/better result along with similar/better home appreciation.

insofar as size, I'd like to go fairly deep, I'm thinking 35x40'

insofar as steel vs wood vs anything else, what experience do you all have with home appreciation from the build vs cost, lowest cost, issues etc.

thanks!

Another Reader

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 02:53:23 PM »
Before you get too deep into this, check with the local planning/permitting authorities to see what's allowed on the property.  Also review any CC&R's that run with the property.  These will be referenced in the title report.  Of course, if there is an HOA, they will want to have their say as well.  Once you know what you are allowed to build, then you can start costing out alternatives.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 04:04:19 PM »
dually noted. More just wondering what experiences anyone has had with steel garage construction and so forth.

dragoncar

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 04:26:21 PM »
Cool, which tactics?  I hate reading books.

Milspecstache

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 04:51:55 PM »
I know nothing about steel garages but I did help a friend build a kit garage (wooden):
He got the slab poured.
Kit arrived with all the pieces (except for doors and windows I think) but no directions.
We had to figure out how to do everything... 

I like to dream of replacing some of our farm building with steel buildings.  It wouldn't be very MMM but it's nice to dream, right?  Love to hear everything that you learn.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 07:42:36 AM »
do you know the roundabout cost to pour the slab? I know it varies but I have no idea what a slab generally costs.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 09:45:21 AM »
UPDATE:


after requesting quotes from all of those " put in your information and our snake oil salesmen will call you!" sites, I've realized that if you're cash in hand and ready to buy the building (not me quite yet) and you're flexible on size and features, these places constantly have cancelled orders they're willing to offload at near cost, and you can really beat them up on price, especially if you pit other companies against them.

the first guy that called has 2 buildings they would give me for the balance remaining on the piece (a 25% discount) and another company had SIX!!! waiting for more calls but I imagine this will continue. These prices are far better than what I'm seeing on ebay or home depot for similar size buildings.

ie a 32x40 foot with a 14 foot tall peak and all doors and windows for $10k even delivered with tax included in the price.

will continue to update as I learn more. still interested in any successes/horror stories folks have had with erecting one themselves.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 02:01:22 PM »
Cool, which tactics?  I hate reading books.

LOL! the one I used for this particular house was "an empty house an opportunity" the house was rented before, tenants moved out, house went up for sale from owners.  actually already at a discount to last appraisal (only last year)

knowing they had no desire to pay another mortgage payment, I offered them 175 and they cover all closing costs (25k below their list, appraised at 230) and they initially said no and came back at 195 no closing. we walked. they called back 30 minutes later with the signed papers.

other tactics for cheap home acquisition is searching pre foreclosures (hard phone call to make, but they might appreciate the help) and also searching for estate liquidation sales that are happening around town. most times the house will go on the market after the estate liquidates.

there's plenty more if you dive into the deep beautiful sea of literature.

dragoncar

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 02:45:55 PM »
Cool, which tactics?  I hate reading books.

LOL! the one I used for this particular house was "an empty house an opportunity" the house was rented before, tenants moved out, house went up for sale from owners.  actually already at a discount to last appraisal (only last year)

knowing they had no desire to pay another mortgage payment, I offered them 175 and they cover all closing costs (25k below their list, appraised at 230) and they initially said no and came back at 195 no closing. we walked. they called back 30 minutes later with the signed papers.

other tactics for cheap home acquisition is searching pre foreclosures (hard phone call to make, but they might appreciate the help) and also searching for estate liquidation sales that are happening around town. most times the house will go on the market after the estate liquidates.

there's plenty more if you dive into the deep beautiful sea of literature.

Thanks, do any of these work in "hot" markets? 

Milspecstache

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 05:29:24 PM »
do you know the roundabout cost to pour the slab? I know it varies but I have no idea what a slab generally costs.

Depends on several factors but here is what I did 3 years ago for a 1400sqft slab about 4" thick, 4000psi:
I marked everything off by hand for free.  Used a water level for much of it.
Dug it by hiring a guy with a backhoe off of Craigslist for $300
Did the forms myself using 2x10s which I recycled into joists
Rebar/welded wire mesh/10mil plastic ran about $1000 installed by my family
Concrete was about $4000 as I needed about 40cy at $100 per cy
Hired a crew for the day of the pour which I think was about $2500 (will edit later if I am wrong when I check my records)

So figure about $6-10/sqft as the bids I got were about $10k - $15k to do it by hiring a contractor for everything.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 06:06:16 AM »
do you know the roundabout cost to pour the slab? I know it varies but I have no idea what a slab generally costs.

Depends on several factors but here is what I did 3 years ago for a 1400sqft slab about 4" thick, 4000psi:
I marked everything off by hand for free.  Used a water level for much of it.
Dug it by hiring a guy with a backhoe off of Craigslist for $300
Did the forms myself using 2x10s which I recycled into joists
Rebar/welded wire mesh/10mil plastic ran about $1000 installed by my family
Concrete was about $4000 as I needed about 40cy at $100 per cy
Hired a crew for the day of the pour which I think was about $2500 (will edit later if I am wrong when I check my records)

So figure about $6-10/sqft as the bids I got were about $10k - $15k to do it by hiring a contractor for everything.

wow almost 9k for a slab.....and that's with you doing most of the work! well I have a few friends in the excavation biz so maybe I can get a deal... we'll see.

Milspecstache

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 10:20:15 AM »
I checked my records.  I had a quote for $1900 for one crew to do the pour but they got tied up as soon as the weather broke nice enough to do the work.  Then I had to go with my second quote.

My slab was slightly more expensive as I had deep footings (4' or so) on one side due to bringing in a lot of fill.

Regardless, slabs aren't cheap.  For your purposes I probably wouldn't hire a crew and instead find a friend will a bull float and do it myself.  Shouldn't be hard as you don't need a burnished surface for a garage.  My math was exactly correct when I calculated the cy that I needed.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 12:18:22 PM »
Thanks for the update.  I'm thinking of making the mold for it myself, leveling it off and so forth. and then just hiring the truck to pour (once again i have a few buddies who do this so i should be able to get a deal, maybe just use some extra from a big build they're doing)

Insofar as the COST of the metal garages, they are a sight more pricey than just buying the timber yourself that's for sure. This won't be my first build (worked contracting for years) so it looks like stick build will be the cheapest thing. and will probably keep the neighbors happier.

anyone have a good resource for plans? or a good program to use on PC to make your own for low/no cost?

Greg

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 12:42:35 PM »
Depending on where you live, a metal building could cause condensation problems, which aren't good for car hobbies anyway.  Other metal building drawbacks include difficulty insulating, rodent control, and noise.  I would go the stick-built route if I were you, especially since you have the skills and experience.

Some places have a simplified permitting process for outbuildings like garages.  This could take the form of an application you fill out to indicate general shape, dimensions and some other simple info.  Truss companies supply truss designs for free, assuming they will sell them to you.  Also in my area, an agricultural-use building has only one inspection, the stakes marking the corners prior to construction.  So I'd look into these possibilities in your area.

Consider the possible future use of a lift and plan the wall height and slab accordingly, either providing thickened footing areas (make sure to map them) or overall 6" reinforced slab, or whatever the lift you might want to get would need.  A pit is another nice possible feature if the drainage will allow for it.  I sure wish I had one or the other.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 12:58:04 PM »
Depending on where you live, a metal building could cause condensation problems, which aren't good for car hobbies anyway.  Other metal building drawbacks include difficulty insulating, rodent control, and noise.  I would go the stick-built route if I were you, especially since you have the skills and experience.

Some places have a simplified permitting process for outbuildings like garages.  This could take the form of an application you fill out to indicate general shape, dimensions and some other simple info.  Truss companies supply truss designs for free, assuming they will sell them to you.  Also in my area, an agricultural-use building has only one inspection, the stakes marking the corners prior to construction.  So I'd look into these possibilities in your area.

Consider the possible future use of a lift and plan the wall height and slab accordingly, either providing thickened footing areas (make sure to map them) or overall 6" reinforced slab, or whatever the lift you might want to get would need.  A pit is another nice possible feature if the drainage will allow for it.  I sure wish I had one or the other.

yeah I've decided against the metal garage idea as completely unmustachian and silly.  Stick build it is.

I would like to go for a lift area as well with a thicker slab...however it increases the cost grately vs the total returns (at leat for me) my passion is small cars (vintage porsches specifically) and motorcycles, so I don't think I'll be doing much wrenching on anything so large that my incredibly nice 4 ton garage jack can't handle it nicely.....

for some numbers: between the thicker slab (anywhere from 1k to 3k more depending on several factors) the increased height of the garage's peak and walls (probably another $1k) and the lift itself (lets say $3k for a middle of the road model) we're somewhere between 3 and 5k just for a lift! which will nearly double the total cost of the garage (shoot from the hip number right now is about 8k for an oversized 2 car)

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 01:18:28 PM »
Cool, which tactics?  I hate reading books.

LOL! the one I used for this particular house was "an empty house an opportunity" the house was rented before, tenants moved out, house went up for sale from owners.  actually already at a discount to last appraisal (only last year)

knowing they had no desire to pay another mortgage payment, I offered them 175 and they cover all closing costs (25k below their list, appraised at 230) and they initially said no and came back at 195 no closing. we walked. they called back 30 minutes later with the signed papers.

other tactics for cheap home acquisition is searching pre foreclosures (hard phone call to make, but they might appreciate the help) and also searching for estate liquidation sales that are happening around town. most times the house will go on the market after the estate liquidates.

there's plenty more if you dive into the deep beautiful sea of literature.

Thanks, do any of these work in "hot" markets?


I should have also mentioned in my above post that the real clincher in the deal was the 3 week close date. (ie closing before they need to make another mortgage payment) If it wasn't for the super fast close date they probably would have walked.


There are a million ways to define a "hot" market.  Growing employment base, large selloff due to company closure, etc.

All hot markets have their own opportunities, think of what types of price discrepancies these types of markets create and build your "pitch" to buy or sell in these markets.

dragoncar

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 01:23:06 PM »
Cool, which tactics?  I hate reading books.

LOL! the one I used for this particular house was "an empty house an opportunity" the house was rented before, tenants moved out, house went up for sale from owners.  actually already at a discount to last appraisal (only last year)

knowing they had no desire to pay another mortgage payment, I offered them 175 and they cover all closing costs (25k below their list, appraised at 230) and they initially said no and came back at 195 no closing. we walked. they called back 30 minutes later with the signed papers.

other tactics for cheap home acquisition is searching pre foreclosures (hard phone call to make, but they might appreciate the help) and also searching for estate liquidation sales that are happening around town. most times the house will go on the market after the estate liquidates.

there's plenty more if you dive into the deep beautiful sea of literature.

Thanks, do any of these work in "hot" markets?


I should have also mentioned in my above post that the real clincher in the deal was the 3 week close date. (ie closing before they need to make another mortgage payment) If it wasn't for the super fast close date they probably would have walked.


There are a million ways to define a "hot" market.  Growing employment base, large selloff due to company closure, etc.

All hot markets have their own opportunities, think of what types of price discrepancies these types of markets create and build your "pitch" to buy or sell in these markets.

I mean hot as in I see homes sell for a few hundred thousand over asking, closing within 7 days of listing.  Not sure how to compete with that (probably I shouldn't).  Maybe the "tactic" is to wait.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 09:24:05 AM »
feel free to PM me, or hop over to the real estate forum.

Greg

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 09:49:22 AM »
I would like to go for a lift area as well with a thicker slab...however it increases the cost grately vs the total returns (at leat for me) my passion is small cars (vintage porsches specifically) and motorcycles, so I don't think I'll be doing much wrenching on anything so large that my incredibly nice 4 ton garage jack can't handle it nicely.....

There are a few 2-post lifts that could be installed on a 4" slab, so if you're just doing smaller imports you should be fine if you ever decide to get a lift.  It's on my wish list (I work on Fiats and Lancias) and I have the height (10' ceiling) but there are too many other priorities right now.

dragoncar

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 11:40:03 AM »
I would like to go for a lift area as well with a thicker slab...however it increases the cost grately vs the total returns (at leat for me) my passion is small cars (vintage porsches specifically) and motorcycles, so I don't think I'll be doing much wrenching on anything so large that my incredibly nice 4 ton garage jack can't handle it nicely.....

There are a few 2-post lifts that could be installed on a 4" slab, so if you're just doing smaller imports you should be fine if you ever decide to get a lift.  It's on my wish list (I work on Fiats and Lancias) and I have the height (10' ceiling) but there are too many other priorities right now.

How about a pit?  Are those cheaper?

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 09:57:51 AM »
If you have a shovel and a lot of free time I wager they are!

I've found that my $400 Low profile jack with "28 of sway from bottom to top is plenty for everything except for dropping engines (i just lift them)

If i need to drop an engine then you can always shim the car until you get it high enough, I've done it before :]
based on the math and the quotes I've gotten so far, materials for a garage that's 28x32 is about 7k total, whereas if i increase the depth of the slab, raise the roof, and buy the lift (even used) it adds almost 10k to the project, isn't moveable, and wont add really any value to the home. ( I would imagine I'll get 50% of that value back out of the house when I sell it, or if i decide to rent a Lift like that will become a liability more than a benefit, same with a pit)

as such, a 7k garage that gives me the space to build in shelves for spare parts, and has plenty of space for me to work with a regular jack I think is the better/more mustachian way. the cost savings is astronomical especially when you think of the hand full of jobs that really NEED a lift. 

Roland of Gilead

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 10:13:48 AM »
Our house has a 6 car garage with an auto pit but I have never used it.  The guy who built the house must have been into doing his on oil changes or something.  It is about 8 feet long, 4 feet wide,  6.5 feet deep. 

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2014, 07:33:52 AM »
I would like to go for a lift area as well with a thicker slab...however it increases the cost grately vs the total returns (at leat for me) my passion is small cars (vintage porsches specifically) and motorcycles, so I don't think I'll be doing much wrenching on anything so large that my incredibly nice 4 ton garage jack can't handle it nicely.....

There are a few 2-post lifts that could be installed on a 4" slab, so if you're just doing smaller imports you should be fine if you ever decide to get a lift.  It's on my wish list (I work on Fiats and Lancias) and I have the height (10' ceiling) but there are too many other priorities right now.

hm. that's a fine point....

I'll probably just stick to my original plan then and look for lifts that might work in my space later on if i decide I want one. adding a 12 ft peak isn't that much more expensive either...

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2014, 05:43:53 AM »
vnew update.

after the home inspection, my inspector pointed out that finishing the attic in our new home was essentially out of the question, as it would cost as much as a garage build! with that being said, a larger garage is now in the cards, with a little bit of a hangout space in the back for me!

this new, larger garage build brings Metal back into the game. a super deep garage built stick grows the costs very rapidly, whereas the metal garages will still seemingly stay cheaper,

case in point:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duro-Steel-30x40x14-New-Metal-Buildings-DiRECT-New-Residential-Garage-Workshop-/291127540032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c88db940

you'll note its tall enough for a lift, and possibly even a cool frame din loft area in the back!


A new issue has emerged in my research, though. Apparently metal garages create a lot of condensation, and as such cause a lot of issues if they're not insulated essentially as soon as they're built. since I wanted to run electrical "sometime later" , this now creates the problem of needing to frame in the interior, run electrical AND insulate right after the building is built.

Cost of framing, drywall, and insulation

Framing: $150-200, only frame up the side walls and use a thin sheathing on the roof

Drywall/sheathing:

Insulated roof sheathing: abut $600-700

Drywall: $400

Electrical: I'm going to assume more than $1000.

Spackle, paint etc: $300

TOTAL: (just to finish interior) $2300 using these numbers.

so to total it all up:

$2000 for the slab
$7000 for the building
$2300 to frame, insulate, and run electrical on the interior
Wonderful turbine exhaust fan that was used in an old factory I'm stealing from my mom: $0  This will help keep the building cool as I frame it, and in the summer in general.
TOTAL: $11,300

whew. However compared to the raw materials cost for the stick built garage of the same size this is great! those buildings were coming in at about 12-15k WITHOUT insulation or electrical.

that's all for now. will keep you fools updated.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2014, 07:52:22 AM »
How are you doing the slab for only $2000?

Greg

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2014, 11:14:33 AM »
you can always run your electrical later, in conduit on the surface.  You don't necessarily need to drywall it either but it looks nice.  There are special insulation coverings for warehouses that are like this.

Milspecstache

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2014, 04:03:25 PM »
An option that a friend of mine did was pour footings and erect building.  Then, a few years later when he has more money he will finish by pouring the slab.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2014, 06:06:56 AM »
How are you doing the slab for only $2000?

I have a lot of friends in construction so I'll level the area myself etc and then he'll just come in on a Saturday afternoon and do it.  have a couple of beers and call it good for the cost of the crete.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 06:08:30 AM by S0VERE1GN »

S0VERE1GN

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Re: building (maybe) a steel garage
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 02:49:22 PM »
New thought for insulation is Blown in insulation, which will allow me to stagger the cost of insulation at least a bit.

ie:

1. pour slab
2. assemble building
3. frame interior walls.
4. run electrical.
5. drywall
6. blown insulation

its also seemingly the cheapest option.