Author Topic: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist  (Read 2973 times)

mtnrider

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FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« on: January 31, 2021, 04:03:55 PM »
My FIRE phase of life is coming, but I like the current phase too.  [See David Tennant’s regeneration on Doctor Who, “I don’t want to go.”]    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEY5AL5zzk

I’m proceeding cautiously, going through the checklists, trying to see what I’ve missed.  There’s no rush, but I also want to get out and do things while I’m still (relatively) young enough to do them.  I’m balancing this with my love of open source projects.  So one more year, then a sabbatical, and then I’ll decide.

I haven’t found many detailed checklists for those right at the cusp of FIRE.  What other areas should I look into? 

Here’s what I’ve collected so far.

  • Finances: I’m at 3% SWR.  It's roughly half in a 401k, with the rest in Roth and I Bonds/taxable.  AA is 75:25 with bonds skewed to the 401k.  I’ve had a financial advisor look this over.
  • Withdrawal Strategy: I’ll try to do capital gains harvesting and Roth conversions during years when my income is low.  Otherwise I’ll either work or draw from the taxable accounts until I hit 59.5. 
  • Relationships: my wife is on board.  She’s in better financial shape than me, but wants to continue in her calling for about 5 more years.  My friends will still be working.  Still figuring on how to tell the kids and extended family.
  • Debts: none
  • Life Insurance: none
  • Social Security: Will take it at 70.  Maybe earlier if it looks like the RMDs will be high due to high market returns.  (First world problems.)
  • Major Expenses: One child meandering through college.  I have enough in a 529 to pay for half of a state school.
  • Normal Expenses: mustachian.  I’ve amortized normal expenses - roof, furnace, cars and so on - into the withdrawal rate.
  • Healthcare:  It will be covered by DW’s job.  No major health concerns.  Once covid is over, I’ll bring my immunizations and screenings up to date.
  • Hobbies: Over 50, I’m not going to be hang gliding or jumping berms, but I have a long bucket list of things I can still do.  I may join the governance of some local outdoors clubs.
  • Why?: I'm not running from my job, but I want to ride more, thinking about riding across the US and/or hiking some long distance trails.  I want to be a major contributor to an open source project.
Rough plan:
  • 2021: we’re still in covid times, so work this year, continue saving as usual  (One More Year Syndrome!)
  • 2022: work half the year, take a half year sabbatical; there’s good chance I’ll be turned down for the sabbatical, so I need to be emotionally and financially prepared to leave
  • 2023: if granted the sabbatical in 2022, work at least 6 months of this year to decide if work is still calling to me; if I wasn’t granted the sabbatical I’ll create an app or something
  • 2024+: look for work in open source, paid or not


Known Unknowns:
  • We’ll downsize the house, not sure what will happen there
  • Seeing my parents age now, I’m a little concerned about long term care later in life
  • I still need to figure out how to tell the (adult) kids.
  • The financial advisor I talked to was more focused on traditional retirement, so was only vaguely familiar with some of the FIRE techniques.  I’ll be on the lookout for more ideas.  I'm close enough that it may not matter though.
  • Market fluctuations.  My spending is flexible, and I’d be happy enough to work a year or two to work in my field again.


Unknown Unknowns:
   ???
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 04:25:10 PM by mtnrider »

shuffler

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2021, 04:54:35 PM »
I haven’t found many detailed checklists for those right at the cusp of FIRE.  What other areas should I look into? 
The "Pre-FIRE Checklist" sticky post ... perhaps somewhat unintuitively stickied at the top of the Post-FIRE section of the forum.

youngwildandfree

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2021, 05:51:29 PM »
RE telling the kids; I would bet you are overthinking this. I hate that our parents are still needing to work in their 50s/60s. If they called me tomorrow to say that they were planning to quit the 9-5 and focus on open source projects and hobbies I would be ecstatic. If the kids aren't frugal minded it's a good chance to talk through what options they could have with a little planning now.

mtnrider

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 AM »
I haven’t found many detailed checklists for those right at the cusp of FIRE.  What other areas should I look into? 
The "Pre-FIRE Checklist" sticky post ... perhaps somewhat unintuitively stickied at the top of the Post-FIRE section of the forum.

That is very helpful!

mtnrider

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 07:16:03 AM »
RE telling the kids; I would bet you are overthinking this. I hate that our parents are still needing to work in their 50s/60s. If they called me tomorrow to say that they were planning to quit the 9-5 and focus on open source projects and hobbies I would be ecstatic. If the kids aren't frugal minded it's a good chance to talk through what options they could have with a little planning now.

One will be just like that.  I have only the normal concerns there.

The other is having a harder time steering into early adulthood.  Still a good person, but think of an adult rejecting all responsibilities and living at mom's.  Almost, but not quite fully, NEET.  That's a more delicate situation.

flyingaway

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2021, 10:13:25 AM »
So you are FIREing and not FIREing, dancing between working and not working. That may be a good idea to test the water.

Linea_Norway

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 11:49:50 AM »
RE telling the kids; I would bet you are overthinking this. I hate that our parents are still needing to work in their 50s/60s. If they called me tomorrow to say that they were planning to quit the 9-5 and focus on open source projects and hobbies I would be ecstatic. If the kids aren't frugal minded it's a good chance to talk through what options they could have with a little planning now.

One will be just like that.  I have only the normal concerns there.

The other is having a harder time steering into early adulthood.  Still a good person, but think of an adult rejecting all responsibilities and living at mom's.  Almost, but not quite fully, NEET.  That's a more delicate situation.

A young adult can only live off mom if she allows him to. It is very reasonable to give a student a limited financial contribution and let the student self provide for the extras. And to tell them during their study time that after graduation they are out on their own, financially independent from parents. If they choose to stay at home, they need to pay a realistic house rent.

And yes, sabbaticals can be denied, even if you are a highly valued employee. Mine was. Be prepared to resign if they say no.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 11:51:33 AM by Linea_Norway »

jeroly

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 05:53:41 AM »
My FIRE phase of life is coming, but I like the current phase too.  [See David Tennant’s regeneration on Doctor Who, “I don’t want to go.”]    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEY5AL5zzk

I’m proceeding cautiously, going through the checklists, trying to see what I’ve missed.  There’s no rush, but I also want to get out and do things while I’m still (relatively) young enough to do them.  I’m balancing this with my love of open source projects.  So one more year, then a sabbatical, and then I’ll decide.

I haven’t found many detailed checklists for those right at the cusp of FIRE.  What other areas should I look into? 

Here’s what I’ve collected so far.

  • Finances: I’m at 3% SWR.  It's roughly half in a 401k, with the rest in Roth and I Bonds/taxable.  AA is 75:25 with bonds skewed to the 401k.  I’ve had a financial advisor look this over.
  • Withdrawal Strategy: I’ll try to do capital gains harvesting and Roth conversions during years when my income is low.  Otherwise I’ll either work or draw from the taxable accounts until I hit 59.5. 
  • Relationships: my wife is on board.  She’s in better financial shape than me, but wants to continue in her calling for about 5 more years.  My friends will still be working.  Still figuring on how to tell the kids and extended family.
  • Debts: none
  • Life Insurance: none
  • Social Security: Will take it at 70.  Maybe earlier if it looks like the RMDs will be high due to high market returns.  (First world problems.)
  • Major Expenses: One child meandering through college.  I have enough in a 529 to pay for half of a state school.
  • Normal Expenses: mustachian.  I’ve amortized normal expenses - roof, furnace, cars and so on - into the withdrawal rate.
  • Healthcare:  It will be covered by DW’s job.  No major health concerns.  Once covid is over, I’ll bring my immunizations and screenings up to date.
  • Hobbies: Over 50, I’m not going to be hang gliding or jumping berms, but I have a long bucket list of things I can still do.  I may join the governance of some local outdoors clubs.
  • Why?: I'm not running from my job, but I want to ride more, thinking about riding across the US and/or hiking some long distance trails.  I want to be a major contributor to an open source project.
Rough plan:
  • 2021: we’re still in covid times, so work this year, continue saving as usual  (One More Year Syndrome!)
  • 2022: work half the year, take a half year sabbatical; there’s good chance I’ll be turned down for the sabbatical, so I need to be emotionally and financially prepared to leave
  • 2023: if granted the sabbatical in 2022, work at least 6 months of this year to decide if work is still calling to me; if I wasn’t granted the sabbatical I’ll create an app or something
  • 2024+: look for work in open source, paid or not


Known Unknowns:
  • We’ll downsize the house, not sure what will happen there
  • Seeing my parents age now, I’m a little concerned about long term care later in life
  • I still need to figure out how to tell the (adult) kids.
  • The financial advisor I talked to was more focused on traditional retirement, so was only vaguely familiar with some of the FIRE techniques.  I’ll be on the lookout for more ideas.  I'm close enough that it may not matter though.
  • Market fluctuations.  My spending is flexible, and I’d be happy enough to work a year or two to work in my field again.


Unknown Unknowns:
   ???

First of all I love your line about your child meandering through college.

Second of all it looks like you are in good shape to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with two caveats...

- Your health insurance.  I know you said that you will take it through your SO's employment, but you should factor in the worst case scenario of her losing her job and add that in to potential expenses.
- End-of-life care: Allocate a current $300k into this bucket.

When you subtract that from your stash and add in your own health insurance, do you still wind up with a WR of less than 4%?  Then I'd say that you're okay!

mtnrider

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2021, 06:54:47 AM »
A young adult can only live off mom if she allows him to. It is very reasonable to give a student a limited financial contribution and let the student self provide for the extras. And to tell them during their study time that after graduation they are out on their own, financially independent from parents. If they choose to stay at home, they need to pay a realistic house rent.

Totally agree.  I'd let them stay at home rent-free, if in school full time.



And yes, sabbaticals can be denied, even if you are a highly valued employee. Mine was. Be prepared to resign if they say no.

I'm psyching myself up for this!  It will be hard to turn away from RSUs*, but as they say, you can't take it with you.


* it also occurs to me that my RSUs may well be meger compared with other companies, the grass really could be greener elsewhere!

mtnrider

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2021, 07:12:21 AM »
First of all I love your line about your child meandering through college.

This is actually my biggest concern. :(  DC is very smart, more than smart enough to have realized one can take 2-3 classes/year, not work, and live with mom.  I'm hoping maturity and natural drive kicks in soon.


Second of all it looks like you are in good shape to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with two caveats...

- Your health insurance.  I know you said that you will take it through your SO's employment, but you should factor in the worst case scenario of her losing her job and add that in to potential expenses.
- End-of-life care: Allocate a current $300k into this bucket.

When you subtract that from your stash and add in your own health insurance, do you still wind up with a WR of less than 4%?  Then I'd say that you're okay!

Good point about health insurance and EOL care.  I'm at 4% with ACA health insurance, even unsubsidized.  Throwing in $300k for EOL care is over.  How do you come up with the 300k number?  Is that a rule of thumb I haven't heard of?

I'm going to try to make this up by working until 2022.  Since I really like my career, I'll most likely be working again after the sabbatical, so I can reevaluate my position then.


SunshineGirl

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 08:13:08 AM »
A suggestion, if you haven't already - read through The Safe Withdrawal Rate Series on Early Retirement Now. https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/

Very interesting. He makes the case that including a cash cushion to draw from in times when the market is down is important. You would take from that and replenish once the market is up again.

Another thing to think through during your OMY - the idea that once you've "won the game," should you stop playing? I'm actually dividing my retirement into buckets - roughly a 10-year drawdown bucket invested 30-70 (Vanguard Retirement Income), a middle bucket invested 50-50 or 60-40, depending on the account that should last 15 years, and then the rest at 100% VTSAX. It comes out to roughly a 55% stock allocation overall. I'm guessing that seeing years of decline, especially serious decline, is going to be hard, and this is my way of staying the course. My point - is your 75-25% allocation one you need to retire?

Finally, take a look at these white papers and info from Vanguard on international investing. Not sure if your investments are already including it, but these reports indicate that international helps with volatility - which, again, is something that will help in the draw-down phase. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/investment/international-investing

That's what I would do in my last year of work - look for ways to reduce volatility & take risk off the table. Would love for you to journal your last year's considerations & decisions.

jeroly

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 10:23:19 AM »
First of all I love your line about your child meandering through college.

This is actually my biggest concern. :(  DC is very smart, more than smart enough to have realized one can take 2-3 classes/year, not work, and live with mom.  I'm hoping maturity and natural drive kicks in soon.


Second of all it looks like you are in good shape to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with two caveats...

- Your health insurance.  I know you said that you will take it through your SO's employment, but you should factor in the worst case scenario of her losing her job and add that in to potential expenses.
- End-of-life care: Allocate a current $300k into this bucket.

When you subtract that from your stash and add in your own health insurance, do you still wind up with a WR of less than 4%?  Then I'd say that you're okay!

Good point about health insurance and EOL care.  I'm at 4% with ACA health insurance, even unsubsidized.  Throwing in $300k for EOL care is over.  How do you come up with the 300k number?  Is that a rule of thumb I haven't heard of?

I'm going to try to make this up by working until 2022.  Since I really like my career, I'll most likely be working again after the sabbatical, so I can reevaluate my position then.

I base it from estimated cost of three years of full time home care, less typical expenses (I.e. you won’t be taking trips, going out for dinners, etc.) plus extra healthcare costs like medication, hospitalizations, doctors etc.  That was approx. what it cost my aunt in her last years, none of which was covered by her LTC coverage btw.

mtnrider

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 06:53:00 AM »
A suggestion, if you haven't already - read through The Safe Withdrawal Rate Series on Early Retirement Now. https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/

Very interesting. He makes the case that including a cash cushion to draw from in times when the market is down is important. You would take from that and replenish once the market is up again.

Another thing to think through during your OMY - the idea that once you've "won the game," should you stop playing? I'm actually dividing my retirement into buckets - roughly a 10-year drawdown bucket invested 30-70 (Vanguard Retirement Income), a middle bucket invested 50-50 or 60-40, depending on the account that should last 15 years, and then the rest at 100% VTSAX. It comes out to roughly a 55% stock allocation overall. I'm guessing that seeing years of decline, especially serious decline, is going to be hard, and this is my way of staying the course. My point - is your 75-25% allocation one you need to retire?

Finally, take a look at these white papers and info from Vanguard on international investing. Not sure if your investments are already including it, but these reports indicate that international helps with volatility - which, again, is something that will help in the draw-down phase. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/investment/international-investing

That's what I would do in my last year of work - look for ways to reduce volatility & take risk off the table. Would love for you to journal your last year's considerations & decisions.

Good points.

I didn't mention it above, but of my stock allocation, 25% is in international and 75% is in US domestic.

The bucket idea is an interesting one.  Do you have separate investment accounts for each bucket? 

I will have a few fallbacks if the ERN bad-market-in-early-years scenario happens.  1) I have a big cash allocation, over one year of expenses, not included above; 2) I really do like my profession, so I don't mind going back to work, or taking contract positions for a year or two; 3) I can cut back some, if needed; and 4) I don't want it to come to this, but my wife will still be employed and we could easily survive on her salary alone.

SunshineGirl

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Re: FIRE-ready? Looking for a review and a FIRE checklist
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2021, 05:44:29 PM »
A suggestion, if you haven't already - read through The Safe Withdrawal Rate Series on Early Retirement Now. https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/

Very interesting. He makes the case that including a cash cushion to draw from in times when the market is down is important. You would take from that and replenish once the market is up again.

Another thing to think through during your OMY - the idea that once you've "won the game," should you stop playing? I'm actually dividing my retirement into buckets - roughly a 10-year drawdown bucket invested 30-70 (Vanguard Retirement Income), a middle bucket invested 50-50 or 60-40, depending on the account that should last 15 years, and then the rest at 100% VTSAX. It comes out to roughly a 55% stock allocation overall. I'm guessing that seeing years of decline, especially serious decline, is going to be hard, and this is my way of staying the course. My point - is your 75-25% allocation one you need to retire?

Finally, take a look at these white papers and info from Vanguard on international investing. Not sure if your investments are already including it, but these reports indicate that international helps with volatility - which, again, is something that will help in the draw-down phase. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/investment/international-investing

That's what I would do in my last year of work - look for ways to reduce volatility & take risk off the table. Would love for you to journal your last year's considerations & decisions.

Good points.

I didn't mention it above, but of my stock allocation, 25% is in international and 75% is in US domestic.

The bucket idea is an interesting one.  Do you have separate investment accounts for each bucket? 

I will have a few fallbacks if the ERN bad-market-in-early-years scenario happens.  1) I have a big cash allocation, over one year of expenses, not included above; 2) I really do like my profession, so I don't mind going back to work, or taking contract positions for a year or two; 3) I can cut back some, if needed; and 4) I don't want it to come to this, but my wife will still be employed and we could easily survive on her salary alone.

It's all in the same Vanguard account, some in taxable, Roth, & traditional IRA. Some of the conservative cushion is in money market funds, and the rest is in Retirement Income (VTINX). VTINX is in both my taxable and traditional IRA.

My moderate investments are Vanguard tax-managed balanced fund (VTMFX) which is 50-50 and tries to be as tax efficient as possible. That's in my taxable account. I also have Life-strategy Moderate and Balanced Index (VBIAX), both of which are 60-40, in my Roth & traditional IRA.

Finally, I have VTSAX in taxable and Roth.

It's way less complicated than it sounds! Slightly less simple, but something I really love doing, is within the taxable Vanguard account, I do have "sub-accounts" that I have what I think of as Year One, Year Two, and Year Three money, which is the money I theoretically could withdraw those first three years. In actuality, I might take the money from somewhere else. I'm a super compartmentalized person & I'm also worried that I won't freely spend money that I should be freely spending - it's almost the idea of, "Here, spend this," that I am guessing I will need when the time comes.

On the Vanguard forum they talk often of a three-fund strategy. This is my version of it: MMF or Retirement Income; moderate all-in-one fund(s); and VTSAX. Since I'm still contributing, I generally put new investments into my moderate funds, but if the market tanks, I will probably shift my new money investments into VTSAX (buy on the decline).