Aquaponics Greenhouse Electricity

[Montecarlo]

Hi, made a short video to show my setup.  Could use some advice please!

Also consider a combination of propane heat and battery power (solar charged or batteries I would charge in the house) for the pumps.

Let me know what you think!

https://youtu.be/M0pPGT9ArYA

[Syonyk]

You're not asking for advice, you're showing off your dogs.

Pro tip: "Solar and batteries" is inferior to grid power for just about everything.  I say this having an off grid office that... might be under $1/kWh delivered, by now?  Maybe?

[Montecarlo]

I'm really leaning towards the solar though.

Cons:
$$$

Pros:
Easy
Fish won't die with a power outage

P.S. Glad you liked the dogs.

[Montecarlo]

Has anyone else done something similar - electrical to a detached structure?  Any thoughts or tips??

I'm about 75% done with the greenhouse and am going to start on the aquaponics system soon.

[Syonyk]

I'm really leaning towards the solar though.

Purely off grid solar?  Have you considered the generator for winter use?  I make a living in an off grid office, and roughly 45 weeks of the year are easy, 5 weeks are iffy, and 2 are "My panels produce nothing."  Think 300Wh for daily output from a 2280W nameplate array.  My solution is a generator, because sizing the battery for a week+ of use is not cost effective.

Put in a good inverter/charger with a transfer switch to drive the pumps, and some marine 12V batteries.  You'll come out cheaper and more reliable than solar, by far.

Has anyone else done something similar - electrical to a detached structure?  Any thoughts or tips??

Most of my solar writings are here: https://syonyk.blogspot.com/search/label/Solar%20Shed

If you have 24/7 loads, like pumps, use the power grid.

[BudgetSlasher]

Has anyone else done something similar - electrical to a detached structure?  Any thoughts or tips??

Most of my solar writings are here: https://syonyk.blogspot.com/search/label/Solar%20Shed

If you have 24/7 loads, like pumps, use the power grid.

I agree, running a buried conduit to from the house to the detached structure, driving a new grounding rod, and adding a sub-panel is going to be whole lot less work than solar (even if it is non-permitted, non-inspected, non-grid-tied).

Personally if gird power is available I wouldn't touch solar without a gird interactive setup and some sort of net metering setup (or other favorable credit system).

[Montecarlo]

Put in a good inverter/charger with a transfer switch to drive the pumps, and some marine 12V batteries.  You'll come out cheaper and more reliable than solar, by far.

Are you saying charge the batteries on the grid and bring them out to the greenhouse to swap as the ones in use get low?  I definitely like that idea.

[Syonyk]

Are you saying charge the batteries on the grid and bring them out to the greenhouse to swap as the ones in use get low?  I definitely like that idea.

No.  Use an Aims Power or similar inverter/charger.

Run grid power.  If grid is up, it charges the batteries and passes grid power through.  If power goes out, it switches to batteries, inverts, and runs the pumps from the batteries.  When the grid comes back up, it goes back to charging.

[Montecarlo]

No.  Use an Aims Power or similar inverter/charger.

Run grid power.  If grid is up, it charges the batteries and passes grid power through.  If power goes out, it switches to batteries, inverts, and runs the pumps from the batteries.  When the grid comes back up, it goes back to charging.

I've been reading some of your blog.  You're quite the renaissance man!

I think I want to design around 2 33W pumps and a LED bulb.  Call it 70W continuous, 150W max (one pump running, another starting).  2 days capacity is 3.4 kWh or 280 Ah@12v.  Getting 280 Ah in a Li-ion seems outrageously expensive, but reasonably cheap for lead acid.

I've already begun building the greenhouse.  Will finish today if weather cooperates.  Does my idea of running conduit along the eves make sense, and then buried from the house to the greenhouse?

[Papa bear]

Are those watts ratings for your pumps and lights based on 110 volts or 12? 

And if you go lead acid, I’m pretty sure you need to double your ah capacity as those batteries don’t do well dropping below 50% power. 


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[Syonyk]

My opinion on conduit under eaves doesn’t matter. It’s what your local code requires that matters.

And as for a 50% derating with lead, for infrequent standby use, it doesn’t matter. You’ll calendar life them out long before cycling them out unless power is spectacularly unreliable. There is no reason to use lithium for something like this, and you need a 24/48V system or LiFePO4 to get compatible voltages with lead acid inverters/chargers anyway.

For this use, a small 12V system and inverter would be fine. I would use flooded lead acid instead of sealed, but I don’t mind watering a battery occasionally either.

I’d use something like this: https://www.aimscorp.net/600-Watt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Charger-12V.html

For pumps, pure sine wave is going to be a good idea.

[Montecarlo]

Just finished the greenhouse!

@Syonyk if I am going to spend the $$ on batteries and inverters, what's the downside of going full on solar?

[Syonyk]

Local permitting requirements can be a pain.  Good luck, I’m taking a while off the internet for Lent.

[lthenderson]

Does my idea of running conduit along the eves make sense, and then buried from the house to the greenhouse?

What is in the basement on the side of the house where you plan to bring the electrical conduit down from the eaves and then trench it over to your greenhouse? In other words, why not just come out of your house over there versus stringing up all the conduit up, over and down on the outside of your house? It might be a lot easier to run the wire inside the basement over to that side and then straight out to your greenhouse. It would also make it much easier in the future to fish out another wire if needed.

[Montecarlo]

That side of the basement is finished completely.

I'm waffling between off grid solar and running the line. 

Did a lot math lately with size of the pumps, batteries, solar panels.  Basically everything has to be oversized.  Likely need 400W of solar generating capacity to run a 37W pump 24/7.  Had to triple check the math because I didn't really believe it.  So solar is going to be a much bigger PITA than I swagged it, which is what some other posters have warned me about.

Right now I am split between two plans.

A, from panel:

• Open up a trench in the drywall near the ceiling in the basement
• drill through the framing
• run romex on a new circuit to a junction box
• splice in waterproof cabling
• run in RMC to the greenhouse
• add in waterproof lightswitch and GFCI outlet

B, from panel:

• Drill out through masonry block to garage
• fish up behind the drywall up to the exposed rafters
• attach conduit to rafters with ubracket (trying to avoid drilling through the rafters)
• run back down through drywall to exit point (this gets me to the other side of the garage door where there is no patio slab)
• run romex on a new circuit to a junction box
• splice in waterproof cabling
• run in RMC to the greenhouse
• add in waterproof lightswitch and GFCI outlet

Problem with option B is the exit point is much further from the greenhouse than option A.  Advantage is no demo.  But I may want to run a second circuit along the same route as option A in the future to rewire the master bedroom, so I can kill two birds with 1 1/2 stones there.

I'm delaying the decision while reading NFPA 70 to get more up to speed.

[Montecarlo]

So I ended up running the line instead of doing the solar.  I sure learned a ton.  Working with RMC was very hard.  I wonder if it would have been better to rent a trencher, go 18" deep and just direct bury the line!