Author Topic: Am I behind?  (Read 3873 times)

MrMasked

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Am I behind?
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:57:27 PM »
Hello all, long time reader first time poster. I have been rebalancing all my expenses and am a little worried I might be behind for my age!!! I am really trying to be FI by 40, and FIRE by 45!

Every month I have all of my expenses listed, however life happens. Medical bills from previous years are finally posted and need payment, something needs to be repaired, or the kids need new clothes etc. With the tight budget I have set, I end up dipping into savings to cover expenses. I do have loans and am trying to pay them off asap!

Where I am at:

Age 33 / married / 3 kids (6,2,1) / Akron Area

Income:                    $140K combined

Monthly Expense

House Payment:    $1200 @ 3.25% (value $250K owe $165K)
Daycare:                   $890
Car1:                   $600 @ 5% (owe $3800 trying to pay off early)
Car 2:                       $490 (family van, leased 2 years left)
Student Loan:           $425 @ 4.75 ($28K owed)
Kids Collage Fund:     $300 ($12K current balance)
Tithe:                   $100
Insurance:                 $150
2 Phones:                  $65
Cable:                       $40
Food:                        $750
Gas:                         $200
Heat:                        $50
Electric:                    $100
Water:                      $40

Accounts
401K:                       $135K (add 14% a year)
Savings:                   $10K
Taxable Investment   $67K   (add $3K a year)
Roth:                        $25K


So what do you think? Am I behind for my age, do I need to make a major change, or am I on track? None of me peers discuss their finance, so I am wondering if I am ahead/behind, or average?

Thanks!!!

fuzzy math

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 09:15:56 PM »
You're not behind, but you're not getting hugely ahead with all your vehicle payments. I recommend halting paying into your kid's college fund (Google the go curry cracker article about not investing in 529s), and stopping your taxable investments until:

1) your 5% vehicle loan is paid off (the interest here is higher than what you can expect to earn by investing). I'm assuming you have good credit since you have a lot of investments - 5% is a horrible rate. Did you just not shop around at all for auto loans?
2) you've ditched your van lease and bought (And fully paid off) a different van. Leases are horrible! You're not going to own anything in 2 years and you'll be in a position where you'real going to need money saved up or you'll end up financing again. You're better off just paying to get out of the lease


Metta

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 09:52:09 PM »
You get to define your own game and you are behind or ahead by your own rules.

However, if you want to compare yourself to others, I find the Stanley Wealth Equation calculation to be a fun way to compare myself. It is from the book The Millionaire Next Door and it produces one of three results:

Under-Accumulator of Wealth (UAW)
Average Accumulator of Wealth (AAW)
Prodigious Accumulator of Wealth (PAW)

Here is Hugh Chou's calculator so that you can check yourself: http://www.hughcalc.org/wealth.cgi
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 09:55:15 PM by Metta »

MDM

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 10:17:14 PM »
See below for some quick thoughts based on numbers in the OP and some guesswork.  In short, it appears you could handle a significant increase in retirement contributions.  But there may be some missing expenses...?

What do you think?

Paycheck frequency:AnnualAnnual
Paycheck ItemsEarner #1Earner #2Annual
Gross Salary/Wages
$80,000$60,000$140,000
401(k) / 403(b) / TSP / etc.$18,500$18,500$37,000
W-2 Box 1
$61,500$41,500$103,000
Subtractions for AGIAnnualAnnualAnnual
Traditional IRA$5,000$5,000$10,000
SL int. (approx.)$1,264
1040 AGI
$91,737
Other Specific Investment TypesAnnualAnnualAnnual
Roth IRA$500$500$1,000
529 plan/ other college$300$3,600
Payroll TaxesAnnualAnnualAnnual
Social Security$4,960$3,720$8,680
Medicare$1,160$870$2,030
Income Taxes
Federal tax$5472018, MFJ, std., 3 dep$547
Total income taxes$11,257$11,257
Monthly
Income before other expenses$6,429$77,143
Monthly Average ExpensesComments
Mortgage$1,190Input to Item. Ded.$14,286
Cable TV$40$480
Car Insurance$150$1,800
Car Maintenance, Registration, etc.$490$5,880
Charitable contributions$100Input to Item. Ded.$1,200
Childcare$890Input to Child Care credit$10,680
Electricity$100$1,200
Fuel/Public Transport$200$2,400
Gas/Oil for heating$50$600
Groceries$750$9,000
Miscellaneous$500$6,000
Phone (cell)$65$780
Water/Sewer$40$480
Non-mortgage total
$3,375$40,500
Loans
Student Loan$432$5,187
Car 1$643$7,711
Total Expense
$5,640$67,683
Total to invest$788$9,459
Summary:
"Gross" income$11,667$140,000
Income taxes$938$11,257
After-tax income$10,729$128,743
IRA+401k/403b/TSP/457$2,000$2,000$48,000
529/other$300$3,600
Living expenses$4,565$54,786
Non-mortgage loans$1,075$12,898
After-tax investable$788$9,459
Time to FI?:
Guess at time to FI12years
Safe Withdrawal Rate4.00%percent
Real return on tax-deferred investments5.00%percent
Real, after tax, return on taxable investments4.25%percent
Current Savings
Projected Savings at Retirement
Taxable$290,193
Tax-deferred (e.g. trad. IRA/401k)$748,105
Roth + HSA$15,917
Total projected stash$1,054,215
Projected Expenses in Retirement
Non-loan, non-work expenses$40,500
Annual non-tax retirement expense$40,500
Income taxes$594
Total$41,094
Total loan principal due at FI$34,257
Stash needed for retirement @4.0% SWR$1,061,601
Need $7,386 more.


Filing Status21=S, 2=MFJ, 3=HOH
# Dependents3
# Children <173
# Children <133
# Children for EIC3
Adult #1Adult #2
Age3333
Full-time student?00
AGI$91,737
Std. Deduct.$24,000
Act. Deduct.$24,000
Exemption$0
Taxable$67,737
1040 Tax$7,747
Dep. Care credit$1,200
Non-refund. CTC$6,000
Tax after n-r credit$547
Net Tax$547
Mtg. Int. (approx.)$5,3091000000
Charity$1,200
Item. Deduct.$6,509
VersionV11.04

Loans:Orig. Prin.Orig. LengthCurr. Prin.Yrs leftRate
Mortgage$165,00014.5$165,000143.25%
Student Loan$28,0006.25$28,00064.75%
Car 1$3,8000.5$3,8000.55.0%

Tuskalusa

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 11:48:16 PM »
No sure if you’re behind, but I think you could be closer to financial security if you got rid of all debt except your mortgage.  Also, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to keep funding 529s until all other non-mortgage debt is gone, and until you have a solid emergency fund.

Right now you have about $1500 going to debt/car lease and another $300 to 529s. I think a strategy for speeding up FI includes cutting that monthly $1800 outflow so that you can increase investments and emergency funds. Your kids are still young. There is time to strategize on ways to get them through college without a mountain of debt. For now, that money could be better used on your FI Goals.

The car lease should really go. There’s no financial benefit here. You’re better off with a used, well-running car that seats your family of 5 comfortably. A Toyota Camry or used Honda or Toyota SUV comes to mind. If you could sell your financed car, dump the lease, and get two economical used cars, you would free up cash. Then all that freed up cash can go to your student loan.

When the debt is gone, you then have a world of options. You can maximize your taxable investments and start accelerating to FI.

With a family of 5, I think you’re doing a good job on general expenses. Optimizing the debt is a great next step to accelerate your plans. :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 11:52:02 PM by Tuskalusa »

marty998

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 01:27:37 AM »
Others have already commented on the cars.

I will pick on cable. I almost think a red flashing warning should come up on new threads that are about to be posted here which says "have you cut cable? No? Ok go cut cable, then come back and repost your case study"


reeshau

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 06:06:23 AM »
To say the conclusion in a simple way:  you are on track for a traditional retirement at age 65.  You are behind if you expect to FIRE at 45.

To adjust to your goal, you will need to address both savings (income) and spending items, but particularly spending.  The magic happens at high rates of savings, where income is much more than expenses.  This compresses the time to reach sustainable savings, as long as the spending continues at the same moderate rate into retirement.

Laura33

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 09:10:14 AM »
The reason you feel like something always happens is because your idealized budget is incomplete.  You have nothing listed for clothes, or kid activities, or babysitting, or home/car maintenance, or medical copays/prescriptions, or vacations, or Home Depot runs, or Ikea visits, or rec league fees/gear, or hobbies, or going to a movie, or etc. etc. etc.  The fact that something doesn't occur every month doesn't mean you can ignore it in your monthly budget.

The first thing you need to do, if you are not doing it already, is to track your spending religiously.  You know what your fixed expenses are, and you can clamp down on them as much as you want, but all that miscellaneous unaccounted-for "other" is still going to jump up to bite you in the ass.  So watch it -- pay attention to the outflows for 6 mos. or a year, and that will give you the information you need to figure out how much, on average, you are spending on those various other things every month.  That will also give you the data you need to look at your numbers and say "I spent how much on THAT?"  Which IME is the best motivation of all.  If you are budgeting properly, there should be no surprises (well, short of the "hit by a bus and out of work for 6 months" variety). 

The reason this is important is because your time to FIRE depends entirely on your savings rate, and you can't know that until you know what you are actually spending.  See https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/.  You already have a few years' expenses saved, so you can knock that off these estimates to give you a better sense of whether you are on track.

Finally, echoing what MDM said:  why are you not maxing out your tax-advantaged accounts?  There is no reason on God's green earth to have $67K in taxable investments before you have maxed out your 401(k)s and tIRAs/Roths.

Ben Kurtz

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 09:58:51 AM »
The car payments are off the hook.

You haven't specified makes and models, but it sounds like you are buying way too much "car" for your family. You have a good six-figure income, but until you have a million dollars in net worth you should not own more than about $10,000 worth of car. It's not just the gas, insurance and maintenance -- it's also the monstrous depreciation you suffer day-in and day-out on cars you buy new.

The main blog has acres of posts about how important it is to minimize driving overall -- choosing housing location very carefully, biking to most destinations, etc. -- as well as buying sensible used cars for when you do need to drive. Not every family can or will choose to live the way Mr. Aldeney and his family live, but most American families have a huge amount of driving-related fat they can trim. Read all of those posts and reflect deeply on your own life. Then, at the very least, replace your entire nearly-new excessively expensive fleet of automotive hardware with a 7-9 year old used minivan you buy for cash and a 7-9 year old midsized sedan you buy for cash. No excuses. A lot of your feeling of being financially squeezed is downstream from your automotive situation.

And I'll second the comments made by Laura33: track your expenses carefully -- not this Mickey Mouse stuff you put at the top of the thread with no allocations for clothing, travel, movies / entertainment, diapers, toiletries or out-of-pocket medical. And max out your tax advantaged space -- fully fund your 401k at $18,500 per year and fully fund Roth IRAs for you and your spouse (you can fund an account for a non-working spouse as long as one spouse works). Once your car situation is sorted out, I would be in favor of 529 plan contributions, at least to the $4,000 per year level which earns you a deduction on your Ohio state income taxes.

I'll let up on the "face punching" for a moment. By average American standards you are doing reasonably well: six figure net worth, own your home with a good deal of equity against the mortgage, married with what sounds like a lovely young family, no high-interest credit card debt, not-unreasonable other debts. But that sneaking suspicion that you are not hitting it out of the park is correct. It appears as if you are severely overspending on automobiles, which will without doubt hold you back from your goal of financial independence in your 40s. The problem is that most of America severely overspends on automobiles, so it is not much good to compare yourselves to your neighbors and pat yourselves on the back for avoiding the temptation to buy a new BMW every three years. You need to be a lot most disciplined and analytic than that if you want to get ahead.

BrandNewPapa

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Re: Am I behind?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 10:31:36 AM »
I'll agree that you are on track for a traditional retirement.

If you want to retire by 45, you need to take the advice in this thread.

1. Ditch the college savings for now. You can start again later, but you need to put your family's security above any college plan. Use the extra $300/month to pay off your car loan.
2. Pay off that car loan. Once that loan is paid off, bulk up your savings a bit more. Then focus on maxing out retirement accounts.
3. Sell your lease or cancel. You can find someone to take over or buy your lease. Check out http://www.swapalease.com/ or http://www.leasetrader.com/
4. Work on your food budget. $750/month for a family of 5 seems a bit high. I would challenge you to get this down to $600/month. Make meal plans every week, avoid eating out, shop at Aldi's/Save-a-lot.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!