Author Topic: don't even know where to start planning  (Read 4395 times)

nini01

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don't even know where to start planning
« on: July 09, 2019, 01:10:34 PM »
Topic Title: Trying to find the "right" way i should be investing and saving while trying to keep saving for a home and trying to also enjoy life. I really want to know where i should be saving my money, which accounts i should be opening. Life insurance?

Life Situation: I am a 30yo f married with one child who is 11. We live in the SF bay area. We file taxes jointly. We both have pretty stable jobs. A bit of background on our family; We just started to really try and save in 2017. Lets just say we struggled a bit to get to where we are now. I have worked at my present job for almost 5 years now 2 in this position. Before that i struggled with working and trying to take college classes to at least get some type of degree. Husband works in construction and has been studying to take get his own license to have side hustle. We used to save $100 or less each month because that is what we had extra.  As our income increased we try to put more money in savings.

Gross Salary/Wages: We make about $6000 a month

Individual amounts of each Pre-tax deductions The only pre tax deductions i have is $400 for pension which employer matches(trying to figure out what they are matching since i forgot). And a $50 union dues

Expenses
Home:$1900
Autos $650 2.3 %  (loan. Amt includes extra principal payment i make)
TV& internet:$75 ( cable, streaming, internet)
Phone$100 ( two phone lines with sprint)
Insurance:$190
Utilities:$55
Pet:$30
Kid activities $100( soccer/girl scouts)
Food $350 (groceries)
Gas $320(husband works all over the bay area)
Hair/nails: $65
Gym $50( two memberships)
braces/medical daughter $275
Entertainment $150( movies, museums, themeparks)
Eating out $250(restaurants and fast food)
Shopping$200 (clothes/shoes/personal care/beauty/home supplies, etc )
Misc $250
Savings transfer $500-$1k (depending on the month)

Assets
regular savings account $51k
daughter savings $3k yes way too low. I stopped adding to it because i wanted to move it to something better but have not gotten around to it.
401k from old job $12k
IRa from old job $2k
Current Pension $15k



I have times where i crack down and tell the family no more spending on things like eating out or stuff we don't need but want. Then i go in to my phase of we only live once and I want to enjoy life and have vacations and fun times as a family. I do know that we want to buy a home and we also need to really start saving more. after reading a few case studies I have been doing jaw exercises to prepare for the punching. I know i need to change some things. I would love to know how to invest or find someone who can help with that.


Totally wanting all the advice and help just a bit scared.
Thank all

tamuaggie2011

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 01:58:34 PM »
The first item to begin with is that: the "right" way to be saving and investing will depend on you and your husband have for financial goals.

In regards to expenses: you are spending almost as much each month to eat out as you do with buying food at home. This amount should be drastically slashed and the money applied to paying off the auto loan

Once that auto loan is paid off. The entire $650 should be dedicated to savings. Exactly how would again depend on your financial goals. There is of course the MMM investment order which is pretty good generally speaking.

As far as steps to fight the mental struggles with "you only live once", I think the biggest step is truly step back and think and how much you/your family really value something. A lot of expenses originally made with the "YOLO" mindset really weren't near as valuable and things or experiences we realize we can be happy without. If it is purchasing items, make yourself wait a week to see if you still really desire the item for example.

Hope these suggestions help :)

MDM

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 02:04:26 PM »
There is of course the MMM investment order which is pretty good generally speaking.
nini01, see Investment Order for what tamuaggie2011 references.

Hirondelle

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 02:28:46 PM »
I'm not US-based so I don't have a handle on all your expenses, but I will go through them and point out what stands out to me.

Expenses
Home:$1900
Autos $650 2.3 %  (loan. Amt includes extra principal payment i make)
How much is the car and how much do you owe?
TV& internet:$75 ( cable, streaming, internet)
Phone$100 ( two phone lines with sprint)
That's a lot, there quite a few threads out there that can help you get cheaper phone plans.
Insurance:$190
Totally depends on what's insured for this price. Car? Life insurance? All insurances?
Utilities:$55
Pet:$30
Kid activities $100 (soccer/girl scouts)
Food $350 (groceries)
Very reasonable for a family of 3. For more badassity, check out the groceries under $200 thread (family of 4!)
Gas $320(husband works all over the bay area)
That's a lot. What type of car do you have and what's the mileage? Any change you can get a better mileage car or an EV and reduce this?
Hair/nails: $65
Big face punch on this one. That's a ridiculous number. Should be halved overnight.
Gym $50( two memberships)
Reasonable
Braces/medical daughter $275
Ugh that's a lot, but I guess it's not preventable?
Entertainment $150 (movies, museums, themeparks)
How much do you get for this? Could you increase your amount of free entertainment? Considering that theme parks are mentioned as an example it sounds like you're visiting them too much. You've got the beach for free, right there :)
Eating out $250(restaurants and fast food)
Fast food shouldn't be a category as it's ideally eliminated for health reasons (+ it tastes awful). What type of restaurant spending is this? Date night? Dinners with friends? Convenience food?
Shopping$200 (clothes/shoes/personal care/beauty/home supplies, etc)
Way. Too. Much.
Misc $250
What kind of things are covered here? It's kind of high but it depends on what sort of 'one offs' you counted
Savings transfer $500-$1k (depending on the month)
That's a good start

I notice you have no vacation budget, is this part of the entertainment section or do you never travel? Especially as you mention family vacations. Maybe part of Misc?

Regarding the YOLO thoughts; I agree with you. We only live once and we should make most of it. Turns out, gel nails, beauty products and unlimited data phone plans aren't really what I consider 'living your best life'. Hence I ask for some categories 'what do you get for this money'. You love a certain restaurant and go for a date night once a month? Great! You eat at McDonalds every other day? Hmm, doesn't seem worth it. Figure out what your 'best life' looks like and see what categories of your spending align with that and which ones don't. That'll give you some insight on 'painless' cuts that you won't even miss.


Bernard

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 02:36:46 PM »
Where you can really cut expenses is in restaurants and entertainment. Pay off the auto loans, then invest the $650 per month into one or two traditional IRAs. If you do that for the next 27 years, you'll have a million bucks in that account.

Treat going out as a special event that you do on rare occasions only. And there is plenty of entertainment to have that doesn't cost anything or very little.

nini01

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 03:09:50 PM »

In regards to expenses: you are spending almost as much each month to eat out as you do with buying food at home. This amount should be drastically slashed and the money applied to paying off the auto loan

I agree 100% about the the food/entertainment budget. Eating out includes coffee on the weekends, lunch for either myself or husband once or twice a week, date night, family dinners when i don't cook. I am usually less of a fast food more of a at home dinner but sometimes i have to many things scheduled that there is no time. We have definitely talked about this in the last months and this is a big one that we can and will cut down. We need to manage our time better so that we can also manage our money better.

marty998

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 03:20:04 PM »
+1, to summarise the above comments, you are leaking over $17,000 a year on the car loan, entertainment, eating out, shopping and misc.

And you'll be able to save another $3,000/yr when the costs of your daughter's braces end.

Villanelle

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 03:32:52 PM »
Is relocation an option?  It sounds like your husband might be able to do his job anywhere, so depending on what you do, moving to a lower COL area might be an option.  You mention the Bay Area but your rent seems very low for that, so I'm guessing you are fairly far out.  Still, moving to a cheaper area might mean you can keep salaries close to where they are now but decrease expenses. 

nini01

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 03:44:55 PM »
I'm not US-based so I don't have a handle on all your expenses, but I will go through them and point out what stands out to me.

Expenses
Home:$1900
Autos $650 2.3 %  (loan. Amt includes extra principal payment i make)
How much is the car and how much do you owe?
TV& internet:$75 ( cable, streaming, internet)
Phone$100 ( two phone lines with sprint)
That's a lot, there quite a few threads out there that can help you get cheaper phone plans.
Insurance:$190
Totally depends on what's insured for this price. Car? Life insurance? All insurances?
Utilities:$55
Pet:$30
Kid activities $100 (soccer/girl scouts)
Food $350 (groceries)
Very reasonable for a family of 3. For more badassity, check out the groceries under $200 thread (family of 4!)
Gas $320(husband works all over the bay area)
That's a lot. What type of car do you have and what's the mileage? Any change you can get a better mileage car or an EV and reduce this?
Hair/nails: $65
Big face punch on this one. That's a ridiculous number. Should be halved overnight.
Gym $50( two memberships)
Reasonable
Braces/medical daughter $275
Ugh that's a lot, but I guess it's not preventable?
Entertainment $150 (movies, museums, themeparks)
How much do you get for this? Could you increase your amount of free entertainment? Considering that theme parks are mentioned as an example it sounds like you're visiting them too much. You've got the beach for free, right there :)
Eating out $250(restaurants and fast food)
Fast food shouldn't be a category as it's ideally eliminated for health reasons (+ it tastes awful). What type of restaurant spending is this? Date night? Dinners with friends? Convenience food?
Shopping$200 (clothes/shoes/personal care/beauty/home supplies, etc)
Way. Too. Much.
Misc $250
What kind of things are covered here? It's kind of high but it depends on what sort of 'one offs' you counted
Savings transfer $500-$1k (depending on the month)
That's a good start

I notice you have no vacation budget, is this part of the entertainment section or do you never travel? Especially as you mention family vacations. Maybe part of Misc?

Regarding the YOLO thoughts; I agree with you. We only live once and we should make most of it. Turns out, gel nails, beauty products and unlimited data phone plans aren't really what I consider 'living your best life'. Hence I ask for some categories 'what do you get for this money'. You love a certain restaurant and go for a date night once a month? Great! You eat at McDonalds every other day? Hmm, doesn't seem worth it. Figure out what your 'best life' looks like and see what categories of your spending align with that and which ones don't. That'll give you some insight on 'painless' cuts that you won't even miss.
Where to begin.
I think my entertainment/eating out budget have alot to do with daughters activities. We attend a few soccer games a year which we ended up eating out sometimes do to my schedule i am too tired too cook and husband will cook or we just order food.

I did not think my hair/nails budge was bad. I get my nails done about once every 5 weeks and go to a hair salon 2 or 3 times a year paying around $60-140 depending on what im getting done. I have decided to meet in the middle and go a darker on the hair which will mean i will end up spending less in the long run.

My vacation budget is included in Misc and in what i am saving. I usually put about $50-100 or more a month a side for vacations. Plus i do credit card churning and stay at hotels which can be paid with those points. I do a bit of surveys and ibotta kind a things and can easily do about $2k a year which we use for vacations also.

Gas is mostly spent by husband. His work vehicle is not mileage friendly and no he really can not get another. Gas in the bay area is also not cheap.

I know we can really cut down and save more. I am also aware that I am the one holding myself back with my YOLO attitude.

Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

nini01

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 03:54:03 PM »
Is relocation an option?  It sounds like your husband might be able to do his job anywhere, so depending on what you do, moving to a lower COL area might be an option.  You mention the Bay Area but your rent seems very low for that, so I'm guessing you are fairly far out.  Still, moving to a cheaper area might mean you can keep salaries close to where they are now but decrease expenses.
Relocation is not an option. I mean it could be but not something we want at all. My work is here and husband works in the SF bay area only.  My rent in cheap because we have an amazing landlord and we are trying to take advantage and save more. I live IN the bay area. Lets just say Facebook is about 15 min from my home. my  job provides not just a good pay but amazing benefits. Moving would mean me changing jobs plus paying for health insurance, paying after school care( my mother watches daughter for a few hours until we got of work), and husband commuting at least 2hrs to job plus and spend even more on gas. Plus our family is here and its something very very important to us that daughter grows up surrounded by family.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 04:18:05 PM »
If your rent is cheap and you’re in the Bay Area, don’t even think about buy. Save and invest. Read more MMM articles, hell, read them all, and get your husband to read them too, start with the most popular. Where you’re at, every dollar counts. True, YOLO, but that life isn’t ending tomorrow. You can still have a quality life while becoming more secure and an exceptional one once you are FI. Focus and make the changes necessary.

former player

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 04:33:33 PM »
Your husband's gas is very high: as it seems he is employed rather than working as a contractor, is it possible for him to get an allowance for gas from his employer?

Your job may be good on benefits but if the two of you together have an income of $72k then that is not particularly good pay for the Bay Area.  It's good that you are looking at cutting expenses and working out how to invest your money, but don't forget to look at opportunities for you to increase your earnings too.  For most people the argument against staying in the Bay Area is the high cost of housing which makes even the higher wages available there not an attractive proposition.  As you have more reasonable housing costs, you have the chance to make a big difference in your financial picture by getting the higher wages available in your locality.

nini01

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 04:40:42 PM »
If your rent is cheap and you’re in the Bay Area, don’t even think about buy. Save and invest. Read more MMM articles, hell, read them all, and get your husband to read them too, start with the most popular. Where you’re at, every dollar counts. True, YOLO, but that life isn’t ending tomorrow. You can still have a quality life while becoming more secure and an exceptional one once you are FI. Focus and make the changes necessary.

Yes although our goal is to buy a home we area also not looking to buy at the current prices. So we are saving saving until prices go down hopefully. I have been trying to read everything on here. There is a lot of information. I am the one who moves the money around and is always trying to figure out what to do or how to save. I keep husband in the loop of everything but he forgets but usually at nights we sit down about once or twice a month and just talk about life and finances and what we are saving for and working for. He tells me to stop going to Sephora ( which i have i promise) and I tell him to cut down on Amazon where he finds all the things he must have lol. But jokes aside we are trying to get everything in order now and save when we have the opportunity because we know that a home wil just mean bigger expenses and we want to be set up in other areas.

Freedomin5

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 05:38:08 PM »
Quote
Hair/nails: $65
Gym $50( two memberships)
Entertainment $150( movies, museums, themeparks)
Eating out $250(restaurants and fast food)
Shopping$200 (clothes/shoes/personal care/beauty/home supplies, etc )
Misc $250

You spend a good chunk of your money on unnecessary things. You live IN the Bay Area. DH lived there for a couple years and we didn’t spend as much as you do on entertainment. You have some lovely free parks and hiking trails at your doorstep. San Francisco also has tons of wonderful and free cultural activities. Why have a gym membership when you have mountains and ocean right there? SF was awesome when we lived there!

One way to make sure you don’t spend all your extra cash on stuff is to “pay yourself first”. Max out your retirement accounts. You’re only 30, so you’re still young, but you also don’t have much saved because you’re spending a good chunk of it on make up and nails and fast food. If you divert a good portion of each paycheck into your retirement accounts and simply don’t see the money hit your bank account, sometimes that makes it easier not to overspend. Our family income is quite a bit higher than yours, but we still employ the same strategy. My entire paycheck is deposited directly into the “investment” bank account, and we spend from a different bank account with DH’s paycheck. On payday, a portion of DH’s paycheck is transferred to the investment bank account and we live on whatever is left over. Basically, you can’t spend money that you can’t easily access.

With regard to busy schedules, DH is often not home due to work, which makes me a single working parent most of the week. It’s easy to just order pizza or food delivery. What works for me is to make my own frozen entrees. So about once a month, I’ll make a batch of pizza dough from scratch (which is super easy — recipe on allrecipes.com) and DD (age 5) and I will assemble several pizzas which we then freeze. On busy exhausting days, we pull out a homemade frozen pizza and dinner is ready in 15 minutes. Another strategy that has worked for us is using a pressure cooker with a timer setting. The evening before, I chop up a bunch of veggies and keep them in the fridge. In the morning, I throw everything in the pressure cooker, add water, and set the timer to start cooking an hour before I arrive home. By the time we arrive home, we have piping hot soup ready to eat. Throw in some pasta or noodles, boil for 10 minutes,  and we’re good to go. Leftovers go in the freezer.

If you can reduce the above expenses even by half, you’ll be saving an extra $5400 per year. You can do this!


jeroly

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 06:19:42 PM »
Yes there are lots of ways that you can cut back on your spending, and many if not most have already been addressed. However, in the big picture, you're doing great given that you're living on $72k/yr in the Bay Area.

The bigger issue is that $72k/yr for two people is only 20% over the minimum wage in San Francisco. You should be, assuming you both have college degrees, well capable of earning significantly more than that.  Start job hunting and do what's needed to boost that income. You may have good benefits but there are other jobs with good benefits out there, and in this economy you should be able to land two of em!

Hirondelle

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2019, 12:30:00 AM »
Where to begin.
I think my entertainment/eating out budget have alot to do with daughters activities. We attend a few soccer games a year which we ended up eating out sometimes do to my schedule i am too tired too cook and husband will cook or we just order food.

I did not think my hair/nails budge was bad. I get my nails done about once every 5 weeks and go to a hair salon 2 or 3 times a year paying around $60-140 depending on what im getting done. I have decided to meet in the middle and go a darker on the hair which will mean i will end up spending less in the long run.

My vacation budget is included in Misc and in what i am saving. I usually put about $50-100 or more a month a side for vacations. Plus i do credit card churning and stay at hotels which can be paid with those points. I do a bit of surveys and ibotta kind a things and can easily do about $2k a year which we use for vacations also.

Gas is mostly spent by husband. His work vehicle is not mileage friendly and no he really can not get another. Gas in the bay area is also not cheap.

I know we can really cut down and save more. I am also aware that I am the one holding myself back with my YOLO attitude.

Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

Thanks for the further clarifications! Yes, I think that with a bit more planning ahead (see Freedomin5's suggestions on food prep for busy days) you can certainly shave an extra $200-500/month (depending on how far you want to go) off and save that up.

Vacation budget sounds reasonable to me but now I'm a person that spends a ridiculous amount of money on overseas travel because it's my one 'YOLO' category.

Hair & nails probably totally depends on what you're used to. I think ANY nails budget is insane unless maybe an occasional visit for a special event (e.g. wedding). But I'm in a low-key environment where people don't care too much about appearance, both job and social circle/family wise. Going to a hairdresser 2-3 times a year isn't bad, but wow those prices?! What do you get done for that? Are these normal Bay Area prices or do you get some extensive treatments? My haircuts are usually $10-20 and yes, I'm a woman with long hair.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 08:09:20 AM by Hirondelle »

reeshau

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2019, 03:45:40 AM »
I have times where i crack down and tell the family no more spending on things like eating out or stuff we don't need but want. Then i go in to my phase of we only live once and I want to enjoy life and have vacations and fun times as a family.

Quote
I am usually less of a fast food more of a at home dinner but sometimes i have to many things scheduled that there is no time. We have definitely talked about this in the last months and this is a big one that we can and will cut down. We need to manage our time better so that we can also manage our money better.

Quote
Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

I think you are on the verge of a realization with these thoughts.  The first quote sounds like a kind of manic depression, and that will drive you nuts.  You can't go on a "starvation diet of fun."  But you also need to save for necessities.  You have these things listed out as a budget, but I get the feeling you don't really budget for them; you happen to find yourself in a situation of temptation / short on time / opportunity, and you make an impulsive decision.  You would do better to *actually* budget for this, as in: "OK gang, we have $50 this week for fun. (all the categories together)  What do we do with it?"  Spend some time up front thinking about the coming week or month, and if you then have a plan, as in "We will go out for family pizza night on Friday" then when you are confronted with "I'm too exhausted to cook after soccer practice" try to think of it as not costing you some money, but costing you pizza on Friday.  This keeps it an "apples vs. apples" comparison.

Also, savings must not be "what's left over."  As @Freedomin5 says, pay yourself first.  Budgeted savings goes into those accounts on payday, automatically if at all possible.  Then you are also reinforcing the budget decisions by staring your bank balance in the face.  It's a very powerful mind trick for many people who struggle with the things you are describing.

Linea_Norway

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 04:40:29 AM »
Going to a hairdresser 2-3 times a year isn't bad, but wow those prices?! What do you get done for that? Are these normal Bay Area prices or do you get some extensive treatments? My haircuts are usually $10-20 and yes, I'm a woman with long hair.

Where I live, a cheap woman's hair cut, just wash and normal cut, no colouring, costs 70$. I think you live in a very cheap area.

To the OP: Start batch cooking. Whenever you cook at home, make double or triple portions and freeze them for some other time. Mark with date and content and eat it within (half) a year. Another alternative is to have commercial easy food accessible in your freezer, like bags of vegetable, meat and rice. I find them a bit expensive, but it is still cheaper than eating out.

Your nails you can do yourself. Or just leave them naturally.

For entertainment, is it an option to buy a museum year pass? Would that be cheaper on a yearly basis? And let your children (and yourself) get used to visiting the outdoors instead of visiting amusement parks.

Also, when you are visiting a park, a museum or the beach, plan ahead and bring along food and drinks. So you don't need to buy it over there.

CrustyBadger

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 05:41:39 AM »
Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

nini, something I do to help with planning ahead is to always think about the meal I will make when i write a sports or scout event on the calendar.

For example, after an all morning swim meet I'm always wiped out from sitting out in the heat all morning and the long drive back and it is just too easy to pick up something for takeout on the way home.   Wo when I write on the calendar Saturday "Away Swim meet 7:30 - 1:00 PM" I also add -- Soup and turkey sandwiches.   So at some point before, I actually make the sandwiches and make sure I have some soup and chips on hand. 

Then when the overwhelmed feeling shows up at 1 PM and I'm tempted to do drive through, I remember I really have everything I need almost ready to go at home.

Nick_Miller

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2019, 09:04:33 AM »
On these case studies, I try to focus on 2 or 3 big things as opposed to analyzing a dozen different ways to save smaller amounts. I just think the later can be overwhelming...

OP, you would be in much better shape if you address housing, transportation, and jobs. I mean, that's 80% of my concern reading this.

1) Housing - as someone else said, you're getting a really low rate; but what happens when that stops?? Can you sign a long-term lease?? I would strongly consider that if you can. You're nowhere near able to buy real estate in SF anyway. If your rent gets jacked up even by 20% or so, you're screwed.

2) Transportation - I'd really consider selling that car. It's killing you.

3) Jobs - you're both working full-time and you're averaging $36K gross for each of you in one of the most expensive cities in the US? I'd strongly suggest either finding additional jobs (short-term maybe?) or really looking for career growth (needed long-term to succeed). To me, this is by far the biggest wildcard, although 1) is damn close.

Villanelle

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2019, 09:12:06 AM »
Is relocation an option?  It sounds like your husband might be able to do his job anywhere, so depending on what you do, moving to a lower COL area might be an option.  You mention the Bay Area but your rent seems very low for that, so I'm guessing you are fairly far out.  Still, moving to a cheaper area might mean you can keep salaries close to where they are now but decrease expenses.
Relocation is not an option. I mean it could be but not something we want at all. My work is here and husband works in the SF bay area only.  My rent in cheap because we have an amazing landlord and we are trying to take advantage and save more. I live IN the bay area. Lets just say Facebook is about 15 min from my home. my  job provides not just a good pay but amazing benefits. Moving would mean me changing jobs plus paying for health insurance, paying after school care( my mother watches daughter for a few hours until we got of work), and husband commuting at least 2hrs to job plus and spend even more on gas. Plus our family is here and its something very very important to us that daughter grows up surrounded by family.

Why would moving mean paying for health insurance?  If you don't want to move, fine, but it's an option, and frankly you are unlikely to ever buy a house in yrou area.  Prices may come down, but to the point that you can afford one on $72k/yr? 

And why would your husband need to commute two hours?  The whole point of relocating would be to go to a place where you both find jobs--you with health insurance and him with a reasonable commute.  If you would consider moving, the world (or at the very least the entire US) is your oyster, so go where you find jobs.  "Relocate" doesn't mean "new house in the same basic area".  It means starting a wide job search and moving to where ever you find a good situation--which in your case would include health benefits and a reasonable commute.   Frankly, you make shit money for being in the heart of the Bay area.  It's hard to imagine you couldn't make at least as much in a significantly cheaper area.  You might also look in to a side hustle. 

If being surrounded by family is the Most Important Thing, great.  It's good that you know your priorities.  But you will have to face the fact that you will likely never own a home in the heart of the Bay Area.  You also need to be prepared for your sweet deal on rent to evaporate someday, either because your landlord sells (or dies) or because he decides to start charging FMV, assuming you aren't rent-controlled.  But even if that doesn't happen any time soon, by choosing that one priority--family nearby--then you have to make some other cuts if you want to make progress.  Remembering to pack food, cooking even when you are tired (prep some freezer meals so you always have something easy available), making your own coffee at home ALWAYS, and other sacrifices are what buy you the ability to raise your child near family.  Remind yourself of that every time you are tempted.  "I am giving up Starbucks on Sundays in order to keep myself and my kid close to family.  That's far more important than fancy coffee."

Also, just stop getting your nails done.  Completely unnecessary extravagance. 

nini01

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2019, 09:27:08 AM »
let me begin by just thanking everyone who has replied. Good or bad trust me i take it all in. i will try and answer your questions and comments.

When i listed expenses it is not expenses i budget for but more what i actually end up spending almost every month. Some are obviously budgeted because i know the exact amount like rent, utilities etc. but others like nails, food and shopping i do not have an actual budget but i do keep a mental note on what we are spending. So i think creating a budget would be my next step and would probably help a lot.

So i see all the nail and hair comments. People who do not wear makeup or get their nails done don't get it and i understand that. Some people do not want to do all that. Some will say they dont "need" it to look presentable. And yes i agree that a women does not need to wear make up and have their hair styled to look presentable but that is just who i am i love wearing makeup and having my hair done. Not for family or social circle but for myself. I have a ton of hair and short hair just does not look good on me so a hair cut is always $45+ . I had already decided a few months ago that i was going darker on the hair for less maintenance.
I have times where i crack down and tell the family no more spending on things like eating out or stuff we don't need but want. Then i go in to my phase of we only live once and I want to enjoy life and have vacations and fun times as a family.

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I am usually less of a fast food more of a at home dinner but sometimes i have to many things scheduled that there is no time. We have definitely talked about this in the last months and this is a big one that we can and will cut down. We need to manage our time better so that we can also manage our money better.

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Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

I think you are on the verge of a realization with these thoughts.  The first quote sounds like a kind of manic depression, and that will drive you nuts.  You can't go on a "starvation diet of fun."  But you also need to save for necessities.  You have these things listed out as a budget, but I get the feeling you don't really budget for them; you happen to find yourself in a situation of temptation / short on time / opportunity, and you make an impulsive decision.  You would do better to *actually* budget for this, as in: "OK gang, we have $50 this week for fun. (all the categories together)  What do we do with it?"  Spend some time up front thinking about the coming week or month, and if you then have a plan, as in "We will go out for family pizza night on Friday" then when you are confronted with "I'm too exhausted to cook after soccer practice" try to think of it as not costing you some money, but costing you pizza on Friday.  This keeps it an "apples vs. apples" comparison.

Also, savings must not be "what's left over."  As @Freedomin5 says, pay yourself first.  Budgeted savings goes into those accounts on payday, automatically if at all possible.  Then you are also reinforcing the budget decisions by staring your bank balance in the face.  It's a very powerful mind trick for many people who struggle with the things you are describing.
You are correct in that i do not budget and i also don't say ok we have $50 what can we do. We just do it. Like i previously said budget is on the list for what i need to do. I actually do transfer $500 to our savings every month. After paying everything at the end of the month i transfer whats left over to our savings. So yes i still could be saving a bit more.

Your husband's gas is very high: as it seems he is employed rather than working as a contractor, is it possible for him to get an allowance for gas from his employer?

Your job may be good on benefits but if the two of you together have an income of $72k then that is not particularly good pay for the Bay Area. 

So i will clear up a bit on this. Husband is an employee he is working on getting his own contracting license and has a test coming up later this month. I make $4k a month post tax with and my employer pays our health insurance. Husband makes  at least $2000-$3500 plus an extra $10-15k a year on side jobs. He has projects through out the year but sometimes they are spaced out or do to weather/holidays have to be postponed. If it is any easier ill say for 2017 we made $82k and for 2018 $90k. I do not like counting money i do not have which is why i just go with the amount i know he is actually making.

Husband has had a talk with his employer and let him know that he has the vehicle he has because he needs him to carry many tools and work related items. If he is not going to hep out with gas he will sell the vehicle and get a much more economical one. His boss will give him $100 here and there but sometimes "forgets" so he said he will talk to him about it.
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Hair/nails: $65
Gym $50( two memberships)
Entertainment $150( movies, museums, themeparks)
Eating out $250(restaurants and fast food)
Shopping$200 (clothes/shoes/personal care/beauty/home supplies, etc )
Misc $250

You spend a good chunk of your money on unnecessary things. You live IN the Bay Area. DH lived there for a couple years and we didn’t spend as much as you do on entertainment. You have some lovely free parks and hiking trails at your doorstep. San Francisco also has tons of wonderful and free cultural activities. Why have a gym membership when you have mountains and ocean right there? SF was awesome when we lived there!

One way to make sure you don’t spend all your extra cash on stuff is to “pay yourself first”. Max out your retirement accounts. You’re only 30, so you’re still young, but you also don’t have much saved because you’re spending a good chunk of it on make up and nails and fast food. If you divert a good portion of each paycheck into your retirement accounts and simply don’t see the money hit your bank account, sometimes that makes it easier not to overspend. Our family income is quite a bit higher than yours, but we still employ the same strategy. My entire paycheck is deposited directly into the “investment” bank account, and we spend from a different bank account with DH’s paycheck. On payday, a portion of DH’s paycheck is transferred to the investment bank account and we live on whatever is left over. Basically, you can’t spend money that you can’t easily access.

With regard to busy schedules, DH is often not home due to work, which makes me a single working parent most of the week. It’s easy to just order pizza or food delivery. What works for me is to make my own frozen entrees. So about once a month, I’ll make a batch of pizza dough from scratch (which is super easy — recipe on allrecipes.com) and DD (age 5) and I will assemble several pizzas which we then freeze. On busy exhausting days, we pull out a homemade frozen pizza and dinner is ready in 15 minutes. Another strategy that has worked for us is using a pressure cooker with a timer setting. The evening before, I chop up a bunch of veggies and keep them in the fridge. In the morning, I throw everything in the pressure cooker, add water, and set the timer to start cooking an hour before I arrive home. By the time we arrive home, we have piping hot soup ready to eat. Throw in some pasta or noodles, boil for 10 minutes,  and we’re good to go. Leftovers go in the freezer.

If you can reduce the above expenses even by half, you’ll be saving an extra $5400 per year. You can do this!



Thanks for the positive reinforcement.
Entertainment is not something i budget for and say this month i will spend $100 on it. entertainment just ends up happening. We are a very active family and definitely take advantage of the beaches and parks, free museums and all the stuff SF has to offer. All though some of those free stuff come with a parking fee. Entertainment is usually spent spontaneously. We will go watch a Stanford women's soccer team or the SJ earthquakes which doesn't cost much but then we will buy some food to share and it all obviously adds up.

In regards to food i do know that its a big one i need to watch. I do cook a lot and leftovers are used as lunch for the next day. And over the years husband has learned how to make more things than just his one or two meals so he does help out a lot. I think weekly planning will be something i need to do.



Things i must do.
Budget.
Plan for meals.
Budget
Save more
Read about where to start saving
How do I even add money to my 401K?
Nails will now be every 8 weeks
im sure more will be added.



SunnyDays

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2019, 01:16:03 PM »
So, you can't paint your own nails?  Polish is like 4 bucks a bottle and lasts a long time.  Or have you gotten suckered into the gel thing where you have to keep doing it or your nails look like crap until they recover?  And you could colour your own hair and just get it cut at a salon.  Repeat after me:  "Staying near family and buying a house are more important than looking fancy!"  Best of luck!

Linea_Norway

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2019, 01:40:32 PM »
And about makeup: there is functional makeup and fancy makeup. Try to find the cheaper alternatives and make sure you don't pay the high price just for: because I'm worth it (from a commersial that I saw many years ago). You can only spend your money once, makeup/nails or retire earlier.

jeroly

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2019, 02:28:43 PM »
Gross Salary/Wages: We make about $6000 a month
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If it is any easier ill say for 2017 we made $82k and for 2018 $90k.
1.  Do you not understand the difference between Gross and net salary?  Your gross salary for 2018 was $7500/month, not $6000.  Still, that's about half the median salary for San Francisco for college graduates and you should focus your energy on both of you getting higher paying jobs.
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I do not like counting money
Which do you dislike more, counting money or working for an extra twenty years?  If the latter, get a-countin' pronto.

Here are some follow up suggestions:

- Stop acting like a Disney princess and paint your own freaking nails instead of throwing your money down a nail salon toilet, or better yet, grow up and stop being the painted lady from the circus altogether.

- Shop around for cheaper car insurance.  If you can't get cheaper, see how much you can save by cutting back on deductibles, coverages, etc.

- If you're paying that much for your car you have too much car.  Sell the clown car and buy a cheap but functioning six-to-ten-year-old car.


Freedomin5

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2019, 04:16:10 PM »
There’s no need to get nasty and make fun of people by calling them names, even though your points may be valid.

Yes, OP’s and her DH’s salaries are low for the Bay Area and they should work on getting higher paying jobs. Yes, they should be more aware of their spending and take better note of their finances. I believe that is why OP is here on the forums. And also why OP has already stated that budgeting and planning are important for their family, as most of their expenses just sort of happen without much careful thought. I think if they simply started increasing the amount they pay themselves first, budget, and plan meals before going out to events, it will help them to tighten up their spending.

Then they can focus on equally important issues that may require longer-term planning, such as figuring out a backup plan for their housing situation and getting higher paying jobs.

Your other suggestions about car insurance and replacing current gas guzzler with a more economical car are good.


Awesomeness

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2019, 06:52:12 PM »
If you don’t mind would you elaborate on your side hustle?  You mentioned making a couple grand a year from surveys etc.  I have room for something like that, I’d appreciate more info. Thanks.

Don’t get flustered w the hair and nails comments. Sheesh people chill.

My daughter loves it and I could learn from her. She did break her nail salon habit and does them herself, it looks just as good and is healthier.  But it’s very time consuming and took a long time for her nails to get healthy again. And on the hair, let’s face it women are just more expensive and need good haircuts. I go monthly and spend 40$ each time. I’m 48 and don’t color my hair, it was 100$ more when I did. No way I’m going out and about w a bad haircut and no makeup? It doesn’t take much but there’s a balance here. It’s a slippery slope at my age and I prefer to stay in the crowd that takes care of themselves.

Nick_Miller

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2019, 07:59:00 AM »
Again, the things that move the meter are losing the car payment, upgrading jobs, and locking in that low rent for as long a term as is possible.

All of this talk about hair and makeup is a relatively small issue, and I concur that the tone has been unnecessarily harsh. Face-punching is supposed to be based on math, considering options, etc., not ad hominem attacks.

red_pill

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2019, 02:01:29 PM »

You are correct in that i do not budget and i also don't say ok we have $50 what can we do. We just do it. Like i previously said budget is on the list for what i need to do. I actually do transfer $500 to our savings every month. After paying everything at the end of the month i transfer whats left over to our savings. So yes i still could be saving a bit more.


You are literally doing it backwards.  Instead of saving whatever is left, identify your savings goal and put that away on pay day.  Then go spend the rest guilt free - you have achieved your goal.  No budget needed.  I swear it is like magic - you won't even miss the money and will probably forget you are putting it away if you automate it. 

The other budget strategy for non-budget people is to pay cash for everything.  Seriously, on payday calculate all your fixed expenses and leave that amount in your account, put your savings away, and then take your spending money out in cash. That's cash is what you have to do all your miscellaneous stuff - hair, nails, clothes, going out to eat, amusement parks, movies - everything (we pay cash for everything but groceries and gas).  Trust me when I say it's way different spending $50 by tapping a card than it is taking the cold, hard cash out of your wallet and handing it over.  It's more tangible.  You feel the hurt more.

I know, I know, "but I churn credit cards and I won't earn my points".  Let me ask you - who do you think pays for those points? The retailer!  And they happily do it because they know you'll spend way more on a card than with cash.  In the end, they win by offering those points. And you lose.  Sure using your card you might charge $1,000 to earn $20 worth of points, but if you used cash you wouldn't spend $1,000; you'll probably spend more like $600.  It's just the way your brain works.   

Plus, going cash eliminates the need to budget into a bunch of different categories.  Well, you could still do that, but you don't seem the type that would actually do it, so don't worry about it.  Just put all the cash in your wallet and survive until next pay day. (Oh, and how do you deal with spending on things that only use credit cards for like an Amazon purchase?  We put that amount of cash into a jar and then roll it into the next week's allowance.  Not sure if that makes sense).

Anyway, automated savings that happen at the first of the month (you could set that up in 5 minutes), and cash budget.  Give it a try for two months and you'll see.   Good luck!

Yanisimo

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2019, 02:17:12 PM »
I recommend reading as many MMM articles as you can. Sit down with your spouse and create realistic savings goals. Do that this weekend. You strike me as a person who talks about how she wants to change her life, but she's all talk and no action. So make sure you take action NOW. I agree with red_pill - pay yourself first. Put money into savings as soon as you get paid, and then you can spend what is left.

meandmyfamily

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 06:06:01 PM »
I think you are doing a great job taking this first step.  All the MMM articles inspired me and so did reading https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Path-Wealth-financial-independence/dp/1533667926/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=The+Simple+guide+to+wealth&qid=1562976094&s=gateway&sr=8-3

The Simple Path to Wealth will help you with exactly the steps you need to take.  Another thing that motivated me was to have 1 month with no eating out.  It helped to put my priorities in order.  Then maybe another month with zero spending in the entertainment category.  Get the entire family involved and get creative.  It can be fun and motivating and anybody can do it for a month.  Put the money you saved directly into your Roth IRA or 401k.  This really can be eye opening.

Also how much to you owe on your vehicle?  Either sell it or pay it off ASAP and invest that amount every month.  That would be a huge start!  In no time you will be putting $1,000 or more a month into investments.  Wouldn't  that feel great?

Keep reading.  Remember this board has a very specific focus with lots of great ideas but people are serious.  You got this! 

onward19

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2019, 09:15:26 AM »
Half of my YOLO decisions are based on not having planned ahead. The other on actual experiences and things of value. I think with planning ahead i will for sure end up saving more and having less of these eating outs.

nini, something I do to help with planning ahead is to always think about the meal I will make when i write a sports or scout event on the calendar.

For example, after an all morning swim meet I'm always wiped out from sitting out in the heat all morning and the long drive back and it is just too easy to pick up something for takeout on the way home.   Wo when I write on the calendar Saturday "Away Swim meet 7:30 - 1:00 PM" I also add -- Soup and turkey sandwiches.   So at some point before, I actually make the sandwiches and make sure I have some soup and chips on hand. 

Then when the overwhelmed feeling shows up at 1 PM and I'm tempted to do drive through, I remember I really have everything I need almost ready to go at home.
 
 This really, really works. I don't remember to do it often enough, but it always pays off to plan ahead for meals this way. A slow cooker meal would be another possibility here. Also a cooler in the car with fresh ice water and a snack to help carry you through until you get home.

doingfine

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2019, 09:30:34 AM »
How much of that $650 car payment is extra principle? You may want to cut that back if you could instead be increasing other long-term investment goals. If you could instead put that money in a Roth IRA or 401k, that's probably a better use.

Of the things you list, the automotive costs are far and away your biggest drain. You are spending nearly 20% of your gross income on your car - and that's not including any maintenance or repair costs, which have to be costly if you are spending over $300/month on fuel! Changing your perspective such that you are ok with driving older vehicles with no car payment and much lower insurance cost is the largest single impact you can make to your finances in the short term. Cars and housing are the killer costs for most people. Your housing isn't bad considering your location. The car is.

Tuskalusa

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2019, 10:00:10 AM »
Hi nini101. Fellow Bay Area dweller here. Just wanted to chime in and say that I think you are doing a great job staying within your means in a very expensive area. Lots of folks around here struggle with a ton of debt when incomes are lower that a lot of the Silicon Valley types. You have found a way to make things work, and now you’re looking to grow from there. That’s commendable.

A lot of this has been said, but here’s my take:

Start with the easy stuff first. Check out Cricket wireless to get your phone plans down. They run on the ATT network, so service is good around here.  Make your coffee at home for those game days. Consider getting an Instant pot to quickly cook dinners. These things can create some “small wins” and save some time & money.

Next level.  Deal with the car. Honestly, depending on the balance, I’d consider just paying it off with savings and then driving it for the next 10 years.  The trick would be to then use that freed up cash for investments (like maxing our retirements plans) items and life insurance.

After you get some basics down, that brings us to income.  You sound pretty amazing. It might be worth looking around to see if you could find something that pays a little higher and maintains solid benefits. Or you could talk to your employer about growing your job. Fir your husband, there are tons of construction firms in the Bay that pay solid salaries and benefits. Can he target some new positions.

You’ve done a great job starting out here. Really impressive in the valley. News the time to ramp up your income and investments. Rock on!

Villanelle

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Re: don't even know where to start planning
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2019, 11:53:08 AM »
I get wanting to wear makeup.  You don't need to justify why that is.  I understand feeling that going to the nail salon is relaxing and that the bit of pampering is enjoyable.

And if you are happy with your life and finances they way they are, great.  In that case, keep doing everything you are doing, and there's nothing to talk about.

But your finances are all over the place.  It's not even clear to me that you know exactly how much money you bring in and where it goes.  It's not clear to me what your goals are.  It's not clear to me what your priorities are?  Is it clear to you?  if so, what are the answers to these things.

You've said you won't move because having your kids grow up around family is super important.  Okay, cook.  That's a sacred cow then.  Nothing wrong with that; we all have them.  But hair and nails are also non-negotiables now?  And you don't want to (or maybe aren't willing to) prepare meals ahead of time.  You can't sell a car.  You can't be firm with DH's employer about gas.  (I still don't fully understand your husband's gas situation.  If he's driving for work on behalf of his employer, he need to be paid for that).

It sees like you want your finances to be different, but you have reasons (some of which are completely valid) why you can't change most of the things in your life.  So maybe it's time to have a serious look at yourself.  What do you want more?  Hair and nails and the Bay area with family and nice cars and to not cook when you are tired,  and to buy a home, and...?  Or different finances?  You can't have both.