Author Topic: Cyclocroft  (Read 2173 times)

WoodStache

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Cyclocroft
« on: February 22, 2019, 07:47:43 AM »
Am I missing the discussion on this? Figured this thread was the best place for it but please direct me if it has been posted elsewhere.


MMM tweeted about Jonestown Cyclocroft recently, including some designs being drawn up. Is this an actual thing that's happening or just a thought experiment? The tweet in question ask if you'd move there if we build it, which makes it sound like an actual project

https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/1096078409568989184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Amrmoneymustache%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrmoneymustache.com%2F


haflander

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2019, 09:50:51 AM »
...seriously? You reference and link his tweet. Did you even look at the whole tweet?

He calls it "a fictional design exercise" IN THE TWEET YOU LINKED.

The Jonestown attempt of a joke (?) is a swing and a miss as well, strike 2. One is a master planned cult community in the real world that resulted in nearly 1000 dead. One is a fun bike-minded city idea designed online.

WoodStache

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2019, 02:40:41 PM »
...seriously? You reference and link his tweet. Did you even look at the whole tweet?

He calls it "a fictional design exercise" IN THE TWEET YOU LINKED.

The Jonestown attempt of a joke (?) is a swing and a miss as well, strike 2. One is a master planned cult community in the real world that resulted in nearly 1000 dead. One is a fun bike-minded city idea designed online.

Calm down there, bud. Yes, I looked at the tweet. But he also asks a non-rhetorical sounding question. And in the past he has mentioned wanting to build a bike Utopia as the end goal of all this blog money. Pete has mentioned it on podcasts and I believe on this site. That wasn't a swipe, it was an actual question. I don't think Cyclocroft in that exact design is literally going to happen, but it seemed to me that Pete was gauging actual interest. 

As for the joke, we literally refer to this place as a cult. Again, Pete does too. He has said a hundred times that he accidentally started a cult. That's the beginning and end of the joke, I don't actually think MMM is going to murder people.

This is the MMM forum, I'd imagine the base assumption would be that 95% of the people here are pro-mustachian.

WoodStache

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 07:17:56 AM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/mmmtopia-pete's-going-big!/

Thanks! Didn't know where to put this, wasn't really a blog convo per se but I consider the twitter an extension of this website.

Jon Bon

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 01:15:10 PM »
I think it is kind of a stupid idea......

Honestly, because ANY type of city you centrally plan like this is gonna be bad ass is it not? If can turn on the simcity 2000 generator you can make the city run on Cars, Bikes, Horses, Subway, Helicopter, etc.

No one builds a city this way because no one can afford too. I can't build a whole city and hope a bunch of bike loving people move in. So you build something small and people move in and they decide on what kind of transportation network gets built over time.

That being said I like this idea, but what would happen in real life I believe would defeat the purpose.

So in my example MMM finds like a billion dollars to build this and does. And its every bit as awesome as we all want it to be. HOWEVER because its awesome people want to be near it. All the outlying areas get bought up and suburban family homes are put in, followed shortly by strip malls and big box stores. Thus like every other city in america. Are not most city centers already like this? Yes they have cars but no one wants to be actually driving around in downtown unless they have too.


Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 06:35:38 AM »
I think it is kind of a stupid idea......

Honestly, because ANY type of city you centrally plan like this is gonna be bad ass is it not? If can turn on the simcity 2000 generator you can make the city run on Cars, Bikes, Horses, Subway, Helicopter, etc.

No one builds a city this way because no one can afford too. I can't build a whole city and hope a bunch of bike loving people move in. So you build something small and people move in and they decide on what kind of transportation network gets built over time.

That being said I like this idea, but what would happen in real life I believe would defeat the purpose.

So in my example MMM finds like a billion dollars to build this and does. And its every bit as awesome as we all want it to be. HOWEVER because its awesome people want to be near it. All the outlying areas get bought up and suburban family homes are put in, followed shortly by strip malls and big box stores. Thus like every other city in america. Are not most city centers already like this? Yes they have cars but no one wants to be actually driving around in downtown unless they have too.

For a city that's supposed to house 50,000 people, plus restaurants, stores, offices, and parks, your billion-dollar estimate is way under-shooting the capital required. That's only $20,000/person for infrastructure. I know that's kind of beside the point, but we're talking tens of billions of dollars here at least. It takes decades to develop a square mile of land in a single master-planned low-density development. I can't imagine the time required for a high-density development.

I still think it's a cool idea, but that's all that it is: an idea.

OtherJen

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 06:55:40 PM »
The representative map image he used for suburban Detroit in this post cracked me up. I live within 5 miles of that section of land. Its not zoned for residential; its part of the Ford Motor Company headquarters. Of course its geared for cars. At least he didnt choose the nearby vehicle test track complex.

If hed gone 2 miles north/northwest, hed have ended up in downtown west Dearborn, which is full of moderately sized historic homes on small lots, condos, townhomes, and high-rise senior apartments in very walkable grid neighborhoods with sidewalks, a city library branch, multiple grocery and produce stores, locally owned hardware, art, and music shops, non-chain or local chain restaurants of several ethnicities and price points, parks, public and private schools, churches, trails along the river and through a wooded area to the local state university campus, and the John Dingell transit center, where one can get on a train to Chicago or catch both local and express buses.

How do I know? I grew up there. When we sell our current house, Id like to move back there.

Moonwaves

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 12:51:21 AM »
He wrote a blog post about it, too, since so many people seemed determined to believe he meant it as something other than a good thought exercise: "and I put them up on Twitter with a comment about how theyre fictional but boy wouldnt this be a nice way to use a single square mile compared to what we do right now"

bacchi

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2019, 02:14:21 PM »
Seaside, Florida, started as an experiment of sorts. The land used (80 acres) was inherited and the architects and designers codified their desire for a traditional beach town.

It ended up being a cool town but expensive and with few jobs. That might be ok since a lot of mustachians wouldn't need full-time employment and if there's a maximum house size rather than a minimum house size, housing could be smallish, which would further reduce expenses for everyone.

BTDretire

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Re: Cyclocroft
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 06:47:23 AM »
I think it is kind of a stupid idea......

Honestly, because ANY type of city you centrally plan like this is gonna be bad ass is it not? If can turn on the simcity 2000 generator you can make the city run on Cars, Bikes, Horses, Subway, Helicopter, etc.

No one builds a city this way because no one can afford too. I can't build a whole city and hope a bunch of bike loving people move in. So you build something small and people move in and they decide on what kind of transportation network gets built over time.

That being said I like this idea, but what would happen in real life I believe would defeat the purpose.

So in my example MMM finds like a billion dollars to build this and does. And its every bit as awesome as we all want it to be. HOWEVER because its awesome people want to be near it. All the outlying areas get bought up and suburban family homes are put in, followed shortly by strip malls and big box stores. Thus like every other city in america. Are not most city centers already like this? Yes they have cars but no one wants to be actually driving around in downtown unless they have too.
https://oldmangravel.wordpress.com/2019/02/23/why-i-think-cyclocroft-is-a-really-bad-idea/