Preparing For 1st Child, Should We Move?

[Steeze]

Deleted due to co-workers, should have been more stealth about my MMM fandom!

Mods - feel free to delete.

[newgirl]

Have you run the difference in COL between Colorado and NYC? If you have to take a salary cut of 20% but the COL is 40% lower (just making up numbers for an example), you're effectively giving yourself a raise by moving. Specific things to look at would be housing, utilities, medical, food, and daycare costs between the two areas as these will probably be the biggest chunk of your budget.

Also FWIW I would not recommend only working a year then dropping out to raise kids. She'll have a hell of a time getting back into the workforce and then what would the time and money spent on two masters degrees be for? That's just me, though, obviously this is a YMMV situation but if she's thinking she'll be able to work a year out of college, take 5 years off to raise kids, and hop back into the workforce when she's ready I think there's going to be a rude awakening.

[Paul der Krake]

Impossible to answer without an estimate of your wife's future earnings.

What was she doing before and what will she do now?

[Freedomin5]

It sounds like you have a lot of moving pieces. It all starts with where you and DW eventually want to live. I know you're from the country, but has your DW (who is Chinese, I assume, given that her parents are in China) ever lived in the country? I'm guessing DW is from a large city in China, given that her parents can afford to fund her education and living expenses in the US.

If you and DW eventually want to live in the country, then it doesn't make any sense for DW to start looking for work in NYC, especially if she's planning to leave the workforce shortly to have kids.

Also, it would then make sense for you to start looking for work in the city in which you and DW eventually want to call home, and try to settle into city life before she gets pregnant and baby comes along.

Will DW be doing the Chinese month-long cleansing ritual after baby is born? Will the in-laws be coming to the US to help care for the newborn? Will DW be flying back to China with baby if the in-laws can't make it to the US? If the expectation is for the in-laws to live with you and help care for the newborn, then you should look for a large enough house to house everyone.

Overall, I think it's important to find a location where both you and DW can find decent jobs that you enjoy, and have a lifestyle that you enjoy.

BTW, Option D kind of came out of nowhere. Not that I have anything against it (since that's what we're doing right now -- DH is teaching in China; we're raising a kid in China). BTW, be prepared for anything if you do choose to live near the in-laws. Arguments with in-laws over child-rearing best practices is often a source of conflict, especially if you're in a cross-cultural relationship. Even the most congenial in-law relationships are conflictual when it comes to child-rearing, simply because the in-laws grew up in a different culture in a different era, and will definitely have different ideas on how to "properly" raise a child. Plus, if you move to China, you won't be able to buy your own house, and that's a HUGE faux-pas.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I think the kid should come first. Maybe you discover raising a kid inNYC is perfect for you, maybe it's important that you leave. You won't know until you're holding the baby.

[Blackeagle]

The COL and salary aspects are kind of a distraction at this point.  This really isn't a financial question; the real question is what kind of life do you (and your wife) want to have?  Talk with her about your desires and goals as a couple/family and figure out what you really want.  Once you know that, then come back here with a case study and folks on this forum can help you can figure out how to make it work financially.

[lizzzi]

The COL and salary aspects are kind of a distraction at this point.  This really isn't a financial question; the real question is what kind of life do you (and your wife) want to have?  Talk with her about your desires and goals as a couple/family and figure out what you really want.  Once you know that, then come back here with a case study and folks on this forum can help you can figure out how to make it work financially.

This.

This is the time in your life when you and your wife just need to take a long deep breath, and say, "In a perfect world, where would we want to be living?" Brainstorm your dreams first...then decide how you can pay for it. (And babies are very portable--the kid can live anywhere.)

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Babies 100% do not care as long as they get held a lot, fed, a clean diaper, and a few square feet to wiggle. They're not born knowing if they're going to be nomads or architects.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

Reasonable daycare in the city will cost you about $25,000 per year per child.

[ysette9]

Wow, you have a lot going on there. I think you need to take one step at a time to see how it feels before making more decisions. What I mean is, it is really really hard to predict in advance how you will change when a baby comes. Personally I thought I wanted a long time at home with my babies (thought 6-12 months would be perfect), but discovered that being responsible for a baby day in and day out is an exhausting, isolating, depressing task. Throw in sleep deprivation and it is hands-down the hardest thing in the whole world. I am a happier woman now that I am back at work. Who knows how your wife will react?

My in-laws are Chinese so I have some experience here. The cross cultural clash potential is real and kids amplify this ten-fold. It will be more severe for you than for me because mine have been in this country for a long time. Pregnancy and kids bring out all sorts of superstitions and things that to our western eyes seem ridiculous (“don’t you dare tell me I can’t eat watermelon while pregnant!”).  I hope you are talking frankly about the unspoken expectations when it comes to kids. It is normal for grandparents to expect to live with the kids, take care of the grand babies, hell, ship the kid off across the world to be cared for by the grandparents for some extended period of time. All of those things are completely unacceptable to me personally but you may very well feel differently. My husband had the unspoken expectation that our first baby would be cared for by family members for the first year and then put in daycare. Sleep-deprived and introverted me just about jumped off a bridge at that idea because I cannot stand having extended family under my roof. I ended up having some tearful conversations with my husband where we had to draw lines and have fewer grandparent visits because I was about to jump off the deep end.

Sorry for the verbal dump. My overall point is to over communicate with your wife because these cultural differences are hard to navigate on a good day and having a baby makes it all SO much harder. You can also think you can plan it all out now, but you may be very surprised by how your preferences change once you have a real baby.

[lizzzi]

Just jumping in again to say that if you do move to a new city, it would probably be best to rent for a year while you look around for something to buy. You could always rent an apartment with an extra bedroom for the in-laws. Expensive, yes, but not as expensive as making a mistake and buying a house you later regret...because you weren't familiar enough with the area.

[Freedomin5]

Yes to both Ysette's and lhamo's posts.

With regard to the post-partum one month bedrest, you do realize that very traditional Chinese will also not allow your wife to bath or wash her hair, right? Because it's not healthy for her recovery. How do I know this? I live in China and had a baby here, and hired a yuesao because I thought extra help would be a good idea.

So definitely have frank conversations with your wife. It's not about the big "did they raise a good human being" kind of question. We're talking about little daily habits -- will grandma let your kid pee and poo on the sidewalk or in a trashcan at the mall? Will they allow your kid to learn to crawl on the floor or will they hold them all the time because the floor is cold and dirty? Will they insist on taking the baby back to their hometown to raise for the first three years of his/her life, only sending him/her back for preschool? Will they step in to 'save' their grandchild when you are trying to discipline him/her, or will they respect your parenting decisions?

These are all questions that have nothing to do with whether they are good people, and everything to do with cultural differences.

It raises a red flag that your wife grew up in such a small town (3 million is quite small for a city in China), especially if her parents have had no in-person exposure to the U.S. If her parents had lived for a time in the U.S., things may not be so concerning.

I think it's very much worth it to continue having conversations with your wife and making a joint decision in terms of where you want to live and work, and what kind of lifestyle you guys want to have. After all, you guys are in this together.

Oh, and regarding finding an engineering job in China, it's probably easier to find one in the US with a US company, and then ask to be transferred to China as an expat. You would then be placed on an expat package. You run the risk of being hired as a 'local' if you're hired after you arrive in China. Your salary should be decent, but sometimes you don't get as many of the perks.