Author Topic: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend  (Read 7556 times)

george78

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Hi everyone,

I'm a longtime lurker of the forum and have been a somewhat relaxed Mustachian for about 4-5 years now. I'll get right on with it:

(Apologies for not following the style guide, but I don't think that necessarily fits my question.)

I'm a 30-year-old living in a large city in the U.S. I make about 75k a year. I have no debt and about 160k in assets spread across various retirement and investment accounts. Due to a rather unique situation, I live in a large home outside of the large city, all by my lonesome. As a caretaker of sorts, I live close to rent free. My expenses total about 250-300/month, factoring in utilities and the odd repair once or twice a year. It takes me about an hour to get to/from my office job, but I take a commuter train for the majority of it (40 minutes), which isn't so bad but sometimes it surely does seem pretty awful.

Where I've recently run into some issues is with my girlfriend, who I've been seeing for almost a year now. She's a year younger than me and is working towards her PhD. She lives in the large city, about a 25-minute walk from where I work, and pays $1150 to share a room in a two bedroom place. Her mom owns the place, and my girlfriend rents out the other half to a friend of hers. The friend's lease will be due up in December and I believe my girlfriend will be asking her to leave. (My girlfriend has allergy issues and so it takes a conscientious person to live with her and make sure the eating surfaces aren't contaminated; this friend doesn't quite fit the bill.)

Anyway, the conversation is inevitable and has actually already been broached: will I be the one moving in? My girlfriend would prefer this, as she's tired of having to deal with a roommate, getting sick as a result of contaminated eating surfaces, etc.

However, the big sticking point for me is the jump from 250/300 a month to 1150 a month. That is *quite* large. Could she move in with me? She could, but there are problems with her allergies/mold here and so she's not comfortable staying here for extended periods. It's also located outside of the city and away from social activities, the kind of which she needs to be happy.

Though I'd love being a 25-minute walk from work, the cost-benefit analysis just doesn't make any sense to me. The two hours on a train every day aren't great, but I just read a book or listen to a podcast and I'm (mostly) good. If I move in with her, that's around 900/month, or 10,800 a year that I won't be able to put into investments of some sort. When my after tax income is 50k (after a 401k match, too), that's quite a significant portion--20 percent. Another way to put it is this: I'd love to live in the city, but it doesn't seem worth it to me to increase my costs by 10k.

This has caused some problems for us. I recently stated that I'd "never move into the city so long as I had the super cheap option available to me." Her response: so we're just going to keep shuffling back and forth between our places for the rest of time? What sort of future is that? Admittedly the shuffling is a hassle, at about 40 minutes/trip. It's also exhausting at both a mental and physical level. I enjoy my alone time, quiet, etc., and so being at her place, with a roommate around, and without a space of my own, isn't ideal for me. I can't blame her in the least for wanting a different arrangement--or something she could at least look forward to in the somewhat near future. I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly that could look like, and so here I am.

I love her and could see us having a future together. I hate to think that my reluctance to give up cheap housing could bring about issues that eventually end our relationship. Admittedly, there are also concerns related to our spending habits: I'm "cheap" and believe in the MM principles (for the most part). I don't particularly enjoy my job and would love more than anything to be able to cut the cord as soon as possible. I also grew up with not a lot of money, and so it's difficult for me to enjoy spending money on almost anything. My parents are both late 60s--and they're both still working due to a lack of financial planning earlier on in their lives.

She has a different take on things. Her mom has always had money and so she's never really been bound by anything. For her, retirement could be an eventual inheritance, and she seems to enjoy her training and work much more than I do. Also, she suffered from depression for most of her childhood and had a rough go of it (and still does at times). Her mom provides a stipend of sorts--an advance inheritance--that help my girlfriend live a much different lifestyle than would otherwise be possible given her grad student status (she still "pays" rent though, for tax purposes). She's aware of this privilege and I by no means hold this against her in any manner; such is life. So as for the social activities: she really enjoys doing these sorts of things, and after a rather miserable childhood--and even young adulthood--it's her group of friends and these sorts of activities that give her the biggest boost and allow her to enjoy life. It can be hard for me to take part in some of these things at times due to the cost, but I want to support her and be there with her, which she for whatever reason enjoys. These social activities can also be an issue because I'm just naturally a homebody--borderline recluse--and no amount of money could change that.

Anyway, I'm asking for input from the community for how this could eventually play out. A couple things I've considered:

1) I bite the bullet and move in with her. It'd improve QOL, sure, but not as much as most people might think. It's a cool neighborhood in a cool city, but so long as a public library is around, who cares?

2) We keep living where we're at. She gets a new roommate and I stay in suburbia. If we can't make it work, maybe that's an indication that it's not a great fit anyway.

3) I somehow "buy in" to the apartment and get an ownership stake. I've admittedly done no research here and so I'm not sure what this would look like. I also don't know if her mom, who sure, she likes me, but maybe not *that* much, would be willing to do something like this.

4) We establish a timeline to pursue (1) and/or (3) above--perhaps next year at this same time.

5) There's also the possibility that I could buy a condo myself--perhaps in a another year or two--but real estate is really expensive in this city and I don't know if I'd want to go that route. Maybe we could even pool our resources and go in on something together--or perhaps me with her mom on a different place--and that's how we eventually live together.

Anyway, any input would be great appreciated. I apologize for the mess that is the word vomit above, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around everything. I'd hate to do anything that extends my working life, but I'd also hate to see this relationship end because I'm not willing to make a financial sacrifice. I have no idea if I'm weighing things properly. I can envision responses anywhere from "You can't be with someone who doesn't respect the FIRE lifestyle! Moving in would be so stupid!" to "How dare you be so wrapped up in your FIRE lifestyle that you're not taking a shot at life with a woman you care about deeply!"

Happy to clarify if there's anything that's missing. Thanks in advance for any advice.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2018, 01:55:16 PM »
So, first off,  you don't date academics because they are practical.  Not saying that is a deal breaker but it will never change.

Why can't she move in with you to help with this burden of care-taking?

george78

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2018, 02:12:54 PM »
I probably shouldn't have used "caretaker." I basically live in the house for free in return for making sure nothing major happens, e.g., pipes burst, furnace explodes, animals take up residence, etc. The person who owns it, a family friend, moved away years ago and doesn't seem too worried about selling the place and also doesn't want to bother with officially renting it or anything. (He's got other things on his mind and is in a different social class.)

It's an old house that sat vacant for a few years before I moved in. I suspect there are some mold issues, and she's quite certain there are, given her allergic reactions when she stays over. Also, it's far from the city and in the heart of suburbia, away from the sorts of things she likes doing (playing sports, meeting up with friends, going to concerts, etc.).

onlykelsey

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 02:16:23 PM »
Would you move in if it were free??  Could you keep the housesitting gig by going up once a week?

ysette9

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 02:18:27 PM »
Is recommend that you don’t rush into anything and find a way to continue living as each of you are now. Each situation works best for both of you as-is and you aren’t nagged or getting married in the near future. I think there are legitimate concerns and reasons for maintaining the status quo. I think it is important to give you each time and space to see where this relationship is headed. My gut tells me that if she were absolutely the right person for you and you for her, these issues would feel more surmontable and one or the other of you would be more willing to sacrifice. I’m not saying your relationship is doomed, but perhaps you just haven’t been together long enough her to reach that conclusion.

ixtap

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 02:24:10 PM »
How much are you currently paying for transportation? You don't seem to be working that into your calculations.

Is she sharing a room or an apartment/flat/condo? You actually say both. If an apartment, there is no reason your presence means the other room can't still be rented. The change in finances might indeed give leeway to find a better roommate. By renting out the larger bedroom and reserving half of all the kitchen space, we found someone willing to pay half the rent and utilities, even though there are three of us in the apartment.

Food prep surfaces can be reserved by using flexible cutting boards. Each roommate gets their own color and they are stored separately.

Beyond finances, it sounds like your girlfriend would like you to move in and your are not thrilled with the idea. ie "I would love to live in the city," vs "I would really like to live with her."

PoutineLover

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 02:28:42 PM »
Are there options other than your two current living spaces? Could you find a shared apartment for say, 1000-1500 a month to split, so that you are closer to the fun activities and work, but not triple your current costs? Is it possible to fix the mold problem and have a transportation budget that allows for regular travel into the city, so she can move in with you but still socialize? Would it be a problem for the current owner of your place if you decide to leave, and would that factor into your decision?
Just some thoughts, because it's hard to say for sure what you should do. You're weighing the value of taking a step in your relationship and giving yourself an easier commute and choosing the living option that makes your girlfriend happy, vs being able to save a lot more money for retirement but potentially ending or stalling a relationship with someone you love.
I recently moved in with my partner and we had to choose between finding a new apartment vs living in his place at very cheap rent but pretty small and next door to family. We had a lot of long discussions about what our goals were, both individual and shared, what our budgets were, and how we envisioned this going long term. We came to an agreement that made us both happy, but we had to figure out what we each wanted to be able to get there, so I suggest talking at length about the options and their implications, and your goals and priorities, to come to a good agreement.

frugalfoothills

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 03:15:11 PM »
It sounds to me like you aren't ready to make the move for a few reasons.
  • You're currently in a very financially advantageous situation, and this situation also works for your lifestyle
  • You're not sure whether you're ready to give up your freedom and space to combine lives in a smaller, shared space
  • You're not totally convinced she's The One anyway, based on some of the difference in your values

I think all of that is totally reasonable. You've only been dating for a year, I've had a jar of pickles in my fridge for longer than that! (I should probably throw that out.) I don't blame you for not being ready to make this move.

I would just let your girlfriend know that you're not quite ready to move in together and offer to help her hunt for a new roommate when the other one moves out in December. There's a lot of room between moving in together in 4 months and "shuffling back and forth between your places for the rest of time." Help her find a new roommate, enjoy dating for another year or two, take advantage of your situation as long as possible and feel out where the relationship is headed. You might find that the decision is much easier to make with a little more time passing.

EricL

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 04:09:10 PM »
Maybe get a trailer or a tiny house and put it in the back yard for her? 

Fig

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 04:13:19 PM »
I can understand why you're wary of a large increase in rent but - even for mustachianism - renting a cheap but mouldy place may eventually cost you in health what it saves you in money.

marble_faun

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 05:39:59 PM »
I may be way off-base here, but your girlfriend may be trying to figure out if your relationship is on the long-term/marriage track or not. 

In my own friends group, there was a wave of marriages between ages 28-32 or thereabouts, as biological clocks started ticking and more people figured they were ready to settle down and have kids.  And you are both right in that age bracket.

You told her you would "never" move in while you had the cheap place. If she is looking for more commitment, that remark would be pretty disappointing.  By asking if you are going to continue the situation as it is "for the rest of time," she can gather more clues about your mindset.  (Forgive for the pop psychology, by the way -- I could be wrong about it all.)

Now... it sounds like you are pretty serious about her, but you are hesitant to move in for perfectly valid reasons.  And you haven't been together all that long yet.

My main suggestion would be to give her some sort of timeline. Offer assurance that you are serious and committed to her.  You are open to moving in together and will seriously consider it.  You just need another year (or something like that).  Also, it's not just about money, you don't want to rush things due to external circumstances.

Then, if you DO decide you want to be with her in the long term, you should just go for it.  It's not worth saving a few thousand extra dollars to stay in the cheap place. Maybe sort out some cheaper shared housing arrangement as a compromise.  But don't give up on love and the stuff of life itself just to grow your stache! 

sparkytheop

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 06:32:20 PM »

3) I somehow "buy in" to the apartment and get an ownership stake. I've admittedly done no research here and so I'm not sure what this would look like. I also don't know if her mom, who sure, she likes me, but maybe not *that* much, would be willing to do something like this.


I'm coming from a different place (39, divorced young and single pretty much since then) so take that as you will.

No way in hell would I let someone I was dating "buy in" to my house.  I own it, I want to retain the right to kick them out if things go bad, and not deal with them now having "ownership" of something I had long before they came around.

Doing that for someone my kid was dating?  Even less of a chance.

I don't know if I'll ever remarry, but anything short of that and no one is getting their name on my property, unless it is something we buy together from the beginning.

I don't know them, but think long and hard before you "suggest" this.  Just my opinion.

BicycleB

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2018, 06:35:53 PM »
I agree with @marble_faun, it's very likely that "I would never..." probably suggests to her that you value $10k more than her. In fact, you are pondering that but are open to valuing her MUCH more. At minimum, discuss more with her, including remarks like "I want to explore forever with you" or "I want to explore a long term future with you" or anything that explains you are at least considering a permanent partnership.

That said, as described by you, she has a mixture of spendiness and entitlement that sounds relatively inflexible. Is she looking for a person who fills her needs, and their job is to meet her various criteria and fit into her plan? Would you be junior to this plan? Is that a viable life map for you, emotionally and practically? Is the seeming demanding-ness a test to verify commitment before returning care and concessions, or a habit, or a mere warmup to the later wife-centered life?

As far as the money goes, if I were serious about a relationship turning into marriage, and the $10k made sense to spend, a 20% slowdown in time to FIRE would be worth it to me. Along that line, I would still consider exploring the suggestions upthread, such as maintaining the cheap house while living in the city, or putting a clean trailer onsite. Perhaps you'd get a day of privacy by visiting the place once a week, and the $200 cost would disappear if the owner knew you were renting elsewhere and just visiting to superintend? So then you could get city living for 8k instead of 10k, after perhaps 2k in travel savings? Or less cost difference, using the 2 roommate model?

Overall, I'd feel that there are 2 separate tracks to pursue: the relationship track and the financial one. I'd start with the relationship piece, then finish out the financial details after communicating more fully about the relationship side. I'd use the financial details as a followup test/ joint experience in light of the deeper values-and-relationship discussion.

Just one person's thoughts.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 06:41:11 PM by BicycleB »

Freedomin5

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 06:49:15 PM »
That said, as described by you, she has a mixture of spendiness and entitlement that sounds relatively inflexible. Is she looking for a person who fills her needs, and their job is to meet her various criteria and fit into her plan? Would you be junior to this plan? Is that a viable life map for you, emotionally and practically? Is the seeming demanding-ness a test to verify commitment before returning care and concessions, or a habit, or a mere warmup to the later wife-centered life?

This. You’re thinking of her best interests, but has she returned the favor? Has she been willing to curb her spending or select cheaper activities that you could also participate in, because she cares about you and enjoys spending time with you? Or has she, by your own words, made you feel uncomfortable about participating in activities because of cost?

A relationship has a high likelihood of failing if only one person does the giving and the other person does the taking in “give and take”.

Also, her current approach/reaction to your current difference in opinion is a taste of her approach to future conflicts. Can you accept that about her and live with that for the rest of your life, if she never changes? We don’t go into long term relationships expecting people to change.

It’s not just about the $10K. The more concerning issues are her need to spend to be happy, her receiving economic support from her mom, her living beyond her means and being used to a quality of life that is beyond her earnings. Guess what? If you guys do end up married, very likely, you will be the one (rather than mom) funding her lifestyle.

tralfamadorian

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2018, 07:29:13 PM »
I may be way off-base here, but your girlfriend may be trying to figure out if your relationship is on the long-term/marriage track or not. 

+1. If she's 29 now and wants children, this is probably on her mind.

red_pill

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 09:45:38 PM »
From the way you write I don't think you actually see a long term future with her but it's more convenient to not admit that yourself.  So you're focusing on the money.   Dude, it's not about the money.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2018, 02:12:03 AM »
Some thoughts:

If you move in with her, you will save your commuting cost. Calculate those in. If you would break up with her later, would you then be able to get an equally good house deal for yourself?

A relationship is a matter of making compromises. Both should give and take a bit. You cannot expect to maintain your own financially optimized lifestyle for a single man and expect any women to embrace that, especially if that women is not converted to a frugal lifestyle yet. At least, keep your finances separated, also if you start living together. Just pay your part of the rent and utilities. Keeping separate finances is very normal for couples with a very different savings-strategy and can even be maintained through marriage.

Are you interested in having a long-term relationship and having children? Children are quite costly. Do they fit into your plan? If you don't want to have children, then be up front with your girlfriend about it and give her the choice to look for someone else. So yes, have a talk about the future. Where do you both expect to be in life in 5 years? Will you be married with children? Or will you be travelling the world as 2 adults?

In case you don't move out of your house: Does the house you live in really have mould in the cellar? That is very unhealthy to live in. If I remember right, it could cause lung cancer. Investigate if it is there and at the very least, install a permanent ventilator there. Of better, get some expert advice on what to do with it.

Will your GF be able to take care of herself if the bank of mum ever stop?

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 02:43:50 AM »
I would only add:

1. Don't move in with a beloved only because you feel pressured by them to (to move in, to live together, to hurry a timeline along, to make a decision sooner than you are ready to). If that's happening, that's a big deal already. In that case, stay put.

2. Since neither home is a good fit for the other, both of you stay put until you naturally find the option that fits beautifully for both of you. There's plenty of time.

sea_saw

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2018, 08:54:16 AM »
I can't quite tell from your post if it's just the money that's putting you off, or if you actually don't want to live in the city at all. If you just don't want to move regardless of the finances, that's a simple enough answer to give.

But, if you don't enjoy spending time at your girlfriend's place while she has a housemate, and she doesn't enjoy spending time at your place because its physical condition is bad for her health, and neither of you likes trekking back and forth between them, I wouldn't see the status quo as a long term solution. A year is about the right length of time to start thinking through possible options.

Since the rent your girlfriend is paying her mum is basically some financial jiggery pokery (since her mum is paying her a 'stipend' which I gather covers the rent and more), would your girlfriend be open to you moving in for any less money? Let's say something like $600. Would that make it any more appealing to you?

The difference could come out of her stipend. Or if the area is so desirable, maybe the spare room could be airbnbed occasionally to make up the difference?

You could give it a go while still keeping up your friend's property to fall back on, until such a point as you either move back to it or decide you no longer need/want it. If you and your girlfriend did decide you wanted to live together more permanently, you would then need to think about what to do: how to divide the rent for her current place more fairly, or whether to get a new place together, etc etc.

(Alternatively, same plan but you suck up the full rent for however long it takes you to decide).

You don't have to commit to anything now, just start some conversations and I reckon by December you'll know what you want to do, one way or another.

havregryn

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2018, 09:41:07 AM »
Both you and your girlfriend have housing situations that are not average or typical in any way. You seem to speak of your girlfriend as entitled because she grew up with money, but you are living in a house for free that was given to you by your rich friend.

Thing is, to me, your deals don't sound that good at all. Mold and a 2 hour commute to save some money is probably approaching the fine line between MMMM and Scrooge McDuck.
But also I don't get the whole "she pays rent for tax purposes" thing, if it then leads to the fact she can't actually afford this without inconveniencing the hell out of herself by living with a roommate that is a health hazard? Where does that rent stand in terms of the market, is it low to begin with or is it what you would pay for a similar place even if it weren't owned by your mom?
So, while your deal sounds bad because of what you get for no money, her deal sounds like she's not really getting anything except the knowledge that eventually she will inherit the place, which would presumably still apply even if she lived somewhere else.
So maybe the healthiest thing for you two to do would be to get out of these arrangements and jointly pursue something that works for both of you? The mother can surely get a similar cashflow from just giving her whatever she is giving her and renting the place out to someone else.

MustacheAnxiety

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2018, 05:40:22 PM »
Lots of people have mentioned it already but it bears repeating: DO YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND?  Also does she really want to live with you or does she want to kick her roommate out and not find a new one?

There has been a lot of speculation that she is somehow testing your commitment but she may just see you as the easier option over finding a new roommate who may also be too dirty and bad for her health.  Have a frank money aside conversation about whether living together right now is right for the relationship.

I get the feeling you both have some reservations about making the necessary compromises to live together that would justify putting it off one more year. But this could be my personal bias (one year seems a bit too soon to make clear headed choices about the other person with a bunch of new relationship energy still hanging around.

If you do want to live together at the end of the lease you have a bunch of stuff to figure out in relatively short order:
Have you made any attempts at mold remediation at your current place (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Concrobium-1-gal-Mold-Control-Jug-025001/100654369?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-100654126-_-100654369-_-N)?  If part of your cheap rent is keeping the place up it seems like this would be part of the deal no matter what.  And it would make the house a reasonable place for your girlfriend.  Have you tried a better furnace filter or an air filter/allergend remover that you could run in your bedroom when she stays over? Is your buddy cool with your girlfriend living there? What happens if he wants to sell? 

What would happen to the girlfriend's mom's place if she moved in with you? Does it get sold?  rented out to two other people?

What are rents like in your area? Is $1100 a bargain that you may lose forever if you two don't live there?  Is it in line with what you would pay for something similar? Is there pressure on her to stay there?

Do you want to be in this area long term? if not buying a condo doesn't seem sensible.

Can you compromise on a less nice/big place in the city for cheaper?





mamabear18

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 08:59:41 PM »
My two cents - I get your frugal ways and understand where you are coming from.  It sounds to me like you both have different perspectives on money and this could be an ongoing issue in the long term.  Just an opinion - not knowing much about both of you - but I think you would be happier with someone who shared your money values. Good luck and keep us posted.

FIFoFum

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 09:14:32 PM »
Lots of people have mentioned it already but it bears repeating: DO YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND?  Also does she really want to live with you or does she want to kick her roommate out and not find a new one?

THIS.

Do you want to live with her? It's not much of a cost-benefit analysis if you are placing 0 (or negative) value on actually living with your gf.

If the answer is "Not right now," the follow-up is "Do you foresee that you will ever want to live with your gf, esp if it means living somewhere different from where you live now - even if you have to pay more in housing costs?" (And not in a "yeah, maybe in a few years" kind of way but within a realistic timeframe).


former player

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2018, 06:02:12 AM »
OP, I think you need to consider a couple of things about yourself first.


1.  When you come to the end of your life, would you rather have saved your money along current lines and not had a permanent partnership/marriage and/or children, or saved less and had a family life?  Because your current saving habits and living conditions might find you another life partner but at some point (probably not immediately) they are going to have to change if you stay with your current partner.

2.  You are an introvert who likes to read.  When you settle down with a life partner, is it going to be with another introvert who likes to read, or are you going to be able to make a compatible life with an extrovert like your current girlfriend - either by your becoming more extrovert, or by you both being long-term happy with you being the stay at home partner and her being more social without you?


Once you've had a good think about those two (and discussed them with your girlfriend - if you can't discuss these things with her she is not yet the life partner for you), then you need to apply your conclusions to your and your girlfriend's current situation.


And for the love of gods, please do a bit of investigating to find out whether your current accommodation does have a mold problem, get some quotes for remedying it, and talk to the owner about what to do.  By suspecting mold and doing nothing about it you are falling down on your obligations as caretaker.

LadyMaWhiskers

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 06:20:51 AM »
DO NOT MAKE THIS DECISION BASED ON MONEY!

Also, it’s not that much money, and you have plenty of money. Well done on that front, by the way.

See point one. Seriously. Only live with a SO if it seems like the right thing for your relationship.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2018, 07:07:59 AM »
Dude, it's not about the money.

+1

Let me give you an illustrative example:

I met my husband online. I lived in Canada, he lived in the States. We visited each other 3 times (1-2 weeks at a time) and then had a conversation in which we had decide if we were serious about pursuing this relationship. At about 3 months in, we decided to get married. I dropped out of university, ditched a full ride scholarship, lost a living allowance, got rid of all of my belongings, and left an entire country behind.

Money came into the picture only in the sense of: How can we afford to be together?

You two, on the other hand, have discussed no real compromise or plan. What could be done about the mold/allergens in your house and what would it cost? What other apartment options are available for a cheaper price?

And it's not just you. Your girlfriend is equally reluctant. She's fine with it, as long as you move into her specific apartment so that she doesn't have to move anywhere inconvenient, inconvenience her mom, deal with inconvenient roommates, move out of her desired location.

In other words, she's fine with moving in with you, as long as she's not inconvenienced in any way. You're fine with moving in with her as long as it doesn't cost you any dollar bills.

It seems like this conversation came up because it's a convenient time for it to come up, not because either one of you are particularly eager about it.

george78

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2018, 09:44:51 AM »
My dear god you guys are good. Every single reply contained a nugget of information--or, in many cases, many nuggets--that I've been thinking about over the past week or so. Discussions with my girlfriend have been happening over this same time, and everything I've learned or been forced to think about resulting from your posts has allowed us to have more meaningful conversations--primarily because I can finally get my thinking at least somewhat straight on this. I'll add details below, but if you want the short version: the current plan is to wait until the spring, when we'll both have to reassess where we're at relationship-wise and, if things continue to go well, we'll figure out a cohabitation plan of some sort. Part of the reason for this is that her roommate may be moving in with *her* boyfriend at that time, and so the approximately eight-month period is somewhat of a negotiation between the *this* fall/winter move-in and then her potentially having to get another roommate to sign a lease (or moving out to find a place by herself). I'm okay with this and in fact feel quite comfortable with everything. The most likely situation is that I move in to her apartment at that time. As someone noted, the rate we'd be charged for her apartment is a few hundred dollars below market value, and so we'd be very hard-pressed to find a better deal. And though a one-bedroom would be cheaper, the thought of not having any space available to myself (i.e., a second bedroom/office) makes the higher, albeit discounted cost worth it for me.

Anyway, some additional thoughts and reasoning below. Apologies if I'm out of sequence or something doesn't make sense.

The mold situation is something that's just come up recently, and I was only made aware of it because of some of my girlfriend's reactions to staying in the place. (She's also really sensitive to things, so bear that in mind, not that it really changes anything.) It's not as though there's mold growing on my bedroom walls, but the air quality in the place may be... not good? Maybe it's in the vents? In the musty basement? About a month ago, I had surface testing done that seemed to indicate nothing was too out of the ordinary, though I'm skeptical of the testing process (and results). I recently purchased a couple of air cleaners that are now spread throughout the house, as well as a dehumidifier that needs emptied every four hours or so. But, I know that these measures aren't enough, and as you can probably tell from my initially dismissive language, I don't know a lot about what should be done. I got in touch with a company about a month ago to come test the air quality, inspect the house, etc. but have since dropped the ball on that. As many of you have noted, I need to take this more seriously than I have up until this point. It's stupid and lazy of me to not have been more proactive here. So: all of the "you need to do something" messages are much appreciated.

There's a chance I may have overstated my penchant for reclusiveness. To be clear, I would much prefer living in the city--closer to work, around young people (my current neighborhood is full of retirees), social sports, etc. Perhaps part of my reluctance to "do things" has resulted from the hassle that it's always been to do them. Knowing that I still have an hour-long commute after a happy hour or soccer game has always been a buzzkill for me. Ceteris paribus, I'll still prefer a night in to a night out and don't plan on changing my lifestyle if I do move into the city, but having an easier go of things when it comes to social activities means that maybe they won't seem as bad (fortunately, many free activities are offered in the city, and I'm not much of a drinker). As someone pointed out in words that really resonated with me (seriously), I've always wondered if my living situation is something more along the lines of "Scrooge McDuck" instead of a healthy Mustache-influenced lifestyle. In fact, there have been quite a few times over the past few years where I considered posting something on these forums along the lines of, "Am I being *too* Mustachian (or stupid) to the point of not 'living my life'?" Sometimes I have a hard time seeing gray areas and view things only in black and white (e.g., if I'm spending money, I'm not saving it--my equations don't always include enjoyment, meaningfulness of the experience, etc.). Dating was always a particular struggle--who wants to travel an hour to hang out with someone in suburbia? And who could be so great that I'd want to travel to hang out with them? So yeah, it's kind of ironic that I now (almost!) let the strange hold of the housesitting situation throw a wrench into a relationship that's somehow developed in spite of it and has become a huge part of my life.

A few other things:

Transportation-wise, my commute is subsidized by my employer. I end up paying about $50 a month to park at the train station (a bus would take an additional half-hour, sadly). Otherwise, I use my car to go to the gym, library, market, and my girlfriend's place on the weekends. By moving into the city, I'd significantly reduce the need for my car to make these daily/weekly trips (outside of a Costco trip from time to time, I wouldn't need it). I'd have to think about it some more to fully crunch the numbers and figure out savings, but it'd certainly be something.

As someone noted re: entitlement, I know that my girlfriend is not the only fortunate person in this story. The rich friend letting me live in his house has undoubtedly been a huge game-changer for me in terms of finances and has allowed me to save far more than I ever could have otherwise. That's not at all lost on me, so I'm hesitant to say I'm "entitled," for that suggests a feeling of deserving things that you don't. In my case, I think I may be hyper-aware and end up being something like the reverse--in other words, I know I don't deserve the cheap rent and higher savings rate that's resulted, and so I'm very reluctant to, I don't know... kick a gift horse in the mouth...? So yes, for different reasons, we're both very fortunate in terms of finances, something that's not lost on either of us. Somewhat related here, for me, there's also the component that I mention above--that my present living situation is not necessarily ideal for me. I'm receiving the cheaper rent, sure, but I'm also making a sacrifice to do so. I'm not sure any of this was worth adding but I typed it out and so I'll leave it in. Ha.

As for the relationship itself, I know there will be compromises to be made moving forward when it comes to finances. One good thing about the relationship, despite what me posting on this forum may suggest, is that our communication has always been really good. She's well aware that saving is important to me and that I prefer staying in. While some couples feel the need to do everything together, I believe we're both better-suited to have a balance that includes more solo (or, in her case, with her friends) activities. By the nature of what I like to do--read, write, etc.--someone who's okay with this sort of balance will be necessary in whoever I end up with. Might it be easier if she were to have a personality and interests more similar to my own? Maybe. Probably? But I guess there also might be something said for me not finding another pseudo recluse and us then suffocating one another. "Go do your thing, I'll be waiting when you get back." Maybe I'm being naive here. Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into something. Maybe. I'm sure to many this may sound like an intended path fraught with peril, but to me it's part of what will be necessary in any successful relationship I end up being in. Does that make sense? Sometimes I'm not sure that it does, which--bear with me here--might be a good thing when it comes to thinking about this relationship. As someone who's risk averse and likes to think he's logic-driven, that it "feels right" to me to try to make this work, despite the potential issues, is a good thing. (I of course may just be bullshitting myself, but I guess time will tell on that.)

The "buying in" to the apartment was a dumb idea. Don't really know where that came from. And the trailer idea wouldn't work for a number of reasons, though I thought that was a good one. There were quite a few other things mentioned that I didn't touch on here, but please do know that I read every post--a couple times, in fact--and really tried to digest everything before coming up with what I hope is the best solution for the current situation.

Again, I can't thank you all enough for your replies and thoughtfulness. Over the past few years, the internet seems to have become merely the place I go to "get mad on purpose," by way of social media, reading the news, etc. So to have feelings resulting from this forum experience be just about the complete opposite of that--gratefulness and hope in my fellow man!--has been awesome, regardless of how things shake out with this. Free advice from really smart people with good intentions. Awesome stuff. MMM Forums 2020.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2018, 09:50:22 AM »
:)))))))))

While this forum certainly has its shenanigans, it can be an amazing source of support and excellent assistance.

And thank you for the update. All sounds great!

Pootie22

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2018, 10:44:19 AM »
I'm assuming the house you currently live in has multiple bedrooms. Why not let her have her own room/s in the house that are as "sanitary" or mold free as she requires.

If moving in with her means spending $10k more EVERY year and you don't even have your own apartment, surely you can "remodel" or remedy any issues with the house for less than $10k right? Obviously you would need the owners permission, I can't see why the owner would not want a free remodel, they might even help!

wordnerd

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2018, 10:53:30 AM »
" While some couples feel the need to do everything together, I believe we're both better-suited to have a balance that includes more solo (or, in her case, with her friends) activities. By the nature of what I like to do--read, write, etc.--someone who's okay with this sort of balance will be necessary in whoever I end up with. Might it be easier if she were to have a personality and interests more similar to my own? Maybe. Probably? But I guess there also might be something said for me not finding another pseudo recluse and us then suffocating one another. "Go do your thing, I'll be waiting when you get back." Maybe I'm being naive here. Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into something. Maybe. I'm sure to many this may sound like an intended path fraught with peril, but to me it's part of what will be necessary in any successful relationship I end up being in. Does that make sense? Sometimes I'm not sure that it does, which--bear with me here--might be a good thing when it comes to thinking about this relationship. As someone who's risk averse and likes to think he's logic-driven, that it "feels right" to me to try to make this work, despite the potential issues, is a good thing. (I of course may just be bullshitting myself, but I guess time will tell on that.)"

This balance works really well for my husband and I. People think it's odd, but it works.

marble_faun

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2018, 11:27:37 AM »
Sounds like you engaged in some reflection and have a solid plan!  Good for you!

About the different social styles: my husband and I are also like this. We've been together 15+ years and still love hanging out together every day, but we don't have to mirror each other's every move.  He doesn't try to force me to attend all the social events, and I don't feel resentful when he goes without me. It's possible to strike a good balance!

former player

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2018, 12:51:05 PM »

….

That's an A+ answer.   I'd wish you luck, but I think you'll do fine without it.

BicycleB

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2018, 01:25:47 PM »
Nice update, George78! Let us know how it goes...

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2018, 03:56:33 PM »
Good luck with how the future pans out. Ultimately I hope everyone ends up happy.

My concern from reading this is the GF spending more than she should. I'd worry that things would fall apart with someone like that if the firehose of cash gifts stopped flowing. But, you have half a year to figure things out and be deliberate with your decision making.

Regarding the dehumidifier...that sounds like a huge moisture issue if the thing has to be emptied every 4 hours! Get that situation checked out!

Unhoard

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2018, 12:31:08 PM »
This isn't intended to steer you away from the much deeper contemplation you've posted, but I know a bit about mold (I briefly was in the testing business) so I'll speak to that.  Yes, if they have a good reputation, call the mold inspection company back and book them to come out because surface tests are not giving you the info you need.  Think of this as your duty as a caretaker so it sits outside all of this other stuff. 

Here's what I came up with before typing the above: I'm also thinking a solution could be done at the house.  Maybe her mentality about staying in the city would change if there wasn't this health issue to contend with at the house.  I think you can DIY many mold issues, even with professional assistance for well under $10K.  I was going to say $3K as a budget cap.  Without going into remediation here, finding the source if there is one could go a long way to solving it.  Here are some mold culprits which you may already be aware of:

- if it isn't a "toxic" strain of mold, her reaction can be to the amount of mold which could be in the attic or below/basement in the form of lumber mold.  In other words, lumber mold as a species isn't thought to trigger major health problems but if there is a massive amount of it drying and spawning into the air, some will be sensitive to it.

- sprinklers/water sources hitting the side of the house that are supposed to be watering plants, or any wicking of water where a barrier should exist around the house. 

- carpets.  If the owner is okay with you replacing wall to wall carpeting, get rid of it and replace with hard flooring and area rugs. 

- lack of ventilation.  open all windows and door regularly, assuming she isn't allergic to pollens outside the house.  If bathrooms don't have vent fans, can you add those?  Maybe heat lamps as well, to dry out bathrooms after showers. 

- obviously, pipes that may be leaking behind walls.  The team you are planning to use should do a moisture meter check below all faucets and drains where accessible.  You can also get your own moisture meter for $15 and up - I wouldn't spend more than $45.   It should have metal two metal spikes to test wood and walls.

- any holes in walls including outlets can ventilate mold that is trapped in wall cavities each time you open or close doors.  Foam insulation can be added around the gang boxes. 

This is a lot to invest if the mold sensitivity may be more like a component/symptom of her not wanting to live out there, but it seems like you're agreeing it's moldy so, as I said, this is a caretaker thing to deal with anyway.  If it turns into a bigger project like redoing the floors, would the owner pay for that? 

The test should be done with a comparison between indoor air after the house has been closed up for a few four hours, and the natural outside air.  It should not be done during or immediately after rain as that can skew results.  You only need one ambient outdoor test and you can do one, two or three inside.  I'd probably do one in the basement and one on a stair landing with all the doors open unless you have a strong suspicion about a specific room.  They should provide a lab report that will identify the spores both by volume comparison and by type and some explanation as to what that all means.  And, plan to retest at least one inside vs. outside if you do some remediation.

I appreciate how much thought you're putting into this.  After getting into a situation where I'm able to avoid hours of traffic to which most people in my city subject themselves, I can say it makes a big difference.  Is her living situation such that you can experiment with that?  Stay over for a few days or a week? 

frugalone

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Re: Case study: Help me figure out my relationship with my girlfriend
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2018, 12:54:53 PM »
Here is my take on it:

1. You have different values than her. (Money wise)
2. You seem like me and are an introvert (love alone time) that's not going to change.
3. You want to make this work but really can see it's not going to in the long term.

Let it ride and stay where you are.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!