Author Topic: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach  (Read 5122 times)

dcheesi

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A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« on: May 17, 2018, 08:22:07 AM »
No love for this one yet? I suppose the topic is already covered in threads like this one, but this post and MMM's diet approach in particular really resonated with me, so I wanted to post my thoughts.

Even though I'm very much a "live to eat" person, I'm also an engineer with a need to watch his wallet and waistline. So during the work-week, I follow an "optimized" plan that echoes MMM's in a lot of ways, including the avoidance of carbs in the morning. I also try to avoid combining foods that might neutralize each others' health benefits (e.g., dairy protein binds up a lot of good plant compounds, including the ones in coffee).

Here's what I've been doing most days:
  • "Breakfast": black coffee (I'm slow to wake up, and so is my stomach, so I don't really need calories this early)
  • Mid-morning: more black coffee (sometimes decaf), with a handful of unsalted deluxe mixed nuts (Sam's Club or Aldi bulk containers)
  • Lunch: cup of yogurt, preferably no-sugar-added Greek-style
  • Afternoon: fruit (lately a lot of dried berries for convenience; they have added sugar, but I don't eat a full serving so it's not enough to worry about)
  • Dinner: free-play (this is usually my larger "real" meal for the day)

Now, two issues immediately pop out here:
  • There are no veggies in this list, so it's all dependent on my dinner choices to get that in
  • Lunch is a little on the "light" side in terms of bulk, even though the dairy protein is enough to satisfy me metabolically
To remedy this, I've just recently started trying to make small salads to bring to work. The plan is to eat the salad for "Elevensies" and still have my yogurt in the early afternoon for a late lunch/dessert. I already tended to eat my fruit late in the afternoon[1], so this modification should work well with that.

[1 - to boost my energy at the end of the work day, and to stave off evening hunger until I've had time to get home and start making dinner]

It's too soon (and too much of life intervening) to say how well this new addition will work, but I'm optimistic. At the very least, it should keep me from spending stupid money on vending machines or overpriced cafe salads when the yogurt didn't quite do the job.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 08:31:29 AM by dcheesi »

spookytaffy

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 09:06:41 AM »
Do you have a particular brand of sugar free yogurt?  I am restricting my carbs and can't find one that's low enough and I really miss my Greek yogurt!

dcheesi

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 09:50:33 AM »
Do you have a particular brand of sugar free yogurt?  I am restricting my carbs and can't find one that's low enough and I really miss my Greek yogurt!
I've been doing the Oikos "Triple Zero" stuff, which only has the residual sugars from the yogurt itself (about 6g per cup), no added sugar. They do add 6g of fiber (chicory root), which artificially inflates total carb count (14g), but most carb-limiting plans I've tried excluded or otherwise accounted for fiber differently anyway.

There's also a Carbmaster brand "cultured dairy blend" sold by certain (Kroger-owned?) supermarkets, which is even lower in carbs. I haven't tried these yet, though I might do so since they appear to be cheaper.

4alpacas

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 10:02:18 AM »
Do you have a particular brand of sugar free yogurt?  I am restricting my carbs and can't find one that's low enough and I really miss my Greek yogurt!
I don't count carbs, but I do try to limit the added sugar I eat.  I like plain Greek yogurt (full fat) with a bit of fruit added (banana and unsweetened coconut is my favorite combination).

mm1970

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 01:43:40 PM »
I have regular, repeatable eating habits

1.  Breakfast: coffee with milk and stevia.  And one of the following:
- oatmeal (1/4 c dry) with banana, milk, and peanut butter
- 2 fried eggs and 2 corn tortillas
- 3/4 plain yogurt with 1 cup berries and some nuts or granola
- 1 fried egg and a slice or 2 of gluten free bread
- overnight oats

2.  Snack: 1 to 2 a day. 
- Fruit and nuts
- veggies and hummus
- cooked veggies with tahini sauce

3.  Lunch: Salad.  I have a 4 cup container.  Hard raw or cooked veg on the bottom, whatever we have.  Right now radishes and carrots.  3-4 sliced olives.  Sometimes 1/2 to 1 oz of cheese, sometimes small avocado.  Stuff the rest of the container with greens - combo of mixed baby (spinach, arugula, baby kale, baby chard, baby lettuce) and lettuce.  2 Tbsp sunflower seeds.  1.5 Tbsp homemade dressing made with olive oil.  So, I don't skimp on the fat in my salads.  Occasionally will have some extra protein in there, maybe 1/5 days.  This could be canned salmon, sliced turkey, beans, beans&brown rice, eggs.

4.  Dinner:  Roughly a cup of vegetables with olive oil, 1-2 servings of carby foods depending on how hungry I am, 1/2 c protein.

Examples:
- Pasta with veggies and meatballs and cooked broccoli
- Beans & rice (I count beans as the protein) with yummy toppings (avo, salsa, cheese, sour cream) with kale chips
- Mac and cheese and a cooked vegetable
- Fried rice (sometimes vegan, sometimes with eggs, sometimes with chicken), and stir-fried veggies.  It's delish drizzled with tahini and sriracha
- lentil soup and salad
- grilled salmon with asparagus and potato
- chicken enchiladas

The important thing to me is the proportion - half the plate is veggies for dinner, and 3/4 at lunch.  I also have a FT job and 2 kids, so I meal prep on the weekend.  I generally cook 2 big meals and we alternate for a total of 5-6 days.  One of the meals is vegetarian or vegan (bean based), the other has some kind of animal protein.

DarkandStormy

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 07:16:57 AM »
The article surprised me a bit since MMM seems more like an environmentalist (or close to it) at heart, but his dietary choices don't reflect that because he's bought into the protein myth.

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/2/5865109/study-going-vegetarian-could-cut-your-food-carbon-footprint-in-half

http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk/vegetarian-starter-kit-protein

dougules

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 10:42:04 AM »
It sounds really boring to eat the same thing day in and day out.  Eating a varied diet is one of the last luxuries I think I'd give up.  It also works well with eating seasonally because just when you start to get tired of a food, it goes out of season and another one comes in. 

Those who do eat the same thing every day, how do you not get bored?

It would be more interesting if he detailed what Mrs. MM generally ate. 

mm1970

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 02:05:21 PM »
The article surprised me a bit since MMM seems more like an environmentalist (or close to it) at heart, but his dietary choices don't reflect that because he's bought into the protein myth.

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/2/5865109/study-going-vegetarian-could-cut-your-food-carbon-footprint-in-half

http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk/vegetarian-starter-kit-protein

He also hasn't bought into the vegan myth, and "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough" or the "black/white" thing.

Considering the fairly detailed analysis he did, and has done in the past, I'm going to go with this:
1.  He knows what works for his body.  He's discussed this before, how he feels better on a more Paleo-ish diet.
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

I realize that a lot of people like the "black/white" and "right/wrong" (about any topic under the sun) because...it's easy.  It doesn't require a whole lot of thought, or empathy, or the ability to understand others and put yourself in their position.  That doesn't make it right though.  If you're happy on a vegan diet, have at it.  If you want to save the planet you'd be MUCH better off staying away from extremism and convincing the vast majority of moderates to decrease their meat intake.  Or to source it responsibly.

It sounds really boring to eat the same thing day in and day out.  Eating a varied diet is one of the last luxuries I think I'd give up.  It also works well with eating seasonally because just when you start to get tired of a food, it goes out of season and another one comes in. 

Those who do eat the same thing every day, how do you not get bored?

It would be more interesting if he detailed what Mrs. MM generally ate.

You get used to it.  I make 2 things a weekend and we repeat, and someone recently told me that that's a horrible thing to do to my kids.  Why?  It's healthy, and it's food.  We eat seasonally - but I eat salad for lunch every day.  In the winter, it's a lot of lettuce and kale, with oranges and a parsley garlic vinaigrette.  This week: with beets and goat cheese.  In the summer?  Mostly cucumber/ tomato salads.

Why does food have to be exciting?

Don't get me wrong.  I like food.  I like to cook.  But decades ago I was fat.  Why was I fat?  Well, I ate too much.  One of the things was - I loved food.  I loved homemade burritos.  I loved homemade pizza.  Then I realized...I needed to stop looking at each meal as if it was my last.  I can eat burritos every day.  Or pizza every day.  I don't need to eat half a pizza - a slice is fine.  I can taste it again tomorrow!

I think that I was in the same place as you, wanting food to be interesting, when I was in my 20s.  So I ate out a lot - that's how I got variety!  Sandwiches, burritos, stir-fry, Indian, middle eastern.  You hear it all the time from people who eat out a lot because carrying your lunch is "boring".  Well, when I was a kid I ate cereal for breakfast and a sandwich with fruit for lunch every damn day.  It's just food!  I make sure it's tasty.

I still get bored, but a part of that is because I'm the one who takes on the mental load of what to cook each week.  And sometimes, all I can manage is "spaghetti with meatballs or mac and cheese or beans and rice, you pick!"

DarkandStormy

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 08:15:53 AM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 01:06:24 PM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

Oh, thanks for letting me know I don't care about protecting the environment. And here I thought keeping the thermostat at 80 in the summer/63 in the winter, only buying used clothes, buying close to zero new consumer goods, doing my best to not waste food including dumpster diving, biking to work every single day, and voting with environmental protection as a major concern was helping the cause. But I guess it's not so I should probably stop wasting my time.

And if I wasn't being a sarcastic jerk I would have said - You're doing exactly what mm1970 just described, you're letting perfect be the enemy of good. Do you make the absolute best environmental decision every time you travel, buy something, or eat something? Even if you do, would you not encourage others to make small improvements in their own lives over doing nothing?

I recognize meat makes a big difference, largely because eating is something we do so often, and admittedly I feel guilty about eating meat. But what if I ate meat 10 times a year? 5 times? I'm not technically a vegan. Although, what even defines vegan? In a sense I've been vegan for the last 2 hours. What if 2 people halve their meat consumption? Is this not the same a 1 person eliminating all meat from their diet?

Maybe you didn't realize this is what defines environmentalist:

- a person who is concerned with or advocates the protection of the environment.

So technically I could drive a hummer 60 miles to work every day and invest in bitcoin and still be an environmentalist as long as I cared. The title of that article and James Cameron are both using rhetoric to get people's attention and hopefully make people think about the environmental impacts of meat production. By definition their statements are false.

OtherJen

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 06:11:33 AM »
Slightly off-topic, @mm1970 , but the person who said that repeating meals was a horrible thing to do to your children...I’m sorry, but had they ever met small children? My niece and nephew would happily subsist on the same half-dozen foods (not meals, but individual foods) for weeks because everything else is “ucky” (quote from niece).

cats

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2018, 11:59:18 AM »
I found it interesting that the man who wrote a blog post about "killing your $1000 grocery bill" now eats in a way that would probably translate to around $1000/month if applied to a family of four. 


I also find it hard to believe that someone eating ~12 oz of animal protein per day could be considered to be on a "low meat" diet.  Forget about vegan vs. vegetarian vs. low meat eater...MMM is basically the same as the average American (well, I'm assuming that fish counts as meat in the source below, if it is not then maybe he is doing slightly better, but not much as most people eat fish <1x/week). 


https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 12:09:34 PM by cats »

LG89

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 08:58:50 AM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

Oh, thanks for letting me know I don't care about protecting the environment. And here I thought keeping the thermostat at 80 in the summer/63 in the winter, only buying used clothes, buying close to zero new consumer goods, doing my best to not waste food including dumpster diving, biking to work every single day, and voting with environmental protection as a major concern was helping the cause. But I guess it's not so I should probably stop wasting my time.

And if I wasn't being a sarcastic jerk I would have said - You're doing exactly what mm1970 just described, you're letting perfect be the enemy of good. Do you make the absolute best environmental decision every time you travel, buy something, or eat something? Even if you do, would you not encourage others to make small improvements in their own lives over doing nothing?

I recognize meat makes a big difference, largely because eating is something we do so often, and admittedly I feel guilty about eating meat. But what if I ate meat 10 times a year? 5 times? I'm not technically a vegan. Although, what even defines vegan? In a sense I've been vegan for the last 2 hours. What if 2 people halve their meat consumption? Is this not the same a 1 person eliminating all meat from their diet?

Maybe you didn't realize this is what defines environmentalist:

- a person who is concerned with or advocates the protection of the environment.

So technically I could drive a hummer 60 miles to work every day and invest in bitcoin and still be an environmentalist as long as I cared. The title of that article and James Cameron are both using rhetoric to get people's attention and hopefully make people think about the environmental impacts of meat production. By definition their statements are false.

Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

I think an environmentalist doesn't just advocate or just shows concerns, they live it. So I would add "someone who  lives or strives to live by those beliefs" to your definition.

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 08:46:26 PM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

Oh, thanks for letting me know I don't care about protecting the environment. And here I thought keeping the thermostat at 80 in the summer/63 in the winter, only buying used clothes, buying close to zero new consumer goods, doing my best to not waste food including dumpster diving, biking to work every single day, and voting with environmental protection as a major concern was helping the cause. But I guess it's not so I should probably stop wasting my time.

And if I wasn't being a sarcastic jerk I would have said - You're doing exactly what mm1970 just described, you're letting perfect be the enemy of good. Do you make the absolute best environmental decision every time you travel, buy something, or eat something? Even if you do, would you not encourage others to make small improvements in their own lives over doing nothing?

I recognize meat makes a big difference, largely because eating is something we do so often, and admittedly I feel guilty about eating meat. But what if I ate meat 10 times a year? 5 times? I'm not technically a vegan. Although, what even defines vegan? In a sense I've been vegan for the last 2 hours. What if 2 people halve their meat consumption? Is this not the same a 1 person eliminating all meat from their diet?

Maybe you didn't realize this is what defines environmentalist:

- a person who is concerned with or advocates the protection of the environment.

So technically I could drive a hummer 60 miles to work every day and invest in bitcoin and still be an environmentalist as long as I cared. The title of that article and James Cameron are both using rhetoric to get people's attention and hopefully make people think about the environmental impacts of meat production. By definition their statements are false.

Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

I think an environmentalist doesn't just advocate or just shows concerns, they live it. So I would add "someone who  lives or strives to live by those beliefs" to your definition.

First, the definition I was referring to isn't my definition, it's the actual definition, but that's just a technicality I was using to emphasize the absurdity of the quote. Personally I don't like the idea of calling someone an environmentalist if they're an advocate but also a hypocrite about it. I think a term like "jackass" might be more fitting.

Regarding meat consumption, we're again trying to have a statistical conversation without numbers. I can refute the notion that cutting out meat trumps all other forms of environmental conservation without a single piece of data because you don't specify how much meat or quantify any of the other forms of conservation. Perhaps we could compare things like an average north american meat eater to an average vegetarian and then compare that to the benefit of saving x kWh annually but blanket statements like meat eaters cannot be environmentalists is absurd no matter how you frame it.

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 09:25:06 PM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

BTW @LG89, if you are interested in learning more about the impacts of meat consumption on the environment, which would be awesome, please don't use sources like the one cited here. Their abuse of data is worse than I had imagined (hadn't actually bothered to read it until you posted).

One example, they link to another article on their own website to back up a claim that over 1/3 of the earth's landmass is used to raise animals for food. What that article actually says is that 38% of total land USED is for ALL agriculture. Which would of course include all of our food, plants and meat. So I would rate that statistic as good as made up out of thin air.

Classical_Liberal

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2018, 03:05:36 AM »
Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

Pretty sure the best thing anyone can do for the environment is not have kids.  Since I haven't (and wont), does that mean I can eat meat and still be ahead of a vegan?  How do we keep score?

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2018, 08:19:41 AM »
Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

Pretty sure the best thing anyone can do for the environment is not have kids.  Since I haven't (and wont), does that mean I can eat meat and still be ahead of a vegan?  How do we keep score?

What if everyone who cares about environmental protection doesn't have kids and the world consists only of people who were raised by those who don't care? That's probably not going to end well.

If what you're really getting at is the absurdity of trying to"keep score" I agree, sort of. I do think it's worth comparing a lb of meat not eaten vs a product not purchased new vs a gallon of gas saved but saying "you're not an environmentalist because x" is a little silly when you only know that one thing about a person.




Classical_Liberal

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2018, 11:04:30 AM »
Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

Pretty sure the best thing anyone can do for the environment is not have kids.  Since I haven't (and wont), does that mean I can eat meat and still be ahead of a vegan?  How do we keep score?

What if everyone who cares about environmental protection doesn't have kids and the world consists only of people who were raised by those who don't care? That's probably not going to end well.

If what you're really getting at is the absurdity of trying to"keep score" I agree, sort of. I do think it's worth comparing a lb of meat not eaten vs a product not purchased new vs a gallon of gas saved but saying "you're not an environmentalist because x" is a little silly when you only know that one thing about a person.

I was being facetious, sort of.   I think its a good idea to have an apples to apples comparison in how much a lifestyle activity costs (the planet).  More for informed decisions than "keeping score".  I also think humans will use any such system to keep score and one up each other. This is why we have the problem with the planet to begin with. 

The thing is, my comment about kids is correct, it's just not a hipster cool thing to point out.  So the portion of my point which was serious,  if you're going to be one of those people feeling superior based on the point system, use the REAL one.  Not the "Prius driving, hipster, feel good I'm a vegan" point system. The REAL scale is the "not popular with hipsters, major life decisions like not having kids, not living in a house, or never purchase new (particularly a Prius or E car) count more than the coffee you drink or food you eat" scale.

Edit:  By the way, we already have a pretty good scale for real resource consumption.  In capitalism  the amount of money you spend is a very accurate proxy to how many resources you consume (assuming your not being supplemented).  So maybe we should compare spending?  ...wait...   


« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 11:12:38 AM by Classical_Liberal »

dcheesi

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 10:02:10 AM »
As for repeating food, I find this is easier to do with snacks and simpler foods than with full meals. I can eat nuts and fruit (even the same fruit) every days for weeks with no problem, but even my favorite prepared dishes get old relatively quickly. I'm not sure if there's something profound in this observation, or if it's just a particular quirk of mine.

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 12:21:54 PM »
As for repeating food, I find this is easier to do with snacks and simpler foods than with full meals. I can eat nuts and fruit (even the same fruit) every days for weeks with no problem, but even my favorite prepared dishes get old relatively quickly. I'm not sure if there's something profound in this observation, or if it's just a particular quirk of mine.

Maybe because snacks tend to be consumed more passively while something else takes your attention and meals are consumed with your full attention?

I would say this is somewhat the case for me. I eat piles of raw cabbage or kale while doing something else just to get my vegetables in but if I had to eat an entire meal of blandness like this it would be pretty disappointing. Even though I'm willing to eat things I don't enjoy I still love food.

Travis

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2018, 12:46:33 PM »
As for repeating food, I find this is easier to do with snacks and simpler foods than with full meals. I can eat nuts and fruit (even the same fruit) every days for weeks with no problem, but even my favorite prepared dishes get old relatively quickly. I'm not sure if there's something profound in this observation, or if it's just a particular quirk of mine.

I have simple tastes in food so breakfast and lunch can be the exact same thing almost every single day. I'm also in a hurry for these meals so they need to be simple.  Dinner tends to be a more social event with family at the table so the food opinions of other people have to be taken into account.  If it was just me for dinner I could stick to a menu of 5 dishes as long as my nutritional needs were met.

I'm also a bad cook so that limits whatever I'm making for myself.

LG89

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2018, 12:49:12 PM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

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Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

BTW @LG89, if you are interested in learning more about the impacts of meat consumption on the environment, which would be awesome, please don't use sources like the one cited here. Their abuse of data is worse than I had imagined (hadn't actually bothered to read it until you posted).

One example, they link to another article on their own website to back up a claim that over 1/3 of the earth's landmass is used to raise animals for food. What that article actually says is that 38% of total land USED is for ALL agriculture. Which would of course include all of our food, plants and meat. So I would rate that statistic as good as made up out of thin air.

You've directed this to the wrong person. I didn't cite or post that link.


First, the definition I was referring to isn't my definition, it's the actual definition, but that's just a technicality I was using to emphasize the absurdity of the quote. Personally I don't like the idea of calling someone an environmentalist if they're an advocate but also a hypocrite about it. I think a term like "jackass" might be more fitting.

Regarding meat consumption, we're again trying to have a statistical conversation without numbers. I can refute the notion that cutting out meat trumps all other forms of environmental conservation without a single piece of data because you don't specify how much meat or quantify any of the other forms of conservation. Perhaps we could compare things like an average north american meat eater to an average vegetarian and then compare that to the benefit of saving x kWh annually but blanket statements like meat eaters cannot be environmentalists is absurd no matter how you frame it.

I wasn't aiming to have a statistical conversation. If you want to bean plate it and establish that it isn't one of best or top forms of environmental conservation, feel free. Start the class, I'm happy to listen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/meat-and-environment/  (not a statistical reference or source)

LG89

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2018, 12:53:37 PM »
Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in but I have read somewhere that cutting out meat consumption trumps all of the other environmental conservation (not that doing those things aren't in general good practice either). It's just that meat consumption is generally thought of as low impact when it's the (or one of the) biggest impact compared to the other. Especially compared to a plant based diet. I don't think anyone can deny eating no or very little meat is generally much better for the environment than now.

Pretty sure the best thing anyone can do for the environment is not have kids.  Since I haven't (and wont), does that mean I can eat meat and still be ahead of a vegan?  How do we keep score?

Well you make a really good point. With that kind of logic, doesn't that mean you're still leaving an impact? Hmm

If you want to keep score, you'll have to do it yourself (c'mon do your own work). Then you can whip it out during games of, "who has the moral high ground?"

Dabnasty

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 12:45:28 PM »
2.  He recognizes that "less meat" is good enough.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

Quote
Additionally, simply by avoiding animal products, you cut your carbon footprint in half. Keep in mind that a pound of beef requires 13 percent more fossil fuel and 15 times more water to produce than a pound of soy.

Quote
As James Cameron famously said, “There’s no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist.

So the MMM philosophy is more of a "do as I say, not as I do" type of thing?  Got it.

BTW @LG89, if you are interested in learning more about the impacts of meat consumption on the environment, which would be awesome, please don't use sources like the one cited here. Their abuse of data is worse than I had imagined (hadn't actually bothered to read it until you posted).

One example, they link to another article on their own website to back up a claim that over 1/3 of the earth's landmass is used to raise animals for food. What that article actually says is that 38% of total land USED is for ALL agriculture. Which would of course include all of our food, plants and meat. So I would rate that statistic as good as made up out of thin air.

You've directed this to the wrong person. I didn't cite or post that link.


First, the definition I was referring to isn't my definition, it's the actual definition, but that's just a technicality I was using to emphasize the absurdity of the quote. Personally I don't like the idea of calling someone an environmentalist if they're an advocate but also a hypocrite about it. I think a term like "jackass" might be more fitting.

Regarding meat consumption, we're again trying to have a statistical conversation without numbers. I can refute the notion that cutting out meat trumps all other forms of environmental conservation without a single piece of data because you don't specify how much meat or quantify any of the other forms of conservation. Perhaps we could compare things like an average north american meat eater to an average vegetarian and then compare that to the benefit of saving x kWh annually but blanket statements like meat eaters cannot be environmentalists is absurd no matter how you frame it.

I wasn't aiming to have a statistical conversation. If you want to bean plate it and establish that it isn't one of best or top forms of environmental conservation, feel free. Start the class, I'm happy to listen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/meat-and-environment/  (not a statistical reference or source)

I think I noted you because of this

Maybe someone with sources/numbers can chime in

But I can't really remember and even if it was, I didn't provide any better sources. shame on me.

Also, relevant conversation going on over here

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/ipcc-climate-report-on-1-5/

Meat discussion starts on page 2.

mm1970

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2018, 11:56:56 AM »
I found it interesting that the man who wrote a blog post about "killing your $1000 grocery bill" now eats in a way that would probably translate to around $1000/month if applied to a family of four. 


I also find it hard to believe that someone eating ~12 oz of animal protein per day could be considered to be on a "low meat" diet.  Forget about vegan vs. vegetarian vs. low meat eater...MMM is basically the same as the average American (well, I'm assuming that fish counts as meat in the source below, if it is not then maybe he is doing slightly better, but not much as most people eat fish <1x/week). 


https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters

He wrote that in 2012.

His spending that year was $5700 (approx)
I believe his most recent spending was around $7000

(As a reference, my spending in 2012 was similar to his, about $5000-5500 I think, and I'm going to come in at about $7800 this year.)

I have a family of 4 now, and it became 4 in 2012.

aalferez

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 11:41:28 AM »
Here's what I've been doing most days:
  • "Breakfast": black coffee (I'm slow to wake up, and so is my stomach, so I don't really need calories this early)
  • Mid-morning: more black coffee (sometimes decaf), with a handful of unsalted deluxe mixed nuts (Sam's Club or Aldi bulk containers)
  • Lunch: cup of yogurt, preferably no-sugar-added Greek-style
  • Afternoon: fruit (lately a lot of dried berries for convenience; they have added sugar, but I don't eat a full serving so it's not enough to worry about)
  • Dinner: free-play (this is usually my larger "real" meal for the day)

Just wanted to point out this is a very bad way to think about your calorie intake needs.
Breakfast should be by far your largest meal. It's the beginning of the day and you need all you can have to carry you through the day.
Dinner should be the smallest of all. You are going to bed, you need almost no energy for that activity. Having a lot for dinner might also upset most stomachs and might even keep you awake at night.

Just my 2 cents.

remizidae

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 04:07:00 PM »

Just wanted to point out this is a very bad way to think about your calorie intake needs.
Breakfast should be by far your largest meal. It's the beginning of the day and you need all you can have to carry you through the day.
Dinner should be the smallest of all. You are going to bed, you need almost no energy for that activity. Having a lot for dinner might also upset most stomachs and might even keep you awake at night.

Just my 2 cents.

You're pulling this out of your ass, man. If you like a big breakfast and a small dinner, great. Don't lecture others about how they "should" feel. I personally can't sleep on an empty stomach, but that's just me. I'm not going to pretend I know how everyone else's body works. Because that would be obnoxious.

cats

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Re: A Day In The Life of my Supposedly Frugal Stomach
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 06:05:41 PM »
I found it interesting that the man who wrote a blog post about "killing your $1000 grocery bill" now eats in a way that would probably translate to around $1000/month if applied to a family of four. 


I also find it hard to believe that someone eating ~12 oz of animal protein per day could be considered to be on a "low meat" diet.  Forget about vegan vs. vegetarian vs. low meat eater...MMM is basically the same as the average American (well, I'm assuming that fish counts as meat in the source below, if it is not then maybe he is doing slightly better, but not much as most people eat fish <1x/week). 


https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters

He wrote that in 2012.

His spending that year was $5700 (approx)
I believe his most recent spending was around $7000

(As a reference, my spending in 2012 was similar to his, about $5000-5500 I think, and I'm going to come in at about $7800 this year.)

I have a family of 4 now, and it became 4 in 2012.

He admits himself that neither his wife nor his son eat like he does--that his eating represents the largest per-person food expenditures in the MMM household.  So if a family were composed of 4 people eating like MMM (which would certainly be conceivable if you had two active adults and two teenagers), they would have the very $1000/month grocery bill he used to mock.

I completely agree that grocery prices likely have gone up since 2012 (I know some items I buy regularly have inched up since then), but it's also quite clear from his posts that MMM's food has trended more "luxurious" in the past 6 years as well--his increased spending does not appear to be purely a function of inflation.