Baseboards and Trim- What am I in for?

[ThunderCats]

We've been living in our house for 3 years now, and I've been staring angrily at the baseboards since moving in.  There are random chunks missing throughout the house, areas of it are damaged in the corners, the previous owners extra special bright red paint is splattered all over them (it took 4 coats of primer when we painted the walls), and who ever installed it was a bit too fond of their nail gun.  Anyway, I've been stalling on this project for a couple of reasons: 1) I haven't had the time 2) I've been debating between repairing/replacing and 3)trying to figure out what I want to look for.

But this summer, for the first time since moving in, my husband will be off work and able to help with the kids (yay teacher schedule!), I have a miter saw, and I'm not heavily pregnant.  The stars appear to be in line.

So here are my concerns going forward: 1) We don't need to replace the flooring yet, but the carpet throughout the house is very thin, and we'll likely want to change it out within a few years as it wears.  Should this be prioritized before dealing with the baseboards?  2) What material is best to use?  My parents have oak in their house... and it's splintered and warped in some places (especially the bathroom).  Ours is MDF and looks like crap.  I want something that will look good and be durable even when my two year old decides that she needs to vacuum like Mommy and rams the vacuums into the baseboards.  I plan on painting the trim white, if that makes a difference.  3) In our kitchen and bathrooms (Vinyl flooring) there is a quarter round boarder on the bottom of the baseboard... is this necessary?  I hate the look of it, but have no idea why it's there. (though I might like it more if it wasn't covered in nail holes... who knows)  4) I've never done trim work before, so any general advice would be appreciated.  I'm also planning to trim the windows and doors throughout the house in something like a craftsman style.  So any advice on tackling this and getting it to look great, but keeping costs reasonable would be appreciated :-)

[Jack]

1. Personally, I'd do the floors and the baseboards at the same time. That way you don't have to worry about shoe molding, or using an oscillating saw to slice a thin piece of the bottom off.

2. If you plan to paint it, you can use stuff that's a lot cheaper than oak. (Namely, pine or "whitewood" or whatever -- the species might vary regionally.)

3. See answer #1: the quarter round is there because somebody re-did the vinyl and didn't want to cut off the bottom of the trim to tuck the vinyl underneath. So instead they just butted the end of the vinyl up against it and installed the quarter round to cover the ragged edge.

4. IMO there's a big difference between "something like X style" and "actual correct X style." Borrow the book Get Your House Right: Architectural Elements to Use & Avoid by Marianne Cusato et al. from your library to make sure you're actually installing trim with the appropriate profile and proportions. As for actually installing it, I can give little advice because I've never done so either. I've only watched it done on TV, and the main takeaway I got from that is to cope the inside corners instead of mitering them.

[Spork]

I, too, just detest shoe molding.  But it's very common.  Most often people put down molding first, then flooring, then put a shoe molding over the flooring.  It is flexible and will hide imperfections in the trim & floor.  Personally, I prefer a cleaner look.  I like the flooring down first, then a simple molding on top.

For paint grade, I generally use finger jointed pine.  It's not going to be as sturdy as a hardwood, but it's much sturdier than some of the fiberboard trim that seems common.  My entire house is done in very plain 1x6 for the base and 1x4 around doors/windows -- but that's going to be personal taste and you'll want to match the style of the rest of the house.

If you're doing a large chunk, it will be a thousand times easier if you get a finish nail gun (or even an 18ga brad gun).  Hand nailing and setting the nails with a nail set takes a lot of time. 

[shitzmagee]

We just re-did all the trim in our house so I have a few pieces of advice (from a DIY'er). First, learn how to back cut with a coping saw. Walls are never perfectly square so using a miter saw leaves you with corners that aren't always the best. After a few practice cuts, coping becomes fairly easy and gives you much tighter and cleaner looking corners. Second, use an adhesive (like liquid nails) AND a nail gun. The trim can become loose over time if you only use nails. Third, caulking is your friend. Use it to fill imperfections in joints and to fill nail holes. Once it's dry, just touch it up with white trim paint. Also put a tiny bead of caulk along the top of all the baseboards (I smoothed it out with my finger). This makes for a much cleaner look IMO. Without it, you'll see gaps between the trim and wall (walls are not perfectly flat). Finally, if you know you're going to replace the carpet, do it at the same time. You'll already have all the baseboards off. If you wait to do the carpet, you'll have to either rip the baseboards off later or end up using shoe molding.

[ThunderCats]

Jack: Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking that maybe I'll work on the door and window trims now (I also have 12 and a half doors to paint for this project), and hold off on the baseboards until we're ready to do the floors.  (maybe I'll just pick up a little cheap trim that matches what we have now to patch up the worst areas here and there... it'd give me a little practice anyway).

And I just requested the book you recommended from my library.  I've been doing a lot of online research... but it's been a mix between actual good advice and "I THINK THIS LOOKS PRETTY AND I HAVE A BLOG SO I'M GOING TO SHOW EVERYONE HOW TO DO SOMETHING I MADE UP!"

Spork: I'll look into the finger jointed pine... though I'm wanting something with a little more detail than plain 1x6's :-).  And I'll definitely be getting a finish nail gun... I'm hoping to redo the whole house and try to get rid of the "builders grade, fake-honey oak" vibe we've got going on here.

[ThunderCats]

shitzmagee: I've been looking at videos of how to cope corners.  I'm currently eyeing a half broken partially screwed on (at least the previous owners tried to reattach it...) piece of trim that is mostly hidden by our piano to practice on :-p

[Spork]

Third, caulking is your friend. Use it to fill imperfections in joints and to fill nail holes.

Yes on the joints.  I'd say don't use it to fill nail holes.  Caulk shrinks greatly.  Fill holes in wood with wood filler.  Otherwise you'll have a divot after everything dries.

[Metric Mouse]

If you're replacing the carpet, the trim can be done before the carpet. Baseboard trim needs to be in place and the carpet gets tucked underneath it. There will be no shoe molding with proper carpet installation.

[paddedhat]

As a custom homebuilder, here are the standards that my company followed for trim work, and a few comments about what has been posted so far. 95% of my homes had painted trim that was spray painted with the top coats, and was smooth as glass when finished.

The do list.
1-Use pre-primed, finger jointed stock. Not only is this stuff ready to paint, it typically really high quality, knot and defect free, and often manufactured from Poplar, which is a great hardwood for this application. We would lay all the material on sawhorses, out in the yard and spray one coat on it, before installation, then a second coat after it was installed. As a homeowner, I would definitely put one top coat on before installation, using a foam roller for the flat surfaces.
2-Purchase the entire job at once, from a local lumberyard. The big box stores can literally be priced double what I pay, if you head in for a few pieces at a time. Get a material list together, talk to the contractor sales desk at a local yard and tell them you are paying cash for the best price on all new  trim for your house.
3-Learn to cope corners. The technique involves a 45* cut on the face, flip the board, back-cut the material to remove most of the cope, leaving the shaped area, finish with a coping saw. Once you get the hag of it, it takes 2-3 minutes to product a quality job.
4-Only cope one end of a wall, the other butts into the drywall, or a door jamb leg. Cut the piece 1/16th long and spring it into place. This allows the fairly sharp cope to dig into the corner and look good, while staying tight.
5- Nail with an air-nailer. No exceptions, if you are going to re-trim a house buy one. Hand nailing of fingerjoint trim will not end well.
6- Find the studs and nail to every one. Use a stud finder, or pull a plate off an outlet and look for the stud that the box is nailed on. Find one stud and stretch a tape measure on the floor to indicate where all the other studs are. Shot the base to the wall by using the 16" marks on the tape as a guide.
7-Fill nail holes with quick drying drywall "patching" compound. This comes in little tubs and is perfect for this use.
8-Run a bead of latex painter's caulk on the top edge when you are done. Use a finger and a wet rag to tool the joint.

Don't list.

1- No MDF baseboard or casing ever. The stuff is shit, and not worthy of anything but kindling to start a campfire.
2- Never attach anything to a wall with construction adhesive unless there is nothing behind it to nail to. This stuff makes the paper face of the sheetrock and the trim one. If you have to remove it later, it will tear huge chunks out of the wall.
3- Avoid shoe mold and quarter round where possible. If the rooms are getting carpet, use 1/2" spacers to keep baseboard off the floor an provide a nice permanent groove to tuck carpet into. Hard floors should be trimmed after installation.

[lthenderson]

So here are my concerns going forward: 1) We don't need to replace the flooring yet, but the carpet throughout the house is very thin, and we'll likely want to change it out within a few years as it wears.  Should this be prioritized before dealing with the baseboards?  2) What material is best to use?  My parents have oak in their house... and it's splintered and warped in some places (especially the bathroom).  Ours is MDF and looks like crap.  I want something that will look good and be durable even when my two year old decides that she needs to vacuum like Mommy and rams the vacuums into the baseboards.  I plan on painting the trim white, if that makes a difference.  3) In our kitchen and bathrooms (Vinyl flooring) there is a quarter round boarder on the bottom of the baseboard... is this necessary?  I hate the look of it, but have no idea why it's there. (though I might like it more if it wasn't covered in nail holes... who knows)  4) I've never done trim work before, so any general advice would be appreciated.  I'm also planning to trim the windows and doors throughout the house in something like a craftsman style.  So any advice on tackling this and getting it to look great, but keeping costs reasonable would be appreciated :-)

1. If you are staying with carpet, you can replace the baseboard at any time and replace the carpet in the future without removing the baseboard. Only if you are going to a hard surface flooring would I consider doing the flooring first and then the baseboard.

2. If you are planning on painting, I just go with the cheap pine stuff. It is easy to work with and is easy on the pocketbook. I stay away from the hard styrofoam stuff that most home centers sell as the cheapest stuff. It generally comes pre-primed. I look for the stuff that specifically says primed pine or buy unprimed pine and do it myself.

3. I never use quarter round or shoe molding. I tear it up and leave it off. Generally I see it more where you have hard flooring and it covers up any gaps between the bottom of the trim and the flooring due to settling in the floor. Personally I don't spend much time looking down at where the wall meets the floor so any gaps become unnoticeable with time.

4. Paddlehat has great advice on trim work. I would watch some youtube videos on the subject and go to it. It is a great DIY project because it doesn't have an unforgiving time frame like curing adhesives or mortars to. You can take as long as you want and quit when you are ready for a break. If you are painting anyway, paintable caulking will hide a world of sins. I'm not sure if Paddlehat mentioned this but I generally like to prime and paint my trim before I install it. Then after it is installed you can fill the holes and touch up those places which is much much easier than trying to prime and paint the entire thing after it is installed.

[paddedhat]

Several comments speak of priming Pine trim. Markets vary, but in my region, Pine trim is graded as select and is generally top quality, defect and knot free. It is a stain grade product that is at least twice as costly as finger jointed, pre-primed material. If your next question is, "I'm using a 1x6 as a painted base, so now what?" The answer is that good lumberyards stock, or can order, any 1" boards as finger jointed, pre-primed and still save you a lot of money and time. To further clarify the value of putting a top coat of paint on the trim BEFORE installation, it can save time and give you a better job. One way this happens is that it eliminates tedious "cut in" of the bottom edge, while putting the final coat on. You can install base tight to tile and hardwood, then brush a finish coat on, without having to paint right down to the bottom edge, since it already has a prime and finish coat on.

[dess1313]

i got a house with horrible carpets, and baseboards painted to the wall. 

1.all baseboards got pulled off, carpet ripped out and walls painted.  baseboards were trashed due to their awful condition
2. walls painted and repaired, flooring laid
3. i like wood, especially stained wood.  i choose to do oak, which was cut to fit each room, then taken down stairs, stained, and taken back upstairs and installed only after all the other work was done. 

make sure you get a fine saw blade for your mitresaw, to reduce chipping/saw marks. 
if you're going to paint it, then nice oak is a waste likely. 
i don't have a clue why your parents place has splintered oak/warped oak.  i have had a fantastic time with mine and its 4-7 years old.  maybe it was a poor quality wood?
you may have a hard time finding matching style/size of what is already in the house.  if you can't match it it would likely be easier to just start from scratch.  a wider piece may help cover any defects from previous wild paint colors and such on the wall

[Shropskr]

MDF?

[Metric Mouse]

Medium density fiberboard.

[dess1313]

MDF?

Also known as sawdust glued together