The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Laura33 on September 04, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
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After this evening, I now need to nominate my dear, dear DH for the Wall of Shame. We spent the afternoon at my mom's backyard party, had lunch around 3 (fried chicken, potato salad, cole slaw, brownies, you name it). Around 5:30 tonight, he and I have the following conversation:
DH: Dumplings sound good. I'm ordering dumplings.
Me: [burst out laughing]
DH: What?
Me: We have a fridge that is so full of food that I can barely get the door shut. And you're ordering dumplings.
DH: So what do we have?
Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"] Well, we have all the leftovers from my mom's party. We have the rosemary lemon chicken DD made. And we have the leftover lettuce wraps from Friday. For starters.
DH: Dumplings sound good. I'm ordering dumplings.
And the topper: he came home with three orders of dumplings and an entire pupu platter.
Sigh.
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go. Especially if it isn't too frequent. He's making a lot of our household income right now, so if he wants to spend it on something like dumplings because that's what he wants at the time, I buy him the stupid dumplings.
Case and point: DH ordered a semi-fancy telescope from Amazon ($38) for the solar eclipse to set up some sort of projection to view the eclipse. The telescope was supposed to get in Sunday by 8 pm, but didn't actually arrive until Monday probably around 4 pm (after the eclipse had passed).
Me: Oh, I guess I should send this back.
DH: No, I'd like to keep it to use on our vacation in May 2018
Me: Really? But I really wanna send it back and get our money back, because we didn't get to use it for what we ordered it for.
DH: *opens box*
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go. Especially if it isn't too frequent.
Yeah, it's all the time. This was after he took the kids out to Subway for lunch Saturday, after he ordered takeout for him and the kids Saturday night, and after we went to the Renaissance Festival Sunday and (happily) dropped probably $60 on delicious treats. Oh: and he eats lunch out every day at work.
Just frustrated. I'm putting in a lot of work trying to get the grocery bills down, while still coming up with menus that contain the kind of variety he likes. Just the teensiest bit of cooperation would be freaking awesome.
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go.
This to a point, but frequency has to be taken in to account. Going out for Thai food twice a week at $25/night is worse for your bottom line than going somewhere fancy for $75/night once a month.
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Do you end up wasting a lot of food as a result of this impulsive takeout? If so, I might approach the issue from an environmental and moral perspective instead of a financial one (and sometime when it's not a pressing issue). Just in case you've become a broken record on the subject of money. ;) when I have a mad craving for a specific food while we have a full fridge, this thinking is usually what stops me.
Another thing to consider is that this *is* his compromise from going out 12x, or 15x, or 19x weekly. Then if you want to push him to change further you have to understand what's driving him to get food out when the fridge is full. I think it tends to get framed on here (MMM forums) as just about an expensive way to get food, but frankly it's not. Going out can be entertainment (like a museum for your mouth!), it can be labor outsourcing (meal planning or cooking or dishes), an excuse to leave the house, etc etc. So, if you try to fight "I want an excuse to go somewhere" or "I don't want to do dishes tonight" with "we have food" that's just not very effective....
As far as throttling goes, I try to remember there are lots of reasons I like BF and of he's a little spendy on (relatively) little things, at least he has his head on straight re: big things (cars, savings, emotionally supporting me) and is overall an net positive :)
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PS the most shocking part of your post was how fast he went from BBQ to dumplings! My stomach hurt to think of it!
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PS the most shocking part of your post was how fast he went from BBQ to dumplings! My stomach hurt to think of it!
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Tell me about it! I originally felt guilty (OMG I blew off making the dinner I had planned, and I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers, it's all my fault). But the reason I blew it off is because I was still stuffed, and so it never occurred to me that he would be hungry enough for a "real" dinner!
And yes, you nailed the "food as entertainment" bit. I have generally given up on trying to avoid eating out on the weekend and so have focused my efforts more on providing good weeknight meals, so at least the takeout/restaurants are limited. This was just the perfect storm of last week's leftovers still in fridge + new grocery shop + inheriting a bunch of picnic stuff I didn't anticipate + tons of going out all weekend. I've tried the food waste approach before, to no avail, and he doesn't care about environmental stuff. Maybe I will attack it from the efficiency point -- he is an engineer, and he prides himself on efficiency uber alles, so that might be his weak spot. :-)
And, yeah, he really is a great guy, and we can "afford" it, and so I know it's small potatoes. I think it just bugged me because it completely undercut my own personal quest to improve our food habits.
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
This I will never understand either. Leftovers are the best. It's zero marginal effort, just reheat and eat. I always make more than what I want so I can have leftovers later or the next day. Certain things are "bad" leftover but you can usually compensate for that (salad with dressing all over it = bad, salad with separate dressing = good) or even better, just grow up and eat it: it's food.
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Anyone who wastes perfectly good leftover fried chicken deserves a throttling in my mind (assuming that they eat chicken). That said I can definitely see why sometimes someone might want to eat out even if they have food at home.
I'm currently seeing someone that likes to buy/collect DVD's and board games and other things. She's frugal outside of that but it is still weird to see games that she's owned for a year and hasn't played (and she intends to, she's not keeping it there to collect). Then I realize that it isn't my place to judge and from what I can tell her expenses are FAR less than most other women I've gone on dates with.
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What is his overall health like? Personally, if I ate out at the rate you are describing, I'd be gaining a LOT of weight and not feeling so good. For me, eating my own cooking (including leftovers) is as much about health as budget. Is this an angle you could exploit with him at all?
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Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"]
Previously, my DH would have starved (or ordered in) when surrounded by a house full of food. Unless I presented the food before him, it would languish in the fridge. From my experience, "open the damn door and look" doesn't work.
Over the past year DH has made remarkable strides in this area. For example yesterday I was baking when he strolled into the kitchen and inquired what was for lunch. After I recited the list of available leftovers he was able to find them in the fridge AND heat them up. All by himself! *applause*
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Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"]
Previously, my DH would have starved (or ordered in) when surrounded by a house full of food. Unless I presented the food before him, it would languish in the fridge. From my experience, "open the damn door and look" doesn't work.
Over the past year DH has made remarkable strides in this area. For example yesterday I was baking when he strolled into the kitchen and inquired what was for lunch. After I recited the list of available leftovers he was able to find them in the fridge AND heat them up. All by himself! *applause*
These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
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OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
I used to hate leftovers when I was a kid and could choose not to eat them. Now I'm an adult and purchase and cook my own food, leftovers are a lot more awesome.
I think its might be from a health safety perspective- food that is left out could mold and stuff, so old food can be seen as no longer as great. In the same thought, its easy to forget that eggs in a supermarket can already be a month old (or older), but you can think "well, I bought these eggs three weeks ago, they probably aren't good anymore."
I don't know why, but I'm nervous about food that constantly goes through heat-cool cycles (seems like poor food handling to me), so I have a one-reheat-only rule. If its a leftover item that gets microwaved, it doesn't get put back in the fridge. Waste on this is usually mitigated by only serving what would be eaten.
But yeah, leftover haters generally don't realize what they could have with just a change of perspective.
Back on topic- I'm sorry your husband is frequently doing this. Does his cravings have any sort of patterns? Or is it all random?
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These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
Boston Market, Subway, the little Mexican place on the corner, etc. He was a single guy making @$70K/yr at what he thought was a cool job living in a $600/mo. apartment in a LCOL area. He just didn't care.
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If it makes you feel any better, we let three pre-cooked (by us) chicken breasts go to waste because of poor planning (weekend at FIL's) and an inability to move them to the freezer. On the upshot, FIL sent us home with a bunch of leftovers from the cookout, which I think we're going to eat tonight.
But still, we wasted close to $10 in chicken.
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What is his overall health like? Personally, if I ate out at the rate you are describing, I'd be gaining a LOT of weight and not feeling so good. For me, eating my own cooking (including leftovers) is as much about health as budget. Is this an angle you could exploit with him at all?
I wish. We have both gained weight -- a whole 'nother thread; first time I served spaghetti, he said "where's the meat?" -- and are trying to eat better and exercise more. But that is part of the problem in itself: my version of eating healthier is chicken and vegetables; he, OTOH, thinks chicken is a perfectly nice vegetable, and that he should just skip the carbs but eat as much sausage and red meat as he likes. So I'm sure part of last night's resistance was that his options were all chicken.
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
Misplaced disgust response, I think. Some people see food in the fridge and just think of bacteria spreading like wildfire. My Wife looks at it the same way she looks at cleaning dishes, an extremely disgusting thing.
I try to be sympathetic, but I'm the one who does 90% of the cooking in my house, so I get a bit frustrated. Plus, like you said, certain foods get better as they sit! I love my cassoulet 2 or 3 days old...
But still, we wasted close to $10 in chicken.
$10 in ground beef wasted a few weeks ago. Thawed it because we were supposed to make burgers. Never happened. The food waste hurts, especially when it is delicious, delicious animal protein :(
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I'm sorry your husband is frequently doing this. Does his cravings have any sort of patterns? Or is it all random?
Yes. The pattern is "I want different flavors and cuisines every day." He loves every version of ethnic food we've tried and just loves variety. I have gotten very, very good at a number of them, but I can't do all of them - and even the ones I do well usually require advance planning (in fact, I have an awesome potsticker recipe, but it takes half a day to make). This was completely typical: Sunday, I specifically asked if he had anything in particular he was hungry for this week, and he said no; then the next day, it's all about dumplings, which I could easily have made before the barbecue had he mentioned it before I went to the store!
It's just a losing battle, because he flat-out does not care about blowing money on food if it gets him what he wants, when he wants it. I need to focus on all the ways he is great, because trying to cut our food bill is driving me batshit and getting me nowhere.
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This might be unmustachian of me, but if food really is that important to your husband then maybe just include that in the FIRE budget? Maybe with a caveat that he has to work out 30 minutes a day or whatever. You said he was making 70k before you met him living in a $600 month apartment? Does he have a porcshe in the front? Maybe food can be his one luxury.
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Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"]
Previously, my DH would have starved (or ordered in) when surrounded by a house full of food. Unless I presented the food before him, it would languish in the fridge. From my experience, "open the damn door and look" doesn't work.
Over the past year DH has made remarkable strides in this area. For example yesterday I was baking when he strolled into the kitchen and inquired what was for lunch. After I recited the list of available leftovers he was able to find them in the fridge AND heat them up. All by himself! *applause*
These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
In fairness, navigating a fridge when *you* are the one stocking it, meal planning, and cooking, is very different than when you aren't. My husband often asks me "what can I eat?" and I'm sure in part it's because I do most of the shopping, meal planning, and cooking, and if he decides to just snack on whatever he wants, he might wind up eating something that was supposed to be a critical part of tomorrow's dinner, and then I get grumpy because I have to revise our meal plan. He's a perfectly good cook and was a perfectly functional adult before we met or moved in together, it's just that the fridge has now become more "my" domain. Admittedly, we try to minimize food waste and thus the majority of the food in our fridge at any given time IS earmarked for something, doesn't sound like that was necessarily the case for the OP...
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Laura33, you always give such wise and down-to-earth advice that I'm not sure any of us can give you any ideas you haven't already considered or tried :) But since I have thoughts on the subject and they don't seem totally dickish, I'll share them (and maybe the outside perspective is helpful, I dunno).
Obviously frugality is an issue at stake here, but more fundamentally you have a difference in values with respect to food. You prioritize eating what's available; he prioritizes eating what he wants. You have different ideas of "healthy". You take food waste as a more serious threat to both your finances and your world. And as two adults...you can do whatever, who cares. But you have kids and every day you're modeling for them what's a sensible approach to food, what's deprivation, what's a splurge. His example is setting your kids up to go off to college and ignore their mandated meal plan in lieu of getting pizza or Chinese or burgers every night because they feel like it. I think if you are to move forward you really need to reconcile this: the values standpoint, the question of "what's our default behavior and what are good reasons to deviate from it?"
I've basically brought bf around to the consensus that our default is cooking (it helps his family growing up functioned this way, too); if we're tired or lazy and cooking Will Not Happen, cooking convenience food (frozen pizza, frozen dumplings, pasta) is ok; and only as a last resort going out for convenience/outsourcing. But on the flip side I put up little resistance to going out for socializing or entertainment occasionally, especially since he works from home (we do still have people over, and do other non-going-out-to-eat things as well), we eat out when we're "on the road" (tbh, I've never been driven to change this), and I try not to overstock the fridge so we aren't stuck eating leftovers that are about to turn or using up old produce *all* the time. I also concede to eating pork sometimes, which he likes more than I (though never 2 weeks in a row...).
If I was in your shoes, I would approach the conversation by first emphatically explaining that this is *important* to me, with or without supporting reasons (they can strengthen your position but also sidetrack you into a debate), and that I need help in accomplishing this; then I'd reassure that I understand that his preferred behavior/approach brings him a lot of enjoyment and by no means do I want to cut him off from that...but could we maybe come up with some guidelines for what we consider a reasonable amount of pleasant behavior to engage in (frequency, budget, exceptions, whatever). And then I'd also ask, what can we do to make the less pleasant behavior more palatable (e.g. focus less on your definition of "healthy" and do more red meat; or plan a sequence of meals with the same protein but different cuisines: we did poached chicken in tacos, on pizza, in fried rice, and would have done bbq sandwiches if the bread hadn't molded :( . Shrimp can be in a lemon-butter pasta, or in Thai fresh rolls, or in stir fry, or in tacos, etc..."modular" meal-planning, of sorts?) It probably won't go smoothly, it might actually be several conversations, the execution will probably go off-track at some point...but that's how I'd look to deal with it.
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
I eat leftovers and I know where you're coming from, but your argument isn't really valid. Yes, the food travels and sits for days, but not after it's cooked. Some food is just as good (or even better) the next day, but there are some things that really do suck as leftovers.
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These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
DH was a poor student, and a fully functional adult when he met. At this time he was even able to prepare whole meals from scratch by himself.
His complete regression into food preparation incompetency was brought on by: graduating and having a disposal income, a stressful job with long hours, a overly competent wife who mistakenly picked up all the slack, and a healthy dose of laziness and not giving a fuck.
At his worst, he probably "could" have found the food the fridge, if he "would" have been willing to look in the fridge. I am certain he didn't bother looking because of the energy expenditure required to haul his ass off the couch...then you have to find the contain, and horror what if the components you require are in more than one container, and what if you need a plate, then you have to go to the cupboard, and then back to the microwave, and microwaving takes at least two minutes, and then your plate after....if you don't put it in the dishwasher your wife will just nag you. Is that really worth all the effort? The struggle is real! It is obviously easy to: (1) eat nothing, (2) ask wife, (3) order in.
He is on the slow road to recovery. I am proud to report he has even been packing his lunch 3-4 times a week for the last six months.
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I'm counting my blessings. My DH "doesn't do food" - neither of his parents did either. When he was a SAHP, the kids learned to forage in the kitchen and cook for themselves, and they're all good cooks as adults (fortunately, I was good at grocery shopping and ensuring there were always plenty of ingredients to hand). But he wouldn't dream of taking himself off out for a meal, or sending for a takeaway. He's more likely to dine in front of a screen on a pack of potato chips or a bowl of breakfast cereal. I talked to him about the latter once. "Breakfast is supposed to be the most important meal of the day, so if I have three breakfasts I'm getting three times the benefit," he said. (Sigh.)
I've told him that when I retire I'm going to put proper meals on the table three times a day. I'm not sure he sees that as a positive thing.
He used to say to me, "I only eat snack foods because you buy them. If you didn't buy them, I wouldn't eat them." Then his XW told me that he'd always been the same.
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
This I will never understand either. Leftovers are the best. It's zero marginal effort, just reheat and eat. I always make more than what I want so I can have leftovers later or the next day. Certain things are "bad" leftover but you can usually compensate for that (salad with dressing all over it = bad, salad with separate dressing = good) or even better, just grow up and eat it: it's food.
Yes, yes, yes to both of these posts. Leftovers are the best!
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you could just throttle him :D
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I left him with leftovers, and I know he doesn't like leftovers
OT, but people like this are baffling to me. Like...you realize MOST of your food travels for days, if not weeks, on trucks, right? Or that "pre-packaged meals" sit on shelves for days/weeks?
Like...what is this aversion to leftovers? Saves time, tastes the same (or sometimes better - flavors marinate more)...what's the problem here?
I'll never understand leftover haters. I've heard of people who will just toss their dinner out because they don't want to refrigerate it. Just an all out refusal to eat anything that wasn't cooked in the last 30 minutes. Idiots.
This I will never understand either. Leftovers are the best. It's zero marginal effort, just reheat and eat. I always make more than what I want so I can have leftovers later or the next day. Certain things are "bad" leftover but you can usually compensate for that (salad with dressing all over it = bad, salad with separate dressing = good) or even better, just grow up and eat it: it's food.
Yes, yes, yes to both of these posts. Leftovers are the best!
Leftovers are like dividends. Cook once, eat many times with little to no additional effort.
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you could just throttle him :D
:-)
Thanks for all the responses; I was mostly just venting. Galliver: good thoughts. We have always had a fundamental disconnect over money, which we have navigated basically by making enough that he could buy enough toys and I could save enough to feel safe. But now that I am focusing more on FIRE and trying to walk back a bit from some of our unnecessary excesses, that difference is becoming more prominent, and it is coming out in different -- and sometimes unexpected -- ways. The reality is that I am not asking him to deprive himself -- but maybe have prosciutto and taleggio once a month, instead of every week, and limit eating out/takeout to weekends. Obviously, these things are relatively small change compared to houses and cars, but you are right, it completely hits the difference in the core values, which is why it set me off (when you grow up on food stamps, wasting food is a cardinal sin).
And then the other flashpoint is that I am totally seeing it in my kids (both of whom asked last night if we could go out to dinner). So I think that will be the plan of attack -- "our kids are not going to start off making the same salaries as married 50-yr-old professionals, and we are not preparing them for the real world if we raise them to think that you eat out/get takeout all the time." Well, that and the efficiency bit (it does crack me up that he prides himself on being Mr. Efficiency in All Things -- but I guess that extends only to the things he cares about).
[And btw, my meal-planning process is largely as you describe it -- I don't actually force him to eat chicken all the time, Monday it was just what happened to be left (probably because he doesn't like it as much). :-) E.g., last night was bangers, and tomorrow is bulgogi sliders.]
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Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"]
Previously, my DH would have starved (or ordered in) when surrounded by a house full of food. Unless I presented the food before him, it would languish in the fridge. From my experience, "open the damn door and look" doesn't work.
Over the past year DH has made remarkable strides in this area. For example yesterday I was baking when he strolled into the kitchen and inquired what was for lunch. After I recited the list of available leftovers he was able to find them in the fridge AND heat them up. All by himself! *applause*
These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
When people marry, one of the spouses has certain systems, ways of organizing the house, that mean things are where SHE looks (and not where the seemingly clueless husband looks).
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Just throttle your significant other when they act like a financially irresponsible nutcase. You will certainly feel better and your message will be received loud and clear! :P
In all seriousness, emotional based purchases are deadly to people seeking financial independence. If the two of you already spoke about your shared FIRE goals why is one person behaving so irrationally? Getting both people on the same page will greatly increase the likelihood of reaching FIRE together.
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He's more likely to dine in front of a screen on a pack of potato chips or a bowl of breakfast cereal. I talked to him about the latter once. "Breakfast is supposed to be the most important meal of the day, so if I have three breakfasts I'm getting three times the benefit," he said. (Sigh.)
I've told him that when I retire I'm going to put proper meals on the table three times a day. I'm not sure he sees that as a positive thing.
Do we share a significant other? I thought I had the only SO in existence who would actively prefer that I stopped cooking, so he could go back to Cinnamon Toast Crunch, frozen pizza, and frozen burritos. Maybe with the occasional chicken nugget as a vegetable, mac and cheese if he's really feeling healthy.
At least we rarely eat out and never get takeout. If he behaved like Laura33's husband I don't know if I could restrain the urge to throttle :)
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Me: [restraining desire to say "open the damn door and look"]
Previously, my DH would have starved (or ordered in) when surrounded by a house full of food. Unless I presented the food before him, it would languish in the fridge. From my experience, "open the damn door and look" doesn't work.
Over the past year DH has made remarkable strides in this area. For example yesterday I was baking when he strolled into the kitchen and inquired what was for lunch. After I recited the list of available leftovers he was able to find them in the fridge AND heat them up. All by himself! *applause*
These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
When people marry, one of the spouses has certain systems, ways of organizing the house, that mean things are where SHE looks (and not where the seemingly clueless husband looks).
SO and I moved in together and we spent 5-10 minutes talking about where certain items would go. Often, she will go the grocery store and put food away. It might take me a whole 20 seconds longer than if I bought the food and saw where I put it, but I can usually find anything in the refrigerator/pantry. Even if we hadn't discussed it initially, it isn't hard to look through a few drawers/shelves.
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go. Especially if it isn't too frequent. He's making a lot of our household income right now, so if he wants to spend it on something like dumplings because that's what he wants at the time, I buy him the stupid dumplings.
Oh, penguin... your post made me so mad! Why on earth should he buy dumplings because he earns more?! I will admit to scenes like Laura33's in our home, regularly, but even when the income was 100% me and 0% him, the emotions about letting the DH have the damn dumplings (Sushi here) are the same -- just let him buy more toys / junk / entertainment etc because he earns more money?! Because he wants them and you love him and don't want to be THAT spouse?! Don't you realize that argument never works in reverse, and it is not just a gender thing?
Budgets are budgets for a reason.
Ahh.. my answer to my DH in that scenario is : "Well, that is what we have our personal monthly allowances for, enjoy!"... and then I would have dumpling out of the pack when he brings it home, because we do share :-)
ETA: Laura33 -- I'll match you on a husband that doesn't like leftovers, and raise you a husband who also dislikes for crockpot cooked foods, dinners based on beans (without meat), and meals that contain more than 1/4 cup of starches, etc.
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We don't eat leftovers.
When we cook, we almost always make enough for three or four meals. Those bins of food in the refrigerator are not leftovers, those are planned meals.
I chuckle at the rationalizations about bacteria. Please. Seven days for chicken for decades, never a stomach ache. Four days in the refrigerator and weeks in the freezer for pork chops, no problems. Everyday for the last year or so I have eaten either a chicken breast or a bowl of chicken soup that I remove from refrigeration at 5:30am and eat at noon right from my backpack (ok, I heat the soup in microwave.)
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Laura33 -- I'll match you on a husband that doesn't like leftovers, and raise you a husband who also dislikes for crockpot cooked foods, dinners based on beans (without meat), and meals that contain more than 1/4 cup of starches, etc.
I call. Apparently we can add bigamy to the list, because we appear to have married the same guy.
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I think a lot of people don't like the texture of leftovers, especially if heated up in the microwave. We got a toaster oven and the leftovers have a much better texture (crispy!) and get eaten far more often. Plus the toaster oven is great for other stuff like making a quick grilled cheese sandwich, or melting cheese over nachos, etc....
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I can't understand an aversion to leftovers. I will happily eat breakfast tacos every night for a week. Oh, there's still delicious lasagna in the fridge? I guess we'll have to eat it! *licks lips*
I'm sorry your husband is frequently doing this. Does his cravings have any sort of patterns? Or is it all random?
Yes. The pattern is "I want different flavors and cuisines every day." He loves every version of ethnic food we've tried and just loves variety. I have gotten very, very good at a number of them, but I can't do all of them - and even the ones I do well usually require advance planning (in fact, I have an awesome potsticker recipe, but it takes half a day to make).
*snip*
Not that it helps dumpling-order night, but uncooked potstickers freeze exceptionally well. I have a great recipe for vegetarian gyoza that makes 20-ish gyoza. Well, they are such a pain in the neck to make that I will set aside 5+hours (if making the wrappers from scratch as well) and churn out 100+ of the little monsters to be frozen. That makes them a much less painful side/snack/meal if one of us gets a craving. With you two having kids, you would probably want to do at least 50-100 per person, and maybe get the kids to help fill and fold? (Of course, I have plenty of chest freezer space, which you may not.)
[And btw, my meal-planning process is largely as you describe it -- I don't actually force him to eat chicken all the time, Monday it was just what happened to be left (probably because he doesn't like it as much). :-) E.g., last night was bangers, and tomorrow is bulgogi sliders.]
I want to come to your house for dinner!
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[And btw, my meal-planning process is largely as you describe it -- I don't actually force him to eat chicken all the time, Monday it was just what happened to be left (probably because he doesn't like it as much). :-) E.g., last night was bangers, and tomorrow is bulgogi sliders.]
I want to come to your house for dinner!
Ditto about dinner! Also about dumplings; my mom would do the same (giant batch on a weekend). I've done it once, so I know I can, but I usually buy them so I have time to keep the house out of biohazard status and also work on my dissertation. And read MMM forums ;) Priorities and all.
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"Breakfast is supposed to be the most important meal of the day, so if I have three breakfasts I'm getting three times the benefit," he said.
Lol, I'm going to reuse that one with my wife next time she catches me eating some cereal or bread+butter in front of the computer :)
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We don't eat leftovers.
When we cook, we almost always make enough for three or four meals. Those bins of food in the refrigerator are not leftovers, those are planned meals.
I chuckle at the rationalizations about bacteria. Please. Seven days for chicken for decades, never a stomach ache. Four days in the refrigerator and weeks in the freezer for pork chops, no problems. Everyday for the last year or so I have eaten either a chicken breast or a bowl of chicken soup that I remove from refrigeration at 5:30am and eat at noon right from my backpack (ok, I heat the soup in microwave.)
Same here. I used to cook 2 meals a day, it's amazing how much time you save by cooking 3-6 meals at a time. The only "problematic" food is rice and even that lasts a few days.
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Leftovers Planned-overs. Good planning, use of resources (including time). OK, some things don't reheat well, they should be cooked in one meal quantities (having trouble thinking of examples). Everything else, yay, no cooking!
And I am noticing a trend here - it is the non-cook of the couple who is doing all this random food consumption - it isn't their planning and work that is going unused. Maybe they should be the cooks for a month or three (including shopping for the food)? So they can start to appreciate the work that goes into menu planning and execution?
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Leftovers Planned-overs. Good planning, use of resources (including time). OK, some things don't reheat well, they should be cooked in one meal quantities (having trouble thinking of examples). Everything else, yay, no cooking!
And I am noticing a trend here - it is the non-cook of the couple who is doing all this random food consumption - it isn't their planning and work that is going unused. Maybe they should be the cooks for a month or three (including shopping for the food)? So they can start to appreciate the work that goes into menu planning and execution?
I freaking wish. Even though I give him a lot of shit, my SO does appreciate all the work I put into presenting him with healthy, tasty foods every single night* but he works until 9pm or later every night from August-May. When he's around during the day he'll put stuff in the crockpot; on the rare occasion he beats me home he knows to look at the meal prep board and chop veggies/throw stuff on a roasting pan; he'll help with batch cooking on the weekends; and he doesn't mind doing grocery runs if I give him a list. It's just logistically impossible for him to be more than an occasional contributor. I also care a lot more than he does about cooking from scratch, and would be cooking for myself regardless of whether or not we were together.
It would be a deal-breaker if he didn't eat leftovers planned-overs, though. I avoid a few things that he really hates (cooked greens unless they're in a soup or pasta sauce, "weird" vegetables like bok choy/seaweed/etc.) but other than that he eats what I put in front of him. I'm his partner, not his mommy or his personal chef--so mad empathy props to all the folks** on here learning new styles of cuisine to satisfy picky spouses. I think maybe the difference is that my SO would prefer to eat frozen burritos and Skittles all day, but he understands that 1) my way is better for his health (see the 15 lbs he lost with no effort since we moved in together), and 2) I do the work so I make the rules. It would definitely be trickier if he were prone to takeout, but fortunately we have avoided that pitfall.
*Just kidding, his favorite night is Frozen Pizza Friday.
**I'm betting we're women based on patterns of gender-normative household task allocation, but I want to be inclusive.
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And I am noticing a trend here - it is the non-cook of the couple who is doing all this random food consumption - it isn't their planning and work that is going unused. Maybe they should be the cooks for a month or three (including shopping for the food)? So they can start to appreciate the work that goes into menu planning and execution?
I think this is a good point. I think we are experiencing the "20+ years of marriage" creep; he didn't used to be quite this picky, and I didn't really notice anything changing because it happened so slowly. So perhaps a refresher would help remind us how much the other does.
Of course the flip side of that is that he doesn't care so much about nutrition or budget, so we'd probably eat a lot of hot dogs and do even more takeout. :-)
And then to defend him a bit: a lot of my issues are self-imposed -- some of it based on values, others based on just wanting everyone to be happy. He never complains about what I serve and just eats it -- and he also does cleanup, because that's how we allocated chores (and I'd still rather do the cooking than the cleanup). So I'm trying to be both considerate and pragmatic, i.e., if I want us to eat at home more, then I need to make eating at home as nice/interesting as eating out or doing takeout.
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I'll match you on a husband that doesn't like leftovers, and raise you a husband who also dislikes for crockpot cooked foods, dinners based on beans (without meat), and meals that contain more than 1/4 cup of starches, etc.
How you ladies deal with these men....sheesh. Good on you.
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I have to admit, I've broken up with a guy over food. I was seeing him early in college and we went back to his hometown so I could meet his parents. I knew he didn't like vegetables but...he sat there with a serving of the casserole his mother made and picked out every. single. veggie. (It was really more of a maturity issue.)
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I have to admit, I've broken up with a guy over food. I was seeing him early in college and we went back to his hometown so I could meet his parents. I knew he didn't like vegetables but...he sat there with a serving of the casserole his mother made and picked out every. single. veggie. (It was really more of a maturity issue.)
My stepdad does this. He is 70. Never eats any fruit either. I have no idea how he can poop.
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I have to admit, I've broken up with a guy over food. I was seeing him early in college and we went back to his hometown so I could meet his parents. I knew he didn't like vegetables but...he sat there with a serving of the casserole his mother made and picked out every. single. veggie. (It was really more of a maturity issue.)
This thread is making me smile a lot, so much is familiar.
My youngest daughter, who is omnivorous, had a relationship with a guy whose food repertoire was fries, chicken nuggets, and candy. No recognisable meat, no recognisable vegetables, no soups or semisolids, nothing that required chewing. Amazingly, they lasted 18 months.
We've never had any problems with leftovers because no matter what I bought or cooked, someone would eat it. Leave half a portion of pasta and pesto in a pan at dinnertime, it'll be gone by morning. Food waste? Not under my roof. It'll be harder to judge what to buy and cook when all the young'uns have moved out and it's only DH and me, though it'll also be easier to stick to a food budget and a menu plan. Especially if DH is happy to eat two meals of breakfast cereal and one meal of a family pack of potato chips every day.
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Just another thought...it seems you probably are doing meal planning, but are you making the plans visible to your husband? We have a whiteboard next to the front door of our apartment that is used for scheduling chores and stuff. I am *trying* to get in the habit of writing the meal plan for each week up there also. I find on weeks when I remember to do that, my husband is more likely to do things to help with getting dinner on the table, because he knows what the plan is. And it's nice (I think) to know that a particularly good meal is coming up at some point during the week, especially if tonight's meal is more ho-hum. In the case of your husband and kids, perhaps it would be worth setting up a similar board, but with some "flair" to make it more exciting. Like different colored markers for each day, or writing out a fancier name for each meal (e.g. instead of "spaghetti", write "linguine noodles with marinara sauce, green salad with balsamic vinaigrette"). A lot of "fancy" food that you get at restaurants is really pretty basic stuff, with exotic names and packaging (as my husband pointed out once, "pizza margherita" can be viewed as just a snooty artisan way of saying "cheese on toast").
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I'll match you on a husband that doesn't like leftovers, and raise you a husband who also dislikes for crockpot cooked foods, dinners based on beans (without meat), and meals that contain more than 1/4 cup of starches, etc.
How you ladies deal with these men....sheesh. Good on you.
I think sometimes statements like "SO doesn't like/eat ___" come across as an ultimatum that was made, but I think it's really based on wanting to please someone you love, within reason. I minimize my use of green beans, olives, mushrooms, pickles, sweet potato, gourds, and fresh tomatoes (vs sauce), except as sides that are easily substituted. On the flip side, he doesn't feed me pot roast and baked beans every chance he gets--I'm more the "no crockpot, no beans*" one in the relationship, and typically unenthused about soup, pork chops, cauliflower. But there are so many foods for which our tastes overlap that there doesn't seem good reason to make each other suffer (often)...
*...and for all that I would eat starches 24/7 if I could, my love for them conflicts with a love of having some semblance of waistline so I won't eat grains-heavy meals super-frequently (easy and cheap though they may be)...
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Leftovers Planned-overs. Good planning, use of resources (including time). OK, some things don't reheat well, they should be cooked in one meal quantities (having trouble thinking of examples). Everything else, yay, no cooking!
And I am noticing a trend here - it is the non-cook of the couple who is doing all this random food consumption - it isn't their planning and work that is going unused. Maybe they should be the cooks for a month or three (including shopping for the food)? So they can start to appreciate the work that goes into menu planning and execution?
ooh.. the painful memories. DH was a SAHP... Memories of hovering between bad food, lots of heat and eat meals, take out, and no food on the table until I broke down and started to cook something at 7:30pm at night. Like 15 minutes before the kids bedtime... Sometimes when you give this task over to the other person,the answer is that the family just doesn't eat, or eats very odd tasting spaghetti sauce a lot. (jerk spice or mashed banana, or cocoa powder in the sauce...!) .. with nachos for dinner every now and then when it wasn't steak, steak, steak.
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This scenario sounds so much like what has been happening in my home. I don't know how to break the aversion to leftovers, and I'm sick of having to eat meat at every meal. I cook 99% of our food, but almost never cook the food I'd actually like to eat bc his highness can't be doing vegetarian 😠. I'm feeling extra cranky right now bc he went off sugar (including alcohol! And no eating out!) for a week last month and finally stopped snoring!!! But now he is back to what he was doing before and I have to deal with the consequences. Oh, and he gave me a lecture about how I ought to get more rest bc I'm looking tired.
But back to the OP - if hubby is in to efficiency, maybe explain that chronic lifestyle-induced conditions such as insulin resistant diabetes, kidney failure, fatty liver disease, and long-term excess weight would be exceedingly inefficient for him. And... how can he be sure that those restaurants aren't re-heating some of yesterday's ingredients?
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This scenario sounds so much like what has been happening in my home. I don't know how to break the aversion to leftovers, and I'm sick of having to eat meat at every meal. I cook 99% of our food, but almost never cook the food I'd actually like to eat bc his highness can't be doing vegetarian 😠. I'm feeling extra cranky right now bc he went off sugar (including alcohol! And no eating out!) for a week last month and finally stopped snoring!!! But now he is back to what he was doing before and I have to deal with the consequences. Oh, and he gave me a lecture about how I ought to get more rest bc I'm looking tired.
So you found someone unwilling to compromise this aspect of his left?
Meat is probably the most expensive food per calorie / per pound. Eating processed meat is also a group 1 carcinogen according to the World Health Organization.
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This is a touchy topic! my DH is on a super strict diet to improve his health - no sugar, little fruits, little salt, cook-from-scratch, avoid meat, dairy, and white starches. And he doesn't care much for beans/nuts. It's been insanely difficult cooking for him. On the flip side, he LOVES eating out and started eating out frequently. It drives me bananas because obviously, all those darn restaurants are using plenty of the ingredients on his "forbidden" list. Plus he kept asking for us to go out to eat together and many times, I just honestly wanted to stay home and cook. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!
I did finally give up making a fuss about it and just grumbled occasionally. Amazingly enough, he cut back after that and has been trying harder to eat at home. It's hard because although he is a decent cook, he gets irritated having to cook lunch for himself every day. I've been swamped with other stuff so have had no mental energy to prep lunch for him. Oh well - we eat pretty much every dinner at home. Have to pick my battles.
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These guys (you, OP, and anyone else reading) were functioning adults before you met them? And couldn't find food in a refrigerator? How??
When I met my husband he was 29 years old, living in an efficiency apartment that had no paper products except toilet paper. The first time I opened the fridge it only contained a jar of mayo and a case of Coke. There was also something small in the apartment - like 1 bag of chips. He ate out for every. single. meal. There was a plate in the sink that was growing mold that made a little "mold bridge" and connected it to the sink bottom. Keep in mind this is after he made the place presentable for a woman he was trying to impress. It is a stereotype, but my husband really was what I call a feral bachelor.
Almost 20 years later, eating meals on a regular schedule was a huge accomplishment. Eating left overs even more so. I am still working on him "seeing things" in the fridge. So many times he has said he wanted to eat leftover X,Y,Z (which I actually believe) - but he didn't "see it." He still cannot cook anything that involves things like defrosting meat in advance, planning, etc.
He operates on the theory of "Hmm, I am hungry - what do I want?" Where as I think "Hmm, I'm hungry - what needs to be used up?"
Some people, often people who also can't really cook - really do not get the idea of whole house food management and are stuck in the idea of I am eating this 1 meal.
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go. Especially if it isn't too frequent.
Yeah, it's all the time. This was after he took the kids out to Subway for lunch Saturday, after he ordered takeout for him and the kids Saturday night, and after we went to the Renaissance Festival Sunday and (happily) dropped probably $60 on delicious treats. Oh: and he eats lunch out every day at work.
Just frustrated. I'm putting in a lot of work trying to get the grocery bills down, while still coming up with menus that contain the kind of variety he likes. Just the teensiest bit of cooperation would be freaking awesome.
As a man who has in the past had difficulty navigating the refrigerator, I have some thoughts on this. Speaking only for myself, there was nothing noble or reasonable behind my reluctance to make my own way. It was just laziness. I allowed myself to be lazy about stuff like cooking and cleaning, and about trying new foods, and my wife allowed that for reasons that are her own. One of the many ways she is too good for me.
I don't really know what changed, but I have gotten a lot better about this stuff. I do 95% of the cooking now, so that's surely part of it. I've tried to make that my apology to her for the years I was more difficult.
On the leftover front, I normally eat them, but sometimes it's a meal I made that didn't thrill me. In cases like these, sometimes the simple fact is that I'd rather pop out to Chipotle or Subway than eat the leftovers, even if there is a delta cost there. I indulge myself from time to time on this since we are already FI.
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There's stuff about my DH that drives me bonkers in my own marriage, too (just not this particular thing). I'm vaguely aware that there are things about me that drive him crazy, too. We've only been married 4 years, not 20.
I remember reading somewhere that all marriages actually contain "irreconcilable differences" and the successful ones have partners who are willing to just let the annoying stuff go. That's controversial advice, since some things are not a good idea to just "let go", but when both parties are acting in good faith and are equally committed to the relationship, I think it's helpful.
"Letting it go" is easier said then done, I've found. Strategies: focusing on the good instead of the bad, remembering my own irritating stuff that he's dealing with gracefully, and, um...alcohol? Selective hearing? The occasional blow-up followed by a thoughtful though passionate discussion of how things should have been dealt with differently? And...gratitude for a relatively successful long-term relationship (I was single for a loooong time).
I think dumplings are a pretty good metaphor for just one of those things that kinda sucks but whatever, if you're gonna be in a long-term relationship, something is gonna suck.
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My dh will eat leftovers, but he gets them for lunch most days. Left to his own devices, he will eat cheese and crackers rather than heat something up for dinner. But if *I* heat it up and arrange it neatly on a plate, he's fine with it. And he's a LOT less picky than he was when we met 40 years ago.
But he does like to eat out more than I do (which, admittedly, isn't a high bar, because I don't love eating out) and I think it's because he's able to eat slightly junkier food then. So, I'm trying to add in an occasionally junky item just for him - last week I bought a bag of tater tots, and you'd think he'd won the lottery!
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I would throttle him, yes. This brought back bad memories of a guy I dated in college who had no idea how to cook. I think his mother had done everything for him growing up. One of my main criteria for dating was always "is this guy a fully formed adult who can look after himself?" and, weirdly enough I've had 4 serious relationships in my lifetime (last one is my husband) and all have been good cooks and housekeepers apart from the one in college that I mentioned above. It wasn't that they were born knowing how to shop, cook and clean just that I never did it all and so they learned. My husband apparently didn't do any chores around the house growing up (he was the only boy) but he does a ton now.
Anyway it sounds like your husband never learnt shopping, cooking and household management. It sounds like it's time for him to learn so how about he takes over cooking a couple of nights a week and also does shopping? And no takeout doesn't count.
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There's stuff about my DH that drives me bonkers in my own marriage, too (just not this particular thing). I'm vaguely aware that there are things about me that drive him crazy, too. We've only been married 4 years, not 20.
I remember reading somewhere that all marriages actually contain "irreconcilable differences" and the successful ones have partners who are willing to just let the annoying stuff go. That's controversial advice, since some things are not a good idea to just "let go", but when both parties are acting in good faith and are equally committed to the relationship, I think it's helpful.
"Letting it go" is easier said then done, I've found. Strategies: focusing on the good instead of the bad, remembering my own irritating stuff that he's dealing with gracefully, and, um...alcohol? Selective hearing? The occasional blow-up followed by a thoughtful though passionate discussion of how things should have been dealt with differently? And...gratitude for a relatively successful long-term relationship (I was single for a loooong time).
I think dumplings are a pretty good metaphor for just one of those things that kinda sucks but whatever, if you're gonna be in a long-term relationship, something is gonna suck.
I agree - I didn't want to imply in the commend above that my marriage is perfect because it's not. I've been married for 10 years only and living together for 13 years. Luckily husband and I generally see eye to eye on money. He's actually probably more moustachian than me because he grew up poor. BUT on thing that could drive me crazy is that he doesn't agree with investing money in the stock market (I do index funds mainly like most mustachians) - some kind of irrational fear of losing everything and as I mentioned he grew up poor - but I just handle the finances and keep quiet about it.
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So long as its not ridiculous purchases (which for us is like $50 right now), I just chalk it up to marital happiness to just let it go. Especially if it isn't too frequent. He's making a lot of our household income right now, so if he wants to spend it on something like dumplings because that's what he wants at the time, I buy him the stupid dumplings.
Oh, penguin... your post made me so mad! Why on earth should he buy dumplings because he earns more?! I will admit to scenes like Laura33's in our home, regularly, but even when the income was 100% me and 0% him, the emotions about letting the DH have the damn dumplings (Sushi here) are the same -- just let him buy more toys / junk / entertainment etc because he earns more money?! Because he wants them and you love him and don't want to be THAT spouse?! Don't you realize that argument never works in reverse, and it is not just a gender thing?
Budgets are budgets for a reason.
(snip)
I think my original message was misspoken. Hubby makes most of the income, but rarely asks for things. Asking for things is his opportunity to include himself in the finer details of the budget. While we agree to x amount in y category, he generally leaves me to execute that in whatever way I see fit. I do 100% of the grocery shopping (and really, just about every type of purchases in general). If he never asked for anything, he wouldn't get things he would need or want. Keeping with the dumplings, we have $100/mo for eating out or $200/mo for groceries. If he asked for dumplings, I would just figure which way to obtain them for him.
His requests have two general qualities that make them better in my opinion:
1. requests are infrequent.
2. requests do not bust the budget category.
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This thread makes me glad my boyfriend eats pretty much anything. I do a few things to make it easier for him, regardless:
1. After cooking, I portion leftovers out into individual containers immediately.
2. His food has a specific spot in the fridge. The top shelf is only for bread and leftovers. Everything right of the breadline is his, everything left of the breadline is mine. We discussed this recently, and he was confident he could manage this 100% blind.
3. I make stuff he really likes.
4. I bulk-cook a wide variety of stuff on the weekends, so he has lots of options to pick from and doesn't have to eat the same stuff over and over.
5. I have a very minimal and organized fridge. It's impossible for anything to get lost or forgotten.
I'm a hyper-organized kitchen-nazi anyway, so none of the above requires any real effort on my part.
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Oh, Zikoris, I had forgotten about your breadline! :)