Case Study - At start of journey, potential costs of moving country

[InterfaceLeader]

Life Situation: 34, married, no children now or in future. HCOL city in the UK. Renting. We are planning to move to the USA in approx. 2 years.

Gross Salary/Wages: My Basic Pay: £2,739 /month.

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions:
£284.89 Pension contribution from me (employer contributes £80)
£104 Student Loan repayment
Spouse contributes £93 to his pension with employer matching 100%

Adjusted Gross Income:
Net Pay: £1,768.74 /month
+ c. £800 /month as spouse's contribution to joint accounts.

Taxes:
£339 Income Tax
£242.43 NI

Current expenses:
This was March:

Joint account income
Me: £1,600.00
Spouse: £900.00
Carry over: £64.87
Total income: £2,564.87

Joint account spending
Rent: £850.00
Council Tax: £148.93
Gas/Elec: £166.99 (double payment as we switched suppliers, this is normally half)
Water: £10.00
Internet: £28.00
TV License: £12.85
Veg Box: £77.70
Other Groceries/Household: £336.08
Take-away: £29.39
Mattress payment: £99.84 (0%, paid off in June)
Subscriptions: £17.98
Misc: £46
Total Expenses: £1,823.90

Sinking Funds:
Travel/Visa: £50.00 (Total saved: £539)
Emergency Fund: £250 (Total saved: £1,704.53)
Planned Purchases: £50 (Total saved: £305.00)
Total Saved: £350.00

My personal account:
Income:
Salary: £347.93 (nb, I just put my pension contribution up from 3% to 13% so this income will drop to £160ish this month)
Freelance: £57.81
Interest: £2.01

Expenses:
Phone: £7.50
Travel: £95.20
MA Expenses: £7.95
Photoshop subscription: £9.98
Lunch @ Work: £13.69 (I mostly take a packed lunch but every now and then I forget)
Exercise classes: £10.00 (Yoga)
Days Out: £10.00
Grooming/Clothes: £126.00 (A very high month for me as I bought new walking boots)
Misc: £8.49
P2P Contribution: £25.00 (Technically savings rather than expenses)
Total Expenses: £313.81


Assets:
£10,750.81 in a P2P account.
£7,207.49 in one old work pension
£8,237.92 in second (active) pension
£2,825.60 in third (active) pension
I have a defined benefit pension from an old employer worth a somewhat eyebrow raising £666 a year when I turn 65. This is not going to increase, except with inflation.

Liabilities:
-£6,545.81 left on student loan @ 1.05%. Paying it off £104 a month. Very favourable loan terms. I pay 9% of anything I earn over £18,935 before tax per year. It gets written off at some point although I am likely to pay it off before then, bar catastrophic job loss.

Current goals/situation:
My current goals are to get my Emergency Fund built up to 3 months expenses.
I just raised my pension contribution to 13% and we are planning to raise spouses to 8% if they introduce matching up to 8%. (Currently they match up to 4%).
Spouse gets a bonus each year, though it wasn't much this year.

Both of us work 30 hours a week and have no interest in working more - I want to become FI but not by sacrificing much more of my current life to work. I'm stuck at current employer until my MA is done (September 2020). Spouse really likes current job and is far less interested in FI than I am.

After September 2020 we want to move to the USA which is where spouse is from. At that point everything changes I guess.

Specific Question(s):

• How do I maximise the current stable period prior to the move? Should I be saving a bigger cash fund?
• After I meet my emergency fund goal what should my next move be? Bump up pension again? Or open some kind of investment account? I've heard of a SIPP but don't know anything about it.
• I know we spend too much on food. But what else is out of whack about our budget?
• What do we need to move to the USA? I am hoping we can live with relatives for a few months when we first get there. Obviously visa fees will be expensive. We won't be shipping our furniture etc. as it's all second hand. I have a small group of people who will try and help me find a job and I have no objection to working retail or customer service for a bit until I find something better paid.
  
• What additional expenses will we have in the USA? I know health insurance is a big one - how do I go about researching potential costs for that? We will be in Cincinnati, at least to start with.
  

My MA is purely for fun and I lucked out getting employer to pay for it. I doubt it will have any impact on my future earning capability (English Literature).

[Playing with Fire UK]

Hi and welcome!

@katekat has recently moved to the US and you can read about it here. @Kwill has moved the other way and may be able to advise on US costs compared to UK costs.

Have you checked that there is no requirement to stay with your employer after your MA is completed?

Is the idea that the move will be permanent; how likely is it to happen and be permanent?

After your e-fund is completed, I'd recommend looking at investing in a stocks and shares (S&S) ISA. Choose the cheapest provider on the Monevator table and buy a low fee global fund. Is there a difference between your e-fund and your P2P savings?

Do you have an idea of when you'd like to stop working? Before age 57 or 58 you won't have access to your UK pensions, but you can do some smart things with your US old age savings (that they won't call pensions) to get at them earlier.

Is your joint account balancing? The savings + expenses are a good bit lower than what is going in, but last month's carry over is lower than the difference? Are there more expenses here? Do you have records from the past year so you can get monthly averages? That mattress looks expensive - what's the story there? If you wanted to reduce food spend you can try https://cookingonabootstrap.com/ and https://www.budgetbytes.com/. Could you move somewhere with cheaper rent? Is your commute cyclable to reduce travel costs? Aside from that, it looks reasonable, you don't sound like you want to squeeze every penny out of your budget, is that right?

Do you have the paperwork for all your pensions? If not then ask for it (old job HR should be able to direct you). Have a look at the charges and fees, look for any guarantees associated with the pension. You might be able to save some money in fees by consolidating the pension pots (but don't close the active pensions).

Do you have a driving licence? You'll probably need a car in the US, so that could be worth saving for.

It's great that you have found a balance of work and leisure that is working for you - no suggestions from me to increase your hours.

[Kwill]

Hello. I'm the one who came US to UK, as Playing With Fire UK mentioned.

I found that the total percentage of my payslip that went to deductions (tax, insurance or NI, pension contributions, etc) came out almost exactly the same in both countries, even though the systems are so different. I think US insurance costs are higher now than they were when I moved to the UK, but still, if you have insurance through an employer in the US, the costs shouldn't usually be substantially more than you are paying in the UK. I wouldn't worry about that at this point.

When I came to the UK in early 2016, I was surprised by how cheap food was in the supermarket, and I started eating a lot more fruit because it was so cheap. Fruit and cheese and alcohol and bread and eggs and pasta are cheaper in the UK. Meat and rice and beans are cheaper in the US. Restaurants were more expensive than the US, but cooking at home felt like it was practically free.

My UK salary, when converted to USD, went farther in the UK than I would expect the same amount to go in the US, so even though I was being paid less than I had been in my last full-time US job, it worked out to be much more similar than I had expected. What people considered cheap or expensive also didn't match up with what exchange rates told me GBP was worth, so eventually I worked out my own version of the exchange rate to help me make practical daily decisions. For early 2016, that was 1.6 GBP to 1 USD (instead of 1.4), so essentially 6 months behind if you look at a chart of what the rates were doing. Now that the pound has been low so long, daily expenses are catching up.

The point of all that is that things may not line up exactly with what exchange rates and calculators tell you. How much a salary is relative to median household income in the country / region will tell you something that simply converting the currency won't. Which is maybe a long-winded way of saying you might need more money in the US than you'd expect based on your expenses in the UK. You may want to adjust some daily habits to take advantage of what is more or less expensive in the two countries.

At least in the academic sector, one way that recruitment is different in the US is that potential employers are more likely to request references before interviews, so the references are more important in the process than they are in the UK. I don't know how that is in other fields, but it wouldn't hurt to try to do your best in your current job. Maybe start networking a bit and also just building up your friends on Facebook so that you'll have a better sense of who you already know in the new area before you make a move.

[InterfaceLeader]

Hi and welcome!

Thank you! :D And for the links to relevant threads!

Have you checked that there is no requirement to stay with your employer after your MA is completed?

There is none. I work for an extremely tiny education non-profit and they believe in the value of education, so there's no strings attached. (Yes, I am very lucky)

Is the idea that the move will be permanent; how likely is it to happen and be permanent?

The jury is out on whether it will be permanent. My assumption is at least 5-10 years, to enable me to get dual citizenship. The fantasy is to be able to travel between the countries to spend equal times with both families, which is partly why FI is so attractive. My current assumption is at 'normal' retirement age we would be in the UK, due to both of us having pensions here and having paid NI to get the state pension (I would make up any shortfall in years whilst away)... also health care. But everything can change.

How likely is it? Well, we've had one go already but my visa was rejected because our financial sponsor didn't send the right paperwork, and at that point we'd been long distance for too long and needed to recalibrate. So this is round two. We are better prepared this time, and are trying to do it without living apart.

After your e-fund is completed, I'd recommend looking at investing in a stocks and shares (S&S) ISA. Choose the cheapest provider on the Monevator table and buy a low fee global fund. Is there a difference between your e-fund and your P2P savings?

Thanks!
The P2P is a £10k inheritance that I got a few years ago, when still in debt. I did not want to 'waste' this gift on paying off my stupid mistakes, so I put into P2P (not knowing any better and wanting to lock it away until I learned better financial habits). It is not an optimum place for it really. I think of it as being potentially a house deposit if we ever bought, but buying may not make sense for us currently due to volatility of living situation. It would be better in a LISA maybe, but I don't know what country we might buy in. So... I leave it in the P2P account and hope for the best? That's why I'm on this forum really, to try and figure this stuff out... :D

Do you have an idea of when you'd like to stop working? Before age 57 or 58 you won't have access to your UK pensions, but you can do some smart things with your US old age savings (that they won't call pensions) to get at them earlier.

No idea that is realistic, currently. But I am full of dreams of travel, hiking the Appalachian trail, writing novels. I spent three months in the USA visiting spouse and unable to work and it was the best three months of my adult life. Just going on adventures every day. So 'the sooner the better, but without sacrificing my current work/life balance'. It's vague and I should tighten it up.

Is your joint account balancing? The savings + expenses are a good bit lower than what is going in, but last month's carry over is lower than the difference? Are there more expenses here? Do you have records from the past year so you can get monthly averages?

We put more in savings the month before. I carried over a bigger balance this month. I have been meticulously tracking since January and it has balanced so far - I am looking forward to having a year's worth of data though. 

That mattress looks expensive - what's the story there?

The story is that we took a hotel bed and mattress from the hotel spouse worked out that they were throwing out. The bed is one of those two singles that join together to make a super king that they have in hotels, and the mattresses zipped together badly (also, they were old). We slept on them for 2.5 years while we paid off debt, and they broke us (I had so many back issues). After we finally paid off our cc, I decided we would buy an actual nice mattress -- but our bed was a super king. So we got a really good mattress (it fixed my back issues!) at a ridiculous size for a silly price. But we didn't have to buy a bed or a mattress when we first moved to HCOL city 3 years so I think it was a win overall.

If you wanted to reduce food spend you can try https://cookingonabootstrap.com/ and https://www.budgetbytes.com/.

Thanks! This is my challenge for next month, to try and keep the food spend below £250.

Could you move somewhere with cheaper rent? Is your commute cyclable to reduce travel costs? Aside from that, it looks reasonable, you don't sound like you want to squeeze every penny out of your budget, is that right?

We don't have a car! I walk to work and spouse cycles. The travel costs are somewhat atypical -- my Dad went into hospital and I rented a car to get back and forth to parents house. However, I do visit my parents and my godchildren alternately once a month and travel by rental car or by train. I am looking for ways to bring this down, I don't have a good system yet.

I don't want to squeeze every penny, just not succumb to lifestyle creep.

We have a really good rental, the landlord lives opposite and is super lovely and hasn't put the price up since we moved in. Anything cheaper would almost certainly require a commute that would probably make the figures a wash. Having had a few nightmare rentals, I'd be reluctant to change unless it saved a significant chunk.

Do you have the paperwork for all your pensions? If not then ask for it (old job HR should be able to direct you). Have a look at the charges and fees, look for any guarantees associated with the pension. You might be able to save some money in fees by consolidating the pension pots (but don't close the active pensions).

I do - I used to have a third old pension but rolled that into my active pension. I am considering doing the same with the other old pension, but need to check the fees etc first.

Do you have a driving licence? You'll probably need a car in the US, so that could be worth saving for.

Yes I do. And good point re saving for a car. I'll add that to the list of stuff we'll need money for.

It's great that you have found a balance of work and leisure that is working for you - no suggestions from me to increase your hours.

Phew :D

[InterfaceLeader]

Hello. I'm the one who came US to UK, as Playing With Fire UK mentioned.

Hello :D Looking forward to reading your thread.

I found that the total percentage of my payslip that went to deductions (tax, insurance or NI, pension contributions, etc) came out almost exactly the same in both countries, even though the systems are so different. I think US insurance costs are higher now than they were when I moved to the UK, but still, if you have insurance through an employer in the US, the costs shouldn't usually be substantially more than you are paying in the UK. I wouldn't worry about that at this point.

That's useful to know, thanks (and interesting given a general impression that Americans pay lower taxes!)

When I came to the UK in early 2016, I was surprised by how cheap food was in the supermarket, and I started eating a lot more fruit because it was so cheap. Fruit and cheese and alcohol and bread and eggs and pasta are cheaper in the UK. Meat and rice and beans are cheaper in the US. Restaurants were more expensive than the US, but cooking at home felt like it was practically free.

That is very interesting, as I had assumed food was generally cheaper in the USA. We eat a lot of fruit (and bread and cheese). We may have to shift some eating habits around.

At least in the academic sector, one way that recruitment is different in the US is that potential employers are more likely to request references before interviews, so the references are more important in the process than they are in the UK. I don't know how that is in other fields, but it wouldn't hurt to try to do your best in your current job. Maybe start networking a bit and also just building up your friends on Facebook so that you'll have a better sense of who you already know in the new area before you make a move.

Also really helpful, thank you. My current manager will give me a glowing reference and is formerly of the USA so will understand the system well I think. (She's actually been my manager through two jobs, for various reasons, and went out of her way to hire me for the second job). We have in some aspects a ready-made network in the USA as spouse's family is one of those that seem to comprise of thousands of people all willing to do favours for each other. It's a bit of shock compared to my own very small family who value 'getting on with it' and independence. I also in my distant past used to work with someone in a remote company who has since gone on to do fantastic things and we still keep in touch and are friendly. But networking is definitely not a strong point of mine (I tend towards the introverted) so I will work on that.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Could you move somewhere with cheaper rent? Is your commute cyclable to reduce travel costs? Aside from that, it looks reasonable, you don't sound like you want to squeeze every penny out of your budget, is that right?

We don't have a car! I walk to work and spouse cycles. The travel costs are somewhat atypical -- my Dad went into hospital and I rented a car to get back and forth to parents house. However, I do visit my parents and my godchildren alternately once a month and travel by rental car or by train. I am looking for ways to bring this down, I don't have a good system yet.

I don't want to squeeze every penny, just not succumb to lifestyle creep.

We have a really good rental, the landlord lives opposite and is super lovely and hasn't put the price up since we moved in. Anything cheaper would almost certainly require a commute that would probably make the figures a wash. Having had a few nightmare rentals, I'd be reluctant to change unless it saved a significant chunk.

Cool, I'd thought the travel cost was public transport - that's one of the differences between one month's costs and averaged monthly costs. Hope your Dad is getting better.

That rental makes sense - just checking. If you can sort accommodation, food and transport while avoiding wild spending you are 90% of the way there.

What's the situation with your spouse's work prospects in the US? He is currently earning less than you (based on joint account contributions?)? Are you looking to save enough so that you can live off savings until you both have permanent jobs (as opposed to the stop-gap jobs that you mentioned)? Have you thought about the feasibility of working 30 hours per week and get health insurance through work, or is that something you'd compromise on if necessary?

You are lucky with your work - hope the MA is going well. That seems really generous.

That first visa application sounds tough, hope it goes better this time. Do consider that if you are a US citizen you will have to file (and possibly pay) US taxes forever wherever you live. It sounds like it makes sense for the life that you describe.

A LISA won't work for you if you buy in the US. You can still hold an S&S ISA, but you won't get the same tax advantages when you are paying US taxes and you won't be able to contribute when you are outside the UK.

It makes sense for you to hold more cash than other 34 year olds as you have expenses coming up. I'd recommend an S&S ISA to start learning about investing. Choose one with low % fees and no dealing charges for funds. Then when you are settled you can turbo charge your savings and decide when to retire or take a career break!

[katekat]

posting to follow. When I get time I'll come back and see what I can add re:expenses that we had moving UK > US :)

[InterfaceLeader]

What's the situation with your spouse's work prospects in the US? He is currently earning less than you (based on joint account contributions?)? Are you looking to save enough so that you can live off savings until you both have permanent jobs (as opposed to the stop-gap jobs that you mentioned)? Have you thought about the feasibility of working 30 hours per week and get health insurance through work, or is that something you'd compromise on if necessary?

Work in the USA is probably the place where I'm most unsure. Current plan is for spouse to go into some kind of trade apprenticeship (we will start looking more formally once we've firmed up dates and such). He's not academic, but he's done building work before and he likes physical, get out-and-about type jobs. So he's unlikely to earn much at the start, but potential for higher income in time. Along the lines of plumbing, electrician etc. If he went that route he would have to work the hours of the apprenticeship.

For me, I am pretty flexible, my background is mostly marketing and communications and I've also got certifications in customer service and project management. I would be reasonably confident in landing something with decent pay/benefits unless there's a recession, and I know people in the US who work in local government and environmental charities both of which I have in my background. They generally are more amenable to flexible working as well. But, yes, if necessary I would bump up my hours to secure a job and health insurance.

[InterfaceLeader]

posting to follow. When I get time I'll come back and see what I can add re:expenses that we had moving UK > US :)

Just to say, I am reading your journal and my spouse works nights in a supermarket, and I did (prior to him getting a bike and us giving up the car) drive him to and from work which was a nightmare as it meant never getting a lie in. Anyway, reading your journal is quite spooky!

[Kwill]

My current assumption is at 'normal' retirement age we would be in the UK, due to both of us having pensions here and having paid NI to get the state pension (I would make up any shortfall in years whilst away)

One thing to note is that there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and the UK, so UK NI contributions can count toward US social security, and US social security contributions can count toward UK state pension. I was going to give you a link, but the more I try to read about it, the less I understand. They might just count a little of the other country's contributions if you otherwise wouldn't qualify for any pension in either country, but I'd thought it was a better deal the first time I saw it.

Also, because there's a reciprocal agreement on pensions, things held in pensions for US taxes or things held in IRAs for UK taxes (probably the same for 401k / 403b) are slightly less complicated to deal with. But UK ISAs aren't specifically related to retirement, so they get taxed the same as ordinary bank savings accounts for US purposes. And UK mutual funds or stocks held within ISAs can complicate US taxes. I think US citizens can get taxed on UK lump sum pension payments as regular income because the lump sum doesn't exist in the US system. I believe my UK employer's system will allow me to give up right to the lump sum in exchange for increasing the defined benefit, which I have thought about doing if it seems better once I get to that point. If the lump sum pushed the year's income into a high tax bracket, taxes could take a big lump sum out of it.

Even after googling, I'm not sure exactly what a P2P account is, but you might look into the US tax implications if any, especially if you are looking to move the funds into something else anyway.

[InterfaceLeader]

One thing to note is that there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and the UK, so UK NI contributions can count toward US social security, and US social security contributions can count toward UK state pension. I was going to give you a link, but the more I try to read about it, the less I understand. They might just count a little of the other country's contributions if you otherwise wouldn't qualify for any pension in either country, but I'd thought it was a better deal the first time I saw it.

I did not know that. I will up read about it. I find everything about UK/USA financial laws confusing. And visa laws, frankly...  and of course, things can change in thirty years!

Even after googling, I'm not sure exactly what a P2P account is, but you might look into the US tax implications if any, especially if you are looking to move the funds into something else anyway.

Apologies, it is Peer to Peer (Zopa). It's not a tax advantaged account in any way, I put the money in and let it pay me interest which goes back into the pot. I chose it because it seemed to have higher interest rates than any other savings account available to me at the time and I wouldn't be able to access the money quickly, but now that I'm older and wiser I've learned that it is apparently also riskier than other ways to save :P

[katekat]

So here is a brief post about the kinds of costs I incurred (and other financial costs) moving to the US. Even if they look precise, all numbers are approximate due to currency conversion, rounding, and my own human error :)

First of all, visa. Total fees I paid for the various forms, etc, were right around £800. My medical exam cost an additional £420 -- that included some vaccinations that I'm not up-to-date on, but I'm afraid I didn't split out the cost of those. You also have to consider the cost of various incidentals -- I have tons of tiny stuff filed under 'immigration' in my expenditure diary, including pritt stick (for attaching photos to forms), postage costs for stuff, getting passport photos taken (in US format), etc -- but the primary expensive 'incidental' is going to be going to London, unless of course that's where you live ;) At a minimum you will have 1 medical appointment in London and 1 embassy interview in London, and you may have pretty limited control over the time of day that those are. I had to budget for trains and hotels but obviously it depends on your location how pricey this bit will be. I won't go on about visa stuff because there are far better resources than me out there, but I'm happy to talk about it any time you would like.

Not shipping furniture is a good plan. We made the same decision, but we still have some stuff that can't be carried over in baggage on a plane. We actually haven't moved that stuff yet but it's worth considering whether you have anything like that, especially sentimental stuff, and whether you might store it/move it. My pile of stuff is sitting at my dad's house and if I didn't have that option I would have had to move faster. We have looked at prices and it is going to cost us about £1000 to have our big pile of heavy sentimental stuff + a desktop computer shipped through upackweship, eventually. We also moved cats and that was VERY expensive. The number is somewhere in my journal but since it doesn't seem relevant to you I will not dig it out and go through sticker shock again.

Obviously you will need to price flights to move yourselves. Buying one-way flights can be expensive due to the algorithms used to price them. I actually ended up buying a return and not using my second half, airlines apparently hate this but it was soooo much cheaper than the one-way with the same outward bound flight. Have a look into taking an extra bag if necessary, it's usually not very much money. I got those vacuum-pack clothes bags and it's amazing how much you can fit into 2 hold bags if you use them.

Living with relatives would be a big help if you can swing it. My husband lived with his parents until he got a job and it was such a weight off our minds to not be committed to any expenses for the beginning. Even apart from the expense, it will probably be difficult to find someone willing to rent to you if you arrive and have no income. It might be worth trying to confirm this a bit, and also scoping out how your spouse's US credit score is looking and whether you have any friends/relatives who might be willing to cosponsor things in the US (apartment, car loan, etc) if necessary (not sure if you are asking someone to cosponsor the visa, but maybe this could be part of the same conversations).

PWF mentioned a car, and that's a great point, too. I found (used) cars seem more expensive in the US than the UK. I spent over $10k on my car and I don't think I have flashy taste. Think about whether you will need zero or one or two cars in your new lifestyle. I don't think we could have gotten by very easily without two, unfortunately. Are you comfortable driving in the US? I ended up wanting some driving lessons and spent $380 on them. I also spent money in the early days getting around by lyft.

Health insurance is complicated to price out in advance. First thing to look at is whether your spouse will qualify for medicaid in your chosen state on the basis of zero income (this depends on state). Unfortunately, you won't qualify as a new LPR. I found that working out health insurance in advance beyond this was close to impossible, unfortunately. Here is a bit of a thread where I talked about this but I didn't really manage to work it out in advance.

Sorry, this was a bit stream-of-consciousness and unfocused, but I will come back if I think of anything else helpful :)

[InterfaceLeader]

Thank you very much for all the information :) It all sounds more expensive than I want it to be, but that's par for the course with moving country I guess!

Fun fact, I passed my UK driving test, did not drive in the UK as had no car, went to USA on a holiday and somehow my first post-test drive ended up being driving a carful of drunk shouting men in a giant American car across a busy American city. Because I guess they were just going to have someone drive drunk otherwise?? I would not repeat that experience. Driving lessons are a good idea.

So it sounds like

• £1.2k for visa fees and medical
• £2k-ish for plane tickets
• £8k-ish for a car
• ?? for health insurance
• ?? for security deposit/month's rent/expenses etc.

Train travel to London is negligible for me, thankfully.

I'm confident we will have housing for the first couple of months, his family have been desperate to have him back and will do whatever they can to ease the transition :P

[Playing with Fire UK]

That first post-test drive sounds terrifying. I found driving on the "wrong" side and in a car the "wrong" way round a steep learning curve and that was after I was confident on the right side.

[katekat]

So it sounds like

• £1.2k for visa fees and medical
• £2k-ish for plane tickets
• £8k-ish for a car
• ?? for health insurance
• ?? for security deposit/month's rent/expenses etc.

Train travel to London is negligible for me, thankfully.

You should consider the difference between expenses you need to save for in advance (visa fees, flights, etc) and ones you are willing/able to take on debt for (e.g. potentially car). I know that it can feel pretty un-MMM to take on debt on purpose, but we have a car loan and for us after running the numbers it is the right financial choice. It is worth checking on your SO's credit score and getting an idea of rates and thinking about whether you'd be willing to take on debt for the car and if it would be the right choice for you. I'm not sure if you're trying to work out 'costs' exactly, or 'what I should have saved up'.

[reeshau]

One thing to note is that there is a reciprocal agreement between the US and the UK, so UK NI contributions can count toward US social security, and US social security contributions can count toward UK state pension. I was going to give you a link, but the more I try to read about it, the less I understand. They might just count a little of the other country's contributions if you otherwise wouldn't qualify for any pension in either country, but I'd thought it was a better deal the first time I saw it.

I did not know that. I will up read about it. I find everything about UK/USA financial laws confusing. And visa laws, frankly...  and of course, things can change in thirty years!

It actually can work for you or against you.  There could of course be something specific in the UK treaty, (and I have focused on Ireland's) but in general if you have contributions in a country that won't earn you a pension, the contributions can be counted toward US Social Security.  If you, however, earn two pensions, that can actually reduce your US pension, as foreign pensions are subject to the windfall elimination provision.

https://www.ssa.gov/international/wep_intro.html

yes, it's confusing as all get-out. 

[InterfaceLeader]

You should consider the difference between expenses you need to save for in advance (visa fees, flights, etc) and ones you are willing/able to take on debt for (e.g. potentially car). I know that it can feel pretty un-MMM to take on debt on purpose, but we have a car loan and for us after running the numbers it is the right financial choice. It is worth checking on your SO's credit score and getting an idea of rates and thinking about whether you'd be willing to take on debt for the car and if it would be the right choice for you. I'm not sure if you're trying to work out 'costs' exactly, or 'what I should have saved up'.

Costs at this point, but I'm going to break down 'what needs to be saved by when' at the same time I work out the visa timeline... which I will do once he gets confirmation they've accepted his latest US tax return. That should give me a better idea if what is feasible! 

We are going to the US for three weeks in July to visit the in-laws, and we will take that opportunity to have the conversations about living situation/financial sponsorship for the visa and we'll also look into his credit score then. I talked to him briefly yesterday, and he still has a US account with a credit union that apparently do favourable auto loans. And I believe he still has a US credit card in his name, which we use when we go there for holidays. So hopefully he has some credit history. 

I would want to avoid as much debt as possible, only because we took on quite a lot of debt when doing the visa process the other way, and he came here... we underestimated both the cost of the visa process and the cost of living (as I had only ever rented a single room in a house share prior to him coming here) -- and he struggled enormously to find work when he first arrived (he did some truly awful jobs). So I would need a pretty good emergency fund in place. Right now we are pretty secure, debt-free, decently paid and fairly stable, so I want to try and make the most of it!