Author Topic: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?  (Read 1685 times)

BudgetSlasher

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
I'm just wrapping up a full DIY kitchen remodel and soon will be turning it over to the DW for touchup paint and molding (her domains). And have been plotting my next project for my free time; I like to switch between a vanity project (like the kitchen) and a utility project (like solar and insulation upgrades). It works out nicely as we get a nicer place to live and the unseen aspects get upgraded as well.

I've been considering looking at solar for several years and this may be the year we take the plunge; the federal tax credit starts to taper next year, the state has brought back net metering, and I should be free of the kitchen soon.

I've done most of the primary research, picked a place on the ground (compromise between shade, distance to house, terrain slope, and orientation to solar south), figured an ideal inverter setup (10kW solaredge with dc-optimizers), figured an ideal solar size (10 kW, more than we have used in the past, but with the new kitchen and lighting . . . any excess can be used to offset fuel oil heating costs), had an initial discussion with the CEO (beyond useless, except for the fact there is no "code" to build such an accessory structure to).

I still need to determine my racking choice (I am leaning towards Unirac GFT for price and fewer holes to dig, vs. say ironridge), I need to find an electrician willing to do the final connections (both for sign off and because it will have to be a line/load-side tap). I need to speak with the power company and figure out their exact requirements for inspection and sign off (though they are self-installed friendly, even their paper work has a self-install checkbox and I know of several people who have self installed).

I'd love to here from anyone who done something similar with what they wish they knew beforehand, any tips or tricks, and if it was worth it to them to DIY.


Syonyk

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4610
    • Syonyk's Project Blog
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2019, 10:55:45 PM »
Ask me next year?  I'm in the middle of the process, currently waiting for yet another round of denials from the local plans review people.

My office is purely off grid, too small to need any inspections, and works fine.  I wouldn't go with my style of mounts for it, though.  They're designed to swing, and... eh, don't build them that way.  Not worth the hassle and weak points (the hinge to crossmember connections are showing some signs of stress, and I'm going to pull one of the arrays down, and redesign the other, while switching to a third style for the bulk of the panels).

If you're just doing a grid tied system, it's a whole lot easier than what I'm doing.  I'm going with a ground mount system (16kW nameplate, give or take), but with east-west facing panels (longer solar day, better production on cloudy days), DC coupled to a 30kWh battery bank (for initial use - could increase later, but that covers my current desires for the battery bank), to a set of inverters that will let me run the house independent of the grid should I have the need to do so.  Plus some transfer switches on the house and the like to let me bypass the system if needed.  It's tricky, and I'm hoping the code guys give up in the next round or two and let me do it.  I'm certain they've never seen anything like it before.

My power electronics will be in a shed, dedicated to this purpose (it gets me a NEC 690.12 exemption from panel level shutdown electronics in NEC 2017).  The mounts will be large wooden A-frames (I tend to use wooden structures, painted, and it works fine out here) with Iron Ridge rails for the actual panel supports.

It sounds like you've done your research.  I'm not familiar with the DC optimizers (I'm going with just plain strings of panels, though I have the option to toss in Tigo optimizers later), but I assume they'll meet your rapid shutdown requirements through some mechanism.  If you're under NEC 2017, you'll need that if they run to the house for inverting.

Double check on the accessory structure code - if my mounts are >7' high, I need permits for them.  Since I won't be doing that, I don't - but if you're going with taller mounts, you may need some local signoff.  No idea where you live.

Check with the power company first.  They're going to be the limit on system size, more than anyone else.  I spent about a month and a half going around with my power company about my transformer size - the house transformer wasn't upgraded when we put our house in (should have been), so they were going to limit me to 15kW nameplate on a 15kVA transformer, even though it made no sense (I wouldn't have 15kW of inverter capacity).  I now have a much nicer 25kVA transformer outside, which won't blow up were I to actually use my 200A service (the longevity of a 15kVA transformer supplying 48kVA is... less than long).  Their self install checklist is helpful, but won't exempt you from meeting the workmanlike standards required in the NEC.

You'll also want to find that magical electrician who will sign off on homeowner work earlier rather than later, because they're rare beasts.  Most simply won't do that.  On the plus side, your wiring is fairly simple, so even having one do all the wiring work won't be hideously expensive.

I'm... roughly a college class worth of work into the project, and still hoping to get it done this year.  Because I'm doing something more complex than a simple grid tied system, I've been deep in the NEC (have a printed copy), lots of calls back and forth to various suppliers and manufacturers to work out some corner cases, and as noted, am going around with the plans inspection people about some stuff.  They don't tell you what they want, but are pretty clear I wasn't providing it.  Worst case, it goes online next year and I lose 4% of the return.

For me, DIY is both about learning more (I'll be an expert on this type of system, and will be well documenting the build on my blog), and about having something I can't get anyone to build for a price I can afford.  I'll have a $100k class off-grid capable system that can do load shifting and self consumption, for roughly want the local installers want for a grid tie system ($4/W was the rooftop system from some local installers, I'll be closer to $2-$2.50/W for the whole thing with the shed, batteries, etc).  I could do a basic grid tie system out here for about $1.25/W, but it's just not that interesting to me.  I'm not expecting my system to "pay off," but I'll have substantial grid independence, and the ability to optimize for whatever replaces net metering out here (it's going away soon, no idea what replaces it).  And, with the east-west panels, a production curve that far better matches consumption, both locally and of the grid at large.

So, all that said, your best bet is going to be talking to the people who have done it locally.  They'll be able to get you more useful local information.  I can tell you the name of the guy that all solar roads in Idaho lead to, but it probably won't help you much.

BudgetSlasher

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 09:18:25 AM »
Thanks for the input, its helpful to hear from others.

Ask me next year?  I'm in the middle of the process, currently waiting for yet another round of denials from the local plans review people.

Sorry to hear you're having issue with your permitting. I'm hoping to be online by the end of the year to take advantage of the the 30% (as opposed to 26% next year) tax credit.


[/quote]My office is purely off grid, too small to need any inspections, and works fine.  I wouldn't go with my style of mounts for it, though.  They're designed to swing, and... eh, don't build them that way.  Not worth the hassle and weak points (the hinge to crossmember connections are showing some signs of stress, and I'm going to pull one of the arrays down, and redesign the other, while switching to a third style for the bulk of the panels).[/quote]

I will be on grid, but when i try and talk to our code officer I am told and I quote "there is no code" so the structure will not be an issue. I will likely use one of the pre-engineered systems (currently I am leaning towards Unirac GFT 30 degree, I might loose a percent or two being not an ideal 40 for our location, but initial costs number of holes needed will be markedly less)

Quote
If you're just doing a grid tied system, it's a whole lot easier than what I'm doing.  I'm going with a ground mount system (16kW nameplate, give or take), but with east-west facing panels (longer solar day, better production on cloudy days), DC coupled to a 30kWh battery bank (for initial use - could increase later, but that covers my current desires for the battery bank), to a set of inverters that will let me run the house independent of the grid should I have the need to do so.  Plus some transfer switches on the house and the like to let me bypass the system if needed.  It's tricky, and I'm hoping the code guys give up in the next round or two and let me do it.  I'm certain they've never seen anything like it before.

I will be grid tied, we don't loose power for more than an hour or two a couple times a year due to our location, so a simple grid tied no battery system is the way to go. I will leave room for expansion when sizing conduits and the like (so if we add an EV or some form of electric heat I can offset that).

Quote
My power electronics will be in a shed, dedicated to this purpose (it gets me a NEC 690.12 exemption from panel level shutdown electronics in NEC 2017).  The mounts will be large wooden A-frames (I tend to use wooden structures, painted, and it works fine out here) with Iron Ridge rails for the actual panel supports.

I will probably steer away from wood, it just doesn't last as well (especially the new PT) here in New England.

Quote
It sounds like you've done your research.  I'm not familiar with the DC optimizers (I'm going with just plain strings of panels, though I have the option to toss in Tigo optimizers later), but I assume they'll meet your rapid shutdown requirements through some mechanism.  If you're under NEC 2017, you'll need that if they run to the house for inverting.

I have looked at so many items, I would have to triple check to be sure, but I believe SolarEdge addresses the rapid shut down requirements.

Quote
Double check on the accessory structure code - if my mounts are >7' high, I need permits for them.  Since I won't be doing that, I don't - but if you're going with taller mounts, you may need some local signoff.  No idea where you live.

And I quote my code officer when I asked what code I need to build to "there is no code." I will need a permit, but that is just a money maker for them and we are debating where a separate ground mount falls under their residential permit fee schedule or accessory building fee structure.

Quote
Check with the power company first.  They're going to be the limit on system size, more than anyone else.  I spent about a month and a half going around with my power company about my transformer size - the house transformer wasn't upgraded when we put our house in (should have been), so they were going to limit me to 15kW nameplate on a 15kVA transformer, even though it made no sense (I wouldn't have 15kW of inverter capacity).  I now have a much nicer 25kVA transformer outside, which won't blow up were I to actually use my 200A service (the longevity of a 15kVA transformer supplying 48kVA is... less than long).  Their self install checklist is helpful, but won't exempt you from meeting the workmanlike standards required in the NEC.

They are next on my list, there rules and the government body that over see them seem to make it pretty clear.

Quote
You'll also want to find that magical electrician who will sign off on homeowner work earlier rather than later, because they're rare beasts.  Most simply won't do that.  On the plus side, your wiring is fairly simple, so even having one do all the wiring work won't be hideously expensive.

I have one name that might be willing to do so, and I have a second lead (my BIL's wife's father is an electrician nearby who specializes in solar)

Quote
I'm... roughly a college class worth of work into the project, and still hoping to get it done this year.  Because I'm doing something more complex than a simple grid tied system, I've been deep in the NEC (have a printed copy), lots of calls back and forth to various suppliers and manufacturers to work out some corner cases, and as noted, am going around with the plans inspection people about some stuff.  They don't tell you what they want, but are pretty clear I wasn't providing it.  Worst case, it goes online next year and I lose 4% of the return.

I'm hoping to avoid that with my local authorities, but they only care about code and inspecting when it comes to septic field inspections; want to build a deck, that will be 7 cents a sq/ft and here is a catalogue for strong-ties have fun.

Quote
For me, DIY is both about learning more (I'll be an expert on this type of system, and will be well documenting the build on my blog), and about having something I can't get anyone to build for a price I can afford.  I'll have a $100k class off-grid capable system that can do load shifting and self consumption, for roughly want the local installers want for a grid tie system ($4/W was the rooftop system from some local installers, I'll be closer to $2-$2.50/W for the whole thing with the shed, batteries, etc).  I could do a basic grid tie system out here for about $1.25/W, but it's just not that interesting to me.  I'm not expecting my system to "pay off," but I'll have substantial grid independence, and the ability to optimize for whatever replaces net metering out here (it's going away soon, no idea what replaces it).  And, with the east-west panels, a production curve that far better matches consumption, both locally and of the grid at large.

I will probably stick with due south (or south-west as terrain dictates) simply due to cost and, grid-tied, and net metering. I am years into planning between projects

So, all that said, your best bet is going to be talking to the people who have done it locally.  They'll be able to get you more useful local information.  I can tell you the name of the guy that all solar roads in Idaho lead to, but it probably won't help you much.
[/quote]

Locally isn't really viable; all of the installation have been professional (town of 2.6k) and even asking the CEO questions tends to result in being referred to a professional installer (even when you say you are going to DIY).

El_Mariachi

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 10:29:02 AM »
I have been thinking a lot lately about a roof mount (only place I can put one that gets sun all the time) grid tie system

I am thinking it will both help my in the electrical department, but also thermally as the PV panels will absorb the light/energy and shade my roof, but not sure how well that will work out in real life

Cadman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 524
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2019, 01:14:14 PM »
Ground mount solar? I highly recommend it!

Here's a link to my build, 10kW SMA inverter and just over 10kw worth of panels. For a foundation I sourced 3.5" OD galvanized pipe from a local steel supplier and used the Ironridge mounting setup (a breeze to work with).   http://linearlook.com/solar/solar.html

Our panels are oriented due south and typically generate between 50-60kWh daily during the summer. The only time we ever hit 10kW instantaneous is on very sunny, very cold (<0F) winter days, so there's something to be said for sizing your array to drive into saturation if you have the space.

No DC Optimizers here. All our panels are in the same plane and no risk of shade.


BudgetSlasher

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 05:24:59 PM »
Ground mount solar? I highly recommend it!

Here's a link to my build, 10kW SMA inverter and just over 10kw worth of panels. For a foundation I sourced 3.5" OD galvanized pipe from a local steel supplier and used the Ironridge mounting setup (a breeze to work with).   http://linearlook.com/solar/solar.html

Our panels are oriented due south and typically generate between 50-60kWh daily during the summer. The only time we ever hit 10kW instantaneous is on very sunny, very cold (<0F) winter days, so there's something to be said for sizing your array to drive into saturation if you have the space.

No DC Optimizers here. All our panels are in the same plane and no risk of shade.

Thanks, I've added your post to my solar research folder.

Since this post is back up towards the top, I want to give an update.

We have decided not to proceed with solar at this time. That means we will miss the full 30% credit. Which in turns makes certain efficiency upgrades take higher priority of the to do list.

It wasn't solar that changed our minds right now. There have been some personal/family/careers changes and uncertainty in the past few months. These changes have changed our view that we will be in this house for the long term (possibly decades) to a very real possibility of moving (if not this year within the next several years). This makes some less expensive efficiency improvements (less expensive) and certain updates (easier to sell) more appealing at the moment.

Perhaps one day we will revisit this decision.

lutorm

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 831
  • Location: About the middle of Sweden
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 10:53:05 PM »
I would have considered a partial DIY when we installed our PV but inits infinite wisdom the State of Hawaii forbids any form of electrical work by anyone's not a licensed electrician. So that was a non-starter. I gather most other jurisdictions are less draconian about doing work on your own property...

zolotiyeruki

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5636
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Anyone of you DIY (most) of a grid tied ground mount solar array?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 01:48:11 PM »
I would have considered a partial DIY when we installed our PV but inits infinite wisdom the State of Hawaii forbids any form of electrical work by anyone's not a licensed electrician. So that was a non-starter. I gather most other jurisdictions are less draconian about doing work on your own property...
I want to add insulation to our attic, and there are rebates for it, but in order to qualify, you have to hire a contractor, which pretty much wipes out the savings. Such a bummer.