Author Topic: I want my lifestyle inflation.  (Read 16828 times)

kellyincville

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2017, 05:29:21 PM »
Have you spent any significant time around openly rich (really rich) people?

+1

In general nouveau riche are not people to aspire to be, which is what you appear to be doing. 

tyort1

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »
There is an undeniable appeal of being rich, dressing up, drinking cocktails all day, and hanging out with other rich people all night.  Lets all be a part of the aristocracy.

Actually, that sounds quite awful to me. 
Frugalite in training.

Cranky

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2017, 05:47:25 AM »
Drinking cocktails all day and hanging out with rich people at night sounds like no fun at all to me. LOL

But when we were really broke and every single penny was accounted for, and all of next year's pennies, too, I really did want lots of *stuff*, not especially because I needed it but because I couldn't have it. I used to have a whole notebook full of lists of stuff that I wanted. Just making the lists made me feel better about it, too.

And now - I really don't care. I have plenty of stuff, too much stuff. Also, I'm mystified by the Rolex? What does it do besides tell you the time?

sokoloff

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2017, 06:08:39 AM »
Also, I'm mystified by the Rolex? What does it do besides tell you the time?
A Rolex is not bought for what it tells the wearer...

nouveauRiche

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2017, 06:53:25 AM »
Clearly you only associate with those you meet at the airport as you step off of your corporate jets.

But what if you accidentally associated with (gasp) a non-rich corporate jet pilot?


A Rolex is not bought for what it tells the wearer...

Spot on.

Jouer

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2017, 07:05:00 AM »
I thought this was satire from the point the OP mentioned energy drink and a muffin. The whole post seemed so perfectly wrong.

nouveauRiche

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2017, 10:06:28 AM »
I thought this was satire from the point the OP mentioned energy drink and a muffin. The whole post seemed so perfectly wrong.

Could be.  I was taking his posts at face value.  And finding it incredibly hard to relate. 

bridget

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2017, 11:43:18 AM »
I think this is the reason MMM came up with the concept of "facepunches" (which I usually don't love). I don't really have any actionable advice for the OP other than to just get over it and knock it off, because his desires are so over-the-top. I can relate to having 1-3 categories of "nice things" that someone would decide bring enough happiness to be worth paying for (might be cars, or clothes, or wine, whatever), but wanting all of the nice things simply to feel like you are a rich nice-thing haver? The only advice I have is to just stop it. 

Clean Shaven

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2017, 11:59:50 AM »
If OP isn't trolling, and is actually serious, then I think it's already been said in this thread:  if OP thinks that stuff is going to make him happy and fulfilled, then go bust your ass chasing all that shit, and see if it does. 

A lot of Americans think and live (or try to live) that way.  I don't know if it makes most or any of them happy.

nouveauRiche

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2017, 12:22:22 PM »
In general nouveau riche are not people to aspire to be, which is what you appear to be doing.

Wait!  What's wrong with being nouveau riche?  (Tee hee)

CheapScholar

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2017, 02:31:06 PM »
LMAO.  You make 72K and you want to buy a Rolex and two luxury cars.

You're either a troll or very bad at math.

RFAAOATB

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2017, 11:33:16 PM »
How are you going to identify the other rich people with whom you would like to hang out?  That Rolex on the other guy's wrist might be a cheap knock-off.  His Armani suit could be from a consignment shop.  You'll need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Are you going to introduce yourself at a bar/resort/club and ask "What's your net worth?  Here's mine."?

I would imagine that's what expensive clubs are for.  The entrance fee keeps out those that can't afford to pay.  Not growing up rich, I have no idea how any of that all works.  One thing I remember reading online, when flying first class looking at the watch is a good indicator of if the passenger bought the first class ticket or was upgraded.

LMAO.  You make 72K and you want to buy a Rolex and two luxury cars.

You're either a troll or very bad at math.

I suspect if I was very good at math I would be making a lot more than 72k. 

JLee

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2017, 11:55:30 PM »
How are you going to identify the other rich people with whom you would like to hang out?  That Rolex on the other guy's wrist might be a cheap knock-off.  His Armani suit could be from a consignment shop.  You'll need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Are you going to introduce yourself at a bar/resort/club and ask "What's your net worth?  Here's mine."?

I would imagine that's what expensive clubs are for.  The entrance fee keeps out those that can't afford to pay.  Not growing up rich, I have no idea how any of that all works. One thing I remember reading online, when flying first class looking at the watch is a good indicator of if the passenger bought the first class ticket or was upgraded.

LMAO.  You make 72K and you want to buy a Rolex and two luxury cars.

You're either a troll or very bad at math.

I suspect if I was very good at math I would be making a lot more than 72k.

https://www.wework.com/creator/work-life-balance/can-learn-watches-powerful-influential/

Villanelle

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2017, 01:21:23 AM »
How are you going to identify the other rich people with whom you would like to hang out?  That Rolex on the other guy's wrist might be a cheap knock-off.  His Armani suit could be from a consignment shop.  You'll need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Are you going to introduce yourself at a bar/resort/club and ask "What's your net worth?  Here's mine."?

I would imagine that's what expensive clubs are for.  The entrance fee keeps out those that can't afford to pay.  Not growing up rich, I have no idea how any of that all works.  One thing I remember reading online, when flying first class looking at the watch is a good indicator of if the passenger bought the first class ticket or was upgraded.

LMAO.  You make 72K and you want to buy a Rolex and two luxury cars.

You're either a troll or very bad at math.

I suspect if I was very good at math I would be making a lot more than 72k.

So now you are adding "expensive club membership and dues" to your lists of future wants? 

Bicycle_B

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2017, 07:06:47 AM »
Gang, OP is serious.  He deserves worthy responses for that, as a person and also as the rare poster who persists on this board while admitting desires far beyond the typical Realm of the Mustache. 


How are you going to identify the other rich people with whom you would like to hang out?  That Rolex on the other guy's wrist might be a cheap knock-off.  His Armani suit could be from a consignment shop.  You'll need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Are you going to introduce yourself at a bar/resort/club and ask "What's your net worth?  Here's mine."?

I would imagine that's what expensive clubs are for.  The entrance fee keeps out those that can't afford to pay.  Not growing up rich, I have no idea how any of that all works. One thing I remember reading online, when flying first class looking at the watch is a good indicator of if the passenger bought the first class ticket or was upgraded.


@RFAAOATB, now the light dawns.  I didn't grow up rich either, but got access to some of them a few times.  That as much as my own experiences helped get over the surging desires that occupied my brain for a while. 

Because I felt the same way you do, albeit with differing details.  Your Rolex lifestyle was my "I've made it when I have a sparkling Acura NSX," which was the hot new car of its day.  To be fully happy, I remember confessing tearfully, would take millions.  (I was jobless at the time, moving from one city to another en route to what turned out to be a $4.25/hour job.)

Shifting from these feelings was gradual.  I won't lie that in my case, part of the adjustment was necessity - I was failing to make much, therefore I needed thrifty behavior to accumulate cash.  Eventually my pride in thrift as a strength of mine developed; pride in nice things that I acquired cheaply developed; and from experience, I learned how much more valuable relationships and freedom were to me, rather than expensive things.  This happened even though I eventually earned much more and did acquire some nice things, including a fancy though less expensive car...twice.  Differentiating myself from other people of ordinary means and below helped too - I couldn't help but notice that some people with skills beyond me still had less, or got less out of it, so I began respecting myself for what I had accomplished so far.  Finally I came to peace with myself as who I am, and am quite happy with that. 

Yet it helped that after high school, I got a scholarship to a fancy college where many students came from privileged backgrounds.  I watched them reference their elite prep schools, meet old friends when I was alone, trade stories of fancy cars their parents gave them.  I saw them work for their medical degrees in some cases, or go to business school instead.  I visited their multimillion dollar homes, heard stories from other kids of modest means who visited other wealthy parents, pondered the mystery of where the dad who did nothing but play golf and read the paper and tweak his investments had got the money.  And I learned that they varied in character, but the prep schools didn't make them smarter really.  Their skill sets were different from mine, but they had gaps and weaknesses as well as mysterious strengths. 

The bulk of outcomes appeared to come from decisiveness, planning and personal effort, with the networking gifts that were beyond me accounting for another 20%.  That left 80% that was achievable, plus they had weaknesses that I didn't (cluelessness, softness, less determination, ignorance of how weak they looked for not earning their advantages; less internal drive in most cases).  They also didn't look happier... for every stable happy person with no problems (I was jealous), there was a person with sad family relationships who was lonely; for every one barreling down daddy's path to med school, there was an argument with the parents; and sometimes there was unspeakable melancholy, leading later to suicide.  Maybe they had advantages, but they were human.

Later there were more cases.  For example, a friend of mine knows people in the billion dollar category, and reports that they do not use the same measuring sticks you or young me were thinking of.  Sometimes they dress in modest clothes, drive you along in their modest car, and when they pass the mall in a big city, say things like "That was part of our ranch", which is their way of showing you their status.  He reports they don't seem any happier than anyone else and are "boring."

Had I not experienced these things, I would not as easily have come to peace.  I still might have felt I was missing something.  If the mysterious rich are still far away, how do you know there is not something wonderful at their party that you are missing?  I empathize with you about this, it is a very natural feeling. 

If these stories help you come to peace, I will be glad.  In any case, best of luck in your adventures.

Sun Hat

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2017, 08:01:08 AM »
Your situation got me thinking quite a lot, since I know that I feel pangs of "why not me" envy at times too. What I find helps with most of my decision making - whether related to money or not - is asking myself "what's worth it?" That and Excel spreadsheets - I love spreadsheets!

What I'd suggest is to do some easy math (the only kind I do). First of all, make a bare-bones version of your budget. This will leave a remainder that you can allocate to luxuries without taking on debt to do so. I'm going to call this the "fat".  In a spreadsheet, list all of the luxury goods/services that you want, their prices, and the price/fat to determine how long it would take to pay for that luxury if that was the only one that you devoted your money to during that period.

You'll also have to determine what carrying costs each luxury has for maintenance after purchase.

Then, rank each purchase in order that you want to acquire them. Deduct the carrying cost from your available "fat" after each purchase to see how previous purchases will impact the timelines on obtaining your future ones.

For instance, if you start by buying a 500K home, you'll have to factor in the maintenance, insurance and tax cost into your math to see how long it will take you to pay for the luxury vehicles to park in front of it.

I think that the exercise will let you evaluate how much enjoyment you'll really get from each purchase when you consider how long it will take to pay for. Will you really enjoy a 500K home so much more than a 300K home enough to justify eating rice and beans for 20 years?

I hope that in the end, you'll be able to find luxuries that you can fit into your budget more regularly, so that you get that rush of reward more often. For less than the cost of a used Rolex, you can get a couple bespoke suits and a closet full of tailor-made shirts (which will make you look and feel like a million bucks - for about $100). Having a modest house that you maintain well is a delight - and you'll be able to eat more muffins while you live there.

I'm not going to suggest that you live on a shoestring if that makes you unhappy, but to protect yourself from the disaster of having it all and then losing it - maybe be selective. A friend of mine does just this. He has a taste for the best things in life, so he prioritizes. He and his family have a lovely modest house, one car, drink great wine and while they don't eat out often (one every other month or so), they go to top-tier places. To him, he has it all - including a very small mortgage. For me, I prefer to save my pennies and enjoy the luxury of watching the stream of luxury vehicles stream past me in the morning while their drivers are on their way to work, while I get to walk my dog without looking at my watch.






Acastus

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2017, 08:38:52 AM »
How are you going to identify the other rich people with whom you would like to hang out?  That Rolex on the other guy's wrist might be a cheap knock-off.  His Armani suit could be from a consignment shop.  You'll need a way to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Are you going to introduce yourself at a bar/resort/club and ask "What's your net worth?  Here's mine."?

I would imagine that's what expensive clubs are for.  The entrance fee keeps out those that can't afford to pay.  Not growing up rich, I have no idea how any of that all works.  One thing I remember reading online, when flying first class looking at the watch is a good indicator of if the passenger bought the first class ticket or was upgraded.


This is an odd outlook. Do you really decide who your friends are based on how much they make or are worth? I still have some friends from college, lo those many moons ago. Some are worth 50 million. Some are sort of broke. Most are a slice of the USA. Money has nothing to do with why we are friends. It is our interests and shared history that binds us together.

One reality of living large - those who can easily afford it can live the jet set life. They will quickly leave the frugal behind, and will hang out together less. I think it is better to find activities that all can join. You are doing it to hang out with your friends anyway, aren't you?

Easye418

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2017, 09:11:36 AM »
There is an undeniable appeal of being rich, dressing up, drinking cocktails all day, and hanging out with other rich people all night.  Lets all be a part of the aristocracy.

Actually, that sounds quite awful to me.

+1.  if I was extremely wealthy, I would venture away from other people, even more than I have now.

OP sounds like a lot of people in the Dallas Metroplex now and days, but the only difference, is they take on all the debt at the same time at whatever income they have. 

It's nauseating.  But hey, YOLO, if you want to be a cash money millionaire, fake it till you make it.
You either cut expenses, raise income, or both.  Simple as that.

Laura33

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2017, 10:03:28 AM »
. . . .

Thank you for this. ITA.  I have been there, had that aching feeling of never being good enough, of why couldn't I have All The Things rich people had, just because I didn't choose my parents as well as they did?  I think that is a natural reaction, at least for many people.  But the difference between me at say 25 and me at 50 is:

-- I had a lot more time to see examples of "too much" leading to misery instead of happiness.  E.g., when that TV show with Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie was on, I remember thinking: you had every privilege, every opportunity in the world to do or be whatever you wanted -- and you decided to be a shallow, entitled twit?  Or the Real Housewives of NY:  that was hard at first, because my secret dream, the Powerball fantasy, was always to have a swanky apartment in Manhattan, and here are these people living my dream!  But you know what they did?  They got all caught up in arguments about meaningless, trivial things -- and acted like it was the end of the world!  Seriously: you get my dream, and that's the best you can do?

-- I got to see some of the effects of my own hard work and talents pay off.  I did hard, good things at work, and got praised for them.  I paid off my student loans and saved and bought a home of my own.  I was achieving things myself -- me, without any family name or connections -- and standing on my own two feet, and I could legitimately take pride in that.

-- I watched my brothers blow it, and I resented the hell out of them.  I had to work and earn scholarships to get through college, and my brothers got full rides from the Bank of Dad.  And they fucking squandered it -- 5-6 years, multiple schools, floundering in the post-college careers, etc.  How could they just toss aside what I would have give my right arm for?  And then someone said:  maybe you are where you are because you had to work for everything, not in spite of it.  Oh.  I realized they were right. 

-- I finally got to the point where I could see compounding in action -- both in terms of financial results, and in terms of career trajectory.  All of those years of slogging away and busting hump and saving money and chasing jobs across the country somehow converted themselves into highly-compensated jobs and a significant 'stache.  And I didn't even realize it when it happened!  I was too busy living my life.  I was able to loosen up and take a big trip around 45, and then of course there's the stupid car this year.  It's probably best I couldn't afford that stuff back then, because I would have thrown the money away on crap that didn't matter.  Now I am old enough to have a better sense of the specific luxuries that really do make me happy -- not because they impress other people, but because I enjoy the hell out of them.

I know this is long already, but one final thought:  there was one single key that changed my mindset when everything was going badly, and it was realizing that everything is a choice, and that if I don't like where I am, I can make a different one.  I was miserably unhappy when DH lost his job and we had to move across the country when I was a year away from partnership at my dream job.  But I chose to stay married -- I could have stayed put and said 'bye, but my marriage was more important to me, and so I followed that value.  I was on a reduced schedule for many years with kids, and so I saw a lot of other people make a lot more than I did, and it hit my ego and annoyed me.  But I realized that I chose that schedule, because I liked being able to leave at 4 and get my kids and make dinner and have my evenings as a family.  And I thought about it and realized that I wouldn't trade that time with myself and my family for any amount of money.  Because that's the other key:  choices always have tradeoffs.  I could have been a partner years ago instead of taking a 30% paycut to take a job I ended up hating -- but I'd have done it without DH, and I wouldn't have my kids now.  You can't look at the green grass on the other side of the fence without also noticing just how many hours your neighbor puts in to keep it looking perfect.

You have the exact same power I do.  If you really want big bucks and all the stuff, you have the inalienable right to chase that dollar to NY or SF or wherever, to bust your hump for 80+ hours a week, to go get an MBA or whatever, and to dedicate your life to pursuing that dream.  But that will also involve tradeoffs in where you live, how much time and energy you have with your family, and even perhaps your family itself if their dreams are different.  This is not about you not being able to get what you want -- this is about choosing what you want most.  Right now, you seem to be choosing a reasonable job and a reasonably frugal life.  IME, that is the actual path to real happiness -- you just have to remind yourself of that sometimes when the envy sets in.
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JLee

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #119 on: August 04, 2017, 12:32:44 PM »
Also, if you ever feel like you're poor and failing at life, here's a reality check.

I look at this every so often just to keep in mind how fortunate I actually am.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

starguru

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2017, 12:47:49 PM »
Quote
Income: 119k gross, 47k for her, 72k main work and 5k National Guard for me
Retirement savings: Max out 457 and ROTH IRA for me, $200/month 457 for her
Net income is about $5400 a month

We have enough money to support a decent middle class life.  Now that that's taken care of, I want more.
Desired Lifestyle
I want a $500,000 4000sqft house.  I want two luxury vehicles, perhaps an Escalade and a BMW.  I want a 3-30k Rolex.  I want $200 date nights at least once a month.  I want to go out to lunch more often and stop worrying that my wife is going out to lunch too much.  Hell, I even want to go back to having cable TV as well.  Maybe even buy a $4 coffee every day.  I would prefer to get this done within the next ten years.


I would never begrudge someone wanting more.  I myself am a watch person.  The problem here is not that you want to splurge more, it's that you cannot afford *all* the things you want. 

The mortgage on 400k is roughly $1900 month, assuming you can come up with 100k for the downpayment.
The monthly payment on an Escalade is over 1k a month (I just configured a random one on the cadillac website). 
Depending on the BMW it could be the same.

You could easily be spending 4k of your 5.4k income JUST on mortgage and cars payments.  And don't forget your larger house and fancier cars are going to cost more to insure and upkeep. 

You simply cannot afford all those things.  Even if you could technically make the payments you are one job loss or unexpected expense away from disaster.

Why don't you ramp up slowly? Buy a fancy watch, see if it makes you feel better.  If it doesn't you haven't lost that much.  If you buy a car or a house and regret it you will have a much more difficult time recovering.

 Like I said, I'm a watch person, which watch are you considering?  PM me if you want some advice and don't want it in this public forum.

tyort1

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2017, 01:19:46 PM »
You can have all the things you listed in your first post.  But you won't be FI or ever be RE.  It's really up to you.
Frugalite in training.

Genevieve

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #122 on: August 04, 2017, 01:32:17 PM »
I know people who have all of what you want, but they make $800k as a family in NYC. Even if you adjust the income down for a less expensive area, its way more than you make. Your dreams are too big for your income. The debt required to do so is unsustainable ... so you could have the high levels e for awhile, and then spend even longer living on less than your current standard of living to make up for it.

Feivel2000

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #123 on: August 04, 2017, 01:33:04 PM »
Also, if you ever feel like you're poor and failing at life, here's a reality check.

I look at this every so often just to keep in mind how fortunate I actually am.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/
Wonderful!


RFAAOATB

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #124 on: August 04, 2017, 04:30:08 PM »
Why don't you ramp up slowly? Buy a fancy watch, see if it makes you feel better.  If it doesn't you haven't lost that much.  If you buy a car or a house and regret it you will have a much more difficult time recovering.

 Like I said, I'm a watch person, which watch are you considering?  PM me if you want some advice and don't want it in this public forum.

I was considering the Yachtmaster II as the terminal watch purchase.  I have a Michael Kors now and want my next watch to be an automatic, possibly one step above Bulova.  I'm probably going to buy my next watch to coincide with my next promotion.

There is one other luxury I want that can get real expensive, real quick.  WWE Tickets.  As a military member I get free general admission tickets to any event other than WrestleMania.  One of our vacations next year is going to WrestleMania in New Orleans.  Tickets start in the hundreds and go to the thousands.  While I will be getting the relatively affordable tickets as I can not justify much more than $250 x 2 for this, I wonder who in the hell is buying all those VIP travel packages and floor seats.  I know pro wrestling is considered low brow entertainment but still you wouldn't think the middle of the Venn Diagram of people who like WWE and people who can afford thousands of dollars on tickets would be that substantial.  I've noticed the same insane pricing at UFC events.  It makes the $60 pay per view look gosh darn affordable by comparison.

tyort1

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #125 on: August 04, 2017, 04:50:43 PM »
Why don't you ramp up slowly? Buy a fancy watch, see if it makes you feel better.  If it doesn't you haven't lost that much.  If you buy a car or a house and regret it you will have a much more difficult time recovering.

 Like I said, I'm a watch person, which watch are you considering?  PM me if you want some advice and don't want it in this public forum.

I was considering the Yachtmaster II as the terminal watch purchase.  I have a Michael Kors now and want my next watch to be an automatic, possibly one step above Bulova.  I'm probably going to buy my next watch to coincide with my next promotion.

There is one other luxury I want that can get real expensive, real quick.  WWE Tickets.  As a military member I get free general admission tickets to any event other than WrestleMania.  One of our vacations next year is going to WrestleMania in New Orleans.  Tickets start in the hundreds and go to the thousands.  While I will be getting the relatively affordable tickets as I can not justify much more than $250 x 2 for this, I wonder who in the hell is buying all those VIP travel packages and floor seats.  I know pro wrestling is considered low brow entertainment but still you wouldn't think the middle of the Venn Diagram of people who like WWE and people who can afford thousands of dollars on tickets would be that substantial.  I've noticed the same insane pricing at UFC events.  It makes the $60 pay per view look gosh darn affordable by comparison.

This is why lifestyle inflation is unlimited and you can end up broke no matter how much money you make.
Frugalite in training.

starguru

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #126 on: August 04, 2017, 05:45:28 PM »


I was considering the Yachtmaster II as the terminal watch purchase.  I have a Michael Kors now and want my next watch to be an automatic, possibly one step above Bulova.  I'm probably going to buy my next watch to coincide with my next promotion.



Can I ask why you are considering a Yachtmaster and a Rolex in general?  Do you want the watch for people to notice or as a subtle luxury you can appreciate on your own?





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RFAAOATB

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #127 on: August 04, 2017, 11:21:02 PM »

Can I ask why you are considering a Yachtmaster and a Rolex in general?  Do you want the watch for people to notice or as a subtle luxury you can appreciate on your own?


A little of both.  I can be a brand whore about some things.  As for why the Yachtmaster? It pops in a way that other watches don't.  It is likely when the time comes I may prefer to have a Day Date instead as a more subtle and historical choice.

SavinMaven

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2017, 05:56:23 AM »
I have some face punches for you.   They are meant to be thought-provoking.
Why two luxury vehicles?   What will they give you that you are lacking?   How will they give you that?   CAN they actually give you want you are lacking?  Or will it require something else that's fancy, then another, and another?

I think you're frustrated and unhappy.   I don't believe what you're prescribing for yourself will make you happy.   
I don't know what you need, but a $30,000 rolex is not the key to happiness in life.

Swordguy hit the nail on the head.

You are restless, and dissatisfied, and searching. Something is missing, and you are trying to fill that hole with money. But the hole is caused by the lack of something else, because you don't lack money. So you can throw millions into that hole in your soul, and it will still not be filled, because that's not why it's there in the first place.

Try a visit or two to a life coach. Learn to meditate. Take a silent retreat weekend. Or all 3.

Listen to the voice inside that is telling you that you are not enough. That your life is not enough. And learn to quiet it, or figure out how to satisfy it. 

THEN, decide what spending makes sense for you, and what doesn't. But don't medicate a proverbial broken leg with an appendectomy.

starguru

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #129 on: August 05, 2017, 07:04:56 AM »

Can I ask why you are considering a Yachtmaster and a Rolex in general?  Do you want the watch for people to notice or as a subtle luxury you can appreciate on your own?


A little of both.  I can be a brand whore about some things.  As for why the Yachtmaster? It pops in a way that other watches don't.  It is likely when the time comes I may prefer to have a Day Date instead as a more subtle and historical choice.

Would you buy this watch for you or to impress others?   My sense of how people react when they see an expensive watch is one of 4 ways:

1.  Most people don't care, they shrug their shoulders and move on.
2.  Some people would be mildly impressed.
3.  Some people would smirk, think it's a fake, or think you are overcompensating for something.
4.  People who like watches would be interested in your watch.

The people in category 4 would respect Rolex, but there are other brands out there that people who like watches would actually be impressed by.  Honestly I see about 10 Rolexes a day (100 if Im in Florida).  I personally would really be impressed by someone wearing a Patek Phillipe, AP, VC, JLC, or Omega Moonwatch more than  a Rolex. 

However, if it must be Rolex, the Day Dates are pretty sweet.  Also, the new ceramic Daytonas seem to be the hotness.  But the first rule of watches is buy what you like.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 07:39:06 AM by starguru »

Papa bear

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #130 on: August 05, 2017, 08:03:07 AM »
Why don't you ramp up slowly? Buy a fancy watch, see if it makes you feel better.  If it doesn't you haven't lost that much.  If you buy a car or a house and regret it you will have a much more difficult time recovering.

 Like I said, I'm a watch person, which watch are you considering?  PM me if you want some advice and don't want it in this public forum.

I was considering the Yachtmaster II as the terminal watch purchase.  I have a Michael Kors now and want my next watch to be an automatic, possibly one step above Bulova.  I'm probably going to buy my next watch to coincide with my next promotion.

There is one other luxury I want that can get real expensive, real quick.  WWE Tickets.  As a military member I get free general admission tickets to any event other than WrestleMania.  One of our vacations next year is going to WrestleMania in New Orleans.  Tickets start in the hundreds and go to the thousands.  While I will be getting the relatively affordable tickets as I can not justify much more than $250 x 2 for this, I wonder who in the hell is buying all those VIP travel packages and floor seats.  I know pro wrestling is considered low brow entertainment but still you wouldn't think the middle of the Venn Diagram of people who like WWE and people who can afford thousands of dollars on tickets would be that substantial.  I've noticed the same insane pricing at UFC events.  It makes the $60 pay per view look gosh darn affordable by comparison.

Why don't you start networking with event organizers and try to be a seat filler?  I've done some WWE events when they need people to be seat fillers for TV.  It's free, and you get right down in the front.  I don't watch WWE, but those events were a blast going with some buddies.  Great people watching.


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Khaetra

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #131 on: August 05, 2017, 10:04:33 AM »

Swordguy hit the nail on the head.

You are restless, and dissatisfied, and searching. Something is missing, and you are trying to fill that hole with money. But the hole is caused by the lack of something else, because you don't lack money. So you can throw millions into that hole in your soul, and it will still not be filled, because that's not why it's there in the first place.

Try a visit or two to a life coach. Learn to meditate. Take a silent retreat weekend. Or all 3.

Listen to the voice inside that is telling you that you are not enough. That your life is not enough. And learn to quiet it, or figure out how to satisfy it. 

THEN, decide what spending makes sense for you, and what doesn't. But don't medicate a proverbial broken leg with an appendectomy.

+1.  Throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it.  You'll have all the 'stuff', but still be a miserable person if you don't identify why you are unhappy in the first place.  I would work on why you are unhappy and fix that first.  Perhaps then you'll realize you really don't need/want that Rolex and all the trappings that go with it.

tyort1

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #132 on: August 05, 2017, 10:56:39 AM »
Or you could be like me and learn it the hard way.  I had all that stuff, and I was still unhappy.  Even more unhappy, actually.  Because I had all the things that I thought would make me happy, and they didn't.  Then I was like "Shit, what do I do now?".  Luckily I stumbled across MMM pretty soon after that.
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cchrissyy

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #133 on: August 05, 2017, 01:48:36 PM »
posting to follow... this thread is packed with good advice and perspective

lifejoy

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2017, 08:21:23 AM »
I got my husband a Rodina automatic and it gets MANY compliments despite the fact that it's an automatic that cost me around $100. Joy!

I've considered getting him a Rado automatic (I like the look) but it just seems so pretentious to me. I prefer getting him tasteful affordable watches. Shrug.

The more I read this thread the more I kind of get where you're coming from, OP. I have used books to help me feel better about these things:

- your money or your life
- status anxiety
- the overworked american
- the overspent American

Read about Veblen goods and the Diderot effect.

I'd link all of this but I'm a new mom so I'm busy :)

lifejoy

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #135 on: August 07, 2017, 08:22:56 AM »
Oh! And look up: utility and diminishing returns. Hedonic adaptation. Quotes from Walden/Thoreau.

Laura33

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #136 on: August 07, 2017, 09:41:27 AM »
I got my husband a Rodina automatic and it gets MANY compliments despite the fact that it's an automatic that cost me around $100. Joy!

@OP:  My DH has a watch similar to this one (though he didn't pay near this listed price): https://www.artfulhome.com/product/Silver-Copper-Mens-Watch/Full-Moon-Copper-Wave/35521?refid=34644&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIubPf77fF1QIV3UsNCh1jwQ9sEAQYBCABEgK8WfD_BwE.  He gets sort of a ridiculous number of compliments on it, including from people who own (or could own) a Rolex.  He likes watches, and he periodically toys with the idea of a fancy one.  But every time he goes looking, he has to go up to the Patek Philippe range before he sees anything he likes even as much as what he has now -- and then he thinks why pay 100x for something that he likes only marginally more?

Pay attention to what Starguru said.  I think you have an image in your head about how "successful" people live, and you feel like if you can hit that image, then people will respect you and see you as worthy.  But (a) the image is not accurate, and (b) most people won't react the way you want them to anyway.  People worth knowing -- at all income levels -- respect confidence and authenticity more than trappings.
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ZiziPB

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #137 on: August 07, 2017, 01:41:32 PM »



SeaEhm

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #138 on: August 08, 2017, 01:44:34 PM »
Why is it that people think posting an article with billionaires who have inexpensive items will change people's minds?  (Regarding the article where a few extremely wealthy people wear inexpensive watches - Do you know for a fact that it is their only watch? Even so, one of those guys owns a yacht that costs an easy seven figures a year just to maintain)

Person: I want this house! [points to $800k]
Other: Warren Buffet lives in a $750k house.


Person:  I want to go to college.
Other: Bill Gates didn't finish college.

Person:  I want this cotton shirt from Walmart.
Other:  The world's richest cavemen never even heard of cotton.
Just here to feel guilty about my purchases which are often irrational, wants, and in an atypical budget.

SeaEhm

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #139 on: August 08, 2017, 01:52:31 PM »
@OP - are you on social media by chance?  Seems like you are getting sucked into this my-life-is-amazing fraud that social media is.

Again, reread my post on page 1.  You are chasing these items to fill some insecurity or void.   You are in your mid 30s.  Keep searching for that thing that will make you more whole.  It may be that house or that watch or that car.  It may only be the dinners! It may be nice dinners once a week?

My advice is to really think about what it will be in order to save you money from buying all of them only to find out that one or two of them did nothing to fill that void.

And I am not judging because in my closet there is a small collection of purses that could cover the cost (and more) of a his and her set of that watch that you posted that you truly want.

Just here to feel guilty about my purchases which are often irrational, wants, and in an atypical budget.

Feivel2000

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #140 on: August 08, 2017, 01:58:17 PM »


Why is it that people think posting an article with billionaires who have inexpensive items will change people's minds?

Because it's important to realize and keep reminded, that you don't get rich by spending money on stuff "the rich people buy".


JLee

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #141 on: August 08, 2017, 02:34:02 PM »
Why is it that people think posting an article with billionaires who have inexpensive items will change people's minds?  (Regarding the article where a few extremely wealthy people wear inexpensive watches - Do you know for a fact that it is their only watch? Even so, one of those guys owns a yacht that costs an easy seven figures a year just to maintain)

Person: I want this house! [points to $800k]
Other: Warren Buffet lives in a $750k house.

Person:  I want to go to college.
Other: Bill Gates didn't finish college.

Person:  I want this cotton shirt from Walmart.
Other:  The world's richest cavemen never even heard of cotton.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind.  What I do offer is perspective.  If a $100,000 watch was that much better than a $100 watch, you'd think someone who could easily drop $100k on a watch would wear it all the time.

You know what?

It doesn't matter.

In this case, we have someone who wants to feel rich by buying/owning expensive shit.  There's always going to be somebody with more money and more expensive shit than you can afford, and that will never end - unless you're literally the most wealthy person on earth. There's always someone with a more inflated lifestyle, someone with more money to burn, more status made public.

Meanwhile, there are literal billionaires who are quite content by owning ordinary stuff. Because the stuff isn't generally the real issue - it's the approval/jealousy of your peers that most people are buying.

Ultimately, they're chasing moving goalposts and will never be satisfied.

SeaEhm

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #142 on: August 08, 2017, 02:44:17 PM »
Why is it that people think posting an article with billionaires who have inexpensive items will change people's minds?  (Regarding the article where a few extremely wealthy people wear inexpensive watches - Do you know for a fact that it is their only watch? Even so, one of those guys owns a yacht that costs an easy seven figures a year just to maintain)

Person: I want this house! [points to $800k]
Other: Warren Buffet lives in a $750k house.

Person:  I want to go to college.
Other: Bill Gates didn't finish college.

Person:  I want this cotton shirt from Walmart.
Other:  The world's richest cavemen never even heard of cotton.

In this case, we have someone who wants to feel rich by buying/owning expensive shit.  There's always going to be somebody with more money and more expensive shit than you can afford, and that will never end - unless you're literally the most wealthy person on earth. There's always someone with a more inflated lifestyle, someone with more money to burn, more status made public.

Meanwhile, there are literal billionaires who are quite content by owning ordinary stuff. Because the stuff isn't generally the real issue - it's the approval/jealousy of your peers that most people are buying.

Ultimately, they're chasing moving goalposts and will never be satisfied.

I don't disagree with anything that you said. 

I still think that article is meh
Just here to feel guilty about my purchases which are often irrational, wants, and in an atypical budget.

RFAAOATB

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #143 on: August 08, 2017, 10:21:29 PM »
@OP - are you on social media by chance?  Seems like you are getting sucked into this my-life-is-amazing fraud that social media is.


Not as much as the youth are portrayed to be.  Some amazing influencers, sports stars, and fitness inspiration.  Mostly friends and family.  I've noticed the real people are doing a lot more complaining about stuff than posting about how awesome their life is.  Most of my posts are either what I'm eating or what I did in the gym.

If I was twice as ripped and half as fat, it would almost all be shirtless selfies.

DarkandStormy

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2017, 06:49:29 AM »
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kaypinkhardhat

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2017, 07:44:07 AM »
OP, here is a very very anecdotal (true) story of two families. (Sorry it is a long one).

Family 1 (my dear BIL and SIL)- Mid 30s.
They live the life you describe. They moved across the country to "make the big bucks" in Oil and Gas. As an engineer and teacher, this was pretty easy for them to do. SIL has some minor family money, but I don't think they are getting too much help. Bought one house, and when my SIL finished her schooling, sold it, and started building a new build McMansion (~3000 sqft?). Also bought a rental property in there, since this a MCOL area comparative to the salaries, but complain all the time about how annoying landlording is.  Both love brand names, and sparkly things, and BIL received a lovely watch for his wedding gift. SIL's engagement ring was ridiculous. They at one point had a Louis Vuitton cat carrier (for their "baby"). They both LOVE cars. They have been selling and "buying" used luxury cars, always at "such a good price." At one point they owned a Nissan GTR, a Escalade with all the fixings, and a FRIGGIN LAMBORGHINI. They spend their weekends hanging out with other fancy car enthusiasts, most who are older, and have way more money than my SIL and BIL. They spend their money on improvements on their house....for their cars. (ie putting in a fancy new floor in their garage). They LOVE starbucks and energy drinks, and neither one of them cooks. They have ~6 TVs in their house (including one in the bathroom), and definitely have cable. Oh and throw in the fact that they had two kids within 2 years. Sounds nice right?

Family 2: DH and I - late 20s
We also moved slightly across the country to find jobs, as two engineers this wasn't hard to do. We picked a VHCOL due to the fact that I had family in the area. We rented a tiny little condo for a few years as DH finished school, worked our butts off for 3 years between our jobs and side hustles (and a little help from family) to be able to afford a down payment on a TINY 650 sqft house (+Basement). After "buying" a normal car (and face punching ourselves since it wasn't used and we were financing it), we sold it, and bought a used Honda Fit. We also rent out our basement of our TINY HOUSE. We don't care at all about brand names. Fanciest thing I own is my engagement ring (which wasn't mustachian, but I didn't have a say in that). We buy most of our things on Kijiji when needed (including our cat carriers, which are NOT Louis Vuitton), and we love thrift store shopping. Our hobbies include hanging out with creative types (aka starving artists) or other mustachian engineers. We got rid of cable 3 years ago, and now we can't stand watching TV with all the commercials (we still spend way too much time on netflix/youtube). We had to get a 2nd car recently for work, and we got a old Prius (that was completely covered by the increase in salary due to the work change).  We travel quite a bit, and spend similar to you on restaurants and food. Sounds like the life that you can afford right now. (Note our income is ball park about the same as you).

I'm not saying one life is "better than the other" but unfortunately that is exactly what society does. They look at SIL/BIL and they see the luxury and how they are "more successful" than DH and I. SIL has actually teased us over our choice in cars. SIL/BIL also look down on people who aren't living the same way they are. I personally have been concerned when my MIL comes to visit me after visiting SIL and BIL. I'm almost embarrassed by our tiny house and second hand stuff. (Even though this is my own insecurity, MIL and FIL are very middle class..worked in pension jobs until the retired, have a simple house etc.)

Here is the kicker. DH and I assume that we are on track to match income with SIL and BIL. IE: 5 years ago, they were making approximately what we make now. So where is our Lamborghini?

What all of the above doesn't describe is what is going on behind the scenes. SIL and BIL recently went through some pretty serious marriage stuff after their 2nd child. I am making assumptions here, but it seemed like part of the break down was the fact that BIL only took 2 weeks off after the baby was born and immediately returned to work because of financial reasons, leaving SIL at home with 2 babies, and no family support. Too bad the Lambo couldn't rock a crib too? SIL and BIL have also admitted that they will not be moving back closer to family because "they have gotten accustomed to a lifestyle" and the salaries back home can't keep up. As the kids get older flying back home will become "too expensive" with a family of 4. FIL doesn't fly, so he won't be seeing much of his grand children. As the main bread winner, BIL is continuing to work extreme hours to support his family, and drinks multiple energy drinks a day to "get by". They are smart people and I'm sure they are saving 10-15% for retirement, but if he ever lost his job the situation would be dire (which is risky in a declining industry). And BIL is pretty much set that he will work until his late 60s.  Oh and that Louis Vuitton cat carrier??  Well after they decided their house was now too nice for a cat, and got rid of the cat. So much for their precious baby.

Meanwhile over in in Mustache land, DH and I are actively looking for work back home. We realize that we will take a pay cut, be we can afford to, since we are living on ~40% of our incomes right now. Even with the pay cut, moving from a VHCOL to a MCOL and selling our now almost worth double (!!) tiny house, we will be very close to FI. We are planning for kids, and future options include: part time work for either 1 parent or both, getting some rental properties for passive income (and no more 9-5s!!), a nomadic lifestyle for the first few years with kids, the options are endless!  We will be living nearish to my inlaws, and my siblings, and a weekend trip away from my parents and our entire extended families. Also the QOL back home is infinitely better than where we or SIL/BIL live. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it. Most importantly, we are planning a financially secure future where if one of us loses a job it is "no big deal". We also hope to mostly FIRE by 42.

So if I take these 2 families and flash forward ~12 years. BIL is returning from travelling for work, for the first time in 2 weeks, his health isn't great as he has no time for exercise or diet, and his stress levels are through the roof because he has heard rumblings of layoffs.  BIL hasn't received a raise in years, and the payments of the lambo became too high in the last work reduction cycle, so that is just a fleeting memory of "better days". It was an upside down car loan, but they had to sell it anyway to pay for private school for the kids.  SIL is at home (summer holidays), and the two kids (now 14 and 12) are shipped off to a fancy summer camp, probably horse back riding. SIL is miserable in a big empty house full of all the latest toys and gadgets.  BIL returns home to a miserable wife, and they have the same argument about stress/work/money that they always have. They know they will never get the value of their house back with the declining economy in their area. Things are tense. They try to smooth things over with a fancy date night, and BIL buys SIL a new shiny object as an apology. Tomorrow he gets up and leaves for his work at 7, and he only comes home at 7pm, and they both sit in silence watching TV in separate rooms. 

Meanwhile, DH and I will be sitting on a beach, with our ~11 year old, 8 year old and 6 year old (oh dear lord that is terrifying). We have just visited my parents, and spent the afternoon picking berries at my cousin's farm. We are spending the month travelling around the area, camping (or with a mini tent trailer), biking from place to place.  We quickly check our email to make sure all of our renters are OK, and spend 10 minutes checking our investments (a monthly thing, we forgot to do it last week). I check my linked in account casually, and see that I have a contract offer for the fall, but I'm not sure I want to take it. I'll think about that later.  Our "work" is done for the day. We drop our 11 year old off down the beach as she has started being a "mother's helper" for another family, and already talks about "saving for college". The evening will probably be a bonfire or board games. Tomorrow we will wake up, make some pancakes for everyone, and leave the kids with Grandma and Grandpa while we go on a quick bike ride. On our bike ride we talk about the projects we need to do for MIL and FIL, as their health isn't great, but we are around to help, and we also talk about our next rental property we want to get, we also start planning a big international trip the family will take in a few years! In the afternoon, we may go down to the OTHER family farm to visit the cows, and ride on my cousin's horses and/or ATVs for a treat, but we may just relax, because we have ALL the time in the world!


This very very long rant is basically all to say: think about where you see yourself in 15 years. What is truly important to you? And what are you willing to sacrifice for your luxury items. Your life is going to change very shortly with the new baby, and you may find your desire for your fancy watch disappears!

Hopefully you can find happiness in your current life, and indulge in a few luxuries along the way that doesn't derail your future happiness :).




SeaEhm

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #146 on: August 09, 2017, 08:32:39 AM »
@OP - are you on social media by chance?  Seems like you are getting sucked into this my-life-is-amazing fraud that social media is.


Not as much as the youth are portrayed to be.  Some amazing influencers, sports stars, and fitness inspiration.  Mostly friends and family.  I've noticed the real people are doing a lot more complaining about stuff than posting about how awesome their life is.  Most of my posts are either what I'm eating or what I did in the gym.

If I was twice as ripped and half as fat, it would almost all be shirtless selfies.

Find the void in your life and see what fills it.  Posting selfies of ripped abs will not fulfill that void. 

Having ripped abs and staring at yourself is different though and will fulfill a lot of ego though.

Find the thing that if no one else in the world knew about, it would still make you happy.  Those items help fill the void. 


Just here to feel guilty about my purchases which are often irrational, wants, and in an atypical budget.

With This Herring

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #147 on: August 09, 2017, 08:44:21 AM »
*snip*
As the main bread winner, BIL is continuing to work extreme hours to support his family, and drinks multiple energy drinks a day to "get by". They are smart people and I'm sure they are saving 10-15% for retirement, but if he ever lost his job the situation would be dire (which is risky in a declining industry).
*snip*

It may not be safe to assume that they are saving...
You picture BIL still working hard in a couple decades, but with those habits he might be dead by then.  Please try to get SIL and BIL to both get life insurance.  What a sad and scary situation.
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kaypinkhardhat

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #148 on: August 09, 2017, 11:03:16 AM »
@WithThisHerring..the first version of this post was much bleaker in the outcome. Couldn't bare to type it out though. Yes, it is terrifying. DH's family has some major health issues in their family, which DH is painfully aware of and trying to lead a stress free/healthy life. But we don't have a Lambo, so we are clearly missing out.

I do know they are investing but not how much they are saving,  a few Christmas's ago they accidentally missed their flight (Read 20:00 as 10pm...I laughed for DAYS about this.) Ended up only having to pay a few $100 extra to re-book (but got an extra night with MIL and FIL). You would have thought it was the end of the world. BIL started obsessively checking his stocks to see if he "made the money back". Tears were shed by SIL...so much stress!!! Meanwhile, a few months later I had a booking issue with a flight coming back from visiting my parents in Florida (aka the 3rd party company had cancelled my booking and the cancellation never came through my email!) and was stranded in Florida an extra day. Yes, slightly annoying to book late and pay a little more, but hey I got more time on the beach! No big deal!

We see them in a few weeks on the annual vacation, I'm always interested to see what the latest thing we are doing "wrong" vs their life. Last time was that we didn't own a keurig.

Going back to OPs post. Think about ways you can "have your cake and eat it too" for example instead of paying a bank to borrow "owning" a Lambo, DH and I calculated that he could go to one of those race track experience things every few months, drive a much better car at the speeds they were meant to be driven, for WAY LESS MONEY than actually owning a Lambo. And then he can enjoy the experience of driving (the reason to get a Lambo in the first place) without the negatives of maintenance/damage/storage etc. Oh and added side effect he won't look like an idiot driving a Lambo with a baby seat in the back.

Also also (sooo many opinions)...think about the future you want for your foster kid(s). Or the next generation. Sure DH and I could have a Escalade and a Keurig, but we actually want to try to help improve the earth's situation for our hypothetical children vs blowing all that fuel and waste. But what do I know, obviously oil and gas is the only possible future and we might as well use it all because it is relatively cheap!

Ugh.

Mel70

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Re: I want my lifestyle inflation.
« Reply #149 on: August 09, 2017, 11:26:22 AM »
PTF