Author Topic: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?  (Read 2649 times)

APBioSpartan

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Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« on: February 27, 2018, 08:50:36 AM »
Take it easy on me... filling this out made me realize how little I know about taxes and that I need to track my expenses at a more detailed level.  I can make updates if I screwed anything up royally.  May be best to look at the numbers as a guide :)

My wife and I are looking to purchase a home in the next couple of years and have kids so I wanted to make sure that we are on track and see where we can improve.  Thank you in advance for your review. 

Life Situation:
     -IRS filing status: Married
     -Age: 26/25 (Me, SO)
     -Location: Western North Carolina, M/H(ish) COL area

Gross Salary/Wages (2018):
     -Me: $73,440 base + ~3% bonus
     -SO: $92,500 base + ~5% bonus
     -Side Hustle: ~$400/month, so $4,800 annual
     -Total: $170,740/yr. ++

Adjusted Gross Income (2017):
    -$139,217 (2017)

Taxes: Federal, state/local, and FICA (2017). 
     -Federal: $21,362
     -State: $6,693

Current expenses (2017 to the best of my ability):
     -Rent: $1,300/mo - affords us a pretty nice place, but nothing over the top.  We can walk most places and are 3 miles from SO's work. 
     -Spending (spent roughly $40,000 on our credit cards in 2017)
     -Ballpark $55,600/yr. for expenses?

Unfortunately, we don't currently track our expenses (I know... face punches), so my year end CC statement is the best that I have.  We pay off our card every other week and charge everything through it for points. Here are some random recurring expenses:
     -Cell Phone: $85/mo (I hate verizion... I really do... but we live in the middle of the mountains so I tell myself that I need the best coverage available)
     -Electricity: $60-70/mo
     -Car Insurance: $70/mo
     -Renters Insurance + wedding ring coverage: $21.70/mo (required by apartment)

Assets: Amount & description:
     Emergency Fund/Beginning of a house down payment: $8,000.00 in a savings account
     Investments:
          -401k (me) $53,698.39 - Vngd Index/Mid/Small
          -ESPP (me) $1,107.68 (always sell after purchase)
          -Roth (me) $18,569.91 - 100% VTSAX
          -Roth (so) $11,203.64 - 100% VTSAX
     
     -Total: $92,580.15

Liabilities:
     -Student Loans: $0 - paid off $63,000 (yay!)
     -Car Loan: $15,317.41 @ 4.75%, we share this car

Specific Question(s): As mentioned above, my wife and I would like to save for a home in our current area, which will unfortunately cost us around $350,000 - $450,000 for a decent starter home.  We would also like to start a family soon so we want to make sure that we are on track for financial success.  I struggle daily with my priorities, whether that be "it would be so cool to hit the 100k investment mark!" vs. "Man.. it would be nice to be completely debt free." vs. "But... I still have a crap ton to save for a down payment on a house."  Would love any input from those that are more experienced!

We don't really have a FI goal date at this time as we are a bit new/still overwhelmed by the volume of changes in life, but hopefully we will have some guesstimate soon. 

« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:59:26 AM by APBioSpartan »

Ben Kurtz

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 11:20:29 AM »
Well done paying off that student loan!

I'm not a fan of owning cars that cost well into the five figures, especially before one reaches millionaire status, so on the next couple of months I'd suggest your looking into selling your current set of wheels, retiring the loan, and replacing it with something that costs $9,000 or less. A seven year old Camry or similar would fit the bill nicely -- even big enough for a couple of kids in baby seats in the back. You can clearly "afford" (= make payments on) the fancier car you have now, but if you run the numbers you'd be shocked at how much of a wealth drain it is to buy new cars on a regular basis. Get a leg up and go frugal on your wheels. This will also make you 100% debt free, which is an awesome feeling. Try it sometime.

Beyond the car, $40,000 in non-housing spending for a childless couple in a medium cost of living area (Western NC is not NYC or SF by any stretch, so it isn't a HCOL area) probably hides an additional $5,000 to $10,000 of easy fat to trim -- whether it's finally giving another wireless carrier a try, looking more carefully at your food budget and mindless Starbucks habits, and similar. At your income level it is less about being as thoroughly spartan as possible and more about making sure that your spending really does improve your life, and cutting out those things which cost money but don't improve things all that much.

My usual advice to young couples starting out is not to rush into buy a house too soon. Even with a starter house, which you don't think you're keeping forever, you should plan on staying put for 5 to 10 years to make the transaction costs of buying worthwhile. Until you have one kid and know whether you will have more, you run the risk of buying the wrong house in the wrong neighborhood which can be costly.

Your family income puts you will inside the 22% federal tax bracket, plus the 5.5% NC state tax bracket, so I'd say it is more than worthwhile to max out deductible 401k contributions at each spouse's workplace before putting away any other form of savings. After that, you're looking at amassing a $60,000 to $80,000 down payment fund, plus any emergency funds on top. I'm a big fan of maxing out Roth IRA contributions and then contributing to a short-dated muni fund in a taxable account for emergency savings and house fund. Depending on your goals and timing you can invest the Roth contributions in bond funds to serve as stealth house-fund savings -- because you can always pull out Roth contributions tax and penalty free (but not earnings). In case you don't end up using the Roth funds you've preserved useful space inside a tax protected account and can then reallocate to a retirement portfolio; in case you need the money it is there without much hassle or loss. One way I like to cut it is to deem the cash in the taxable account to be the house fund, and the bond investments in the Roth to be the emergency fund. When you buy the house you completely drain your free cash in your taxable space and then pray that an emergency doesn't strike while you rebuild a taxable emergency fund to protect the Roth. But if disaster strikes, you can tap into the Roth without tax or penalty if you really need to.

Beyond all that, you are young enough to really start thinking about what shape you want your life to take. You've clearly made a lot of progress in a short period of time, landing jobs that provide a good income and using the income sensibly to improve your balance sheet. I usually suggest that people who are minded to have children start sooner rather than later, once you're at or past your mid-20s, because it doesn't get any easier when you are older and more worn out. It will slow your march towards building enough savings to achieve financial freedom (between a parent cutting work to watch the children, or paying professionals to do the same); but even so, a happy family and financial freedom inside of about 10 years are both within your grasp if you put your mind to it.

Finally, before you have your children, budget a bit for those "now-or-never" experiences -- a big trip to Europe or South Africa, or a course or a skilled hobby you might not have time for later, like scuba or flying lessons. I'd suggest strongly resisting the urge to buy gear and equipment and toys if you do something like that, which will just bog you down, and instead focus on an experience or intangible skill that will stay with you, and which you can revisit once your children are school aged and you've retired a millionaire before age 40. 

rockstache

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 11:32:59 AM »
Hello and welcome! It's hard to give you any input without having your spending numbers. Sign up for YNAB/Mint/Personal Capital and find out where it's going.

Good news: You make a lot of money.
Bad news: You don't know what's happening to it.

Common mustachian wisdom is going to say to ditch the car loan and buy an older car outright. That loan isn't exactly high interest, but it's definitely costing you.

Are you maxing your 401k? Does your SO have access to one? I'd be maxing them (traditional, not Roth if available) to lower your AGI.

No one can help you choose your priorities, but IMO if house/kids are in the cards for you, now is the time to really really buckle down on your current expenses. Throw every spare cent into retirement because you'll have compound interest on your side, and if you have anything left after the retirement accounts are maxed, then start the house savings.



This part is my opinion only (and very situation dependent), so take with a grain of salt: a 'starter home' isn't usually a great deal, especially if you live in it for a short-ish period of time, because you lose money on sellers fees etc. A better idea might be to live in a small, cheap rental until you are ready to buy a more permanent home, and know exactly what you want.



ETA: Cross posted with Ben Kurtz and maybe said some of the same stuff.

APBioSpartan

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 01:56:54 PM »
Common mustachian wisdom is going to say to ditch the car loan and buy an older car outright. That loan isn't exactly high interest, but it's definitely costing you.

Are you maxing your 401k? Does your SO have access to one? I'd be maxing them (traditional, not Roth if available) to lower your AGI.

I do agree that the car is expensive and have toyed with returning it, but it's a 2015 Honda Fit that we bought for $16,000 (very recently) with only 23,000 miles on it.  Our hope is that it will last for a very (very) long time which would justify the cost in the long run.  The reason that we financed it was so that at the time we could keep our cash flow going towards our student loans.  It also has a few other perks like being covered under a certified pre-owned warranty which has already saved me a few hundred. 

I am maxing out both my 401k and Roth at the moment.  My wife is currently maxing her Roth, but is not eligible for her 401k until next month (we plan on maxing that too).  Up until recently, we shoveled all of our extra "cash" towards our student loans, but now that they are gone I don't have a set goal which causes the priority mania mentioned above. 

Totally agree on the long-term home.  When I said "starter home", I meant more a mid-range home that we plan on staying in long term.  There are cheaper options, but a lot of these mountain homes can be a little gross :)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 02:18:11 PM by APBioSpartan »

APBioSpartan

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 02:06:04 PM »
Well done paying off that student loan!

Thank you!  I can't tell you how badly I wanted them to go away

Beyond the car, $40,000 in non-housing spending for a childless couple in a medium cost of living area (Western NC is not NYC or SF by any stretch, so it isn't a HCOL area) probably hides an additional $5,000 to $10,000 of easy fat to trim -- whether it's finally giving another wireless carrier a try, looking more carefully at your food budget and mindless Starbucks habits, and similar. At your income level it is less about being as thoroughly spartan as possible and more about making sure that your spending really does improve your life, and cutting out those things which cost money but don't improve things all that much.

Yeah, for sure!  Admittedly, I added an extra $5,000 to the value listed on my statement to try and account for cash transactions & other exceptions (I'm a conservative planner :P)  Our spending was also a little bit inflated due to a few big purchases like a new bed and some office furniture for my relatively new WFH position.  GoogleFi is definitely on my radar when my current phone is "paid off". 

Finally, before you have your children, budget a bit for those "now-or-never" experiences -- a big trip to Europe or South Africa, or a course or a skilled hobby you might not have time for later, like scuba or flying lessons. I'd suggest strongly resisting the urge to buy gear and equipment and toys if you do something like that, which will just bog you down, and instead focus on an experience or intangible skill that will stay with you, and which you can revisit once your children are school aged and you've retired a millionaire before age 40.

Great advice and I'm glad that you said this.  My wife and I are hoping to go to Iceland this year and rent a camper van to keep costs low.  Agree that this is very important!  Actually, this is also one of the reasons that we moved to Western North Carolina!

MDM

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 03:40:35 PM »
Take it easy on me... filling this out made me realize how little I know about taxes and that I need to track my expenses at a more detailed level.
We all didn't know this stuff until we did.  Good for you for getting started!  And yes, there is value collecting this info - responses are a bonus!

Quote
Gross Salary/Wages (2018):
     -Me: $73,440 base + ~3% bonus
     -SO: $92,500 base + ~5% bonus
     -Side Hustle: ~$400/month, so $4,800 annual
     -Total: $170,740/yr. ++

Adjusted Gross Income (2017):
    -$139,217 (2017)

Taxes: Federal, state/local, and FICA (2017). 
     -Federal: $21,362
     -State: $6,693
Those appear to be in the right ballpark - maybe you know more about taxes than you think?!

Quote
Specific Question(s): As mentioned above, my wife and I would like to save for a home in our current area, which will unfortunately cost us around $350,000 - $450,000 for a decent starter home.  We would also like to start a family soon so we want to make sure that we are on track for financial success.  I struggle daily with my priorities, whether that be "it would be so cool to hit the 100k investment mark!" vs. "Man.. it would be nice to be completely debt free." vs. "But... I still have a crap ton to save for a down payment on a house."  Would love any input from those that are more experienced!
Where to put "saving for a home" has no clear answer.  See Investment Order for generic suggestions.  Good luck!

MountainTown

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Re: Case Study: 26 - First Home/Kids in the next few years?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 11:00:02 PM »
Following as I am in sorta same situation but a little bit older and not killing it like you on the income side. Also live in a mountain town so I understand your angst with real estate...I am in the west though.

Like I said I am in the same boat wondering how to prioritize so no clear answers for you. I do like that you are maxing out your 401k's and I think those Roth's serve a great dual purpose of either being there for a down payment or for a sweet retirement. Any extra I would probably stuff away towards debt so I could just cash flow more in life. Good job sharing the car. We did that for awhile too. We recently bought an SUV as I had too many mountain sports which required AWD in the winter. Honestly it was hard to let go of our old beater because it just is so darn cheap and we have permanent plates on it. Sounds like that's what you are going through with your car. I disagree with other posters. $16000 between two people is not a crazy car. Sure you could get a 7 year old Camry or I guess you could just buckle down and payoff this one...depends how much you like the car.

Like I said since you guys share a car I think you are doing better than most and there are transactional costs and time costs to shopping for a new car. A Honda Fit is a nice efficient car. I don't think you're nuts but hey if you wanna make another sacrifice so you can pay cash for that Iceland trip or sock away another $7000 into cash then go for it.

Good job balancing all the priorities out there. It's not easy. I followed the DR plan when I started out on my finances and in a way I am grateful for that simplicity...but obviously I lost out on lots of investment opportunity per DR advice. That being said I think I would kick what I could at debt right now. Having cashflow is really nice and your interest rate isn't stellar or anything.

Good luck, congrats on the new family planning, and fun trip planned. You guys are doing incredible for your age--I am impressed.