You'll Never Be Normal Again

[beav80]

I live in Ottawa, so that and this being an excellently written article made me want to be first here.  I think I probably know the theater (Gloucester) and the Dairy Queen (Hemlock and St. Laurent) in question which is eery but adds to the read for sure.

I'll splurge on a movie if it seems like it's worth seeing on a big screen, but I generally keep my concessions down to the beer that I always sneak in.  Europe wrecked me for no-alcohol movie trips. 

I've got friends who go out every weekend for a regular restaurant night to unwind from the week. From their description it seems like a full appetizer, dessert, and drinks affair and must ring in at about $80-$100 per trip, and then they talk about how saving is so hard.  Weird, you just spent $5000 a year on a restaurant.  It's that kind of tilted logic that makes me want to scream out loud and also laugh because getting ahead is so much easier than most people make it out to be.

I wish I had more Mustachian friends around so that I would be forced to raise the bar on being awesome but people who save and take pleasure in simple, free things are very few and far between.

[amyable]

I wish I had more Mustachian friends around so that I would be forced to raise the bar on being awesome but people who save and take pleasure in simple, free things are very few and far between.

I think a lot of people are just waiting for a suggestion to do something different;  many people like simple things but aren't creative and don't want to be thought of as eccentric.  If you take the first step, the pressure is off of them.

[arebelspy]

This was a fun blog post.  A well told story, I was hoping someone would bring it up so we could discuss other crazy anecdotes (and, of course, the AniMustachianism Around the Web section of the forums has lots more examples).

We've all had moments, I'm sure, where someone's behavior is so unmustachian it makes one go "Ow! My head hurts!"

Here's one that drives me nuts off the top of my head:  When people sit with vast reserves of cash (far beyond what they'd need for an emergency fund) while carrying consumer (credit card) debt.  Not only is their money not invested, so they're losing 2-3% per year in purchasing power due to inflation, but they're paying 12-20% for the privilege of doing so!  Ugh ugh ugh.

[CatM13]

Here's one that drives me nuts off the top of my head:  When people sit with vast reserves of cash (far beyond what they'd need for an emergency fund) while carrying consumer (credit card) debt.  Not only is their money not invested, so they're losing 2-3% per year in purchasing power due to inflation, but they're paying 12-20% for the privilege of doing so!  Ugh ugh ugh.

Have you been talking to my mother? She is doing this exact thing and I can't for the life of me convince her she comes out ahead by using the money in the bank to pay off the credit card. Last week (she came for a visit) I found out that she is saving that money in the bank for my sister, my daughter (her only grandchild) and me. I told her we didn't need the money, she did and to pay off that bill. Let's see if she will.

[tooqk4u22]

I definitely related to that post - I have plenty of spendy friends and sometimes my head hurts to hang out with them.  I try to do the normal alternatives (at the house BBQ, etc) but friends just wanna go out.  I wish they had the separate check thing here, that would make it so much easier.  It ruins the night when the bill comes and someone says lets just split it - ummm you had four beers, an appetizer, a filet, desert and I had a steak salad - it can really ruin an overall good night.  But in spirit of full disclosure to avoid the risk of ruining the night, there are some friends that I end up just following suit so that when it is time to split the bill it is at least relatively equal.

More often than not friends think think I am either cheap or poor, or both. I am ok with that.

[happy]

The problem with the "split the bill" norm, is that I think some people will order more than they would normally. Because everyone else is ordering up, and at the end of the feast the bill will be split, it encourages people to keep up or  "get their share", otherwise they are paying for others.  Hmmm at least a moustachian portion if 'splitting" reduces the average a bit.

[MooreBonds]

Here's one that drives me nuts off the top of my head:  When people sit with vast reserves of cash (far beyond what they'd need for an emergency fund) while carrying consumer (credit card) debt.  Not only is their money not invested, so they're losing 2-3% per year in purchasing power due to inflation, but they're paying 12-20% for the privilege of doing so!  Ugh ugh ugh.

Have you been talking to my mother? She is doing this exact thing and I can't for the life of me convince her she comes out ahead by using the money in the bank to pay off the credit card. Last week (she came for a visit) I found out that she is saving that money in the bank for my sister, my daughter (her only grandchild) and me. I told her we didn't need the money, she did and to pay off that bill. Let's see if she will.

Better yet...tell your mom you need 80% of the cash in her checking account immediately. Whatever money she gives you, deposit it and immediately write a check to her credit card company (if you can discreetly find out what her account number is).

[arebelspy]

The problem with the "split the bill" norm, is that I think some people will order more than they would normally. Because everyone else is ordering up, and at the end of the feast the bill will be split, it encourages people to keep up or  "get their share", otherwise they are paying for others. 

A tragedy of the commons that encourages consumerism, overconsumption, and waste.  Yikes.

[gooki]

I'm trying to avoid the double treat/gifting scenario. I failed miserable at this for my wife's birthday. I seldom have good ideas and this year I had three so did them all. Two of them were purchases of the internet, that of course didn't arrive in time, so the remaining one she did get, she was thrilled with, the rest just seemed indulgent and upping the expectations of future gifts.

[gooki]

I think I'd have a financial heart attack living in America where split bills and tipping are the normal.

[grantmeaname]

Tipping makes the food proportionally cheaper because the business owner has to pay less of the labor cost. You're not really paying more, you're just getting to modify part of the cost based on your satisfaction.

[amyable]

  It ruins the night when the bill comes and someone says lets just split it - ummm you had four beers, an appetizer, a filet, desert and I had a steak salad - it can really ruin an overall good night.  But in spirit of full disclosure to avoid the risk of ruining the night, there are some friends that I end up just following suit so that when it is time to split the bill it is at least relatively equal.

This has got to be regional (or my friends are just poor and eat at cheap places).  Here, when you ask for a bill to be split, the restaurant splits it by what you actually ordered.  I've never been anywhere where they totaled the bill and then split it evenly!  Crazy!     

[Osprey]

More often than not friends think think I am either cheap or poor, or both. I am ok with that.

Lol good for you, nice attitude! There's more discrimination towards people whose jobs are perceived to be high-paying though. Heh.

Eating out and going to the movies are the two biggest examples of adult peer pressure, I think. Thankfully it's normal where I live for each person to pay for what they ordered. Maybe the people here are just polite/generous in nature because there's usually a large tip due to everyone rounding up.

I've been trying to meet friends after or before the movie (and opt out on the movie itself) even if it's for coffee in the mall. It cuts out the crappy headache-inducing (for me) movie experience/expense but you still get the face-time. Once or twice a year I'm dying to see a certain movie and for that specific time it's really enjoyable to go to a cinema with other fans. The King for a Day concept in action!

On another note, it's sometimes difficult to remain open-minded about how others use their time-money. This is maybe how super religious people must feel when they're itching to convert somebody. Yuk.

[arebelspy]

  It ruins the night when the bill comes and someone says lets just split it - ummm you had four beers, an appetizer, a filet, desert and I had a steak salad - it can really ruin an overall good night.  But in spirit of full disclosure to avoid the risk of ruining the night, there are some friends that I end up just following suit so that when it is time to split the bill it is at least relatively equal.

This has got to be regional (or my friends are just poor and eat at cheap places).  Here, when you ask for a bill to be split, the restaurant splits it by what you actually ordered.  I've never been anywhere where they totaled the bill and then split it evenly!  Crazy!   

That's what happens when you ask the server to split it.  I think what they're talking about is when you don't ask and the server gives you all one big bill and someone in your party says to split it evenly.

[gooki]

Tipping makes the food proportionally cheaper because the business owner has to pay less of the labor cost. You're not really paying more, you're just getting to modify part of the cost based on your satisfaction.

I understand the concept, but from my brief experience with tipping in Germany, I sure as hell felt like I was paying unnecessarily more (comparing cost of eating in The Netherlands where it isn't the cultural norm to tip). Maybe it is different in America.

Gah, this conversation has just reminded me of the best sandwich I have ever eaten.

[smedleyb]

My philosophy is, if you can't split the bill evenly/approximately without having the waiter methodically break down the bill to reflect exactly what you ate/drank, then, well, maybe you shouldn't be going out to lunch/dinner with that group of people and just stay home. 

[boy_bye]

My philosophy is, if you can't split the bill evenly/approximately without having the waiter methodically break down the bill to reflect exactly what you ate/drank, then, well, maybe you shouldn't be going out to lunch/dinner with that group of people and just stay home.

slippery slope, this. if everyone orders approximately the same meal/drinks combination, of course it's no big deal (that's the boat my friends and i are usually in.)

but if one person orders a steak and an appetizer and several cocktails and the other orders a more modest entree and drinks club soda or something, there can be $50 or more difference between the checks per person, even more with tip. so unless i'm willing to pay $30 more than what i actually consumed, i shouldn't even go out to dinner?

[smedleyb]

My philosophy is, if you can't split the bill evenly/approximately without having the waiter methodically break down the bill to reflect exactly what you ate/drank, then, well, maybe you shouldn't be going out to lunch/dinner with that group of people and just stay home.

slippery slope, this. if everyone orders approximately the same meal/drinks combination, of course it's no big deal (that's the boat my friends and i are usually in.)

but if one person orders a steak and an appetizer and several cocktails and the other orders a more modest entree and drinks club soda or something, there can be $50 or more difference between the checks per person, even more with tip. so unless i'm willing to pay $30 more than what i actually consumed, i shouldn't even go out to dinner?

If the person who ordered all the extra food can't estimate that's he's way over what everyone else ordered and kick in the extra, then I'm saying you shouldn't go out to dinner with that person again, ever.  In fact, I already do this by segregating which friends pony up (we hang out at restaurants with these people) vs the ones who skimp out (we'll go casual meet-ups at each other's houses or out for the occasional drink).

I've been around restaurants my whole life and find the methodical breakdown of a bill to the last penny to be anal beyond comprehension; if every dime means that much to you, stay at home and cook.  Meet up for drinks later if you really need to socialize. 

[Guitarist]

Tipping makes the food proportionally cheaper because the business owner has to pay less of the labor cost. You're not really paying more, you're just getting to modify part of the cost based on your satisfaction.

I understand the concept, but from my brief experience with tipping in Germany, I sure as hell felt like I was paying unnecessarily more (comparing cost of eating in The Netherlands where it isn't the cultural norm to tip). Maybe it is different in America.

Gah, this conversation has just reminded me of the best sandwich I have ever eaten.

You aren't supposed to tip in Germany. Now, if the bill comes in at 93 Euro or something, it is normal to hand over 100 and call it good. But there isn't a stigma attached to not tipping 15-20%.

[Richard3]

My philosophy is, if you can't split the bill evenly/approximately without having the waiter methodically break down the bill to reflect exactly what you ate/drank, then, well, maybe you shouldn't be going out to lunch/dinner with that group of people and just stay home.

slippery slope, this. if everyone orders approximately the same meal/drinks combination, of course it's no big deal (that's the boat my friends and i are usually in.)

but if one person orders a steak and an appetizer and several cocktails and the other orders a more modest entree and drinks club soda or something, there can be $50 or more difference between the checks per person, even more with tip. so unless i'm willing to pay $30 more than what i actually consumed, i shouldn't even go out to dinner?

That;s where having friends with an understanding of probability comes in very handy:

http://messymatters.com/expectorant/

[JJ]

Tipping makes the food proportionally cheaper because the business owner has to pay less of the labor cost. You're not really paying more, you're just getting to modify part of the cost based on your satisfaction.

I understand the concept, but from my brief experience with tipping in Germany, I sure as hell felt like I was paying unnecessarily more (comparing cost of eating in The Netherlands where it isn't the cultural norm to tip). Maybe it is different in America.

Gah, this conversation has just reminded me of the best sandwich I have ever eaten.

As a pom, now Aussie who's spent a bit of time in the US (CA, GA, CO, FL - all work), I can say that the pricing, bill splitting and tipping process in the US is vastly superior than either the UK or Australia or most of the other places I've been (that's quite a few - I used to fly to some weird places around the world working in the mining industry).  By and large it just works how you would want it to - easy to split on what you ordered, easy to combine, attentive service.  The meal and drink prices are so much lower than in Oz that adding 15-20% for good service still leaves you ahead and feels nice to do too.

[arebelspy]

My philosophy is, if you can't split the bill evenly/approximately without having the waiter methodically break down the bill to reflect exactly what you ate/drank, then, well, maybe you shouldn't be going out to lunch/dinner with that group of people and just stay home.

slippery slope, this. if everyone orders approximately the same meal/drinks combination, of course it's no big deal (that's the boat my friends and i are usually in.)

but if one person orders a steak and an appetizer and several cocktails and the other orders a more modest entree and drinks club soda or something, there can be $50 or more difference between the checks per person, even more with tip. so unless i'm willing to pay $30 more than what i actually consumed, i shouldn't even go out to dinner?

That;s where having friends with an understanding of probability comes in very handy:

http://messymatters.com/expectorant/

Damn, what an amazing evolution of credit card roulette!  Thanks for sharing!

[Richard3]

Yeah. Good luck explaining it to people who aren't mathematically literate (or hate gambling) though :(