FI in 4 years? Help me check the (non-standard) numbers

[seattlecyclone]

We have toddlers rather than teenagers, which I'm sure helps quite a bit.

To be honest I kind of find grocery bargain hunting to be something of a fun game, so I've gotten better at it than I would necessarily expect an average person to be.

Here are some things we do to keep the spending as low as it is:
* Minimize waste. Every time you let food spoil you're literally throwing money away. Don't do this. Save leftover food and make a point of eating it before it goes bad. Don't buy the eight-pack of bell peppers at Costco if you're only going to use four of them in time. The per-unit prices aren't low enough to make this worthwhile.
* Buy stuff when it's on sale. Pay attention to what the typical price is for things you tend to buy the most. Write it down if it will help. When you notice something you like is being sold for significantly less than normal, that would be a good thing to buy and eat that week. The front page of the weekly ad for your local stores will often be a good source of information on what you should be eating that week. QFC specific tip: I find some of the best deals are in the advertised Friday/Saturday sales where you click a couple buttons in the app to add "coupons" to your account, only valid on Friday and Saturday. The prices are often the lowest you'll ever see in that store for those items, and they limit you to five of each. If it's something you tend to eat, now would be a good time to buy all five.
* Buy in bulk when it makes sense. Costco is great for many shelf-stable things like flour, sugar, rice, alcohol, and canned beans and tomatoes. Some other products I've noticed have better prices at Costco than grocery store regular prices, but the normal stores run sales often enough that you can probably do better just stocking up when the sales come around. I do most of our shopping at QFC, supplementing with a Costco run once every couple months to restock our pantry with stuff that is actually always cheaper there.
* Reuse your spice jars. Those little pre-filled jars of spices are the worst ripoff in the entire grocery store. If your store doesn't have a section where you can buy bulk spices (where you scoop however much you actually want from a big canister into a baggie to be weighed at checkout), find one that does. At the QFC in my neighborhood there's often a literal ten-fold difference in the price of spices between the bulk section and the pre-filled jar section.
* Don't eat much meat. I'm not a vegetarian, but the rest of my family is, so most all of our cooking is vegetarian in nature. This saves a bundle. You don't even need to go full vegetarian to make a difference. Going meatless one day a week can help, or switching to lower-meat dishes. For example, a stir-fry with meat or pasta with meat sauce can use less than when you serve whole pieces of steak or chicken.
* Consider signing up for a CSA from a local farm. We've done this for the past few years. In the summer and fall months we get basically as much produce as we can eat, for something like $25 per week.

My grocery spending is the result of years of practice. If you're serious about reducing yours, it will take time. Pick off one of these tips each time you go to the store and see if you can optimize in that area. Pretty soon it will become second nature.

[Gin1984]

Thanks everyone for thoughtful replies!

I'll address follow up questions below.

You spend $1300 a month on personal enrichment classes?  Seriously?    What for?    I ask that in all honesty.   ...  You do realize that entire families live on less than you are spending on classes?   It's ok if you want to do it, I just want to recalibrate you to make sure you understand it's not even vaguely normal and may well give your kids a very warped idea of how life will be like once they are out of your home.  Half the above would still be an amazing amount and would teach your kids to prioritize limited resources if they have to cut back a bit on classes.

Get the above items under control and you could probably quit today.  We're talking at least $42,000 in annual spending that could easily be cut.

I do realize the classes budget we have is higher than many people's total monthly budget. My kids know this (at least the older ones do, the young one can't count this high yet :) )

The breakdown is as follows:

• The biggest chunk is a private guitar teacher. He charges 60/hr and three of us take lessons so it's 180/week or ~800/month. I wouldn't have done it if I didn't have the money for it but it does provide a lot of progress compared to self-study and a much better way to spend the time than watching Netflix.
• Various math/physics/chem enrichment classes for the older kids. This has been a great way to get their brains developed and learn to solve non-standard problems. Somehow I find public school's science/math curriculum lacking (and our school is highly rated). This is about 250/month for the two of them all told
• Swim instruction for the little one. 45/lesson once a week comes out to ~200/month. I see knowing how to swim as a safety thing plus swimming is a great sport when he's older.
• The wife takes some classes, we pay for ski passes on our local resort and some other smaller stuff rounds up the list

Again, I realize most of it is completely optional and can be cut. I do want to have a portion of my day that is fun hence the guitar; and I do want the kids to develop hence the math/science/swim classes.

Your situation probably isn’t as unique as you think it is. There are just a lot of high earners who don’t post case studies. Our net income is higher than yours. Our expenses are WAY lower than yours. Therefore, no need for a case study as it would make a pretty boring one.

Well, as is pointed out elsewhere my friends don't tend to discuss finances openly. So if I'm boring it's good - I just need to find a model to follow; hopefully this post will give me pointers.

In any case, the issue isn’t in your computations or in your savings — you have done very well with savings. The issue is mainly in your spending. I’m sorry, but $2000 on food and supplies is ridiculous. Our family of five adults and one child spends approx. $800 on food. Have you broken down your grocery bills by line item and analyzed which things are truly necessary and which are just “wants”? And for the necessary things, is there a way to get it for cheaper? Maybe shop at a cheaper grocery store? Buy the store brand instead of the name brand?

I agree this is a first place to save. Most of the shopping is done at Costco with occasional trips to QFC for forgotten milk. Is it better to reduce the budget gradually or go whole hog and set a 800 goal straight away?

Your clothing bill is also quite high. Shop at thrift stores, and have your 16 year old start purchasing their own clothes. If they need money, they can get a part-time job.

Well, the small one is growing fast and so some of it is replenishing his wardrobe. The other part is replacing worn out items (shoes mostly). While I realize thrift stores will be cheaper I would prefer not to go there - what's the point of being a high earner if I can't buy new clothing occasionally?

You do need to clarify whether your Taxable account is actually in savings, or whether that was a typo.

My bad on phrasing choice. It's a taxable brokerage account invested in a mix of stocks.

Are you following IRS rules for 401k? Its the same limit for both pretax and roth 401k. $19k total for each person between all accounts. If you're asking whether you should be doing a roth or not, I think you'd see more benefit from a traditional 401k because it would reduce your taxes and you are at the highest earning point of your life.

I've used my annual bonus to fully fund the $19k pretax contribution to a traditional 401k, plus get employer match. The wife sends 50% of her paycheck to 401k so she's going to deposit ~13k in hers. I suggested setting her contribution ratio to 100% but she wants to see some money in the bank (easier psychologically).

The contributions to Roth are done via backdoor conversion - I deposit post tax money and it gets reclassified as Roth.

Also, the one glaring thing I see here that no one has already addressed is that your wife is bringing in $500 a month, and yet you're paying $1500 a month in child care for the 4 yr old. Is this is a full time preschool program that you're specifically sending the kiddo to for the purposes of preschool or childcare that's costing you $1000 a month more than your wife makes? Your financial situation should improve vastly once this last kiddo goes off to public school. I'm assuming that he/she will start Kindergarten next August? That's another $18k removed from your annual spending.

First, as I mentioned the pretax paycheck of my wife is higher, but half is going to 401k. I listed only the "take home" portion.

Even with the young one at preschool and the wife working a couple of days a week, there's not that much free time between driving the kids to classes, household chores etc. Also, he's getting great preparation for school there education-wise and social skills-wise. Not sure I could've given him that at home.

When he starts kindergarten (next year presumably), the bill will drop but we will need after-school care I guess. So say 500/month instead of 1500? I'm sure with my experience with older kids there will be classes etc that will just replace the makeup of this budget, but not wipe it out completely :)

Others have tackled some of the bigger issues.  On the "fully funded" college funds, is it your goal to pay for all of your kid's college?  It would seem $130k won't be sufficient to do that if they want to go to a private school.  With your income and assets, the kids are unlikely to get any financial aid.  I think with your assets outside of retirement accounts, even if you had zero income your kids would be unlikely to get any financial aid.  With your savings, you could easily pay for college out of cash flow, but the added expense is something to consider if your plan is to cover 100% of education.

I was aiming for financing a public school. I also would prefer to not have them accumulate student debt as I can affort that. My take is that I'm responsible to educate them through to bachelor's degree and they are on their own from that point. If they get admitted into a place that requires 60k/year I will probably think twice before sending them to it - not sure it's worth it in comparison to UW in Seattle which charges $12k/year.

Preschool is fine. Before your wife's salary was disclosed, it just wasn't obvious whether anyone had looked to see if it was a wash financially.

Private college is rarely a great financial decision. If your kid wants to go to Harvard to study political science and become a lobbyist, it's a great place to make connections with rich people. But if your kid wants to be successful, a state school with a carefully chosen major and great grades will get them far enough to have success beyond what they could ever imagine.

Do your older 2 kids enjoy guitar? They are old enough to be taking band, orchestra or guitar lessons at school. They don't have to love or do the same instrument as you if it isn't their thing. Music classes at school are great because they're free, you don't have to listen to them practice as much, and they're exposed to a huge variety of musical options.

Also RE: public school and science / math. Your kids can join science, robotics, math club or whatever else is offered for free. It will look much better on a college application too. See if their grades and progress make them eligible for advanced, honors or AP courses. That will provide more intellectual stimulation than other science enrichments.

Definitely encourage your wife to put 100% of her salary in a 401k. You don't have any more options to find extra tax deferred space. is she earning any matching into her retirement? If she is keen on working after you quit, her salary alone will provide a huge buffer towards your annual spending. If you're planning on doing any open source work, I bet you'll find options for meaningful paid part time gigs or work in the future. You have many options with where you are...

That is not a true statement, paying full price for private college is rarely a good decision but most students do not pay full price.

[BicycleB]

even though she seems to agree with my request to reduce spending; I still constantly see shopping trips popping up in Mint. :( Ideas on how to convince her without destroying the marriage welcome.

I think there were 50 ideas linked or at least referred to upthread. Have you read them?

Here's the link, just in case: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

Which of them could be applied in your case?
How would you apply them?
Which three would your wife like the best?
Can you do those three to start the ball rolling?

By the way, since you have been calculating in your head at Costco, you have started taking action on the grocery issue. Congratulations! There's a ways to go, but keep going and you'll keep improving. Here's a link to an old but superbly thorough discussion on the grocery topic:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/the-ultimate-mustachian-food-guide/

Here's a thread with further discussion on the spouse aspect. The second post in that thread has links to four previous threads re spouses. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/how-do-you-get-your-spouse-on-board/

Can you find at least one useful suggestion in each of those "four previous threads"?
Which suggestions will you implement?

Here's further food for thought from another blog; comes from the spouse's viewpoint.
https://www.madfientist.com/spouse-early-retirement//

[GoCubsGo]

Just chiming in on a couple things after reading all the posts:

- First off, you're killing it in the income department and have a paid off home and seem to actually enjoy the things you do spend money on.  You don't have a ton of heavy lifting to do in the spending department (I would argue very little based on your income).  You sound like you are giving your children a great life!
- I sympathize with the food situation with teenagers in the house.  I've tracked my grocery budget for 5 years and it went up significantly once the kids hit teenage years (and they both play 2 sports). Work to get it down, but by the time your'e done your older kids will be out of the house.
- You seem to have quite a few things to do in retirement including things that will keep your mind and skills sharp in the event you'd want to return to work.  Again- you are way ahead of the curve.
- My biggest red flag is that your wife is concerned about you quitting.  If you quit and she starts to resent you or bug you to go back to work you will have a much bigger problem than the 4% rule on a $3 million nest egg. Seriously, get her on board with the plan. That would be the MAIN thing I'd work on in the next few years.

[BicycleB]

Yeah, your wife is key. "You don't want to quit if you're so good at your job do you" (sorry, not exact words) sounds a lot like "I just assumed you would keep earning more money forever, if you quit you'll interrupt my happy life".

To be fair, if you've steadily earned increasing money until now and rarely or never discussed quitting, and you've been happy with each other and your lives (especially each other), this would be a big shift for her - one she can't control but is likely to impact her negatively. If she hasn't studied the numbers in detail (and why would she), it sounds risky from her view, and presumably brings risk to her without benefit. After all, you not working is good for you, but what does she get?? At best, someone underfoot when previously she was queen of a rich and happy domain!  :)

Perhaps more talking it through and giving her time to adjust will make a difference. In any case, she's the biggest key variable.

How much do you dislike working at this point? Would you be happier quitting than working? If the last answer is yes, does your wife realize that? Are your feelings about this important to her in her own heart?

Sorry if this has all been answered and I missed it.

Also, did she say she was going to shop less, or did you just ask/tell her to shop less? Because if she said she'd shop less, and still is shopping, she may have her own issues to deal with. Ones that could be difficult and yet should be treated with support, not opposition. Good luck learning about all this.

[fuzzy math]

On the other hand:
* the wife signed up for a class she wanted to take for a while; tuition payment of $600
* I signed up for a class (within my "funny money" budget), but still $400 this month

The main negative is the discussion with the wife. She keeps questioning the idea of "why do you want to quit when you're good at your job". What's more disconcerting, even though she seems to agree with my request to reduce spending; I still constantly see shopping trips popping up in Mint. :( Ideas on how to convince her without destroying the marriage welcome.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/


I think this is a hard turn for her from the lifestyle you've all been living. You're both continuing to spend (albeit less) and now suddenly you've had an epiphany and want your wife to quit living high off the hog like you've all enjoyed for forever.
The entire reason we suggest these little things is that it shows a commitment to a new philosophy of happiness not surrounding spending. You've signed up for a new class, signaling to your wife that you want to continue to spend freely as you wish (regardless of whether it came from your personal account or not). I would tread very lightly around critiquing her purchases until she can see that you've changed and you're ready to walk the walk instead of just talking the talk. It may take her a while. This month it may be groceries. Next month it may be you not signing up for classes. Then 3-6 months down the line its a bit easier on her and she may want to make some changes on her end.

[sleepless_in_seattle]

thanks everyone for the replies, I now have more reading material than time available, so the responses will be somewhat terse and delayed.

@fuzzy math - I get your point. The class is for professional development, not entertainment value. So while your argument is valid I don't think it applies to this case.

In any case, I will ensure to watch the class budget more closely. Also, as an unexpected bonus - I signed up to volunteer at the math school where my kids go; which gives a small pay and a 50% discount on tuition, which is pretty nice :)

@lhamo, thanks for the offer to review our grocery bill. I think I need first to do a better job tracking it to have a clearer breakdown. I have nothing against FredMeyer; in fact will probably switch from weekly Costco shopping to Costco/FM on alternating weeks. Let me see how it goes in September and I might take you up on the offer to help me review the purchases.

One thing you mentioned that I never tried - following loss leaders. I've always treated these flyers as a mailbox spam. If there's any material on how to spot these deals, I'm very curious to learn.

To everyone else: SO seems onboard with the _idea_ of cutting spending; but not with the practical implementation of it. For now, I'll be the one doing the grocery shopping to get a better handle on it; let's see if with time she plays along.

[seattlecyclone]

One thing you mentioned that I never tried - following loss leaders. I've always treated these flyers as a mailbox spam. If there's any material on how to spot these deals, I'm very curious to learn.

One place you can start, without memorizing typical prices for stuff, is to look at the ads for deals where they limit the number you can buy for the advertised price. The fact that they're not willing to sell you as many as you want is a sign that they might be losing money on the deal.

[Metalcat]

One thing you mentioned that I never tried - following loss leaders. I've always treated these flyers as a mailbox spam. If there's any material on how to spot these deals, I'm very curious to learn.

Just FYI, I never shop sales or ever look at flyers and I still have no problem keeping my food costs extremely low.

If I see something non perishable that I regularly buy on sale, I may stock up a bit, but that's it. I certainly don't plan my meals around sales or anything.

[BlueHouse]

I never even walk into a Costco unless I'm willing to drop $200.  That means I do not go grocery shopping there.  Of course, there's just me, so I had a lot of food waste.  It's cheaper for me to shop at a fancy supermarket or even have pre-made food than it is for me to shop at costco. 

OP, I encourage you to participate in this thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/save-50k-single-100k-couple-in-2019/100/

It may give you more ideas for where to stash money and more encouragement to save rather than spend.  Plus, it will encourage others like me who want to see someone saving a lot of cash! 

[lutorm]

I think the key to lowering consumption is to decide to take a small step, get used to doing things that way, evaluate whether it was worth it, and then repeat. Hedonic adaptation works in both directions, so you may realize after giving something up that you don't really miss it and are just as happy. Trying to cut a bunch of stuff cold turkey adds a lot of pressure and creates a sharp "spike" that your hedonic adaptation will trigger on. The key is to slowly but steadily stop spending money on stuff.

[ChpBstrd]

You can retire the day after you sell that house and move to a low or medium COL area.

The puzzle you are trying to solve is how to retire with so much of your money tied up in that particular house, but it would be much easier to solve a different puzzle.

[sleepless_in_seattle]

You can retire the day after you sell that house and move to a low or medium COL area.

The puzzle you are trying to solve is how to retire with so much of your money tied up in that particular house, but it would be much easier to solve a different puzzle.

That's definitely a possibility longer term. There's also something to be said about cheaper property tax etc in a lower COL area. This is not possible, however, while the kids are still at school - moving them now would be too disruptive. Maybe I need to move to Bend, OR as part of RE when the time comes to make the math easier.

[habanero]

This is not possible, however, while the kids are still at school - moving them now would be too disruptive.

Well - moving intercity, to another city, to another state or even to another country happens all the time. I doubt if you meet someone who has done such a thing that you tell them they have screwed up life for their kids. I get that you don't want to and think it's the best option, but plenty of people choose otherwise.

I know a guy from university who moved from India to Norway when he was in his teens. He finds it utterly hillarious when parents think they can't even move to a new school district within the same city or the kids would suffer massively.

You have the option to do what you think is best for the kids, which is fine and more important than retiring sooner rather than later. But the idea that moving is so horrible has always surprised me. I mean, it's pretty common to switch social circles, activities and what not multiple times from age 7 to 18 even if not moving.

[ontheway2]

Trusting your total of 8k spend not counting the 1k savings, you can retire as soon as your youngest starts kindergarten. You have 2.3M,or $7,666/month saved. Drop the $500 from food plus $1500 daycare, and your spending is ~$7,500. Costs for your youngest will increase, but your oldest two will age out of your financial care, so costs can shift. Obviously you can cut more, but you are currently FI it seems

Edit: Except for healthcare and taxes. Do you have a plan for healthcare?

For food, about how much do you pay per pound for your protein/main item? How much food, if any, do you toss each week?

[sleepless_in_seattle]

Trusting your total of 8k spend not counting the 1k savings, you can retire as soon as your youngest starts kindergarten. You have 2.3M,or $7,666/month saved. Drop the $500 from food plus $1500 daycare, and your spending is ~$7,500. Costs for your youngest will increase, but your oldest two will age out of your financial care, so costs can shift. Obviously you can cut more, but you are currently FI it seems

Probably if you cut the spending or move as the @ChpBstrd has suggested. I'd like to preserve the current quality of life and do occasional travel so this means planning for the same expenses for now.

Edit: Except for healthcare and taxes. Do you have a plan for healthcare?

I haven't looked closely at it beyond considering the ACA provided insurance. It looks like that would cost ~500/month - 6k/year for us. The main catch is it's EPO; which I believe exposes us in case you get treated by an out of network provider (eg. in case of an accident or in a hospital where one cannot control everything). Curious to know how people deal with it + what people typically do for healthcare once retired, esp. in WA.

For food, about how much do you pay per pound for your protein/main item? How much food, if any, do you toss each week?

It's a mix of chicken parts (thighs, breast) at ~3/lb and fish (which the DW+kids like) at ~8/lb. Occasional (once in 2 months) steaks at 9/lb.

Re. tossing - it used to be pretty bad. I've instituted tighter control over what we buy in August as part of cutting the grocery bill; so far it's been a lot better. Let's see how it goes for another couple of months.

[Freedomin5]

We spend around $100-150/week in our HCOL city and manage to feed five adults and a kid. A few tips we use to keep our bill down..

Shop at the discount grocery store (in Toronto, it’s Food Basics/No Frills). On the west coast in the US, I’ve heard people on the forum talk about Aldi and Winco.

Buy what’s in season and what’s on sale. When stuff is really on sale, buy a lot of it and freeze it. Eg, Blueberries and strawberries are very cheap in the summer where we live, so we buy the max allowed and freeze them.

Shop the edge of the store. Avoid the center of the store where all the processed and expensive junk is located.

Make it yourself from scratch if possible. We make our own pizza, bread (sometimes), peanut butter, smoothies, etc. Most of what we choose to make from scratch is easy and quick.

Buy meat in bulk and then split it into meal-size portions before putting it in the freezer.

Eat less meat and more veggies.

[secondcor521]

I haven't looked closely at it beyond considering the ACA provided insurance. It looks like that would cost ~500/month - 6k/year for us. The main catch is it's EPO; which I believe exposes us in case you get treated by an out of network provider (eg. in case of an accident or in a hospital where one cannot control everything). Curious to know how people deal with it + what people typically do for healthcare once retired, esp. in WA.

Check with your plan, but in the case of an accident, most policies cover emergency and urgent care even if out of network.  As far as in a hospital, again, unless it's an emergency, you can either confirm ahead of time that everyone in in network and/or go to an in-network hospital, or, under certain circumstances, you can appeal and ask the insurance company to cover an out-of-network doc as in-network.

I'm FIREd and on an ACA plan in Idaho.  WA, obviously, may differ.

[seattlecyclone]

I haven't looked closely at it beyond considering the ACA provided insurance. It looks like that would cost ~500/month - 6k/year for us. The main catch is it's EPO; which I believe exposes us in case you get treated by an out of network provider (eg. in case of an accident or in a hospital where one cannot control everything). Curious to know how people deal with it + what people typically do for healthcare once retired, esp. in WA.

Check with your plan, but in the case of an accident, most policies cover emergency and urgent care even if out of network.  As far as in a hospital, again, unless it's an emergency, you can either confirm ahead of time that everyone in in network and/or go to an in-network hospital, or, under certain circumstances, you can appeal and ask the insurance company to cover an out-of-network doc as in-network.

I'm FIREd and on an ACA plan in Idaho.  WA, obviously, may differ.

Emergency care out of network, yes, the ACA mandates that coverage. Urgent care is a different story. There are currently four companies offering ACA marketplace plans in Seattle. Only one of them (Kaiser Permanente) covers urgent care out of network. Since none of the plans have networks that cross state lines as far as I can tell, this can be a concern when traveling.

[sleepless_in_seattle]

Alright, let's turn this into a journal, here's the monthly update for September.

Good news:
* Grocery spending down to 1400 from 1550 in August; and this includes stocking up on some cleaning products on sale at Costco (~$200)
* Take home net income up to $2700 from $2550 (this is take home pay, without contributions to 401k and stock grants). Income  10700, spending 8000.
* Savings rate of 65% last month, up from 61% in August (this including all the retirement plans contributions and stock based comp).

Bad news:
* Out of ~8k spending last month, 4k went to children's activities and daycare. Some of it is payment for 2+ months so hopefully will be less in October
* Property tax payment is coming up this month meaning net income will go negative, most likely.


If I'm calculating correctly, my 4% withdrawal income would be ~8800, which means I'm technically FI? not sure how to feel about it.

[Laura33]

I suggest that you stop focusing on a very specific date and start thinking of FI as a continuum of time at work vs. lifestyle.

-- You are FI now.  Congrats!!  You've earned a lot of money and done smart things with a lot of it.  That means that you can quit any time you like, if you're willing to make a few lifestyle tweaks.

-- If you're willing to work a few more years, you will be FI at your current lifestyle.

-- If you want to work 10 or 20 more years, you can buy a boat and vacation home and live like your compatriots in the 1%.

Etc.

The larger point is that you don't have to do anything at all, because you have sufficient income and assets to do whatever the hell you want.  From this point on, everything is a choice, and you have the power and ability to choose from a variety of good options.  And if at any point you decide that your particular choice is no longer working for you, you can change it.  So the real question is which choice best suits both of you right now?

This is what my DH and I did, btw:  we have a spreadsheet with different versions of retirement, which range from both of us working until 65 all the way down to one that he has literally titled "Fuck It" (a/k/a both of us quitting right now).  We share many of your issues -- high-income, DH much more of a spendypants than I am, DH also being really resistant to quitting within the next @10 yrs or so (which, btw, has grown from 5-8 yrs a couple of years ago, grrr).  Having the variety of options laid out before us helps us both re-evaluate periodically how well our current choice is working for us and whether we want to change anything (for example, I decided to go part-time a year or so ago, because it was clear that we didn't need the extra income).

IOW, don't hyperfixate on cutting a particular budget category just because -- all that does is enforce a feeling of deprivation that tends to trigger an overreaction in another area.  If you like your job well enough to continue working for another 3-4 years, you can keep up your current grocery bill in perpetuity.*  OTOH, if your job isn't as appealing, and you're feeling like you're shooting money out the door through a firehose and not getting any value for it, then it totally makes sense to focus in on where the money is going and what you can cut back on without affecting your quality of life.** 

To facilitate that, the best thing you can do is to track your spending -- every penny -- and then evaluate what that is getting you.  You don't spend for no reason; you do it because you enjoy a particular thing, or because it makes you feel successful or like you're doing something for your family, or because it buys you more free time, or just because you feel lazy and don't want to deal with something.  Usually once you start paying attention, you realize that things are out of whack -- maybe you thought something would be great but it didn't bring you the satisfaction you'd like, maybe being lazy wasn't as fun as you thought it would be, maybe you realized that spending money to feel successful was pretty counterintuitive and stupid,*** etc.  And that helps you make conscious choices to spend or not spend, which in turn will naturally help you adjust your spending to focus on the things that do actually improve your life in some meaningful way.

*I, for one, will give up my house cleaners when you pry them out of my cold, dead hands.  I've done the math, I know exactly how much more I need saved to pay for cleaners for the rest of my life and how much longer I need to work to save that extra, and I am more than willing to make that tradeoff.

**E.g., I am more than happy to shop at ALDI, but I also preserve a healthy restaurant budget, because DH and I really like eating out.

***If you can convince my DH of this, please let me know how.

[sleepless_in_seattle]

Thanks @Laura33!

To be clear, the reason I'm tracking food spending this closely is because I think it used to be completely crazy out of control at 2k. We are still buying pretty much anything but being more conscious about pricing (eg. apples at Costco are 2x more expensive than Fred Meyers); and about quantities we buy to minimize food being thrown. This alone brought the spending down to the new levels.

Similarly, I'm conscious of spending on extracurriculars for the kids; I have asked my daughter to trade off two of them (she picked alternating weeks for each). It's not because I couldn't pay for both, but because I want her to understand the value of money and stay within the agreed budget. OTOH, if the activity improves their chances of getting a good education, I am not going to ask questions.

We gave up the house cleaner and it didn't add much strain. I now ensure Roomba is turned on regularly and DW splashes clorine into the toilets every other week. IMHO this is not worth the money; but as you say it's a matter of preference.

On spending; we each have "fun budget" which DW spends every month on the 1st of the month, no exceptions :) She prefers buying stuff, while I just keep it and occassionally buy either a bigger thing (a new gadget for example); or an experience.

I don't think I am ready to give up work while 50% of my budget goes to kid classes. I want to see what things look like when they're in college; 3-4 years from now. This aligns with the original schedule I had in mind.

Thanks for the advice of building scenarios; I'll give it a try!

[BicycleB]

Good job with the grocery improvement, @sleepless_in_seattle.

Enjoy your FI adventures...looking forward to future posts.