Author Topic: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting  (Read 3506 times)

merula

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Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« on: April 11, 2018, 08:28:15 AM »
I took a break from working on my bathroom (previously detailed in Tiling Tub Surround for a tile beginner), but now I'm back at it. Here's my plan, with questions at each step; any and all advice or tips would be most welcome.

Tub:
Tub refinishing guy is coming on Friday morning. Instructions are to clean the tub thoroughly, but nothing was said about the existing caulk. I'm assuming I should remove it and then recaulk when the tub is dry. Anyone have any experience with that?

Floor:
The existing floor was two layers of linoleum (~1990s and ~1960s), a layer of some sort of crumbling fiberboard, what appears to be roofing tar, the original hardwood floor, and a diagonal plank subfloor. I've pulled up the linoleum and fiberboard. My plan is to pull up the hardwood (carefully as I plan to save it), put down a 1/2" sheet of plywood (AC exterior grade per the John Bridge forum), then Redgard uncoupling membrane and 1" hex tile.

Any recommendations on removing hardwood while preserving the tongue and groove?

I'm getting some conflicting advice about the thickness of the plywood underlayment. The manufacturer instructions say it can be installed over the 5/8" plywood subfloor with 16" joist spacing. My diagonal planks are 5/8" and the joist dimensions show a favorable deflection for ceramic tile. I don't want to install directly on the diagonal boards, but a full 5/8" plywood layer would mean that I'd probably need to cut off the bottom of my door, which is less than ideal. Other sources are saying you should always use two layers plus the uncoupling mat: first layer 5/8" plywood over 16" joists or 3/4" over 24" joists, second layer minimum 1/2" but preferably 5/8".

Will the 5/8" diagonal planks plus 1/2" plywood plus uncoupling mat be OK? Joists are 2x8, 16" OC, 10' span, in good condition with a doubled joist directly beneath the center of the room.

Walls:
My current walls are super-awesome plastic tiles glued to the plaster with some incredibly tenacious glue. (Well, tenacious in terms of attaching itself to the plaster; far less so in attaching to the plastic tile.) My plan is to pop off the tiles and put up some wainscoting with a thin shelf on top.

Should I bother to scrape off the glue before hanging the wainscoting? Seems like a lot of work for minimal benefit.

There's a baseboard hot-water radiator along one wall. My plan was to remove the radiator cover and backing, repaint and reinstall as a 1-2 year fix until we do in-floor radiant heat. But I cannot for the life of me get the backing off of the wall. The internet is saying to take a reciprocating saw to it, but I'm worried that'd destroy it and I'd have to go buy brand-new $100 cover. Any alternative options?

Also, for the wainscoting, assuming I can't get pre-primed stuff, my plan is to cut, prime, paint, install, caulk/patch and touchup. But maybe I should paint after installing for a cleaner result?

Thanks!

Sibley

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 02:52:01 PM »
RE the plaster - ugh plastic tile. I hate people. I'd at least get the glue off enough to ensure that the wainscoting is even.

Painting - you can prepaint, however plan to do the last coat once installed. (prime + paint, install, then paint).

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 07:18:30 AM »
RE the plaster - ugh plastic tile. I hate people. I'd at least get the glue off enough to ensure that the wainscoting is even.

Painting - you can prepaint, however plan to do the last coat once installed. (prime + paint, install, then paint).

Thanks! So far, the glue is pretty even. (The tiles, for all their flaws, were installed evenly, and were probably very nice originally.) Maybe I could tack up the wainscoting, see if it looks level, and go from there?

lthenderson

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 07:34:22 AM »
Flooring - I've never used a decoupling membrane in a tiling application but my understanding is that it is installed over a minimum thickness plywood subfloor. Since your subfloor is composed of diagonal boards, I would think that a 1/4" sheet of plywood glued and screwed to your subfloor would be enough to install the decoupling membrane over it. I've always used 1/4" cement board over a plywood subfloor and never had a problem with cracking. But I live in an area where conditioned air is the norm for 90% of the year so there isn't a lot of contraction or expansion going on.

Wainscoting - I would quickly sand the glue using coarse sandpaper to get a flat, even surface so that blobs of glue don't telegraph through thin wainscoting. I usually paint it before I apply it and then use caulking to touch up the seams and nail holes and don't paint again. At worst case, I just touch up the paint as needed.

Removing hardwood floor - I generally start by selecting a board a foot in from the wall perimeter that will be sacrificed. I use a skilsaw set to the depth of the hardwood floor and make a couple cuts along the board about an inch from each edge. This allows you to pry up the center piece and then pull up the grooved piece. I then use a small prybar to remove the tongue piece with the the staples/nails. With one board removed, it is just a matter or gently prying on the next piece starting with the fastened tongue side of the plank being careful not to pull up too far and break off the tongue of the next piece.  It's a lot of work.

Carrie

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 07:38:48 AM »
You need to do the in-floor radiant heat before you put in your new tile floors. I don't think they're that expensive or complicated.

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 07:54:21 AM »
You need to do the in-floor radiant heat before you put in your new tile floors. I don't think they're that expensive or complicated.

This would be true if we were doing the electric heating pads, but the plan is to use the existing boiler to do a hydronic radiant heating system from underneath the subfloor similar to what MMM did here: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/02/16/the-radiant-heat-experiment/.

This is partially because of the efficiency of hydronic versus electric, partially because we want to keep the existing hardwood in most of the house, and partially because there are places we're going to need to continue to use baseboard hot-water heat (second floor and basement).

tralfamadorian

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 08:31:52 AM »
Are you sure you want to refinish the tub? I looked into doing this for one of my rentals and the price of refinishing, which I was told only lasts a few years, was just $75 less than a brand new american standard tub from lowe's.

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 08:48:59 AM »
Are you sure you want to refinish the tub? I looked into doing this for one of my rentals and the price of refinishing, which I was told only lasts a few years, was just $75 less than a brand new american standard tub from lowe's.

Interesting! In my case, the cost of the refinishing is slightly more than a brand-new tub without installation, but I hadn't heard anything about the refinishing lasting only a few years.

The refinisher I'm hiring offers a 5 year guarantee and expects it to last 7-10 years, and he has the testimonials that back that up. I really like the look and feel of the old cast-iron tubs, plus the "repair over replace" mindset, but I can see how others may come to a different conclusion.

Carrie

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 09:00:08 AM »
You need to do the in-floor radiant heat before you put in your new tile floors. I don't think they're that expensive or complicated.

This would be true if we were doing the electric heating pads, but the plan is to use the existing boiler to do a hydronic radiant heating system from underneath the subfloor similar to what MMM did here: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/02/16/the-radiant-heat-experiment/.

This is partially because of the efficiency of hydronic versus electric, partially because we want to keep the existing hardwood in most of the house, and partially because there are places we're going to need to continue to use baseboard hot-water heat (second floor and basement).
Oh ok, that make sense! I don't have a boiler or traditional foundation - sorry for my ignorance.  We've got slab on grade / gas heat.

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 09:27:00 AM »
Oh ok, that make sense! I don't have a boiler or traditional foundation - sorry for my ignorance.  We've got slab on grade / gas heat.

No worries, thank you for your perspective! I know most people don't have a boiler already, my house is very....unique.

I just had my tub refinished and it should last quite a while. I think it's even better with cast iron. Even if a brand new tub is only slightly more expensive it's a TON more work to remove the old and put in a new. Plus more wasteful :)
We did not remove the caulk before they came, we weren't told to and they didn't comment that we didn't. However we were told we had to wait 24 or 48 hours (I forget which) before re-caulking it. It looks soooo much better and was $375 well spent IMO. You house will reek for a day or so though, just a heads up

Like "man that smells" reeks or "probably no one should be breathing this, get your children out of the house" reeks?

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 02:08:03 PM »
Hubs was home when they did it and he said by the time I got home about 4 hours after they were done he couldn't smell it anymore. It turned my stomach though. I almost insisted that we go out for dinner but I ended up cooking and while I could still smell it by bed time it wasn't overpowering me anymore. My house is pretty small (<1000sqft) and the bathroom is right in the middle so a larger house might not have been so bad. I don't think it's harmful, just very strong. And we had it done when it was still pretty cold out so we couldn't just open the windows to air the place out

Our house is also pretty small (~1400 sq ft including upstairs) and this bath is in the center of the main floor.

And we're getting a snow storm starting Friday. I'm going to plan on going to my sister's for dinner.

Thanks for your insight!

jpdx

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 08:46:34 PM »
Following/inspired. I plan on doing a very similar project in my old house.

The issue that worries me the most: in a 1-bath house, how does your family function w/out a working bathroom during the renovation? I feel like a project of this scope would take me several weeks if working alone.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 08:58:44 PM by jpdx »

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 07:22:33 AM »
Update: the bathtub is refinished (looks great, though you can still see where the chip was if you look close), wainscoting is up and half-painted, subfloor and uncoupling membrane are installed and tiles are cut. I also did some rewiring to separate the bathroom light and fan into their own switches.

I learned how to use a pneumatic nail gun, a multi-meter and a electrician's fish tape!

Up next: installing the tiles, grouting, finishing the painting, installing wainscoting shelves and baseboard and repainting the walls.

I also need to find a way to extend the sink supply lines. The faucet has integrated supply hoses, and they don't quite reach the supply pipes when the sink is placed where I want to place it. It looks like all I need to do is buy a compression coupling and an extra hose and I should be good to go. Fingers crossed.

The issue that worries me the most: in a 1-bath house, how does your family function w/out a working bathroom during the renovation? I feel like a project of this scope would take me several weeks if working alone.

Luckily, I have another bathroom in the basement. It's the bare minimum of functionality, but it's a lifesaver for this project.

Some things you can do are reinstall the toilet every night (once you get the hang of it it's like 10 minutes to do), set up a camp shower in the basement (if you have a basement) or plan on showering at a friend's or the gym, etc.

You can also break the work up into pieces like I did. If you're working on the shower first, your sink/toilet will still be usable (if dusty). When you're working on the floor/walls, your shower will still be usable.

merula

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Re: Bathroom Saga Continued - Hex Tile Floor and Wainscoting
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 12:41:58 PM »
UPDATE - Very nearly finished. I've got some touchup and trim work left, but on the whole the project is done.

Thanks to everyone who contributed advice and kind words.