Bathroom remodel--new plumbing?

[john6221]

I have a basement bathroom that I'm starting to plan for remodel. It was finished in the 70s and needs an entire tear-down because:

-the previous owner couldn't use a level and the walls are not plumb, creating big gaps in the tile courses that he just filled with grout
-previous owner tiled the shower directly to the concrete slab floor. No shower pan, no water proofing, nothing. So the leaking over the years has rotted out the adjoining bottom plates.

My question is: while I have everything torn out, should I also tear up the slab and install new plumbing? It's a 1960s house so most likely cast iron down there now. I don't have any current problems with backups. But I feel like it would be smart to replace everything with PVC even though it would add cost.


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[KarefulKactus15]

The "while I'm at it" hole gets real deep real fast.     



Are you just replacing the section under the shower?

[SoundFuture]

The "while I'm at it" hole gets real deep real fast.     



Are you just replacing the section under the shower?

+1 for this. If you're not having issues, or do not have an extremely solid basis for soon-to-be-reality issues, I would avoid it if possible.

[BudgetSlasher]

The "while I'm at it" hole gets real deep real fast.     



Are you just replacing the section under the shower?

If that is the case, is there even a code compliant manner to connect a PVC pipe to cast iron under a concrete slab (I assume new concrete will be poured)?

[mires]

Best thing to do would be to have a plumber inspect it with a camera. I'm a plumber and use a camera all the time to inspect old drain lines during remodels. It's definitely worth the extra cost to check it out but I certainly wouldn't go breaking up concrete to redo the drains just because.

[ChpBstrd]

The answer is nope.

The old cast iron is likely to outlast new PVC. Show me something plastic and something cast iron that are each 80 years old!

Not to mention how you're on a concrete slab. No way I'd be jackhammering unless there's a big problem.

[john6221]

Ok thanks for the advice. I think I will have it inspected with a camera before deciding what to do next!

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[john6221]

So to do an inspection I need to open a clean out. This one is FROZEN. Any tips on how to get it open?

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[SoundFuture]

As a DIYer there are two options, professionals please over rule me as necessary.

1.  Remove any flammable debris nearby, put a heat shield (like a baking pan) to protect the flammable wall, make sure your fire extinguisher is handy and use a soldering torch to heat the cleanout evenly.  The idea here is to cause the expansion and contraction differences in the metal and rust/oxides to break some of the bonds and make it easier to remove. After it has taken some heat (not red hot, just hot), use a plumbing wrench on the male plug and a wrench on the outside fitting so you can get maximum force (feel free to use breaker bars if you have them and be careful).

If that doesn't work.

2.  Using a rust penetrant (my favorite is 50/50 Acetone and ATF), let it soak, and tap around the outside threads with a hammer to help the pentrant get into the threads (tap on both sides at once, and work your way around).  Using the same method with the plumbing wrenches get as much force as you can on it, feel free to phone a friend to help.

If you do get it off, replace the metal cap with a plastic one and use several wraps of teflon tape or a liberal amount of teflon paste to seal it so you won't have this problem again.

I take no responsibility for damage to yourself, your ego, property, or others.

[KarefulKactus15]

I wouldn't do the torch first unless your in a rush.   Start with penetrating oil.   Not wd40.   Buy a product made to break free rusty threads.   Follow the directions and let it do it's magic for like 2 days.   Re apply a couple times.          Also occasionally LIGHTLY tap the top of the cap with a hammer.   

Try to remove with wrench.       

If that doesn't work your left with the torch .    Please buy and use a real fire blanket , they are affordable, but do keep in mind sewer gases and other stuff when torching....   So don't go over the lower flammable limit for how much heat you apply to the pipe and cut the torch off when trying to open cap.

Also B4 you ask, the cheaper propane torch will be plenty hot enough.   You don't need the yellow tanks.

[SoundFuture]

Thanks Kroaler!   

[KarefulKactus15]

Thanks Kroaler!

I'm not a professional and only said the same thing you did in a different order.   Lol

[SoundFuture]

I'm not a professional and only said the same thing you did in a different order.   Lol

The $20 fire blanket and not shattering the cleanout by decking it with a hammer is solid advice.  The only reason I did it the other way is because you have to make sure you clean it well as rust penetrants are typically flammable and oil based. 

I would recommend Kano Kroil as a penetrant.  It's several dollars more than PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench but you typically pay back the money saved in blood, sweat, and tears. 

[paddedhat]

On the existing sub-slab drainage, I would rent a bore scope camera and take a look. Remember old cast can fail at the top of the pipe in a horizontal position. Condensation sits on the top of the pipe and slowly rots it, over decades. My parent's place was about  70-80 years old when all the horizontal cast began to fail.

On the "heatin' and beatin'" issue. First, never wack on anything cast iron unless you intend to break it, since that's what's going to happen next. Second, I have no experience with heating a cast fitting, but the trick to working in steel in this situation, is to heat the whole thing to loosen the rust, and get the penetrating oil to flow, then concentrate heat on one spot to expand one location. trying to heat the whole rim can be less effective. next, the plug looks like it's made to be opened with a bar stuck between the square pegs. A big J, crow, or pry bar might do the trick. Finally, if it all goes to shit, you can cut the damaged section out and replace it with a piece of PVC or ABS, using a pair of "Fernco" rubber couplings to complete the repair. Just remember, EVERYTHING about dealing with cast iron drainage sucks.

https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings

[robartsd]

If the cast iron does turn out to be needing replacement soon, you might consider trenchless pipe lining rather than digging it up to replace with PVC.

[Fishindude]

If things are in the right locations and the drain seems unobstructed, there is no point in changing out old cast iron drain lines.   Cast iron is good stuff, lasts a real long time without trouble, that's why they used it for so many years.   PVC Is cheaper, that's why is is the go to product today.

I wouldn't mess with that clean-out unless you are having problems, as you could break the fitting if you did things incorrectly.
If you must get it open, it might be worth spending a couple bucks with a plumber or sewer contractor to do it.

[mires]

No need to open that cleanout really. Just go down the toilet drain.